The correct and proper solution is for the Government to move agresively against those businesses and employers who take advantage of the illegals and keep the "low wage" job market saturated with them.
The unemployment rate for the DR is among the highest in Latin America and the Caribbean. This unemployment rate must be lowered to the benefit of those Dominican Citizens who would be glad to work for a higher wage scale than presently being offered by these employers whose only incentive is to further their agenda of increasing their "bottom line".
By the coupling a reasonable profit margin with livable wages their agenda can easily be reached.
The continuation of existing philosophy can be mitigated by increasing pressure from Government to decrease the high unemployment rate presently being experienced.
By the imposing heavy fines, these businesses can be shown to "see the light" and negate their greed for the betterment of society as a whole.

TB

If they are illegal send them back.

TexasBill, that sounds like a great plan but we have to be realistic with ourselves here. Will it be to the business sectors favor to oblige by what you've mentioned above when they aren't garuanteed the same work ethics as the haitians that work in these sectors that would not be a smart business venture. I think the DR's government need to lower the price of the visa so that haitians that are illegal in the DR can legalise their status. Do you know how much a working visa cost matter a fact a tourist visa for a haitian national? Deporting these hard working people will only harm the DR's economy and in the long slow the progess of the country. Amnesty maybe the solution for these people that want to work rather ranting "la vida e' dura" but will spend their remesas at the nearest colmado and others have their mind set on taking a yola to get to PR and final destination Nueva Yol.

At the end both parites will realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side but would not dare go back home because they have to support the loved ones back home and try to get on with life the best way the can. I also think the haitian government needs to have campaigns warning haitians their vulnerability if they cross the border without proper papers.

This situation simply creates an unsafe environment for both the vendor and motorist. These vendors should be removed from the street and prosecute those businesses that exploy them. If they are in the DR illegally and are working illegally, taking jobs aways from Dominicans, then the government is responsible for correcting the matter. However, do Dominicans want this line of work? I do not think so, therefore, reform them and organize them into guilds and try to give them papers so they can continue fueling the micro economy. This articles reminds me of Washington Heights streets where you find multitude of Dominicans selling pastelitos, abichuela condulce, maiz caqueao, tortas the maiz, and many others food and accessories. ny4life, your kneejerk reaction is unreasonable and irresponsible. How would you like "Gringos" having the same kneejerk reaction to all those Dominicans selling the same things in NYC streets, as they also mainly illegals. I would liek those, cont..

Dominicans to be organized into guilds and given the opportunity to become productive citizens of this great country. These people serve a segment of our economy, just like these hatians are serving a segment of the Dominican economy. We must exercise reasoning before jumping into conclusion, because at times we get what we wish for and the consequences are worst than the solution.

We are tired of raising somebody elses children! When the Haitian women give birth in DR or bring their children to DR, the DR society pays the burden of feeding and educating the beggers! This is part of the displacement that these illegals are causing in DR. Haitian women think their children or embryo have a better future in DR! At the end, DR will end up a satellite of Haiti as all these haitians are gaining in numbers and their political power is inevitably coming! Either we purge DR of haitians or the concept of DR will only exist in the Diaspora!

Greenwave, I clearly understand your point and see your plight. However, I am in the 35% tax bracket here in the U.S. and pay a heck of alot taxes yearly. Much of those taxes goes to public services, such as supporting the many illegals that come here from many differnt part of the world. They bring alone with them their born children as well as the unborn in their wooms. Please look at our own situation in the U.S., specially NYC where I live, the burden that Dominicans as the fastest and largest immigrant group in the city is putting in our schools, social services, hospitals and child care. I give you an example, washington heights has free head start program for all children, the head start program is designed to bring children at the age of 3 into the academic environment to give them a head start in comparison to the others that might not have it, but are capable of payinf or it. In the community that I live, the free head start program is not offered in public schools, co.

as it offered in Washington Heights. Therefore, my school bill for my 3 year daughter next year will 11k, for head start, while I pay triple the taxes than the majority of Dominicans living in the heights, but do not get the benefits they receive whether they are legal or illegal, immigration status is isrrelevant in order for to get education and medical healp in the U.S. I am not crying out loud, get these people out here, they are drying up my money and are taking advantage of the system. Neither, I ever think that NYC is one day going to be called or though of as a Diaspora, just because it is inevitable for Dominicans to become larger group and compete with whites in another 20 years in terms of numbers. I am Dominican and I pay a price due to my own people, and I do not complaint nor I criticize others for doing what my people is doing to me here. You guys in DR need education and at times your naroow vision simply embaras some of us here in U.S. Please read, cont..

and educate yourself, so people do not have a laught at your expense. Think if an american hears talking that way, and they turn and tell you, but you guys do the same thing to us, why don,t you denounce your people also. You never want to find yourself at the receiving end of that exchange.

dagtan, I agree with you. I knew a few Dominicans at IOWA in the midwest collecting food stamps, and they didn't need it anyways, but these people always wants more & free.
Like our saying, " Old Dogs doesn't learn new tricks", and after all we dislike rats, uhm.

Mr. Dagtag, I was following you, until u decided to go on ur tirade, can you please annotate; on how ur location, within the US tax brackets, has anything to do with the article above. The positions of the Haitians in the DR, and Dominicans in the US are incomparable by nearly all standards(% of illegal’s to Gen. pop., education, wealth, the economy, services, unemployment rate, transparency, justice system, populations respect for the law, tax system, income per-capita, history of the receiving nation, just to name a few). So why, even bring it up? Mr. Dagtag, with all due respect, u shouldn’t denigrate, the educational qualifications of another person when you make so many simple spelling errors.

Tb, as usual ,I agree with ur statements.

Mr. Jabao, I would agree with you a 100%; if there were 250,000 Haitians in the DR, and not 1.1 mill. The rigidities of Dominican Labor laws are not conducive to employers interests, employers; bypass them all together, by hiring Haitian Labor ,who they exploit out of convenience, without a care in the world . Mr. Jabao, lets not get it twisted; some of these employers are not just “getting by” they are getting incredible returns on their investments(talking millions). When you consider; they( Dominican employers) don’t pay severance, health insurance, Christmas Bonus, or maintain a safe work environment; their profits can almost seem criminal. In closing, the governments(Dominican and American) need to really step up, and turn up the heat every company that employs illegal labor both in the DR and US.

Mr. FranktheTank,

I am appalled that you don't see the similarities between haitians in the DR with dominicans in the US/PR. As usual Mr Dagtag flips the coin on the other side so all can see the hypocrisy that many dominicans (living outside of the DR due to lack of opportunity just like haitians). The audacity of dominicans in the exterior demanding haitians (and extremist could careless if of those that are legal) should be deported. Yes, the mainland US has more resources for illegal dominicans to use and DR is struggling. Well, what about PR where ilegal dominicans have flooded the island and sucking on the public assistance(welfare). Just about every brown puerto rican is really a dominican or descendent. Throwing this out there for the xenophobic people that feel haitians are africanizing DR while the DR is africanizing PR. I saw someone exposing a huge dominican flag showing their pride. Can a haitian citizen do the same in the DR without risking his life?

Mr. FranktheTank, I am appalled that you have allowed yourself to hit a low blow to your fellow compatriot for speaking the truth. Illegal dominicans in search of few dollars are selling frituras, habichuelas con dulce etc.etc. Dagtan gave those ranting "una galleta" with those reality checks. BTW, 1.1 million haitians living in the DR sounds a bit exaggerated. It might be half of that living in the DR "undocumented". Employers are out to make the most money they can squeeze out of there employees. As you mention these hard working haitians have no labor rights to protect them and if they get hurt..They are sh%* out of luck. Now is there a dilemma with so many working in vulnerable conditions, yes.but at least they are doing something positive to gain a few "chelito". And we learn to speak spanish unlike most illegal dominicans even legal that have been in the US for decades and can't even purchase a chewing gum with saying "Jou spik pan." Couldn't resist. hope u see the humour.

As I said b4 the haitian government should send the message out for those tempted to cross the border. They should play the Price of No sugar in Haiti and let them know that it ain't peaches n cream on the other side and dominicans are trying to leave in loads to PR and Nueva Yol and they too should fucose on entering the US. Ok, Im pulling your leg but I cant see myself going to the DR in search of work when unemployment for the natives is high. A day without haitians in the DR would hurt the progress of the country. My solution is lower the visa entry to the DR and create jobs in Haiti & encourage dominicans to invest in haiti as well. Both countries would come out on top. Haitians & Dominicans would find the means to stay on the island and make a decent living. The flights for Haiti to DR and vice versa are loaded. Don't let the elite and a few regular dominicans make all the money in Haiti. Frank what happen with ur business venture?

Dagtan,

I'm against all illegal immigrants (DOminican, Haitian, Chinese, etc. In the U.S and all over the world. What upsets me here in the U.S. is the Dominicans who are working and paying taxes and are illegal are been sent back to DR. THat is wrong. If you are illegal in the U.S. and are contributing to the country by paying taxes which is a right of a citizen but then are being deported as illegal who is contributing, it's not right. Dagtan, Not everyone in the heights who is a vendor is illegal and if they are and not declaring taxes they should be deported. The immigrant laws in the U.S are flawed. I can't say the same thing for a Haitian vendor in DR. To fix this problem I agree with TB. Raise wages, provide benefits that wil lmotivate people to work instead of risk their lives elsewhere. Dominicans are exploited in DR with the low wages and it's embarrasing and appaulling that this is the case.

Frankthetank, thanks for the writing lesson. You seems not to understand my point, so I really do not know whether your critical abilitiies can be related to your need to point out a few errors that I by choice decided not to correct, since time and the lenght of the posting was a bit long, I must admit. I am simply pointing out that we have the same issues here in the U.S. dealing with immigrants, specially illegals. As ny4life, indicated, not all street vendors in the heights are illegals and I clearly indicated that in my posting. The same goes for those Haitians in DR, I am sure that some of those Haitians are Dominican nationals, therefore, they are not illegals, just like the thousands of children that are born of illegal Dominicans in the U.S., those kids are american citizens period and no one can deny them all the benefits and rights that come along with the american citizenship. I am making this point, because I am sick of hearing Dominicans, cont..

Also, contributing DR investment in Haiti will help. But at the same time, what is Haiti doing to prevent the massive exodus to DR Jabao? Creating jobs? Promoting an end to it? Nothing??? At least in DR there is a campaign against yolas. Yes Jabao, NY is where Dominicans want to go just like Miami/DR for Haitians.

taking the easier way with the Hatian issues. It is very easy to say, get rid of them, without any due process of legal clarifications as to those that are Dominican nationals. That means that those Dominican nationals would also be deported with the parents? Hre in the U.S. if mother is arrested for a crime and deported back to DR, her children remain here with families or simply go back with her, but never loose their citizenship, therefore, they can return at a later time. Thre has been many cases like this in the Dominican community. I am tire of educating Dominicans to hold their mouth and process what they are about to say, instead of just saying it and then try to correct it. I am for deportation of illegals, just like I am for learning English here in the U.S., people live here so they have to speak English, but in a humane manner. I have worked in instituting programs with ASPIRA in heavely hispanic communities to allow for adult ed, so people can learn English, cont..

and get their citizenship. Moreover, these vendors play a role in our economy here in NYC, so alot of work being done to help them become legal resident and pay taxes as well. As to the tax bracket, it goes to show your ignorance Mr. Frankthetank, of course you are not the one paying that huge amount every paycheck and then having to pay 11k for head start while others who are making less contribution to the city get those services for free. You Mr. franthetank, it hurts when the coin is flipped right? because maybe you and your family benefit from those free services, but you do not look at your situation when judging the Hatian one. You are a classic hypocrip, if you live in glas house please do not trow rocks, instead try to make the situation better through the development of comprehensive plan to make the situation better for the host country and the immigrants.

Dagtan, you do too many things and I am really starting to doubt you. You seems to have the answer for everything which I don't believe. I offfered to meet you before but you declined. I don't think you are Dominican bro or maybe a Haitian Dominican. Read my post above.

ny4life, we in DR do not need to create a comprehensive immigration system that would hold or reduce or a deterrent to that would tell Dominicans not to leave. We have have a "favorable immigration policy" since 1962, with the U.S. government, the DR gets the highest number of visas yearly by the U.S., therefore, there is no need to do anything in DR. The Yola situation is a moral and ethical policy, you know when you see your people dying, you must do something. But the ultimate reason for the crack down on yolas is publicity, the government suffers anytime one of these reports come acroos the U.S. and PR. The people in these countries do not look down on the Dominican people, but on the government that is not doing enough to have people want to stay in their country and take such risks. At to Haiti, they will not do anything, because DR represent the pressure valve, and whenever, they need to release pressures on their GOV, the gates are opened. We Dominicans, cont..

have to do something about this situation. One solution will be to clarify our borders with Haiti and guil a wall, just like the buil to separate Israle and Palestine, this will end the free flow of Haitians to DR. However, ny4life, the DR government needs the Haitian issues to distract from the real issues aflicting the Dominican people in DR. I am sorry to sound like I am giving you a political lesson, but many of these facts come directly from people very high in the government strata in the DR with whom I have had the privelege to talk at events here in NYC.

Excuse me for entering this exchange late, but I have been following the postings. TB, as always, adds some reason to the debate. However, on this occasion I can not fully agree with him. As is the case in most countries illegal alien workers are an important part of the economy in th DR. That is certainly the case in the US. Illegal workers typically do the jobs that no one else will take. These jobs are the hardest, most dangerous, and lowest paid. As has happened in the US, when the over-zealous neocom minwits had their way with their ill-advised beefed-up deportations, we discovered entire micro-economies fail. In the souyhwest, for example, hundreds of farms lost their crops because they had no one to harvest them. It is nice to imagine that the drug users and the mentally ill will step up and do the work once done by illegals, but the fact is they won't. They would prefer to continue to deal and pimp to earn their way. Illegal migrant workers have proved to be quite necessary.

ny4life, everytime you and I get into an intelligent exchange and you seems to be road bloacked by my points, you simply resort back to your primitive thinking. Well he sounds smart, but that is not possible of a Dominicans to know so much, oh maybe he is Hatian and do not like Dominicans because he plays the middle adn look at both sides of the story, he is to neutral and often makes sense. Also, you start saying, if he does not support us, eventhough we are wrong, he must Haitian or mixed, I feel sorry for your lack of confidence ny4life. I am in constant communication with Mr. Gonzalez, who often post on the opinion section, maybe he can answer your ignorant questions about my nationality. You ny4life, at times you really embarras me as a Dominican, just to think that in the 21st century we have not being able to escape the chains that the colonizers left behind. E-mail, Mr. Gonzalez, and ask him what is my line of business, he and I tried to get all of you guys, cont..

to sign up to a salon type meeting place at least 5 times a year, but non of you did. Finally, ny4life, I am a black Dominican if that makes you feel better.

Why do you come on this forum like you know it all? You come on here arrogant by your admission and want people to follow or agree with everything you say. I'm sorry that's not how it works. You continue to come here to bash my opinions but I play the nice card and don't respond. I respect your opinions as I know they differ from mine but that's how you learn and have a great interchange. Now, when you come here and disrespect me than there is a problem. Who are you to come here and say I'm an embarrasment and irrationale?? You gotta be kidding sorry I don't go arond here kissing your butt on everything you say. I'm one of the few Americans, Dominican-Americans or whatever that still is passionately involved and up to date with DR. I want the best for the country and I represent DOminicans here in the U.S. very well. From my college education to my current employment status. I don't need to brag like you to feel better.

Yes Dagtan, bragging is a very Dominican thing to do. No need. When you are doing well, be humble and keep it to yourself, no one cares! That's my philosophy. Every time you are an immigrant you are looked down upon buddy. In PR we are considred Mexicans, illegal and doing all the bad jobs. PR do look down upon that just like we do with Hatians, illegal and doing the bad jobs.

As far as you're claim goes, I don't have Mr. Gonzalez's e-mail address and I was never invited to the event.

Wow..the chap, Dagtan, is simply putting the mirror in front of your faces and he is called names, a haitian, a know it all. Can't you see the passion in his writings for the love he has for the dominican people and also wanting justice for his haitian brothers. I mean ok I am clearly stating Im haitian no dominican blood and I would love to meet you dominicans to clarify things in a civil manner. I would love to talk to these dominicans in spanish better not be that ghetto como tu ta talk either and not that waz up bro jive from Washington Heights. Calling a person out is on called for NY4life. There is a problem with my haitian brothers going to the DR looking for opportunity. There is something wrong with that because DR has a high unemployment rate. To answer your comment I would be the first to tell you that the haitian government needs to deter her citizens from crossing the border by creating jobs at home. Lakay se Lakay, nothing like living in ur own country.

Haiti has to take responsibility of her people and I vehemently believe dominicans should go to the haitian consulate demanding them to do something for their own people. It is only fair guys(dominicans) your country fought, and struggled to get where it is..Trujillo,Balaguer era is still fresh in the mind of the old with so much baggage passed on to you guys on the island and the diaspora. It is only right you want the best for your country but using the haitian card isn't going to solve the problem in the DR because people don't believe in the government and see you domyorks coming with all that cash (long hours in the factory) and want to be the man en el barrio too. Haitians are contributing alot, I my opinion, more than they take out and should have the opportunity just like any other immigrant. How many europeans are illegal in the DR with shady criminal records.pero son blancos and have you guys with ur tail btw your legs.Si senol blanco.como u'ted quiera.

Dominican goverment has to place Law and order in the streets this kind of bad image is bad for the tourists that go to Dominican Republic.

In Santiago There is lots of beggar (haitians) in the Street and also women with 3, 4 and 5 children begging.

This is a very negative image for business

Dominican goverment has to place Law and order in the streets this kind of bad image is bad for the tourists that go to Dominican Republic.

In Santiago There is lots of beggar (haitians) in the Street and also women with 3, 4 and 5 children begging.

This is a very negative image for business

Dominican goverment has to place Law and order in the streets this kind of bad image is bad for the tourists that go to Dominican Republic.

In Santiago There is lots of beggar (haitians) in the Street and also women with 3, 4 and 5 children begging.

This is a very negative image for business

Jabao,

It's a problem when you are illegal. You don't belong. Period. It's a problem that Haiti needs to fix which affects the DR. So when DR goes around deporting illegals it's looked down upon. Granted the manner in which is done needs to be better and it is getting there. But the right to deport illegals is fine. You can't argue with that.

Jabao,

I love to go to Haiti and meet you too. I've never been and everything I hear is negative so I'm really not attracted to it. Maybe you can show me somehting different. I'm pretty sure it's not as bad as I hear. You always have to make a jab to prove your point. You assume everyone talks with klk and whazz good. Brigthen your horizons bro. Your language technically is a pigeon french that creole is a dialect and not really french. But I won't go there with you. I have some type of respect bro. At the end of the day we are brothers man. Different yet similar.

Haitians in the DR are bringing alot to the DR and one shouldn't let there colour hinder you guys from seeing that they are just like you folks that migrated to PR and later to Neuva Yol. Is that hard to look in the mirror. Let's look at the haitians with more respect..They aren't the delinquents robbing innocent people nor at fault for the governments administration of the country. . It is ashame that these people receiving public assistance from abroad waving their pride towards the haitian that makes a few bucks doing what ever even with the disrespect some dominicans have towards them. Wake up people we haitians arent ur enemy.. I encourage dominicans to invest in Haiti as well because creating jobs to keep haitians in haiti. Every haitian i've spoken to yearn of hte day to go home(lakay).

No one is talking about color here bro. What are you talking about?? I love how you dodge my comments. I'm sure Dominicans would invest more if economic, social, and political stability is guaranteed. It's hard to get FDI (foreign direct investment) when these things are missing. That's why DR is currently growing and Haiti isn't. DR has this and currently working to strength it day by day. Also Haiti has to invest in itself to make the country attractive. Build infrastruture, roads, utilities, etc. This is what DR is doing.

Ny4life, remember I am writing in general not specifically to your comments..tranquilo hermanito. Just read my comments and remember I am replying to all. BTW, I am not taking a jab at the way dominicans speak because I know that many speak neutral and you shouldn't be ashamed of dominicanismo..it's the dominican identity believe or not..not rock en espanol and dominican wanna be Juanes. Creole is a langauge different from French that has evolve to something on it's own as spanish,english and indigenous words, african syntax . You aren't that bad man I give u respect and find myself agreeing with you sometimes and find you having so much compassion for illegal dominicans in the USA but out with los haitianos en la RD. Look in the mirror my friend and touch your heart to see that you've been dooped just like haitians in the DR and dominicans in the USA and elsewhere. Both people are struggling of centuries of injustice and we are at a pivotal point to change that.

NY4life..come here my friend..this isn't about DR vs Haiti..The growth that the DR is experiencing isn't trickling down to the mass rather foreign investors are making a killing(including haitains my friend) and dominican upper class. If I revealed the percentage of haitians that own businesses in the DR you would be shocked..Let's go with the same tune..los pobre haitianos y cada uno sigue en su camino.. I like the card that is being played..carry on...on if u knew my friend..remember it is not about haiti vs dr.

I hope those same Haitians are investing in there own country creating jobs for your people.

Ny4life, it was a pleasure interchanging opinions with you but you'll never understand nor get. again let the tune continue...haitian (my people) dominincan (your people) wait minute they are both on the same butt(fyi, yes butt not boat)..it doesn't matter to me..im not on the lower deck..nor are my close ones..shaking my head in disbelief...such is life..carry on..

The US problem is not an excuse for DR to accept an invasion of illegals! The US has its problems of executing its laws and complying with its ideals of the "land of the immigrants." DR has the problem that its neighbor is exporting its poor to another poor country (DR, Jamaica, Bahamas, Caicos & Turks, etc.). WE CAN NOT HANDLE THE INFLUX OF 2,000 ILLEGALS COMING TO DR PER WEEK ! There are 1.1 millions illegal haitians in DR and they don't own business like someone is claiming! There are more than 17,000 haitians attending Dominican universities (payed by Jesuits, France, Canada, and Norway)! Who do you think those graduates are going to displace when they look for jobs?

To Greenwave: very profesional, clear and well thinked thoughts and comments........Way to go

You are speaking in a very clear mean and logical expressions..

There is not race, hate or anything involved in your opinions.

I am not making excuses for anything. I am neither for or against illegal migration. I am simply saying that there would be no illegal migrant worker problem if the job market didn't demand and support them. It is simply a case of supply and demand. Incidently, the only problem the US has is that many of us have become soft and lazy, and will not do the work that illegal aliens are willing to do. And lastly, why is it that any opinion that is not completely aligned with yours is taken so personally? Please try to keep an open mind. This forum is a way for people to exchange ideas, not as some kind of a public club-fight.

It is a good thing what the Haitian government is doing to stop business with DR because the Republic of Santo Domingo has been torturing Haitians for years and years no one has said any thing against that; however there are many young Dominican women in Haiti working our gopvernment has done nothing about that and there are many young dominican men in haiti stealing all over the place me as Haitian I support the Haitian government alot......

Mr. Jabao, cada vez que discutimos siento un nivel nostalgia porque , nosotros hemos tenido; precisamente esta misma discusión, en varias ocasiones, en este periódico electrónico ( yo tenia el nombre Frank Aquino en ese tiempo). Yo, te e tratado de explicar, el lugar especial en que la gente Haitiana ocupa; en mi Corazón, sea suficiente, de decir, de que algunas de las personas mas importantes de mi vida han sido Haitianas. Nada de decir de lo que yo e hecho privadamente para ayudar el pueblo Haitiano. Pero señor Jabao, eso no tiene nada que ver con la situación en el piso; en Haití ,y la RD. Hay demasiados Haitianos en el RD, para el país mantener un homeostasis prolongado, por un continuo periodo de tiempo sin ayuda de la comunidad International. Esa es mi Humilde opinión, nosotros nos llevábamos muy bien cuando era yo, tu, Mike I, Mr. Acosta, y Enriquillo discutiendo este tema.

Pero, (desde que esta pagina de Internet cambio su forro) esta pagina, a sido infectada por un grupo de "sábelo todo" que no saben nada. Yo e ido a Haití, tantas veces que ni puedo contar, pero tengo que discutir la situación de el país con un(not you) Lambon, que nunca ha pisado el país o la RD y que su único punto referencia es que han visto un documental. Ahora, mi proyecto en Haití esta tan muerto como el gobierno de Aristide, pero como dije en la discusión anterior ; tiene el potencial de convertirse en una cooperativa para campesinos pobres. Señor Jabao, no te creas que me vas tener como un mono en mini-falda ( bailando) porque la ultima vez me tenias hablado hasta Frances lol. Señor Jabao, el señor Dagtag; te quiere vender la isla, la quieres comprar ? lol

Mr. Dagtag, again what does ur rant have to do with the current discussion. Please enlighten me with ur huge reserves of knowledge. I don’t know what ur people did to u sir, but u have a fair amount of animosity for ur own country and culture and I, sir, feel sorry for u (I’m not beyond attacking the Dominican Psyche to prove a point, but man, u nuke it) . Since, it’s all relative(by ur, rational) lets bring up NYC, guess what! ur in luck I’m a former New Yorker. Poor Dominicans, don’t do any more or less then what every other improvised group, in NYC has done, and that’s take advantage of the system, or was it Dominicans; to which the term “welfare queens” was coined for. Learn the cities history (please) and learn what the Italians, Irish and the Jews had to go through(Five Points, u should know where that’s at) before they were accepted(and assimilated) into the dominant culture.

Now, Mr. Dagtag, ur right I’m not in ur position, because if I was; it would probably be time for me to kiss the proverbial bullet and meet my maker. London is not a cheap city to live in, but I’m not exactly washing dishes(lol, 11k wouldn‘t cover (2/3) my monthly expenses, let alone my responsibilities in the US ). Suffice as to say that ur not the only Dominican in a high income bracket. Just clarify, I have never said, I agree or want to get lumped in to what Greenwave, JRRubirosa are regurgitating ;I just found it pretentious, arrogant, and ironic for one person to insult another’s educational level when they can’t spell.

Mr. Frank thetank, maybe you should start by spelling my name correctly (DAGTAN) I did it in upper cases, just in case. When it comes arrogance, I do not one drop of it in my blood, due to my humble Dominican origins. I still have families over there that live in poverty and are not getting the services and opportunities a country is obligated to provide to its citizens. It is always easy to call someone name when they are presenting something that is true, but painfull, Mr. Frankthetank, position on this forum has been established a long time ago. I am on the side of calling out on the injustices that are committed to the general population in DR simply for their economic status or personal looks. I am not any way talking about my monthly bill, nor what my income is, but simply showing you guys how things are and why it is not as easy as some of you put it when it comes to Haitians in DR. I believe in deportation, but in humane way, not in the way that is currently being done, C

in the DR. I simply do not tolerate the double standard that it is used by many Dominicans to deal with the Haitian issue. Yes, Mr. ny4lie, you are correct in stating that illegals, regadless of the origin are often discriminated and treated differently, but not in the manner that Haitians are demonized in the DR. You do not see PR, Americans, or Scandinavians calling out their illegal Dominican population or rounding them up and simply putting them in planes without due process. That is all I ask, due process for these people, they human, just like you and I. It is ok, if you guys do not agree with my neutrality, but one needs to see both sides in order to make sound judgement, do not be blined by your ultra nationalism. I rather be an activist, than a fanatic when it comes to the DR. I have worked extensively in the education system in NYC and everything I post here is related to that field, therefore, your statement about me pretending that I know everything is flawed, cont..

I am still deep in the educational system and continue to work to better the lives of those that are in such system. I understand that the only way for a culture and a people to preserve their customs and behaviors is through education. In no way have I ever tried to put you down, Mr. ny4life, but you simply upsets me when you come out your theory that whoever writes points that might be to your dislike, now that person must be Haitian. I am Dominican and I have the right to disent on as many points and positions as I want. It is simply primitive, an I owe you an aoplogy for the (embarrassment) comment. It should not happen, specially among ourselves, we must be united regadless of our disagreements and agreements. I am reporting on what is true about the Dominican people in the U.S., of course there is always a brighter side to the story, but one can not only concentrate on the good things, when there is more to fix than leave alone.

This is like the typical argument of GOD existance between a Jehoba witness and an atheist>.

To Frank the Tank, From The Motheland, The Great Britain, this is for you, and I can't assure you I can claim British citizenship at any time I want, since I'm third British generation and fourth from Ireland and I don't mind you live there or work there, we do need some laborers there!!!!!!!

"How can someone, not living in his rightfull place of birth have any morality to be disgusted of those who in the same manner live in his place of origin." (LHKIV Feb 2, 2008) Teach this to your children, so they don't grew up with complexes.

Lack of reasoning, I'm only entitle to see whats convenience for me to see !!! When those around him, might be thinking the same of him. I still don't get it, how can someone be so "egoist", they can migrate but others can't to their place of origin DR, I bet people with this reasoning wont satisfy a British lady......keep up with "manuela".

I'm new to this website and these well eduacated opinions inspire me to become more involved with these things. And I hope it gives me a better understanding on why haitains shouldn't be transported back to haiti. And ive had alot of negative thoughts about haitains due to the fact that my cousin in DR was mugged at gun point by a haitain and took his money, hat, and graduation ring. And that has led me to frustration about haitains being in DR. So i hope this can give me a different view on haitains.

DRzCalderon, you seem to have an open mind. Often, when we are confronted with personal danger, such as being mugged at gun-point (or having it happen to a close relative) we want to prevent that situation from happening again. To do that we tend to generalize what we preceive to be the danger. That way it is easier to avoid danger in the future. The problem with generalization is that nothing is ever quite that simple. By generalizing we tend to make assumptions that are not true. Obviously, not every Haitian is a mugger, for example. I have been robbed by several different nationalities, and, of course, it would be virtually impossible to avoid every member of each of those ethnic groups. A more intelligent method for me to avoid danger is to avoid certain situations and to exercise certain behavioral analysis of my environment. What separates humans from other animals is our ability to reason. This occurs when we move beyond our initial emotional response, and rationally think.

I have noticed a great deal of emotion exhibited in these postings. Of course, emotions are not always a bad thing. But when discussing political situations we should attempt to keep our emotions in check. We should make use of our ability to reasonably and rationally think about positive solutions. Otherwise we are no better off than any other group of animals, quarrelling over every scrape of food. I would hope we are above that. Although, at times, I wonder.

Mr. Dagtan, I’ll be as brief with my comments as(have a lot say) possible, as the less evolved are getting restless. The comments made to Mr. Jabao, were not regarding you, as you are not new to this forum or this web site. It would be easy to dismiss me as a “fanatic” who loves everything about the status quo(in the DR), but that is simply not the truth (check ur friends Mr. Acosta editorials for my comments).Mr. Dagtan, I don’t subscribe to apocrypha, or deify my opinions; I leave the “all truths” for demigods, and divine beings. I can only make statements based on my observations and experiences(as my specialty is not in this field); I was there getting Haitian children into DR schools, before it was “fashionable”, I was there teaching English in DR(and living) , to underprivileged youths.Most of all, I take exception, to your comments about the Dominican community in NY; because I’ve heard them before.

Its usually by a Dominicans(from NYC) that came from the bottom up, stayed in Nyc to go to a private college (usually Wagner, or St. Johns or maybe Barnard) when they graduate they automatically thump their nose , at the rest of the community. They belittle, the rest of the community to make themselves(and their accomplishments) seem rare(which are not). Now, this may not apply to you( I don’t Know you) ,but cacophonous tone of ur statements hints that it may. Are the Haitians Mistreated in the DR? I don’t who, would tell you that, they are not. They are treated the same way, in Haiti. While you choose to blame Dominicans and help Haitians in the Dr, I want(now this is more in my field)to HELP HAITI reach a point were it can recall all its citizens home.As, Mr. Jabao, eloquently mentioned the: Haitians want to go back home. Mr. Dagtan, Ur fallacy, begins when u begin to apply American standards to a Dominican problem. Due Process, are you serious?

We can’t even keep the lights from going out for two weeks(lol). Nobody in the DR, has access to due process let alone the poorest and the most disenfranchised, Mr. Dagtan, the DR is a Particularistic society that needs to change in many places, for it,to even begins giving our Haitian brothers the respect that they deserve. Now ur statements; about countries not deporting illegal’s(Dominicans), I would advise you check your facts, to check what; Italy, Spain, France, and yes, the American government have been doing over the last 1 ½, take Tulsa, OK, for example, if you can give an illegal immigrant a ride in your car u can be put in jail. I don’t blame you for not knowing this information, because u live in the bubble that is NYC, NY.. Where they want to give illegal’s driving licenses.

I would also would love for you to, read up on the histories of Greeks and Turks, the Kurds and Turks, the Serbs and Albanians, and the Irish and British(northern Ireland,I was going to mention Israel, but u have mentioned middle East conflict) , for you can get an idea of the level of hostility that exist between the DR and Haiti. Then you can read about the situations in Darfur, Sudan and the histories of Nigeria and Uganda . Where the most minute of differences are turned into catastrophic disasters by just a spark of anger. Mr. Dagtan, I respect your opinions as my compatriot and do agree, we can’t always look at the accomplishments that our people have made in the US; when there’s so many problems that need attention. Next, time I’m in New York how about a Cafecito ? Close your eyes and let me deal with Mr. Perception my New York manners might be coming to surface.

Mr. Perception, I HAVE NEVER BROKEN ANY IMMIGRATION LAWS,(US Citizen and Veteran) if you must know, I’m here in London doing market research at LSE, and working at RBS(as a broker). But I’ll let you in, on a secret, I’m on a secret mission funded by my Indian friends and African American friends to impregnate as many British “wenches” as pay back to the British , for the blanked with Smallpox which was given to the Indians as a present. I have enlisted the help of my Haitian and Dominican friends in South Florida in supplying me with, Barbancourt, Brugal and maybe a mama Juana. I must report that my mission has been a success as of late (LOL).

Unless you have fish to offer or Scoth whisky, good luck with your endeavour.

I’ve read ur posting about six times and I must confess, I can’t understand WTF, u are trying to say, and Mr. Jabao, says us Dominicans don’t speak English(lol). Man I knew the no child left behind act was under funded, but DAMN . Man u are a Commy-hippie-liberal- duchebag. WTF is there in IOWA, why don’t you go watch the F’in corn grow, u piece of S***. U was, what I was referring to, as the scum that has infected this site. Why I’m not going to waste my time any more. Why Don’t you stick to having conversation with the Jr varsity of the board like Rubirosa and greenwave because they are more on ur level. We need to set up a meeting were we can find out if these internet bullies are that tough in person.

Yes I agree, its not your college level, LOL but this is your description "Size of a man, its measure by the size of the words that make him mad". Shorty JA JA

Mr. Frankthe tank, with all due respect, your preposition that I look down on my own people is simply pathetic and irresponsible on your part. I have decided to become an activist for the progress and development of Dominicans in the NY area and allow them the same opportunities that are afforded to the dominant group in the American culture. Yes, you are right I attended ST.Johns under a double degree status and attended other private schools in the city, but I have always spoken against the injustices that are committed against poor and black Dominicans alone with the Haitian issue. I believe in deportation, but even Spain and the other European countries provide due process for illegals and give these illegals a degree of rights. This is not the case in the DR, thus allowing for Dominican nationals to treat Haitians as subhumans and get away with it. In today's DR if a Dominican national kills a Haitian, there is the probability that the person would not face any charges, cont.

this in itself eliminates the responsibility factor to the right to live from a Dominican point of view towards Haitians. The fact that I compare the laws and the immigration policy of the U.S. and often hold the DR to the same standards is because many of the posters here either live in the U.S. or are connected to the U.S. through families connections. They need to recognize that what they want done with the Haitians in the DR must be reflected first and action first and reflection later is no the way to go. In essence they are asking for the DR to deny to Haitians the rights that we fight for here in the U.S., the rights that we embrace and live by in the U.S. those same rights, Mr. Frankthetank allow a poor Dominican 14 year old to come to the U.S. and develop into a higly educated productive citizen, those rights are the foundation of our future as immigrants here in the U.S. If the Americans will call Dominican illegals which the number is much larger only in NYC than, cont.

the rest of country, we will be outraged by such actions. Therefore, we can not simply issue a blank statement about the Haitian issue in DR. Furthermore, my commnent about the Israel is very simple and I do not know why you had diffculties interpreting it, I said that if the DR wants to stop uncontrolled Haitian migration, they need to build wall defining the border and establish migratory post along the wall to check for papers. At the same time I stated that the DR government would never control the Haitian issue, because it is politically profitable and takes the Dominicans citizens eyes from what they are doing with their natural reserves and future. For Dominican politicians, the Haitian issue is a necessary evil, while for Haiti is a relief valve, simply reducing the pressures from the Haitian's government. The issue will never stop, because both government need it for political purpose, it is like synbiotic relationship, they need each other to survive.

Great Discussion: I’m glad were into the thick of things

Mr. Dagtan, if you were to read my posting more carefully ; I was elucidating a decrepitude among some friends of mine, and again, I don’t know you, to make that kind of a statement about you. With that said; take in mind, this is not meant to be a pugnacious attack ,but (a rebuttal to your comments) ur statements on Feb. 1, 10:31-1038 PM; make you sound condescending and supercilious to me(but hey! maybe I caught you in a bad day). Mr. Dagtan,(in your last posting) u made some great points..! I understood ( I guess you missed my point) ur Israel comment perfectly, I was just using it to emphasized that: countries with a history of hostility and malice for each other, are condemned to an endless circle of hate and violence until something drastically changes. If your comments are tailor made for this forum(cont)

How is this line of thinking going to help the Dr and Haiti ? Mr. Dagtan, ur right the dominican condition(in the US) can be is used to make a good point ; not a solution(to the Haitian issue), because in my opinion, a western solution will never be practical or logical in a third world country. Ur wall idea will never happen( the international pressure Israel is getting for the same idea would break the DR) and if( I must admit I don’t like I find it Berlin Esq.)it did, when there’s an election and an opposition candidate wins; it will be left half done, and in moth balls. U might be right, the Haitian issue may never change, but the migration can be slowed by bringing Haiti into stasis and therefore stabilizing the situation. As, I said; there a myriad of things that need to be resolved for our country to move to a level of development were it truly can help Haiti. The international community can solve most of the issues right now why don't they Mr. Dantan?

I humbly, agree that both countries are forever linked by the twists of fate. And until both countries accept each other as equals it will never change, but things can certainly get worse. I’m for a realist solution to Haitian issue not a emotional or idealist conjecture which would change nothing Mr. Dagtan, I also know about the American dream, In my opinion, Dr is not going to change; to a level where it can be compared to US, in opportunity. But maybe, one day it can provide better opportunities to its citizens, to a level where any child through hard work; can reach as high as he can, sadly we are very far from that dream.

Dagtan & FranktheTank, Great comments! Btwn Dagtan and I there is no malice, just slightly different views. At the end we want the best for DR and our people.

FranktheTank welcome to the forum. Dagtan and I have been posting for a while.

Perception: thanks dear brother for your good wishes and We are in the same page since I also pray to god for your soul so you stop hating Dominican Republic and Dominicans.

Anyway We keep in touch dear haitian brother and always miss your comments so I could get my good motivation.

Blessings for you too

Say it loud ny4life. I really respect your views and also recognize your intentions. You and I are like religion, we are looking for the same thing, just doing it in different ways.

"How can someone, not living in his rightfull place of birth have any morality to be disgusted of those who in the same manner live in his place of origin."

Mr. NYC4life,I've been here for a while just under a different name, like many of the old guys; I changed my name when the web site upgraded.