SANTO DOMINGO.- The Industry and Commerce Ministry’s (SEIC) Hydrocarbon director yesterday confirmed that within three months will begin the plan to mix ethanol with gasoline, known as “gasohol,” and a Brazilian and an American company will import the additive.
Rafael Lopez said in the first stage the fuel mix could be as much as 10 percent ethanol. " It has been observed that that percentage wouldn’t require making any modification to engines on vehicles. The level of yield of the car will be the same. Now, if it goes beyond those numbers then changes would be needed, and for that reason I believe it wouldn’t go over 10 percent."
On Tuesday Industry and Commerce authorized the mix of gasoline and ethanol as an alternative so motorists can save as much as 30 percent in the cost of fuel, though this proportion wouldn’t vary from 7.5 percent ethanol and 92.5 percent gasoline.
"So far there are three companies which will import ethanol to the country. Two Brazilian and one American. One is linked to the Vicini group and one of the Brazilian companies is located in Jamaica, and the ethanol would be imported from that country,” said Lopez.
From: United States
who is going to prepare the cars to run on this mixture? as i noted before in another posting, unless cars are flex fuel prepared, they cannot run on an ethanol mix, at least not for long.
Written by: Cacique, 20 Mar 2008 9:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
You hit it on the festering sore Dreads, I made the mistake of pumping "gasohol" in late 1970s and trashed a great engine...
Written by: DaniDr, 20 Mar 2008 9:59 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The main problem with gas is that we have to import it. Brazil saves a lot of $$$ by adding 10% of alcohol to gas, that is, 10% less fuel to import. Now, if the DR has to import the 10% of alcohol they are going to put on the fuel, what is the advantage of using it at all?? In my opinion CERO, NADA, NOTHING!
Apparently, the only beneficiary of this move are the three companies that will be in charge of importing the ethanol.
From: United States
actually,DaniDR, the auto repair facilities are in for bumper years, as we noted above. you can rest assured that the public will not be notified of the incompatibility of ethanol and normal engines, because that would defeat the importers' purpose. i guess it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good!
Written by: DaniDr, 20 Mar 2008 10:28 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
dreadlocks, your correct on that.
Maybe the idea of ethanol and the idea of manufacturing auto parts in the DR come from the same person!
From: United States
Ethanol its the most absurd idea created to rest ill effects of globalization. Ethanol its not free, from the 10%, theres a cost to it. Its a scam as many others, it only benefit, Corn producers, poultry, hog, cow, egg, and many derivatives of product made of corn starch and the grain. Here in the US all this products has gone 25-35% up, beside gasohol its US$3.09.
So, I ask myself, Wht its goind on??. Another Bull S*&t !! in order to help this producers and manufactures to make more profit, since Labor and Distributor wages has not gone UP !!!
Research, before you have an opinion on this ethanol lie, Its just a "Population Control" thing !!
From: United States
Its easier to manufacture three cylinder cars, and others control like industrialization of solar panels, aerolystic generation and many others.
I havent heard that the Federal Government its going to remove the subsidized agriculture, so, what its going on ?
Its been proven that a US GL of fossil fuel needs to be burned to produce a US GL of ethanol, CO2 cyrcle. Ethanol its heavily subsidized.
Already "Monsanto" brief management on ethanol. "Its going to collapse the industrial world".
Have a nice day.
Written by: bernies, 20 Mar 2008 12:08 PM
From: United States, falls church va
ethonol should be stop production because in the long run it is going to affect all of us. like percption is saying the price all product that use corn syrup and sugar has going up all over the globe and that is just the biginning.
Written by: JCjua, 20 Mar 2008 12:56 PM
From: United States, New York
Pessimists, why don't you educate yourselves before giving an absurd opinion.
Dominican economy was primarily based on agriculture.
DR starts importing the fuel, and then you produce it for self consumption.
Point should be made: will USA and Brazil allow the DR to produce its own ethanol when DR gets to produce it in the future?
From: United States
again, JCjua, i call upon you to point out the absurd, uneducated opinions in this thread. if you think ethanol production is a good idea, please illustrate why. there are many schools of intellectual thought who believe it is unsustainable technology because of the input to output ratio. maybe you could give us your educated rebuttal.
Written by: JCjua, 20 Mar 2008 1:08 PM
From: United States, New York
Sorry, mr school of whatever. You send me a check and I'll be glad to school you.
but I don't do charity.
From: United States
holy Jesus! not another clueless poster weighing in with insults. this forum has gone to the dogs, i tell you!
Written by: santanar, 20 Mar 2008 1:45 PM
From: United States
Here in the US the gas station Hess is already missing gas and 10% ethanol, check it-out is clearly mark at the pump.
From: United States
i am aware of that ,santanar. but in the us, if you noticed, the vehicles that use ethanol blends are designated FLEX FUEL. i haven't seen too many of those here. i can assure you that if you own a regular vehicle in the usa and you introduce ethanol blends into the fuel system, you warranty will be immediately voided! if you doubt me, just take a gander over to the closest dealer and ask the salesman!!
Written by: JCjua, 20 Mar 2008 3:01 PM
From: United States, New York
That's a no dreadlocks.
Is a 1988 Honda Accord a Flex Fuel compatible?
If it is then you're right.
But most gas stations in the NY tristate area do say that the gas contains 10% ethanol.
Written by: santanar, 20 Mar 2008 3:47 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks, for your awareness; I drive a dodge durango with the 5.9 liter v8 engine and have not notice any problem, but remember like most consumer I shop around and hess with 10% E- gas is not always the cheapest. take care bro/
From: United States
not yet, santanar. and if it is still under warranty, be sure not to divulge that you have been putting ethanol into the tank ( they will find out ,anyway). the process of degradation is not immediate. your seals and rubbers and fuel lines will die prematurely, and the dealer will throw you out the door if you try to get them repaired under the warranty!
Written by: Mangil, 20 Mar 2008 4:44 PM
From: Canada
A 10% ratio "should not" be a problem with most fuel injected cars... 2 stroke engines are an other story
-most vehicule computers (fuel injection) will adapt to that low ethanol level... optimise, probably not but adapt.
-ethanol = greather oxygen(air) to fuel ratio.
high air to fuel ratio = lean engine, low air to fuel ratio = rich engine
-Carburated engines may be rich or lean from the factory and will sometime run better/worst They will usually require a little tuning to be 100% compatible
-A modern vehicules that use steel/neoprene fuel lines should be safe from "plastic hardening" symptoms (+/- 1990 and up)
-Lean running is the 2 stroke engine worst enemy, lean mixtures create overheating/lubrification problems in these engines... most small motorcycles in DR are 2 stroke type
From: United States
thanks for all that info ,Mangil. only thing is this: what about the corrosive effects of ethanol in regard to gas tanks, manifolds,etc? also, do you have any info on warranty issues? what do handboks say?
Written by: Mangil, 20 Mar 2008 5:03 PM
From: Canada
At the begining of the '90, smowmobile engines in the north USA started to blow without obvious reasons... Polaris, one of the "Big four" snowmobile mfg. discovered that Ethanol was the cause... It is still unclear if it was really the case of if it was a convenient excuse for poor quality production but the Ethanol = mechanical failure perception probably started at that time... Snowmobiles in the '90 where using very powerful 2 stroke engines factory tuned "at the edge of self destructon" with very little margin for bad gas to start with...
Written by: Frank176, 20 Mar 2008 5:06 PM
From: United States
10% Ethanol and GAs mixture should not affect 99% of cars in the us they already mix it like that in the US now thats 10% less Oil we have to import and we can produce it with sugar cane not corn like the us we need to follow brazils lead and become self suficient with regards to oil brazils ethanol plants not only produce fuel but also electricity and it burns cleaner than coal I think the chinese are building one in DR maybe someone can comment on that I know there no coal in DR but we sure as hell have a lot of sugarcane
From: United States
yes, Mangil, if they were tuned for maximum power they probably were running suicidal compression ratios and extreme engine temperatures. any leaning out of the motor would cause it to detonate. so i can understand that eventuality. thanks again for much needed info. readers, please take these cautionary observations with the requisite degree of seriousness.
From: United States
welcome back Tank! you have been conspicuously silent of late. i guess the salubrious climate in the british isles has put you in hibernation mode.fear not: sunnier days await. the cars in the usa are manufactured for that purpose and designated flex-fuel. my query is whether or not the ones imported to the dr share the same modifications. secondly, the savings would not be a straight arithmetic swap: ethanol , depending on biomass origin, releases 30% less energy than petroleum, so more of it will have to be used to replace the 10% petroleum subtracted
From: United States
Lets forget for a minute about the harm done to engines.
The basic problems its at the cost/benefit. We need to solve first agriculture for food source competing with ethanol !!!
Written by: Mangil, 20 Mar 2008 5:19 PM
From: Canada
Here is a link (boring to read I must admit) to a repport from the Minesota state regarding ethanol use (maybe you can skip the Winter use of ethanol part)
BTW, Polaris , the snowmobile mfg mentionned above is a Minesota based mfg.
http://www.auditor.leg.state.mn.us/PED/pedrep/9704-ch3.pdfFrom Autorepair (regarding Rust problems):
"the ethanol has a cleaning effect that will remove rust and other junk from the fuel system. This necessitates frequent fuel filter changes until the fuel system is cleaned out."
Warranty, I really dont know... I am not up to date with mfg warranty programs, they probably vary from country to country anyway. The only thing I know, Everything is under warranty until it broke LOL That's time proven and universal...
From: United States
most perceptive, Perception. at what cost do we produce ethanol? what is the input to output ratio of energy? if we use all the available land to plant cane, where does the domestic supply of food come from? what about ecological degradation and associated costs, occasioned by excessive use of fertilizers and the runoff into potable water aquifers? these questions have to be exained with extreme zeal.
From: United States
thanks again, Mangil. the article is tiresome reading, but very informative. i would like to see the findings of a more current study, since this one is approximately 14 years old, though.
Written by: JCjua, 20 Mar 2008 5:52 PM
From: United States, New York
Dreadlocks,
Where you able to visit Santo Domingo in the 1980's?
To tell you the truth I have not seen more sugar cane than that in my life.
I believe they planted orange trees in some of that land, but I don't believe they covered 5% of the land available.
From: United States
yes JC, i have been in the DR in the 80's. bear one thing in mind: given the best possibe case scenario, 1 square mile of biomass will produce the petroleum equivalent of 7,000 barrels of petroleum per year. as Perception wondered, what is the real cost, and what is the opportunity cost?( some economists actually think that the opportunity cost IS the real cost) could each arable square mile be better served if we planted something else and buy ethanol from a country such as brazil, which, because of sheer size, enjoys a comparative advantage in this area? not because we CAN produce something means we SHOULD produce it. we can produce biodiesel from sunflowers, but input energy is 118% higher than output energy.. clearly, that is not sustainable!
Written by: santanar, 20 Mar 2008 7:32 PM
From: United States
dreadlocks your concern is well taken, but we as responsible citizen of the world need to do something about the availability of oil in the mid term and long future and above all it risen cost, and the effects on the small economy like the one in DR, the excuse for not using Ethanol is the food supply of corn and other agriculture products, how about if somebody find a way to make an engine run on water, what then?
Written by: Mangil, 20 Mar 2008 8:13 PM
From: Canada
"since this one is approximately 14 years old, though."
Yes...funny how 15 years ago, at the begining of all that ethanol thing, they answered the questions and raised the concerns that we have now....
From: United States
actually, santanar, my concern is not solely in the curtailment of available land for other agricultural pursuits, such as food production. my posting above expresses my concern from a cost -benefit perspective.
Written by: BLANCO, 22 Mar 2008 7:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic
who is the importer? food for fuel!!! something amiss here...better go look at that CAFTA-DR agreement to find out who the real beneficiaries are...it sure isn't the Dominican people
From: United States
wait, its not gasohol, its aqua-gas-ohol,
aquagasohol, don't forget they mix water also into the gas !!!
Written by: santanar, 23 Mar 2008 5:03 PM
From: United States
Art least with CAFTA the prices of basic necessity has gone done, I went to the market the other day and the price are under con.
From: United States
you went to the market where, santanar? in the usa? would you care to illuminate your comment by telling us which prices have gone down? bear in mind all the time that we are talking about prices in the DR, please.
Written by: santanar, 24 Mar 2008 4:23 PM
From: United States
Of course that the price I'm talking about is not in the US, where are you? have you been in the country after CAFTA?, I was there in December, price of popular items like apple, grapes, pears, plum, that use to cost and arm and a leg are down, milk is down from 9.63 to 863 and for what my folk tell me, the price of chicken and eggs are also down due to the restrictions by Haiti to that industry, I know we are in an election years and for some is go and for other is bad, but I don't care about politics and call the way I see it.
From: United States
i really dont understand the significance of including the price of apples, plums and pears in an analysis of market basket prices. these are not staples. they are unconscionable luxuries in a country that has some of the most wonderful indigenous fruits. what you need to look at is the price of staples. ask about the price of rice, platanos, bread, then tell me that prices have gone down. ask about the cost of flour and its baked derivatives. it is of no significant import if we see a fall in the price of pate de foie gras!
From: United States
and by the way, santanar, you characterise apples, pears, plums and grapes as "popular items". popular amongst whom? i have numerous dominican friends, and i cannot ever remember ever seeing any of them eating a plum or a pear. grapes and apples, yes: very, very rarely. maybe you are describing a group of people with far greater financial wherewithal than the average individual.
Written by: santanar, 25 Mar 2008 6:38 AM
From: United States
dreadlocks, very respectfully will have to say that your friends don't know what they are talking about, during Christmas this items are a must in the Dominican table along with the puerco asao. Go and visit the country and see for yourself what I'm talking about.
From: Canada, Toronto ,Cabbagetown,Parliament and Gerrard
"dred the red"is always espousing positions from the grassy knoll and the lunatic fringe....but he is basically harmless and non violent. when it comes to ethanol he should go to Brazil and enlighten them about all these wonderful things he is an expert on
From: Canada, Toronto ,Cabbagetown,Parliament and Gerrard
may be dred and TB can fly down to Brazil in one of those dumb air planes we bought from Brazil and see how they do it there
From: United States
go visit the country, Santanar? i live there most of the year. and just about every christmas since 1989! and i have never seen anyone eating pears and plums, at least not the ones with which i am familiar. i have seen the consumption of apples and grapes: i still await the visage of my dominican friends partaking of a scrumptious repast of anjou pears and california plums!!
From: Canada, Toronto ,Cabbagetown,Parliament and Gerrard
dred what do pears and plums have to do with you going down to Rio with TB in our new airforce to check on ethanol technology
From: United States
going to Rio will be a good idea only on one condition: you get to ride on the landing gear!!
From: Canada, Toronto ,Cabbagetown,Parliament and Gerrard
that how you came to America if my memory serves me.....be careful the INS frowns on these things
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Apparently, the only beneficiary of this move are the three companies that will be in charge of importing the ethanol.
Maybe the idea of ethanol and the idea of manufacturing auto parts in the DR come from the same person!
So, I ask myself, Wht its goind on??. Another Bull S*&t !! in order to help this producers and manufactures to make more profit, since Labor and Distributor wages has not gone UP !!!
Research, before you have an opinion on this ethanol lie, Its just a "Population Control" thing !!
I havent heard that the Federal Government its going to remove the subsidized agriculture, so, what its going on ?
Its been proven that a US GL of fossil fuel needs to be burned to produce a US GL of ethanol, CO2 cyrcle. Ethanol its heavily subsidized.
Already "Monsanto" brief management on ethanol. "Its going to collapse the industrial world".
Have a nice day.
Dominican economy was primarily based on agriculture.
DR starts importing the fuel, and then you produce it for self consumption.
Point should be made: will USA and Brazil allow the DR to produce its own ethanol when DR gets to produce it in the future?
but I don't do charity.
Is a 1988 Honda Accord a Flex Fuel compatible?
If it is then you're right.
But most gas stations in the NY tristate area do say that the gas contains 10% ethanol.
-most vehicule computers (fuel injection) will adapt to that low ethanol level... optimise, probably not but adapt.
-ethanol = greather oxygen(air) to fuel ratio.
high air to fuel ratio = lean engine, low air to fuel ratio = rich engine
-Carburated engines may be rich or lean from the factory and will sometime run better/worst They will usually require a little tuning to be 100% compatible
-A modern vehicules that use steel/neoprene fuel lines should be safe from "plastic hardening" symptoms (+/- 1990 and up)
-Lean running is the 2 stroke engine worst enemy, lean mixtures create overheating/lubrification problems in these engines... most small motorcycles in DR are 2 stroke type
The basic problems its at the cost/benefit. We need to solve first agriculture for food source competing with ethanol !!!
BTW, Polaris , the snowmobile mfg mentionned above is a Minesota based mfg.
http://www.auditor.leg.state.mn.us/PED/pedrep/9704-ch3.pdf
From Autorepair (regarding Rust problems):
"the ethanol has a cleaning effect that will remove rust and other junk from the fuel system. This necessitates frequent fuel filter changes until the fuel system is cleaned out."
Warranty, I really dont know... I am not up to date with mfg warranty programs, they probably vary from country to country anyway. The only thing I know, Everything is under warranty until it broke LOL That's time proven and universal...
Where you able to visit Santo Domingo in the 1980's?
To tell you the truth I have not seen more sugar cane than that in my life.
I believe they planted orange trees in some of that land, but I don't believe they covered 5% of the land available.
Yes...funny how 15 years ago, at the begining of all that ethanol thing, they answered the questions and raised the concerns that we have now....
aquagasohol, don't forget they mix water also into the gas !!!