SANTO DOMINGO.- Dominican Republic will have to pay Venezuela US$4.04 million in interests and capital at yearend, and US$18.7 million next year for fuels bought through president Hugo Chavez’ Petrocaribe oil deal, implemented to help the region’s poorer countries.
According to data from the Hacienda Ministry, whenever the Dominican Petroleum Refinery gets Venezuela’s crude within the Petrocaribe deal, 60 percent of that fuel is paid in cash and 40 becomes Government revenue.
The energy cooperation agreement allows Dominican Republic to buy up to 40 percent of Venezuela’s oil on credit, in a quota of up to 50,000 barrels daily.
Faced with a new round of oil price jumps, Venezuela will host a Petrocaribe summit July 7, which 16 heads of State of member nations will attend, where they’ll analyze the situation and the measures to take to guarantee energy security.
Last month Hacienda minister Vicente Bengoa said US$720 million have been earned with the Petrocaribe deal, which have been spent on subsidies through the State-owned power companies grouped in the CDEEE.
The official said in 2009 government will pay the US$18.7 million with farm products, medicines or with services such as tourism, because the agreement is open to many possibilities.
For Venezuela ambassador Francisco Belisario Landis, Petrocaribe has become a lifesaver for the Caribbean countries, strapped by the rises in the price of a barrel of crude world-wide.
The short term payment of 60 percent of the bill was extended from 30 to 90 days.
Venezuela will accept that part of the bill’s differentiated payment could be done with goods and services.
SOURCE diariolibre.com.do
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
nutty hugo with Danny the Diddler
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
after they.... Interpol proved he was financing FARC
From: United States
Just another debt that Teflon Fernadez has incurred on the backs of the Dominican populace.
Pretty soon at this rate the camel will have his back broken.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
the hippo is still wearing a brace
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 12:35 PM
From: United States, Texas
Oil is still high, even when it's sold with a mark-down.
If a country doesn't want the generous Petrocaribe mark-down and prefers the imperialist price set by speculators, hedgers, Exxon, Chevon, Shell and other imperialist looters, then the country can happily pay three times as much to the imperialist thieves for the same amount of Petrocaribe oil.
Some imperialist slave states prefer imperial oil on any imperialist terms over Petrocaribe deals. Nothing delights slave states more than to be plundered by imperial slime and then dominated by the IMFand World Bank when the slave state proves unable to pay the imperialist debt.These imperialist slave states are deeply offended by the fair and equitable deal that Petrocaribe offers.
To be sure, Venezuela is making money on Petrocaribe, but not as much money as Venezuela could make if it behaved like an filthy imperialist.
Cuba sets a splendid example of re-payment of the credit portion of Petrocaribe with goods and services.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 12:48 PM
From: United States, Texas
SLAVE STATE: Mr. IMF and, you too, Mr. World Bank, can I please use the billion dollars I saved on Petrocaribe to subsidize electrical generation and the prices of food staples.
IMF and WORLD BANK: You fool, what you wanta to do that for? That's not sustainable. Use whatever you save on the Petrocaribe to pay the imperialist debt ... of, more politely, the "foreign" debt.
SLAVE STATE: But without subsidies, the people won't eat and they will be in darkness.
IMF and WORLD BANK: So?
From: United States
""The official said in 2009 government will pay the US$18.7 million with farm products, medicines or with services such as tourism, because the agreement is open to many possibilities.""
In other words we are selling / giving up the DR to Chavez and his people at the end. I have allways said that oil money becomes dirty money in the long run. DR better fine the money and pay him back asap.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 1:26 PM
From: United States, Texas
60,000 barrels per day X 360 days = 21,600,000 barrels a year.
As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit.
At the moment, a barrel is over $100. So, the terms are 50% cash and 50% credit.
Say, the average floor price of a barrel is $115. So, 50% cash portion is about $57 a barrel and 50% credit is also about $57 for the same barrel
21,600,000 barrels a year X $57 a barrel = $1,231,200,000 for annual cash portion
So, 2 X $1,231,200,000 = $ 2,462,400,000 the total cash and credit portions or total price for a year.
Without Petrocaribe, DR would have to pay the imperialists a lot more thatn $2.4B this year because capitalism uses middlemen parasites, each getting a cut.
The DR pays the Petrocaribe $1.2B.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 1:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
This calucation above ignores the fact that DR doesn't and can't consume its full 60,000 barrels per day quota from Petrocaribe because of limited refining and storage capacity and the vile and disruptive presence of the bourgeoisie "the private sector" in the DR's oil industry'
In reality, the DR uses about half of its Petrocaribe quota of 60,000 barrels a day. So, the calculation above estimates the maximum cost if the quota was fully exploited ... which, again, IS NOT the case.
So, if we take into consideration the DR's actual ... not potential ... use of the Petrocaribe facility, the cash portion of annual purchases is only around $600 million dollars.
From: United States
to Belial,
you forgot to mention how the other 50 % has to be paid and how the interest is calculated.
Belial you are so far out to lunch that i am surprised you even beleive your own quotations.
So before you brand every one of the imperialist pigs you forgot to mention that the other 50% is a debt that still has to be paid ot Venezuela.
1 plus 1 is still 2 unless you are a good communist as you seem to be and then it means 1.
There is no free lunch even for you Belial
From: Afghanistan, BAF
I beleive that Venezuela has WMDs and with the FARC pose a clear and present danger to the Empire, Please write your senators and congressmen so we can get 'Operation Orinco" set in motion. Go USA !
From: United States, Brooklyn
pappabowie YOU'RE *** NUTS....
From: Afghanistan, BAF
Yes sir, That will get 'ol bellyache Belial up and going ;)
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:27 PM
From: United States, Texas
"I beleive that Venezuela has WMDs and with the FARC pose a clear and present danger to the Empire, Please write your senators and congressmen so we can get 'Operation Orinco" set in motion. Go USA !"
oooo
The statement above is a vivid and naked expression of the evil mentality and morality of US reactionaries ... or, if you insist " US conservatives," "rightwingers," or "GOP scum" ... who constitute about one-third of the US people or, say, about 100 million people.
These savages ... many are in, near, and above the US military ... are evil to the point of damnation, that is, forever irredeemmable.
GOP scum feels an uncontrollable desire to militarily "do" Venezuela like they've done Iraq, BECAUSE of Petrocaribe which has cut the fuel costs of many poor countries and similar Venezuelan initiatives like Mission Miracle which has surgically restored the eyesight of over a million people in 30 countries in four years.
To "do" means to exterminate 2 million people.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:34 PM
From: United States, Texas
"You forgot to mention how the other 50 % has to be paid and how the interest is calculated," JImHarrington falsely alleges.
0000
I wrote above "As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit."
If you read it, you'll find out how the interest is calculated.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Belial you are so far out to lunch that i am surprised you even beleive your own quotations," JIm alleges.
0000
Stay surprised.
From: United States
I beleive that Venezuela has WMDs and with the FARC pose a clear and present danger to the Empire, Please write your senators and congressmen so we can get 'Operation Orinco" set in motion. Go USA !
Hey you have until Nov 2008 to execute the war for the BLACK GOLD.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:39 PM
From: United States, Texas
"So before you brand every one of the imperialist pigs you forgot to mention that the other 50% is a debt that still has to be paid ot Venezuela," Jim falsely alleges.
0000
Again, I wrote above "As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit. "
How was I supposed to know that you don't know what "credit" is.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:41 PM
From: United States, Texas
"1 plus 1 is still 2," Jim alleges.
000
I agree.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 2:44 PM
From: United States, Texas
"There is no free lunch even for you Belial, " Jim truthfully observes.
oooo
Petrocaribe was not presented to the Caribbean as a free lunch nor is it implemented as a free lunch.
This free lunch nonsense emanates solely from you.
From: Afghanistan, BAF
Probably 6mil if you count their families......they all live in shacks you see so with even the most 'surgical' strikes there is bound to be considerable collateral damage, but they elected a force of communism to control a marketable asset , so they all deserve what ever happens, besides thanks to Hugo the people will probably be starving to death in a few years anyhow.
GET'R'DONE
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 3:11 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Probably 6mil if you count their families......they all live in shacks you see so with even the most 'surgical' strikes there is bound to be considerable collateral damage, but they elected a force of communism to control a marketable asset , so they all deserve what ever happens, besides thanks to Hugo the people will probably be starving to death in a few years anyhow," pappabowie lusts.
0000
Some of our innocent and childlike brethren with liberal and "independent" ideological leanings believe that the " pappabowies" are freaks in the USA.
Wrong.
These repulsive savages are a small minority of the US people, making up only about third of the population. But they aren't freaks because you can't have 100 million freaks walking around. At a 100 million, they are something of a minor norm.
As for this "pappabowie," here, he or it or whatever it is is a mild example compared to the bestials that populate most GOP-oriented websites.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 3:18 PM
From: United States, Texas
Most of the bestials, the mainstream of the GOP, simply say "Come on, you all, let's nuke 'em."
From: Afghanistan, BAF
100,000,000 SAVAGES WITH THE FINEST IN MODERN ARMS TECHNOLOGY...I suppose 'all we need is love' mindset comes up some what impotent in comparison. I just want to ride my harley and imbibe in pharmasutical olympics once in a while so we all probably have more in common than we realize. But there is a time to party and a time to look out for your own interest. I wouldn't advocate genoside but some Ideaologys must be resisted and at the end of the day he with the bigger stick comes out on top , If evil beasties with big shiny wepons weren't keeping the wolves at bay and the lights on , The liberals would have REAL problems besides sueing grade schools over christmas plays and trying to make sure Steve and Bob have the 'right' to get married. Live and let live , but encroach on our interest and incur the wrath of hell fire. Diplomacy is hollow and meaningless with out the option of force on the table.
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 3:56 PM
From: United States, Texas
Pappabowie, since I haven't removed the duct tape, how do you express your opinions?
From: Afghanistan, BAF
Aww, your a sweetheart. Why wont uncle Hugo Sell his oil to the empire, I mean he's stolen, I mean nationalized american property to extract it, I thought Exxon should have destroyed the platforms other than letting the theives make off lock stock and barrel... maybe burnt a few commie villages on their way out :)
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 4:27 PM
From: United States, Texas
LF
p.1 of 2
After his notable performances at the Rio Summit and at the Rome Summit, people are watching LF, praying he has the brains and spirit to do something.
oooo
Santo Domingo, Jun 17 (Prensa Latina) Dominican President Leonel Fernandez is still meeting his economic and energy specialists looking for a solution to the impacts of the world fuel crisis on the Dominican fragile economy.
Since last week, President Fernandez is consulting his Social and Economic Cabinets, the National Energy Commission and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, for a strategy with a greater consensus to fight the impact of the increase in the price of food and fuel.
The pressure on the government of Fernandez is increasing as much as August 16, the date in which he will take office as President of the Republic for a second consecutive mandate, is approaching.
Fernandez won the general elections in May, in which the economic topic was the main and basic one.
CON"T
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 4:29 PM
From: United States, Texas
LF
p. 2 of 2
Fernandez and his experts were in a meeting for more than three hours at the National Palace, trying to elaborate measures to let the country at least avoid the impact as much as possible and get ready for the near future.
It is possible that some measures are already decided, and they might be announced by Fernandez himself, as an Integral Development Plan for the country.
Last Saturday, the Premium gasoline broke the psychological barrier of the 5.88 dollars a gallon, which might be once more broken on Friday, when the prices of fuel are being readjusted.
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={BD08048C-0B95-4CBB-9862-634A29C083F3})&language=EN
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Pappy wack that moron again with the pinata stick
Written by: Belial, 17 Jun 2008 5:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
Within the array of petroleum products, the DR hungers for, among other things, reasonable jet fuel.
Petrocaribe has it, but in limited quantities.
And Petrocaribe is most inclined toward state entities, not "private sector" hustlers.
To get more reasonable jet fuel, the DR should bring, at least, something to table.
After all, the celebrated JimHarrington in our forum, the apparent US reactionary or independent, informs us that there are no free lunches.
From: United States
To Belial.
You correctly stated on the balance the debt is calculated at 1% over 25 years.
Since I do not beleive that Hugo Chavez does anything without it being a benefit to Hugo Chavez, Belial can you tell me how the 1 % is calculated.
Is it based on 1% per month simple interest or compounded interest .
Belial how is it calculated and what is one 50% of a barrel worth after 25 years?
Can you tell us the facts on this and where you got these numbers.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 12:09 AM
From: United States, Texas
BENEFIT TO HUGO
p. 1 of 2
"Since I do not beleive that Hugo Chavez does anything without it being a benefit to Hugo Chavez, Belial can you tell me how the 1 % is calculated."
oooo
There are many mechanics and the method is fairly well standardized internationally in the oil business, but essentially method of calculation of interest is the same as method your creditor uses if you have a visa or mastercard credit card ... American Express is a little different ... but instead of a 24% rate of interest and a large pile of fees that you most likely pay on your credit card, the rate for Petrocaribe is only 1% without the pile of fees.
Your visa and mastercard compounds interest on a periodic basis and oil deals commonly do the same thing.
Most oil dealers own computers that automatically calculate the interest due in real time down to the second, once the balance and rate are entered into the online calculator managed by something called, I think, software.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 12:19 AM
From: United States, Texas
BENEFIT TO HUGO
p. 2 of 2
Hugo benefits in a way that is more fundamental than usury, like the isssuer of your credit card.
Venezuela produces a barrel of oil for between $15 and $ 25, depending on the kind of oil produced, and sells it to a Petrocaribe member for, say, $57, that is, at a 50% downpayment on the market price, something like a 100% or 120% profit on the cash portion of the deal alone.
Now, you want to know how does one benefit by producing something for less and selling it for more than the production cost, for you suspect usury, tampering with the interest rate.
I have no idea how one benefits from the difference between cost and sale price.
If you figure it out, please tell me.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I love the photo...it looks like they all look happy unlike the citizens of Venezuela....that country is circling the drain and nutty hugo is throwing the countrys money around like a drunken sailor....I hope they skin him for everything hes got while they can ....his days are counting down
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dont forget to save some for foreign political bribes and the FARC guerillas
From: United States
to Belial,
You still havent answered the question.
Is the interest on the balance owed 1 % permonth or 1% per year.
Forget the flowers give a straight answer if you have one.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
belial use your brain if you have one
Written by: rom1804 
, 18 Jun 2008 10:02 AM
From: Zimbabwe
Which one of those 3 is Duarte
From: United States
to Belial,
It is now apparent you only blow wind and don't have any answers.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Jimi come you knew that a long time ago
From: United States
He (belial) just makes it sound as if he knows what he is talking about but when questioned he goes away like hot air.
From: United States
To all memebers on the forum.
Does any one know how the 1% is calcualted is it a monthly rate on the balace or is it an annual percentage rate of 1% amortorized over 25 years.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 2:14 PM
From: United States, Texas
"You still havent answered the question"
0000
Then do your own research.
From: United States
To Belial
you are not only stupid and now arrogant.
So your arrgument is useless without any data to back it up.
Wind must simply blow out of your mouth and you enjoy hearing yourself breathe.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 2:46 PM
From: United States, Texas
Petrocaribe Doubles Distribution
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={92658D15-52FF-4589-8A7E-5F2F4A3DF482})&language=EN
Jun 18 (Prensa Latina) Petrocaribe distributes 140,000 barrels [this excludes the Cuban shipments] of oil daily among its members and provides daily savings of 800 million dollars, reported Venezuelan sources.
Six months ago Petrocaribe reported distribution at 76,000 barrels daily [that excludes the Cuban shipments] with 2,387 million dollars cost and about 40 percent saving of 437 million dollars bill.
In June 2005, 14 Caribbean countries, including the DR, joined.
Nicaragua, Haiti and Honduras joined it in August, 2007 to raise membership to 17.
Guatemala is applying.
The group is preparing an extraordinary summit for July 7 in Caracas. Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers met in Havana, June 16 and 17, to discuss new proposals for Petrocaribe's response to the fuel crisis, a result of speculative trading by ravenous imperialists.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 2:50 PM
From: United States, Texas
"you are not only stupid and now arrogant."
oooo
Idiot, if you know so much, why don't you find an answer ... that satisfies you ... to your own stupid question?
From: United States
Belial,
Your the one that made a statement regarding the petrocaribes gracious terms.
I was just trying to get clarification to your statement.
You posted things that gave no insight into the pricing and now you blame it on everybody not wanting to make research.
You made the statement I just asked an intelligent question so as to give credence to your support of Teflon Fernadez.
Now because you cannot support your claim you blame us.
Stupid and idiot are some of the few words that come to mind when people like you make these unsupported statements.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 4:08 PM
From: United States, Texas
"You made the statement I just asked an intelligent question so as to give credence to your support of Teflon Fernadez."
0000
You fool, yours was a stupid question because everybody knows that 1% is somewhere between 0 and 2%. If you too stupid to multiply a sum of the principal and unpaid interest times 1% for specified period, that's your problem.
Go to School.
From: United States
Belial
Now what is it 1% per month or 1 % per year????
this is simple enough even for you.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 8:43 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Now what is it 1% per month or 1 % per year????"
On the cash or credit portions?
The cash portion:
The Agreement allows 60 days grace in which payment is deemed cash. The period of grace
can be extended to 90 days by mutual agreement. If the grace option and extension are exercised, then it's 1% per month.
Credit portion:
The Agreement states that either 40% or 50% of the market price that is financed will be at "1% over 25 years."
Any fool knows that this "1% over 25 years" means 1% per year for 25 years.
Generally accepted acccounting priniciples (GAAP) which are widely observed in Latin America and the Caribbean (or their corresponding EU accounting principles in the euro colonies in the Caribbean) govern the interpretation of abbreviated expressions like "1% over 25 years."
Why don't you take your pedantic garbage back to the lousy college that taught you?
The Petrocaribe Agreement is a public document at the PDVSA site.
Written by: Belial, 18 Jun 2008 9:05 PM
From: United States, Texas
The details of the bilateral ageement solely between PDVSA and the Dominican energy agency responsible for Petrocaribe matters is a classified document in Venezuela and most likely a classified document in the DR. So, I can't affirm or deny whether the bilateral agreement pursuant to the multilateral Petrocaribe Agreement has a provision that bears on your pedantic and lousy question because parties to any deal by mutual consent may override generally accepted principles and business customs and usages.
From: United States
to Belial,
A simple question brings out your complete ingorance and inability to give a simple question.
I personally beleive that you do not have a clue of anything you post which is typical of a communist stooge. He simply repeats without question and beleives it to be gospel.
Good luck in your endevours to save the world with your idiotic cut and paste posts.
From: United States
Belial,
Now was that so hard, the answer is 1 % per month on the balance owning.
so a little over 13% compounded over a year amortarized over 25 years.
Thats a very expensive credit arrangement for the DR so go back to your calculation which your presented and you will see that the DR is in hock over its ears to Venezuela.
Chavez therefore is not the nice socialist that you make him out to be.
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 12:06 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Now was that so hard, the answer is 1 % per month on the balance owning," the resident liar says.
That's NOT my answer liar. I knew that's was the lie you wanted to promote.
Again, my answer was 1% per month for the cash portion which has a 60-day grace period. If payment is made within the grace period, it is deemed a cash payment up front, but the exercise of grace triggers a 1% interest for the first and second month. there's is a possibility of an extension for extra 30 days to which the 1% also applies.
As for the credit portion, the interest rate is 1% per year, but accrued interest at the annual rate 1% is POSTED electronically and separately in the PVDSA and Dominican interest accounts in real time, that is, every five seconds.
You are a slimy pro-bourgeois dog to try to present this as "1% per month."
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 12:22 PM
From: United States, Texas
JimHarrington, you are blessed with all the erudition and glory of a pedant (a phony who overemphasizes minor details) and a philistine (a bigger phony who is also an extremely conceited idiot).
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 12:37 PM
From: United States, Texas
At the upcoming July 7 of Petrocaribe summit, Chavez is going to propose some kind of joint ventures in food production for Petrocaribe members with Venezuelan petroleum assistance, technical assistance from members and non-members with a highly developed agricultural bases, and some kind of food distribution arrangement or network; in other words, a kind of Agrocaribe similar to Petrocaribe.
Tall order for Latin America/Caribbean frightened of US rulers.
The bourgeois and cappie slime or garbage will naturally oppose an agrocaribe as they oppose a Petrocaribe, preferring to applaud the US imperialists who are doing nothing to stop or impede the famine and crub oil prices.
As millions of people die from starvation and suffer from absence of all forms of energy, including electricity, the smug and blase bourgeois slime pulls out his holy book or "bible," waves it at the hungry and then throws it as the hungry, warning "Get your soul saved before it's too late."
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 4:42 PM
From: United States, Texas
FIDEL AND THEORY
p.1
On April 17, 1962, Fidel Castro declared with revolutionary will "I am a Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life."
Now, already 82 years old, Fidel is still effortlessly keeping his word.
He published a brief piece June 18, 2008, titled the "THE ELEPHANT AND THE ANT" which shows with matchless lucidity that Fidel is still a Marxist Leninist, in every sense, and a masterful one.
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={D1A904E9-06DF-412F-A8A4-5CAA39D41C48})&language=EN
Being a Marxist Leninist means either one of three things or some combination from among the three things.
One can be Marxist Leninist in theory or in organization or in practice.
In "THE ELEPHANT AND THE ANT," Fidel shows once again that he is at home in matters of theory as he is with organizational and practical matters.
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 4:44 PM
From: United States, Texas
FIDEL AND THEORY
P.2
Seeing his amazing eloquence, his phenomenal memory, and his power to do
instantaneous and complex computations in his head, some revolutionary brethren wondered over the years whether Fidel could do theory, too.
Theory is something more immediate to Fidel.
To Fidel, theory a evolving set of regularities, uniformities, interconnections, and generalities about the world, out there and in here, found in both reality itself and, second-hand, in the literature. These things are rarely immediately perceptible to individuals; few can do it.
So, some of our less astute brethren believe that theory is more a matter of literature or a matter of the literary representation of reality, [which indeed extremely important, but not primary].
The immediacy of theoretical perception in rare individuals and rare groups of individuals sometimes fools some of out brethren who lamentably come to believe that these odd percipients neglect literature.
Written by: Belial, 19 Jun 2008 4:45 PM
From: United States, Texas
p.3
Make no mistake, Fidel knows the literature, but he also sees what the literature is about.
Written by: Serpent, 19 Jun 2008 11:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Does the republic really have a choice.......better this then that...at any percent rate.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
we will all be going to havana to relieve ourselves on fidels grave soon ...it wont be long....bring toilet paper for the cleanup ..no granma newspapers please
From: Grenada
It would seem a great deal of people do understand what the petrocarib agreeement is about, I would like to say it is about new opportunity for goverments within the caribbean and the businessmen who have the vision to take advantage of this opportunity . just straight up good business in the face of US and EU bullying that has been happening for some time.
Flip side, well someone always has to be on top.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Now we will have to go to grenada to kick out the venezuelan commies this time
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
The real issue here is capacity and ability to produce a product that can be refined elsewhere. There were four upgradres built on the NE coast of Venexzuela from 1997- 2005 they are in order of construction-Petrozuata,50-50 Conoco/PDVSA, SINCOR, 35% Total,20% Statoil, 45%PDVSA, HAMACA, 60% Exxon, 40% PDVSA, and Cerro Negro-35% Mobil(Exxon), VEBA20% and PDVSA. These upgraders are not refineries they take the extra heavy Orinoco Oil and coke it, and take out the sulpher and you are left with a zuata sweet that can be refined at any refinery in the world. When the projects were nationalized Conoco and ExxonMobil left the country, during the construction phase of these projects the engineering companies that built them, Foster Wheeler, Bechtel and Parsons, placed their patented technology in the process units and sold that technology to the aforementioned oil companies...........
From: Grenada
gouletcolonial i see you have a problem with commies and a good sence of humour but pls tell us wat is wrong with the petrocarib agreement?. As for capacity and product there is no problem there
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
since the engineering was done for a specific client the same client became the owner of the technology and agreed to have all repair and major maintenance performed by same. Since Hugo took over the equipment and the oil companies left they took with them the rights to the technology, therefore when there is an issue with the process equipment Hugo must call Exxon or Conoco and ask them to arrainge for repairs to the technology that they own. In Short it is like taking your Ford to a Dodge dealership and asking them to fix your car with a Chrysler part. It does not work, cant be done. Citgo is the foriegn arm of PDVSA and they make the profits for Venezuela in the refineries that are outside of Venezuela. Just like a good socialist, he blasts capitolism yet without it he would be screwed and he knows it.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
when the time comes due to the lack of maintenance and some of those upgraders go offline, where will petrocaaribe be?? if you can not produce a refined product, petrocaribe falls apart.
From: Grenada
Tex i acept your statement my point is that he has presented to the smaller islands here in the caribbean a chance to make some money and use it to help devolpe the island.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Ghost,
I know what I am talking about as I worked at Petrozuata and SINCOR for almost 6 years. The extra heavy oil needs a special type of refinery to make gas, diesel, fuel oils etc. Those upgraders are the reason they can send excess out of Venezuela, prior to them coming on line the produced only for themselves. IF they go down, back to square one and there will be not exports. The same Citgo is in 2 joint ventures with Extra Heavy refineries one in St. Croix in partnership with Hess Oil that GC has seen with his eyes and the other is in Meroux Louisiana and funny enough the partner is none other than ExxonMobil.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
My problem is simple really, he is paying the Bolivian Military because boliva can not, he is paying the governemnt of Nicaragua, he is paying the government of Cuba and the people of Venezuela are suffering like nobodys business. I still have a step-daughter there and my in-laws are there. There is no work, The streets and the infrastucture is falling apart and he is shortchanging his own country.
From: Grenada
the caribbean islands who have signed up to the agreement have a very small carbon footprint their need is not as lets say china, therefore they have the chance to use the agreement to get access to oil that they can sell on.
From: Grenada
Tex pls contact me at ausetfilms@hotmail.com
From: Grenada
pdvsa had been in business long before hugo got there and the problem in the ecomony had been there to. poverty and lack of opportunity cannot be fixed over night esp when there are so many ext forces working against you, he has allowed Ven to become a key player in the caribbean which is good news, its has been all one sided from my point of view unto hugo.
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Pretty soon at this rate the camel will have his back broken.
If a country doesn't want the generous Petrocaribe mark-down and prefers the imperialist price set by speculators, hedgers, Exxon, Chevon, Shell and other imperialist looters, then the country can happily pay three times as much to the imperialist thieves for the same amount of Petrocaribe oil.
Some imperialist slave states prefer imperial oil on any imperialist terms over Petrocaribe deals. Nothing delights slave states more than to be plundered by imperial slime and then dominated by the IMFand World Bank when the slave state proves unable to pay the imperialist debt.These imperialist slave states are deeply offended by the fair and equitable deal that Petrocaribe offers.
To be sure, Venezuela is making money on Petrocaribe, but not as much money as Venezuela could make if it behaved like an filthy imperialist.
Cuba sets a splendid example of re-payment of the credit portion of Petrocaribe with goods and services.
IMF and WORLD BANK: You fool, what you wanta to do that for? That's not sustainable. Use whatever you save on the Petrocaribe to pay the imperialist debt ... of, more politely, the "foreign" debt.
SLAVE STATE: But without subsidies, the people won't eat and they will be in darkness.
IMF and WORLD BANK: So?
In other words we are selling / giving up the DR to Chavez and his people at the end. I have allways said that oil money becomes dirty money in the long run. DR better fine the money and pay him back asap.
As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit.
At the moment, a barrel is over $100. So, the terms are 50% cash and 50% credit.
Say, the average floor price of a barrel is $115. So, 50% cash portion is about $57 a barrel and 50% credit is also about $57 for the same barrel
21,600,000 barrels a year X $57 a barrel = $1,231,200,000 for annual cash portion
So, 2 X $1,231,200,000 = $ 2,462,400,000 the total cash and credit portions or total price for a year.
Without Petrocaribe, DR would have to pay the imperialists a lot more thatn $2.4B this year because capitalism uses middlemen parasites, each getting a cut.
The DR pays the Petrocaribe $1.2B.
In reality, the DR uses about half of its Petrocaribe quota of 60,000 barrels a day. So, the calculation above estimates the maximum cost if the quota was fully exploited ... which, again, IS NOT the case.
So, if we take into consideration the DR's actual ... not potential ... use of the Petrocaribe facility, the cash portion of annual purchases is only around $600 million dollars.
you forgot to mention how the other 50 % has to be paid and how the interest is calculated.
Belial you are so far out to lunch that i am surprised you even beleive your own quotations.
So before you brand every one of the imperialist pigs you forgot to mention that the other 50% is a debt that still has to be paid ot Venezuela.
1 plus 1 is still 2 unless you are a good communist as you seem to be and then it means 1.
There is no free lunch even for you Belial
oooo
The statement above is a vivid and naked expression of the evil mentality and morality of US reactionaries ... or, if you insist " US conservatives," "rightwingers," or "GOP scum" ... who constitute about one-third of the US people or, say, about 100 million people.
These savages ... many are in, near, and above the US military ... are evil to the point of damnation, that is, forever irredeemmable.
GOP scum feels an uncontrollable desire to militarily "do" Venezuela like they've done Iraq, BECAUSE of Petrocaribe which has cut the fuel costs of many poor countries and similar Venezuelan initiatives like Mission Miracle which has surgically restored the eyesight of over a million people in 30 countries in four years.
To "do" means to exterminate 2 million people.
0000
I wrote above "As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit."
If you read it, you'll find out how the interest is calculated.
0000
Stay surprised.
Hey you have until Nov 2008 to execute the war for the BLACK GOLD.
0000
Again, I wrote above "As long as the market price of a barrel stay above $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is no more that 50% up front in cash and the other 50% on credit, financed at 1% over 25 years. If the market price falls below $100 a barrel, the Petrocaribe price is 60% up front in cash and 40% on credit. "
How was I supposed to know that you don't know what "credit" is.
000
I agree.
oooo
Petrocaribe was not presented to the Caribbean as a free lunch nor is it implemented as a free lunch.
This free lunch nonsense emanates solely from you.
GET'R'DONE
0000
Some of our innocent and childlike brethren with liberal and "independent" ideological leanings believe that the " pappabowies" are freaks in the USA.
Wrong.
These repulsive savages are a small minority of the US people, making up only about third of the population. But they aren't freaks because you can't have 100 million freaks walking around. At a 100 million, they are something of a minor norm.
As for this "pappabowie," here, he or it or whatever it is is a mild example compared to the bestials that populate most GOP-oriented websites.
p.1 of 2
After his notable performances at the Rio Summit and at the Rome Summit, people are watching LF, praying he has the brains and spirit to do something.
oooo
Santo Domingo, Jun 17 (Prensa Latina) Dominican President Leonel Fernandez is still meeting his economic and energy specialists looking for a solution to the impacts of the world fuel crisis on the Dominican fragile economy.
Since last week, President Fernandez is consulting his Social and Economic Cabinets, the National Energy Commission and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, for a strategy with a greater consensus to fight the impact of the increase in the price of food and fuel.
The pressure on the government of Fernandez is increasing as much as August 16, the date in which he will take office as President of the Republic for a second consecutive mandate, is approaching.
Fernandez won the general elections in May, in which the economic topic was the main and basic one.
CON"T
p. 2 of 2
Fernandez and his experts were in a meeting for more than three hours at the National Palace, trying to elaborate measures to let the country at least avoid the impact as much as possible and get ready for the near future.
It is possible that some measures are already decided, and they might be announced by Fernandez himself, as an Integral Development Plan for the country.
Last Saturday, the Premium gasoline broke the psychological barrier of the 5.88 dollars a gallon, which might be once more broken on Friday, when the prices of fuel are being readjusted.
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={BD08048C-0B95-4CBB-9862-634A29C083F3})&language=EN
Petrocaribe has it, but in limited quantities.
And Petrocaribe is most inclined toward state entities, not "private sector" hustlers.
To get more reasonable jet fuel, the DR should bring, at least, something to table.
After all, the celebrated JimHarrington in our forum, the apparent US reactionary or independent, informs us that there are no free lunches.
You correctly stated on the balance the debt is calculated at 1% over 25 years.
Since I do not beleive that Hugo Chavez does anything without it being a benefit to Hugo Chavez, Belial can you tell me how the 1 % is calculated.
Is it based on 1% per month simple interest or compounded interest .
Belial how is it calculated and what is one 50% of a barrel worth after 25 years?
Can you tell us the facts on this and where you got these numbers.
p. 1 of 2
"Since I do not beleive that Hugo Chavez does anything without it being a benefit to Hugo Chavez, Belial can you tell me how the 1 % is calculated."
oooo
There are many mechanics and the method is fairly well standardized internationally in the oil business, but essentially method of calculation of interest is the same as method your creditor uses if you have a visa or mastercard credit card ... American Express is a little different ... but instead of a 24% rate of interest and a large pile of fees that you most likely pay on your credit card, the rate for Petrocaribe is only 1% without the pile of fees.
Your visa and mastercard compounds interest on a periodic basis and oil deals commonly do the same thing.
Most oil dealers own computers that automatically calculate the interest due in real time down to the second, once the balance and rate are entered into the online calculator managed by something called, I think, software.
p. 2 of 2
Hugo benefits in a way that is more fundamental than usury, like the isssuer of your credit card.
Venezuela produces a barrel of oil for between $15 and $ 25, depending on the kind of oil produced, and sells it to a Petrocaribe member for, say, $57, that is, at a 50% downpayment on the market price, something like a 100% or 120% profit on the cash portion of the deal alone.
Now, you want to know how does one benefit by producing something for less and selling it for more than the production cost, for you suspect usury, tampering with the interest rate.
I have no idea how one benefits from the difference between cost and sale price.
If you figure it out, please tell me.
to Belial,
You still havent answered the question.
Is the interest on the balance owed 1 % permonth or 1% per year.
Forget the flowers give a straight answer if you have one.
It is now apparent you only blow wind and don't have any answers.
Does any one know how the 1% is calcualted is it a monthly rate on the balace or is it an annual percentage rate of 1% amortorized over 25 years.
0000
Then do your own research.
you are not only stupid and now arrogant.
So your arrgument is useless without any data to back it up.
Wind must simply blow out of your mouth and you enjoy hearing yourself breathe.
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={92658D15-52FF-4589-8A7E-5F2F4A3DF482})&language=EN
Jun 18 (Prensa Latina) Petrocaribe distributes 140,000 barrels [this excludes the Cuban shipments] of oil daily among its members and provides daily savings of 800 million dollars, reported Venezuelan sources.
Six months ago Petrocaribe reported distribution at 76,000 barrels daily [that excludes the Cuban shipments] with 2,387 million dollars cost and about 40 percent saving of 437 million dollars bill.
In June 2005, 14 Caribbean countries, including the DR, joined.
Nicaragua, Haiti and Honduras joined it in August, 2007 to raise membership to 17.
Guatemala is applying.
The group is preparing an extraordinary summit for July 7 in Caracas. Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers met in Havana, June 16 and 17, to discuss new proposals for Petrocaribe's response to the fuel crisis, a result of speculative trading by ravenous imperialists.
oooo
Idiot, if you know so much, why don't you find an answer ... that satisfies you ... to your own stupid question?
Your the one that made a statement regarding the petrocaribes gracious terms.
I was just trying to get clarification to your statement.
You posted things that gave no insight into the pricing and now you blame it on everybody not wanting to make research.
You made the statement I just asked an intelligent question so as to give credence to your support of Teflon Fernadez.
Now because you cannot support your claim you blame us.
Stupid and idiot are some of the few words that come to mind when people like you make these unsupported statements.
0000
You fool, yours was a stupid question because everybody knows that 1% is somewhere between 0 and 2%. If you too stupid to multiply a sum of the principal and unpaid interest times 1% for specified period, that's your problem.
Go to School.
Now what is it 1% per month or 1 % per year????
this is simple enough even for you.
On the cash or credit portions?
The cash portion:
The Agreement allows 60 days grace in which payment is deemed cash. The period of grace
can be extended to 90 days by mutual agreement. If the grace option and extension are exercised, then it's 1% per month.
Credit portion:
The Agreement states that either 40% or 50% of the market price that is financed will be at "1% over 25 years."
Any fool knows that this "1% over 25 years" means 1% per year for 25 years.
Generally accepted acccounting priniciples (GAAP) which are widely observed in Latin America and the Caribbean (or their corresponding EU accounting principles in the euro colonies in the Caribbean) govern the interpretation of abbreviated expressions like "1% over 25 years."
Why don't you take your pedantic garbage back to the lousy college that taught you?
The Petrocaribe Agreement is a public document at the PDVSA site.
A simple question brings out your complete ingorance and inability to give a simple question.
I personally beleive that you do not have a clue of anything you post which is typical of a communist stooge. He simply repeats without question and beleives it to be gospel.
Good luck in your endevours to save the world with your idiotic cut and paste posts.
Now was that so hard, the answer is 1 % per month on the balance owning.
so a little over 13% compounded over a year amortarized over 25 years.
Thats a very expensive credit arrangement for the DR so go back to your calculation which your presented and you will see that the DR is in hock over its ears to Venezuela.
Chavez therefore is not the nice socialist that you make him out to be.
That's NOT my answer liar. I knew that's was the lie you wanted to promote.
Again, my answer was 1% per month for the cash portion which has a 60-day grace period. If payment is made within the grace period, it is deemed a cash payment up front, but the exercise of grace triggers a 1% interest for the first and second month. there's is a possibility of an extension for extra 30 days to which the 1% also applies.
As for the credit portion, the interest rate is 1% per year, but accrued interest at the annual rate 1% is POSTED electronically and separately in the PVDSA and Dominican interest accounts in real time, that is, every five seconds.
You are a slimy pro-bourgeois dog to try to present this as "1% per month."
Tall order for Latin America/Caribbean frightened of US rulers.
The bourgeois and cappie slime or garbage will naturally oppose an agrocaribe as they oppose a Petrocaribe, preferring to applaud the US imperialists who are doing nothing to stop or impede the famine and crub oil prices.
As millions of people die from starvation and suffer from absence of all forms of energy, including electricity, the smug and blase bourgeois slime pulls out his holy book or "bible," waves it at the hungry and then throws it as the hungry, warning "Get your soul saved before it's too late."
FIDEL AND THEORY
p.1
On April 17, 1962, Fidel Castro declared with revolutionary will "I am a Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life."
Now, already 82 years old, Fidel is still effortlessly keeping his word.
He published a brief piece June 18, 2008, titled the "THE ELEPHANT AND THE ANT" which shows with matchless lucidity that Fidel is still a Marxist Leninist, in every sense, and a masterful one.
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={D1A904E9-06DF-412F-A8A4-5CAA39D41C48})&language=EN
Being a Marxist Leninist means either one of three things or some combination from among the three things.
One can be Marxist Leninist in theory or in organization or in practice.
In "THE ELEPHANT AND THE ANT," Fidel shows once again that he is at home in matters of theory as he is with organizational and practical matters.
P.2
Seeing his amazing eloquence, his phenomenal memory, and his power to do
instantaneous and complex computations in his head, some revolutionary brethren wondered over the years whether Fidel could do theory, too.
Theory is something more immediate to Fidel.
To Fidel, theory a evolving set of regularities, uniformities, interconnections, and generalities about the world, out there and in here, found in both reality itself and, second-hand, in the literature. These things are rarely immediately perceptible to individuals; few can do it.
So, some of our less astute brethren believe that theory is more a matter of literature or a matter of the literary representation of reality, [which indeed extremely important, but not primary].
The immediacy of theoretical perception in rare individuals and rare groups of individuals sometimes fools some of out brethren who lamentably come to believe that these odd percipients neglect literature.
p.3
Make no mistake, Fidel knows the literature, but he also sees what the literature is about.
Flip side, well someone always has to be on top.
I know what I am talking about as I worked at Petrozuata and SINCOR for almost 6 years. The extra heavy oil needs a special type of refinery to make gas, diesel, fuel oils etc. Those upgraders are the reason they can send excess out of Venezuela, prior to them coming on line the produced only for themselves. IF they go down, back to square one and there will be not exports. The same Citgo is in 2 joint ventures with Extra Heavy refineries one in St. Croix in partnership with Hess Oil that GC has seen with his eyes and the other is in Meroux Louisiana and funny enough the partner is none other than ExxonMobil.