SANTIAGO.- The north region business leaders grouped in the Santiago Chamber of Commerce and Production yesterday said they support construction of a railway to link Santiago and Santo Domingo.
In a statement Chamber president Carlos Fondeur said there’s a high enough freight and passenger flow between both cities to justify the project. “In the present context of fuel increases a new rail line would contribute to the economic activity’s competitiveness."
He said the project would resume a service which already existed in the beginning of the 1900s, but its absence at present has significantly limited the country’s development.
Fondeur said the country deserves an important impulse in road infrastructure investment and in Santiago’s case, it’s the North Bypass avenue, a demand of more than one decade, which will so benefit the towns Villa González, Tamboril and Licey.
President Leonel Fernandez recently said in Rome that his Government studies the possibility of building a railway to link Santo Domingo with Santiago, with joint private sector and government funding.
Written by: jonjrs, 6 Jun 2008 9:05 AM
From: United States, Miami, FL
About time they got their act together and realized the possible savings they can achieve by shipping via rail. Also, it might help by weakening the stranglehold that the "sindicatos de transporte" have on the country right now. The best thing is being able to visit Santiago and the beautiful women there.....it's the "best-kept secret" in DR, lol......
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
this is an interesting concept if it breaks the sindicatos....How much$ ? and will it dramatically reduce shipping costs and can we have passenger service as well ....it would be better than riding the Hound
From: United States
i always liked the idea of a rail link between the capital and other cities. apart from the obvious possibilities regarding movement of freight and passengers for routine purposes, there is also the possibility of a pullman style luxury coach intended for tourists and well-heeled locals who want to see the interior of the country in comfort. a feasibility study should be commenced to investigate the viability of such ideas.
Written by: buenoha, 6 Jun 2008 10:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Railway system should not stop between Santiago and Sto. Dgo. It should go from Sto. Dgo. to Pto Plata via Santiago and from Santo Domingo to Punta Cana via La Romana, San Pedro and Higuey.
From Monte Christi to Punta Cana via Puerto Plata, Confresi, Sosua, Cabarete, Samana, Miches. From Santiago to Dajabon via San Juan. The last but not least should cover the South, from Santo Domingo to San Cristobal, Azua, Bani, Barahona, Pedernales.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
If your gonna dream then dream BIG
From: United States, New York City
What about the track that was laid out in the late 19th and early 20th century that the article alluded to? Are any segments of it still useable or salvageable?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I believe it was all english stations with narrow Guage and apart from the route I doubt would be of any use
Written by: santanar, 6 Jun 2008 1:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Ramon Santana, La Romana
In one of my past entry I mention that the usage of existence railways utilizes by Central Romana and others should have been use to commercially connect others cities like San Pedro-Santo Domingo amongst others.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
the kind of track {guage] used to hall sugar cane is not very good for passenger or freight the land it sits on would be adaptable but not the track ....and the ties would have to be replaced also probably
Written by: santanar, 6 Jun 2008 2:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Ramon Santana, La Romana
Well said GC, but a pound of sugar is not more then a pound of mass//
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I think it had to do with speeds and overall cost
Written by: santanar, 6 Jun 2008 2:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Ramon Santana, La Romana
I'm a strong believer in mass transit, and if this hit the ground running our nation will be entering the 22 century, yes the 22nd/
Written by: zak325, 6 Jun 2008 5:03 PM
From: United States
A rail system is a good idea, mostly for commercial reasons, but it could have public transit application as well. A rail system would cuts down the use of gasoline and diesel fuel which is not getting cheaper, it cuts down on harmful carbon emissions it also removes commerce from the powerful hand of the trade unions (wonder how they like this idea?) I think this plan could be funded by foreign investment since it has a good chance of profit, and removing the burden from the Dominican tax payer.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
The roadbed of the previous system would serve as an excellent guide for such an expansion.
While that roadbed would have to be re-inforced andexpanded (narrow-gauge to standard-gauge), the engineering has already been done, thus saving some of the overall costs of construction.
Thenext item would be to marry that system with the new proposal. Although their "start-points" are geographically seperated by many miles, proper planning would alleviate thenecessity of paralleling an existing route that could be taken advantage of economically.
TB
From: Dominican Republic
how about they keep the lights on and invest in education first
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
there wont be anything to invest if there is no economy...we may need the train first
From: Dominican Republic
good point!
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Some time in thepast, I discovered a map that had those railways dipected on it. Thought I had saved it in "My Photos", but can't find it now. A Google on "Dominican Railways" didn't bring it up, so guess it's lost for now.
Jane's World Railways has a reference to the two lines, but no "free" maps available.
Another time perhaps, unless someone has a copy stored on their computer.
TB
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I have heard they were copied based on the english /india style details down to the stations.....There are photos of the double decker buses in Santo Domingo in the 40s....everybody was an anglophile in those days....The sugar trains were still running in Puerto Rico when I first moved there
Written by: DennisC, 7 Jun 2008 1:44 PM
From: United States
I remember my old folks talking about those trains, I know as a fact, it connected Santiago with
La Vega, SF Macoris, Pimentel, don't know any further than that, actually my father and mother were once in a train derail near Pimentel, when my dad was a Doctor our of the UASD in Pimentel.
Most of those rails are gone by now I understand, besides, all the new roads built thereafter, would make obsolet whatever rails are left, if any.
But definately, that could be extraordinary and should eventually connect SD with Santiago, Puerto Plata, Samana, and the East Coast, the South, well, forgive me southerners of our country,
after Azua, Bani and Barahona would be the only places worthy of trains.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
maybe some one can also confirm this ....Sanchez at one time had a train station and was a very important town until the bay became filled with silt at the Sanchez end
Written by: DennisC, 7 Jun 2008 2:21 PM
From: United States
You are correct about that, I talked to mom about it a few minutes ago, and she
also said the same, it went all the way to Sanchez, and as you also mentioned,
Sanchez was an important port in those days,
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
I am assuming that all this was built up during theTrujillo Days or shortly before.
Does anyone have a firm opinion as to why the railways wre abandonned? Did the Sugar Industry "go south", or was it purely political assignation by one party against another.
I reaall on another publication where the track was being removed by some Army major, using his troops for doing so. That was over a year ago, but I'm sure such is still going on. That narrow gauge track wouldn't suffice today since modern track is much thicker and heavier to carry the extra loads. It could be salvaged and sold for scrap, which is probably what has happened to it.
TB
From: United States, New York City
In the days before the American occupation the local rail lines in the interior where beholden to the local caudillos, for whom the railroads were a source of revenue. Sometimes "revolutions" began because control of rail lines weren't passed to expectant parties. This situation definitely had something to do with the demise of the old rail lines. History proves that rail systems are only efficient when their overall management is centralized, a situation that was impossible to produce because of the caudillo politics of yesteryear.
From: United States, NJ
I remember as a kid in ALTAMIRA, when the rail road was been dismantled in 1950 because
inefficiency,true, but in actuality the steel was needed for the weapon factory in Sancristobal. All the bridges were carried in Patanas 24 wheelers to Puerto Plata where they were put on barges.
That answers your question TexasBill?
Furthermore no train ever connected Santiago to Santo Domingo as the article implies.It went as far as Sanchez if i recall.The only tunnel ever built in DR was in LA CUMBRE, ALTAMIRA by the Belgians in 1880 along with the R/R, now been used for cars after it was widened .It also served as an American outpost in 1914 occupation.I know bcause my father used to be liked by the GI s and used to spend lots of time with them and they used to come to my grandfather's acienda to eat.and drink since they owed a TAVERNA & PULPERIA what they now call a (bodega) improperly used, since it is a copy from the NYPR by the NYDR. A bodega is a place where wine is stored in a celler.
From: United States, NJ
Adding to my article above and to TB question .Trujillo used to dismantle the existing R/R tracks to bring it over to his BATEYES to carry the cane to Rio Jaina & catarey.
Not once did he improve the existing infrastructure for the good of the people as well as the HT transmission lines to include PUERTO PLATA to SANTIAGO via IMBERT, ALTAMIRA, LUPERON.
I understand after his death ,in the late 6Oth a HW was built connecting PUERTO PLATA to Santiago for the use of sea port in PUERTO PLATA,since Santiago is land-lack & the nearest port was PUERTO PLATA 60 kms away or 45 miles .
At that time tourism had not been developed as it is now ,so the only use was merchantilism out
from PUERTO PLATA to the USA & EUROPE.
It would be nice to link the entire country by rail ,but let us start from a short line from Santiago to
Puerto Plata only 45 miles away and does not have to be electric tractions since we don't have such a surplus of EL .Let it be diesel pulled like USA.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Rather than concentrate on a Puerto Plata railway, it would be much more economical to spend the money refurbrishing the Port of Manzanillo andextending a line to there.
The logic behind such a move is obvious. The cost alone for building a rail-line from Santiago to Puerto Plata ininfinitely more expensive than the cost of the other proposition. In addition, by extending the line to the Monticristi/Manzanillo/Dajabon mileau, the encompassed hinterland is brought into the equation of rail service to a much larger geographical area with its economic enhancing results.
That, ie., a rail line exending from Santo Domingo through the heart of the country, East to West would provide a Main Line from which to further expand service to other parts of the country, North and South besides serving the main productive areas of the DR.
That's the BIG PICTURE in all this.
Leave the north Coast to the Tourist development as is currently the case.
TB
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
By segmenting and priortizing the re-construction the overall project would certainly augment existing transportation facillities andreduce the costs considerably.
Start with the Santo Domingo-Santiago segment; expand that, upon completion, to the Santiago-Monticristi/Manzanillo/Dajabon segment, then into the hinterlands of the eastern and western Cibao regions.
This could be done in a short 8-10 years with the results being rail service throughout the entire nation with all its incumbent advantages in surface transportation for the movement of people and goods to the marketplaces and points of onward transport.
Does that sound good or bad, or "can't be done"?
TB
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I t sounds very interesting ....it would certainly open agricultural areas that were uneconomical for export...and this I believe is a very good investment ....but how much will it cost?....and it is much more comfortable than riding the hound to these areas.....screw the sindicatos
From: United States, NJ
TB
What you propposed is ideal but utopian in cost and time;
The Santiago-Pto Pta including the port of Manzanillo ,Montecristi would be ideal in distance and time to start the road bed .This way you could take advantage of 2 ports to supply the Cibao region
and we are talking about 45 miles plus the Montecristi Manzanillo spur another 40 miles. This at
the long run has to be cheaper and more productive than just one container port in existance in the South .We are talking about deasel traction cheaper as opposed to electric traction of which
the country does not have the luxury to have. All together it is only 95 miles of road bed as opposed to over a thousand the way you propposed.
If you look at the NJ transit all are deasel pulling miles of freight from the So.& West of the USA thru BOGOTA less than !/4 of a mile apart in double tracks heavy gage. Another 1/2 mile west there is pass sta at Hackensack coming from upstate NY -NJ to Penn sta NYC. Penn sta Newark
to PSNYC
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Thelmo;
You speak of "Diesel Traction" vs "Electric Traction" when NEITHER is a correct assuption on your part.
To begin with it is diesel engines running electric dynamotors which provide the traction. That is theay of modern US locomotives.
The overhead wiring mode is really outmoded in today's modern transportation systems, whereas it is still being used in Europe and other areas of the world because that is what they started with, way back when.
France and Germany have what is probably the BEST interurban transportation system in the world and they use the3rd-track method on all new constructions since it has proven to be much more economical than the use of diesel-electric configurations for short hauls with frequent stops.
Any system used in the DR would have to be configured for short-haul because of theshort distances between service centers.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
By paralleling the Duarte Autopista from Santo Domingo to Monticriast and Dajabon, and branches at La Vega, Navarette and Santiago to serve the hinterlands thereto, a system would serve the entire country at a minimal cost/mile.
Take a look at a map of the DR and trace such a route, including service branches, andyou'll see what I mean.
Be positive in your analysis.
The Puerto Plata branch would be the most expensive of all because such would have to cross the mountains. It might best be served by extending a Sanchez/Nagua/Puerto Plata branch after Sanchez is served.
Bear in mind that the North Coast is primarily "Tourist Country" and not "Commercial Country" andas a result is becoming more "out of the mainstream" of commercial activity.
TB
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I concur Bill....Open up the interior for agriculture and whatever....and like I said before it beats riding the hound if adapted for pax
From: United States, NJ
TB
When we talk about" Diesel Traction" vs 3rd rail traction I know what am saying since I worked for the NYCTA for 38 yrs and all the system were on a 3rd rail dependancy.First we had to buy the electricity from LILCO or PSE&G at 13,000 volts 60 cycle,then step it down to 750v 25 cycles frequency converters to feed the rectifier to be converted to DC 3rd rail power. All this process was at an alarming lost between friction and voltage drop just to get DC power.
True what you say and i don't desagree with you about the "Diesel power" and how it is prodused, but there is no transmission lost or stepped down and then rectified for traction power or the shoes making contact with the 3rd rail to obtain its power as it is with the subways ,since all their motors are DC for more torque.The Disel produces its own power right then and turns a dynamo as you call it DC motor for its torque. There is no lost and lately it is even clean, no asbestos,lead,
copper,carbon brushes to deal with.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Thelmo:
I bow to your surperior knowledge in electrical conversion for a 3rd rail system vs a Diesel-electric in motive power.
I assume,from your commentary that you agree with e that the diesel-electric is the way to go vs the use of a 3rd rail as with the Metro in the DR.
The current Mero configuration is fine for Urban motive power, but when the rail line transitions to an Inter-urban and/or intra-national configuration, then the motive power must switch to diesel-electric for purely economical reasons as well as for surperior traction power needed for heavier loads.
Do you agree??
TB
From: United States, NJ
TB
I agree with the above 100%. Now you understand where am coming from. Not only is it more economical but safer as well outside the Metro , not having exposed 3rd rail thruout the countryside.Beside each one of those diesel is equivalent to 10,000 horsepower and it is its own electric power plant as well, each horse power is equivalent to 750 watts. They are expensive though since it has dual purpose pulling power as well as electro-mechanical torque. I some times see by us in Bogota NJ 3 engines pulling 75 cars loaded with goods for the East Coast.
That is the way to go to load the containers for export as well as for import as long as as
we have two like CAUCEDO DR for containers IF we are to compete in the DRCAFTA .
MANZANILLO & MONTECRISTI is the ideal place to make another port like CAUCEDO as well as the power plants so badly needed in the region with good HT distribution lines like those in NJ
capable to transmit 500kv lines for less lost using aluminum wires.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Thelmo:
Maybe ONE DAY the POWERS THAT BE will exteact themselves from their enclose microcosm in Santo Domingo and realize that they have a WORLD beyond the Capitol to take care of anadnurture.
While we all realize that the "Roads of Rome" didn't just happen overnight, we also realize that the problems with the electricity and transportation systems have been sadly neglected over the years.
I guess the "One thing at a time" progress is to be expected, what with the natural propencity of the politicians to "take care of their own" first, then take a look at the REST of the nation as an afterthought.
The brilliance of theMinister of Finance not withstanding, the Government need competance in all the other Ministries as well. As long as these positions are filled with "cronies" it just won't happen.
TB
From: United States
hello again, Mr Rancier. i must say i enjoyed this exchange of formidable knowledge between yourself and Texas Bill. do not stay away so long next time. heck, the vaccuum you create allows for know-nothings to proliferate on this forum.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dread the Red also refers to them as Jibaritos and Dumbminicans what a nice way to refer to the citizens of the DR
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
how disingenous of you dread to try to weasel out of your previous positions on the Jibaritos and Dumbminicans and now try to throw outsiders like yourself into the equation
From: United States
keep going in this vein , massa, if you think divide and conquer is the way to go. your slavemaster tendencies never die. after all, are you not the one who implied in a post that slavery was a good thing for Africans?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
my position on trouble makers trying to stir it up under the guise of wisdom and hot air is clear.... To me (the outsider) tribalism, ancestral rivalry, racism are all pretty much the same. These are the ills that cause so many problems in the world as a whole, "I'm better than you" thinking. Everyone has their reasons for thinking like that, but it doesn't mean its right, ...... This is true if acting as a moderator to resolve issues..... not coming to this complicated issue with a specific agenda that you apply to the other groups problems.....Above all a sense of fairness the dignity of human rights and respect of sovereignty and culture must be always kept in mind when considering this situation calling people Jibaritos and Dumbminicans is unacceptable under any circumstances....The DR does not need the politics of racial resentment imported by statesiders like you
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
The Dominican people dont need you to tell them how to conduct themselves in issues that are germane to them....Dread we thank you very much in advance for your cooperation in this matter
From: United States
you have a great deal of resentment toward african americans and ex british colonial subjects. maybe this is because they have a sense of militant opposition to oppression and persecution of people of color, which are your stock in trade. despite your protestations to the contrary, you are little more than a white supremacist neo nazi trying to hide behind a cloak of sympathetic verbage. and stop trying to act as the defender of the gates for the dominican republic. they can defend themselves quite nicely, without massa fighting for them. for a man such as yourself, who has inflicted himself upon just about every society in the western hemisphere to call someone an outsider is ludicrous. you, Goulet, are an outsider to the human race. so just get back to the golf course with your important friends and stop trying to act like the defender of the poor, whom we all know you despise. talk about phony!!!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
coming from someone who called Obama a bum for dumping nutty rev Wright your critiques are laughable.....and you really are a pompous phony UBER RACIST.....Ex Btitish Colonial Subjects ...do I detect a little national pride o great revolutionary one?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Mugabe would be proud of you... DREAD
From: Dominican Republic
Hmm, this was a nice string until dread showed up & started pissing into everyone's wind....
Texas & Themo...thanks for the information...I learned stuff.
My 2 cents worth:
1) profitability will be based on cargo = unless TEU volumes are there debating format is a mute point.
2) Cargo weighs lots which, I understand, is why cargo trains are not electric.
3) Trains can't handle the same grades as cars ergo Aut. Duarte no good. (ni Sntgo - PPta)
4) Unless investors (sighs wistfully) are willing to give 20% to P, 20% to congress, 20% to SEOPC, 20% to the "rep.", 20% to SEIC, and 20% to what ever other bumbling fool steps up to the plate...then there probably isn't a project...at least not unless Brazil wants to finance it.
Sanchez to Montecristi sounds interesting.
P.S. This project is not new...it came up last time in 2005 (if people remember) before that, 2002? Before that I seem to remember something around 97-8 & before that it came up a couple of times with Balaguer
From: United States
actually, Maldito Gringo, if you must excoriate me for something you perceive i did, the least i ask from you is some fairness. my only contribution to the thread was that i thought a raliroad was a good idea, both for passengers and freight. that was all i said at first. then i went on to congratulate Mr Rancier and Texas Bill for a lively and informative exchange. like clockwork, Gouletcolonial launches an attack upon me, referring to me as Dred the Red in the very next post.what do you expect of me, Maldito? if you read this forum, you will see that every time i post anything, Goulet responds with invective and insult. he is like a stalker. do you expect me to just lay down arms and have him run me out of the forum? if that is what you want, i am sorry to dissapoint you. i am a new york boy, and we do not take kindly to being shoved around by cowards. i already told this guy that if he brought his style of tormenting people to brooklyn, he would be eating Glocks!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
what a crybaby ...you are always the victim.....boo hoo boo hoo...you are being tormented...always the victim...there is a name for this complex you have?????????
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Now those are invitations o MAYHEM if I ever heard it.
you two children take your vendetta elsewhere, PLEASE!
You are BOTH correct in your accusations of each other, you know and you're pi$$ing in thewind if either of you think the rest of us really give a damn what you think of each other.
So, quit tryingto justify your dislike andquit while you're ahead.
TB
From: United States
hey Bill, i agree with you in everything you say, but guess what? i never started this nonsense. i have no beef with anyone else in this forum. disagreements, yes, but this is ridiculous. this guy follows me around the forum, and responds to every thing i post within 10 seconds: look it up yourself. it is always with an insult, accusation, or some childish nickname. he is a disturbed guy looking for trouble, and i am willing to help him find it. last man standing... i apologise to the forum, but i have begged this guy for a truce several times, but he wants to fight, always. so, all he has to do is name the place and show up!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
HRap dread so quick to violence.... glocks and all ....when your facade of hot air and erudition and grande education falls away you are exposed for what you are a promoter of the politics of racial resentment and an ignoramus it is so so so passe the fowl language is the last resort of trash talking fools
From: United States
enough with the talk, Goulet.... you read what i said.
From: United States
thanks, Tex, for helping me see some reason. because, after all, i do not want to remain in this frame of mind should i have a chance meeting with this guy.. the outcome would be ugly for one of us, i assure you. i bet on me...for a guy who aint willing to throw down, he sure talks a lot of smack. i'm apologising again, but my Brooklyn instincts do not stand for punks. that is why i do not go around starting trouble with strangers. no good can come of it.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
GC.
Like I said, STAY ON SUBJECT or get the hell off the web.
We're all fed up with all the rationalization and derrogatory remarks which have nothing to do with the subject being discussed.
Nor are we interested in your "druthers" and rationalizations.
Dred had the decency to apologize, why not you??? Do you have too much VANITY to do so??
Just stay on subject.
TB
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Bill I apologize for your disquiet.... I apologize for having to expose this phony..his apology was not directed at me for all his insults and threats....I dont recall calling him racial epitahs like Nazi and worse...which he thought he could provoke me to maybe even the N word ...no it was another poster who told him to shut his pie hole ....and then he drags out all his rubbish ...He is a charlatan period and resorts to name calling and vulgarities when he cant roll who he is talking to....sorry about that
From: Dominican Republic
Dred; I guess I just never take goulet's little insults seriously. I saw it as him just poking fun but your responses are paragraphs & paragraphs of diatribe. His one-liners are easy to gloss over and stay on the thread. Having said that , Ok, I see your point but f$%*, get over it . Can't you see that you just fall right into his trap. Stop being so inseccure.
Goulet; Tex is right. If you want to b$mf%^& mugabe luver start your own blog and don't put me on the distribution list.
This was one of the most interesting and educational posts I have seen in a long time and if you notice; as soon as you two started pulling each other's pigtails everybody just left...
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I had posted 10 comments on this subject before the air bag charlatan started up with his little game ...he cant take it the jerk....my apologies to those who had to be peripherally involved by just being there
From: United States
like i said, Goulet, name the spot. i am done with this foolishness. i know you do not have the balls, but maybe that is the way to end this once and for all.
From: United States
here is the deal, Gringo. i understand Gouletcolonial. he has a deep seated hatred of african americans, and he would love to run them all off the planet. check his posts and he has named just about every progressive black leader, be it jesse, al sharpton, maxine waters, malcolm, huey newton, rap brown , etc. well he aint running me off, as much as he would like to. i am done running. when i was an adolescent in high school, myself and all the other black kids who lived in my neighborhood would have to run home from school every afternoon, because, as soon as classes were over, the italian and irish kids would chase us down the road to beat the crap out of us. why, you ask? because we were different. it was only when we decided to form a posse of our own and stand up to them that the crap stopped. Gouletcolonial takes me back to those days in the sixties. he does not believe that a person of color who disagrees with his opinions should be allowed access to the internet.
From: United States
he believes we should know our places and speak when spoken to. well, been there, done that. maybe others find him quirky and funny, but i do not, because i understand his motivations. that is why i tell him that if he is man enough, he can get all this toxic stuff out of his system by a face to face situation. that way, he can either get his rocks off by kicking my ass, or run the risk of me kicking his! and , furthermore, Texas Bill, this is not an invitation to mayhem. you know Goulet is not man enough to show. empty barrels make the most noise.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Such a complex...I am speechless.... a breath of hot air...very revealing
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
so many words such a little thought
From: Dominican Republic
Dread...you hear but you do not listen. Let me spell it out for you....
I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING F$%&.
Go cry to your therapist and stop wasting my time
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From Monte Christi to Punta Cana via Puerto Plata, Confresi, Sosua, Cabarete, Samana, Miches. From Santiago to Dajabon via San Juan. The last but not least should cover the South, from Santo Domingo to San Cristobal, Azua, Bani, Barahona, Pedernales.
While that roadbed would have to be re-inforced andexpanded (narrow-gauge to standard-gauge), the engineering has already been done, thus saving some of the overall costs of construction.
Thenext item would be to marry that system with the new proposal. Although their "start-points" are geographically seperated by many miles, proper planning would alleviate thenecessity of paralleling an existing route that could be taken advantage of economically.
TB
Jane's World Railways has a reference to the two lines, but no "free" maps available.
Another time perhaps, unless someone has a copy stored on their computer.
TB
La Vega, SF Macoris, Pimentel, don't know any further than that, actually my father and mother were once in a train derail near Pimentel, when my dad was a Doctor our of the UASD in Pimentel.
Most of those rails are gone by now I understand, besides, all the new roads built thereafter, would make obsolet whatever rails are left, if any.
But definately, that could be extraordinary and should eventually connect SD with Santiago, Puerto Plata, Samana, and the East Coast, the South, well, forgive me southerners of our country,
after Azua, Bani and Barahona would be the only places worthy of trains.
also said the same, it went all the way to Sanchez, and as you also mentioned,
Sanchez was an important port in those days,
Does anyone have a firm opinion as to why the railways wre abandonned? Did the Sugar Industry "go south", or was it purely political assignation by one party against another.
I reaall on another publication where the track was being removed by some Army major, using his troops for doing so. That was over a year ago, but I'm sure such is still going on. That narrow gauge track wouldn't suffice today since modern track is much thicker and heavier to carry the extra loads. It could be salvaged and sold for scrap, which is probably what has happened to it.
TB
inefficiency,true, but in actuality the steel was needed for the weapon factory in Sancristobal. All the bridges were carried in Patanas 24 wheelers to Puerto Plata where they were put on barges.
That answers your question TexasBill?
Furthermore no train ever connected Santiago to Santo Domingo as the article implies.It went as far as Sanchez if i recall.The only tunnel ever built in DR was in LA CUMBRE, ALTAMIRA by the Belgians in 1880 along with the R/R, now been used for cars after it was widened .It also served as an American outpost in 1914 occupation.I know bcause my father used to be liked by the GI s and used to spend lots of time with them and they used to come to my grandfather's acienda to eat.and drink since they owed a TAVERNA & PULPERIA what they now call a (bodega) improperly used, since it is a copy from the NYPR by the NYDR. A bodega is a place where wine is stored in a celler.
Not once did he improve the existing infrastructure for the good of the people as well as the HT transmission lines to include PUERTO PLATA to SANTIAGO via IMBERT, ALTAMIRA, LUPERON.
I understand after his death ,in the late 6Oth a HW was built connecting PUERTO PLATA to Santiago for the use of sea port in PUERTO PLATA,since Santiago is land-lack & the nearest port was PUERTO PLATA 60 kms away or 45 miles .
At that time tourism had not been developed as it is now ,so the only use was merchantilism out
from PUERTO PLATA to the USA & EUROPE.
It would be nice to link the entire country by rail ,but let us start from a short line from Santiago to
Puerto Plata only 45 miles away and does not have to be electric tractions since we don't have such a surplus of EL .Let it be diesel pulled like USA.
The logic behind such a move is obvious. The cost alone for building a rail-line from Santiago to Puerto Plata ininfinitely more expensive than the cost of the other proposition. In addition, by extending the line to the Monticristi/Manzanillo/Dajabon mileau, the encompassed hinterland is brought into the equation of rail service to a much larger geographical area with its economic enhancing results.
That, ie., a rail line exending from Santo Domingo through the heart of the country, East to West would provide a Main Line from which to further expand service to other parts of the country, North and South besides serving the main productive areas of the DR.
That's the BIG PICTURE in all this.
Leave the north Coast to the Tourist development as is currently the case.
TB
Start with the Santo Domingo-Santiago segment; expand that, upon completion, to the Santiago-Monticristi/Manzanillo/Dajabon segment, then into the hinterlands of the eastern and western Cibao regions.
This could be done in a short 8-10 years with the results being rail service throughout the entire nation with all its incumbent advantages in surface transportation for the movement of people and goods to the marketplaces and points of onward transport.
Does that sound good or bad, or "can't be done"?
TB
What you propposed is ideal but utopian in cost and time;
The Santiago-Pto Pta including the port of Manzanillo ,Montecristi would be ideal in distance and time to start the road bed .This way you could take advantage of 2 ports to supply the Cibao region
and we are talking about 45 miles plus the Montecristi Manzanillo spur another 40 miles. This at
the long run has to be cheaper and more productive than just one container port in existance in the South .We are talking about deasel traction cheaper as opposed to electric traction of which
the country does not have the luxury to have. All together it is only 95 miles of road bed as opposed to over a thousand the way you propposed.
If you look at the NJ transit all are deasel pulling miles of freight from the So.& West of the USA thru BOGOTA less than !/4 of a mile apart in double tracks heavy gage. Another 1/2 mile west there is pass sta at Hackensack coming from upstate NY -NJ to Penn sta NYC. Penn sta Newark
to PSNYC
You speak of "Diesel Traction" vs "Electric Traction" when NEITHER is a correct assuption on your part.
To begin with it is diesel engines running electric dynamotors which provide the traction. That is theay of modern US locomotives.
The overhead wiring mode is really outmoded in today's modern transportation systems, whereas it is still being used in Europe and other areas of the world because that is what they started with, way back when.
France and Germany have what is probably the BEST interurban transportation system in the world and they use the3rd-track method on all new constructions since it has proven to be much more economical than the use of diesel-electric configurations for short hauls with frequent stops.
Any system used in the DR would have to be configured for short-haul because of theshort distances between service centers.
Take a look at a map of the DR and trace such a route, including service branches, andyou'll see what I mean.
Be positive in your analysis.
The Puerto Plata branch would be the most expensive of all because such would have to cross the mountains. It might best be served by extending a Sanchez/Nagua/Puerto Plata branch after Sanchez is served.
Bear in mind that the North Coast is primarily "Tourist Country" and not "Commercial Country" andas a result is becoming more "out of the mainstream" of commercial activity.
TB
When we talk about" Diesel Traction" vs 3rd rail traction I know what am saying since I worked for the NYCTA for 38 yrs and all the system were on a 3rd rail dependancy.First we had to buy the electricity from LILCO or PSE&G at 13,000 volts 60 cycle,then step it down to 750v 25 cycles frequency converters to feed the rectifier to be converted to DC 3rd rail power. All this process was at an alarming lost between friction and voltage drop just to get DC power.
True what you say and i don't desagree with you about the "Diesel power" and how it is prodused, but there is no transmission lost or stepped down and then rectified for traction power or the shoes making contact with the 3rd rail to obtain its power as it is with the subways ,since all their motors are DC for more torque.The Disel produces its own power right then and turns a dynamo as you call it DC motor for its torque. There is no lost and lately it is even clean, no asbestos,lead,
copper,carbon brushes to deal with.
I bow to your surperior knowledge in electrical conversion for a 3rd rail system vs a Diesel-electric in motive power.
I assume,from your commentary that you agree with e that the diesel-electric is the way to go vs the use of a 3rd rail as with the Metro in the DR.
The current Mero configuration is fine for Urban motive power, but when the rail line transitions to an Inter-urban and/or intra-national configuration, then the motive power must switch to diesel-electric for purely economical reasons as well as for surperior traction power needed for heavier loads.
Do you agree??
TB
I agree with the above 100%. Now you understand where am coming from. Not only is it more economical but safer as well outside the Metro , not having exposed 3rd rail thruout the countryside.Beside each one of those diesel is equivalent to 10,000 horsepower and it is its own electric power plant as well, each horse power is equivalent to 750 watts. They are expensive though since it has dual purpose pulling power as well as electro-mechanical torque. I some times see by us in Bogota NJ 3 engines pulling 75 cars loaded with goods for the East Coast.
That is the way to go to load the containers for export as well as for import as long as as
we have two like CAUCEDO DR for containers IF we are to compete in the DRCAFTA .
MANZANILLO & MONTECRISTI is the ideal place to make another port like CAUCEDO as well as the power plants so badly needed in the region with good HT distribution lines like those in NJ
capable to transmit 500kv lines for less lost using aluminum wires.
Maybe ONE DAY the POWERS THAT BE will exteact themselves from their enclose microcosm in Santo Domingo and realize that they have a WORLD beyond the Capitol to take care of anadnurture.
While we all realize that the "Roads of Rome" didn't just happen overnight, we also realize that the problems with the electricity and transportation systems have been sadly neglected over the years.
I guess the "One thing at a time" progress is to be expected, what with the natural propencity of the politicians to "take care of their own" first, then take a look at the REST of the nation as an afterthought.
The brilliance of theMinister of Finance not withstanding, the Government need competance in all the other Ministries as well. As long as these positions are filled with "cronies" it just won't happen.
TB
Texas & Themo...thanks for the information...I learned stuff.
My 2 cents worth:
1) profitability will be based on cargo = unless TEU volumes are there debating format is a mute point.
2) Cargo weighs lots which, I understand, is why cargo trains are not electric.
3) Trains can't handle the same grades as cars ergo Aut. Duarte no good. (ni Sntgo - PPta)
4) Unless investors (sighs wistfully) are willing to give 20% to P, 20% to congress, 20% to SEOPC, 20% to the "rep.", 20% to SEIC, and 20% to what ever other bumbling fool steps up to the plate...then there probably isn't a project...at least not unless Brazil wants to finance it.
Sanchez to Montecristi sounds interesting.
P.S. This project is not new...it came up last time in 2005 (if people remember) before that, 2002? Before that I seem to remember something around 97-8 & before that it came up a couple of times with Balaguer
you two children take your vendetta elsewhere, PLEASE!
You are BOTH correct in your accusations of each other, you know and you're pi$$ing in thewind if either of you think the rest of us really give a damn what you think of each other.
So, quit tryingto justify your dislike andquit while you're ahead.
TB
Like I said, STAY ON SUBJECT or get the hell off the web.
We're all fed up with all the rationalization and derrogatory remarks which have nothing to do with the subject being discussed.
Nor are we interested in your "druthers" and rationalizations.
Dred had the decency to apologize, why not you??? Do you have too much VANITY to do so??
Just stay on subject.
TB
Goulet; Tex is right. If you want to b$mf%^& mugabe luver start your own blog and don't put me on the distribution list.
This was one of the most interesting and educational posts I have seen in a long time and if you notice; as soon as you two started pulling each other's pigtails everybody just left...
I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING F$%&.
Go cry to your therapist and stop wasting my time