skin him good Leonel.....bring back those wheelbarrows full of cash....He is giving his peoples money away like a drunken sailor....I guess thats better than having him send FARC to us like fidelito would have done....Look at the photo leonel is saying "Dont worry amigito hugo you are my buddy " and then " Where are the suitcases with the cash amigito hugo "

I don't get this.

First Teflon Fernandes buy's out Shell's 50% stake then they want to sell an interest to Hugo Chavez.

Why dosen't the DR just change the Dominican Flag for the Venezuelan Flag because at this rate the country is being sold out to Venezuela for oil in order for Teflon Fernandez to maintain his presidency.

Jimi that was the plan..refinery was a bucket of bolts now nutty hugo is going to loan the money to renovate it

belial Cuban national baseball team crushed by USA college kids ..U.S. national baseball team beats Cuba for title

Cal State Fullerton's Jared Clark homered in the top of the sixth to break a 1-1 tie as the U.S. national team defeated Cuba 4-1 today in the championship game of the 24th Haarlem Baseball Week in the Netherlands.

The U.S. improved to 14-0 on the 2008 tour and finished 7-0 in the Haarlem Baseball Week.

The Cuban team is the same team, minus one player, that won the silver medal in the 2006 World Baseball Classic and the gold medal in the 2004 Athens Olympics. It also is the same team that will compete in the Beijing Games.

Goulet, how about mentioning the sports in which Cuba is going to kick some American ass? how about the 100 meters hurdles? how about some weight divisions in boxing? the olympics is not a one-sport event..besides, it is early yet. anything can happen. remember the winter olympics in which the Jamaican bobsled team beat both American sleds, even though the americans were using the latest technology sleds designed by Geoff Bodine up in Chemung, New York?

The cuban cheering section is checking in Hola dread

actually, i am the caribbean cheering section. i love it when sprinters from the caribbean kick everyone´s ass; not only america´s. watch the panamanian long jumper, sprinters from trini, cuba, the bahamas, jamaica. watch the dominican 400 meters hurdler. some ass is going to get kicked. we are not interested in javelin and pistol target shooting...we like running guys legs off. then we will leave it to ethiopia and kenya to assassinate them in the distance events.

you got that right ...but assassinate is a poor choice of words dread after all and very unsporstmanlike.... I have never heard it used on ESPN

Dred and GC;
This thread isabout Leonel's suggestion that Venezuela buy into the the Dominican Refinery;

NOT ABOUT THE DAMN BASEBALL TEAMS NOR OTHER SPORTS.

QUIT STEALING THE BLOG, PEOPLE. KEEP IT ON TRACK.

TB

sorry ,Tex. i stand corrected.

TB ...Shell's flag or Venezuela's flag, not a huge difference. At least with your neighbor you have some leverage by virtue of being neighbors, whereas to a multinational as large as shell I'm sure we are just another island. Foreign capital is foreign capital, and taking Venezuela's money prob brings more perks instead of demands.

Manhattanite;

I agree with you in principle, but would advise extreme caution when dealing with Chavez.
His track record isn'tthe best when taking into consideration his political leanings andbellicose attitude towards nations which embrace Capitalism.
What I'm saying is this: We have no way of knowing what his long range agenda amounts to; it may be to indebt all of LA/C so deeply so as to render their economies subservient to his capriciousness, which is notably evident by his own words.
I don't trust his altruistic rhetoric, reference his actions and his history.
I think you understand what I'm referring to.
It's not just his attitude toward the US alone, it is his overall thrust toward indebting the LA/C countries to his political advantage.
With all the oil at his disposal, he is a BIG Fish in a relatively small pond as opposed to the other operators in the Petroleum arena.

TB

His goals are the same as Castros in the 60s and 70s what Castro tried with guerillas and revolution Hugo tries by using bribes and largesse...there is no altruism here

forgive me for asking this question, Texas Bill, but with whom should the DR do business, if not chavez. ? do you think that any political leader offers a more moral point of departure? George Bush? the Arab skeiks? the Nigerians? i have always wondered if the DR gets any oil from Trinidad, and, if not , why not. i sincerely hope it is not a product of regional bragging rights; after all, we would not want to be dependent on a little island for something as important as energy; it is better to deal with the big players.

"i have always wondered if the DR gets any oil from Trinidad"

Trinidad has no oil. Everybody knows that except the whinners

Everybody knows they have refineries

you see what happens when any and everybody is allowed access to this forum? we get ignoramus types like anthony c posting his colossal stupidity for all to witness. what is more powerful a statement is that instead of checking his facts, the ignoramus makes a doctrinaire pronouncement¨everybody knows trinidad has no oil¨. well, anthonyc, if trinidad has no oil, can you tell me what it is that they are putting into the 120,000 oil barrels per day? as a matter of fact, my uninformed Wall Street Executive wannabe, eveyone but you knows that Trinidad has both oil and natural gas, along with bitumen. jeezus, dude. are there no books where you live?

besides, what the hell is a ¨whinner¨ is it the opposite of a loosseer? if you cannot be original, at least be accurate. ask Goulet how to spell the word. God help us..the philistines are upon us!

Dred:

Trinidad's refinery is owned and operated by Amarada-Hess andpurchases it's oil from the same place as all others.
I know of no oil fields in the vicinity of Trinidad andVenezuela in that part of the Caribbean/Atlantic area.
Please enlighten me to the contrary, since my knowledge of the area's geography is sketchy at best.
And, dred, I didn't say that the DR shouldn't do business with Chavez, but that they should be VERY CAREFUL of any long term agreements with him, given his extreme left-leaning attitude.
I'm just a capitalist at heart and don't trust anyone with a communistic attitude.
Leonel is looking for any short-term solutions that can be used to resolve theproblems his country is facing. I really don't blame him for taking advantage of the solutions offered by Chavez, but would certainly advise extreme caution when dealing with him or his Administration.

TB

Dred:
I stand corrected about the Trinidad Oil Question.
Here is a link to the question.

http://www.photius.com/countries/....and_tobago/economy/petroleum.html

It seems that there is quite a history that I was not familiar with.
Mea Culpa.

TB

The little 30,000 barrel refinery, formerly Shell Oil's pork barrel, is almost useles for the $85 billion GDP of the DR. The DR was tied up for two years with Shell Oil blocking progress on an expanded or new refinery.

The DR needs at least 120,000 barrel refinery to take care domestic oil consumption at massively reduced costs.

Nicaragua is getting 125,000 barrel refinery. Cuba already got a renovated 60,000 barrel one in Dec. 2007 which is being expanded to 120,000 barrels by the fall of 2009.

Ecuador is getting whopping 300,000 barrel refinery, the size of a small town. The groundbreaking is today.

At Maracaibo, Honduras, a brand-new member of Petrocaribe, saw what DR, a founding member, was up to.

So, Honduras jumped in and asked for refinery.

Dominica, with only a 73,000 population, was gonna get 10,000 barrel one. But little Dominica fled after the imperialists barked and growled at the proposed refinery.

But St. Vincent wants Dominica's refinery.

Venezuela has the world's largest refinery at Paraguana, a monstrous 940,000 barrel one and there are other huge assets in the refining industry in Venezuela.

But lamentably, the mass of Venezuela's refining assets are mis-located in either USA or in USA's NATO allies. All of which are ruled by visceral thieves as the 2,300,000 barrels of oil they steal everyday from Iraq attests.

The thieves make no secret of their intentions to steal oil from Iran and Venezuela.

Acting through Exxon Oil, the US imperialist thieves have already virtually seized some Venezuela refinery and other assets in the USA and US colonies, UK, and on Dutch territory and colonies. The UK courts recently lifted the Exxon seizure, but money-snatching in the USA and by the Dutch remain in effect.

Venezuela is trying to re-locate its refining capacity to LA/C with a modicum of sovereignty and away from the money-snatching hands of US imperialists and their NATO behind-kissers.

SOME JUICY CITGO ASSETS in the USA

Lake Charles, Louisiana
Corpus Christi, Texas
Lemont, Illinois
Savannah, Georgia (Asphalt)
Paulsboro, New Jersey (Asphalt)


SOME JUICY PDVSA ASSETS in LA/C

Bahamas - PDVSA is the sole owner of this HUGE oil storage terminal in the Caribbean.

US Virgin Islands - jointly owned by PDVSA and Hess Oil Virgin Islands Corp.

Curacao - PDVSA leases the Isla refinery in the Netherlands Antilles.

Bonaire 100% owned by PDVSA storage facility Bonaire Netherlands Antilles.

0000

There are assets in Europe that the US imperialists and NATO behind-kissers are stealing.

Under pre-1998 servile regimes in Caracas, US imperialists concentrated a large protion of Venezuela's refining capacity in the USA and US colonies and they don't welcome the expansion of Venezuela refining capacity to LA/C countries looking capital and investment on a large scale.

"This is good for us, but not for you," the imperialists tell the LA/C.

Yes, Belial, and then came Chavez, who NATIONALIZED all the petro-industrial facillities and paid pennies on the dollar for those assets.
Now, who is the "imperialist pig" you so viciously refer to?
Chavez has a bottomless hunger for foreign assets in his country that he can steal without fear of retribution.
Since he has done just that these companies have taken the LEGAL way of recovering SOME of their investors dollars by taking over Venezuela's assets in the US and elsewhere.
Chavez failed to remember that "if you're gonna do the crime, you're gonna do the time".
Oh, and don't forget Chavez's supportfor FARC, which is a terrorist organization responsible for thousands of killings and kidnappings of innocent foreigners just to get money to pay for and supply their "Glorius Revolution". Just a bunch of murdering bastards who haven't a soul.

TB

As a former resident of St Croix the capacity is over one half million barrels a day of that crap Venezuela produces the cost of the cracker installed in the early 80s was almost a billion dollars and I am surprised that Trinidad was off your radar ....that is the origin of 40s song "drinkin rum and coca cola" workin for the yanqui dollar by Andrews Sisters...St Croix was listed for many years as worlds largest in guinness book of records

"...St Croix was listed for many years as worlds largest in guinness book of records"

oooo

Yes, it was. But now refining capacity is a really, really a big deal because countries and companies sell it as if it were oil itself.

The US colony in the VI still has one of the biggest plants in the world.

But with Venezuela with an almost 1,000,000 barrel refinery and South Korea with 820,000 barrel one and huge plants being built in China and India often with Venezuelan cooperation, the plant on the US colony of the Virgin Island doesn't seem as august as it once did although it is still huge by any standard.

In any case, the US imperialists who oppress the VI are trying to steal the plant with Hess' collaboration.

how do you like them apples

"Another outcome of the summit was the establishment of a fund based on a contribution of half a dollar per barrel of oil exported by Venezuela to countries not participating in the Bolivarian Republic’s cooperation agreements, and are priced above $100 a barrel. The fund will be devoted to agricultural initiatives within member nations in order to develop food security" Granma reports.

http://www.granma.cu/INGLES/2008/julio/lun14/petrocaribe.html

Since most of the LA/C countries participate in either Petrocaribe or Petroamerica ... the main Bolivarian Republic’s cooperation agreements ... the snippet quoted above means that Hugo wants to effectively charge the USA, the EU, and some Asian markets for the food security in the Caribbean.

Given the unusual degree of sovereignty that Venezuela exercises over its natural resources, this is do-able.

It's easy to tack on 50 cents to a barrel at $100 a barrel to fight famine.

What a splendid idea.

I'll tell you.

the US federal gov spends 85000 dollars yes 85 thousand dollars on every man woman and child in the USVI per annum ...... thats oppression ? with no unemployment unless you are a druggy or a drunk and a per annum income of over 20 thousand a year ......thats oppression ?....The Virgin Islands....it says Americas Paradise on the license plates.....unlike Cuba "the Caribbean Gulag "...and Raul says " I put the U in Gulag "

"The heads of state ... agreed to the creation of a PETROCARIBE Council of Agricultural Ministers which will devote special attention to food production," Granma reports.

These guys will decide how to cut up the money and what projects to fund.

If LF is on the ball, DR will try to be big and important in the PETROCARIBE Council of Agricultural Ministers, because the DR knows a lot about producing, processing, packaging, and distributing food.

PETROCARIBE Council of Agricultural Ministers is where the DR and LF can really shine. The only regional rivals of the DR in food are the Brazilians, Argentines, and the Mexicans. None of the regional rivals belong to Petrocaribe.

Venezuela sells about 2,700,000 barrels a day and about 60% goes to non-Petrocaribe and non-Petroamerica members.

2,700,000 barrel per day X 60% = 1,620,000 barrels per day

1,620, 000 barrels per day X 0.50 cents per barrel = $810,000 per day for Petrocaribe food council

In his book "Gusher of Lies: The Dangerous Delusions of 'Energy Independence,' " Robert Bryce says Brazil's energy success has little to do with its much-discussed ethanol production and much to do with its increased oil production, the vast majority of which comes from off Brazil's shore. Investor's Business Daily reports that Brazil, "which recently made a major oil discovery almost in sight of Rio's beaches," has leased most of the world's deep-sea drilling rigs. .....soon we will drill off florida if we can find any oil rigs

The problem is that LF has to rely or may have to rely on bourgeois farmers who believe corruption is the preferred or the ideal way of life.

If bourgeois farmers get into or even near to the Petrocaribe food council and its $800,000 per day, they will go into a frenzy and steal like addicts.

We been dealing with this guy for a while, hopefully the president will negotiate for us to refine his oil but we keep half of the final product (gas) and ship the rest to whoever he wants.

Why not skin the rubes and TAKE what we desire ? what ever happened to just planting a flag and 'claiming' something ? Ahhh... the good old days....

In these joint refinery deals with Venezuela, the stakes are usually 51% for the local country, here, the DR, and 49% for Venezuela.

This 51% - 49% breakdown governs how profits are cut up. But not so much capital contribution because Venezuela often contributes more capital to the refinery venture than the local.

But refining revenue is operational income, not profits. So, the 51%- 49% breakdown doesn't apply.

When the local charges a fee, either in cash or oil, for the use of its excess refining capacity, a 50% fee on all oil refined is rather rich ... or steep, to say the least.

A fee of maybe 1% or 2% is closer to the norm in the industry. This is a lot of money.

DR main benefit is it doesnt' have to pay somebody else to refine its stuff.

Shell Oil, the stinking private sector, kept the refining capacity low for 35 years, so that Shell could IMPORT its own refined products at the highest prices to supplement what was refined in the DR.

"Why not skin the rubes and TAKE what we desire ? what ever happened to just planting a flag and 'claiming' something ? Ahhh... the good old days...."

oooo

That's John McCain's platform today.

But the majority of the US people subscribe to an ethics that includes the principle of justice.

In your case roadside justice and forty wacks....off to the gulag for you ...and mandatory reeducation

"But the majority of the US people subscribe to an ethics that includes the principle of justice."

True but not your warped form of justice.

Without charging the PDVSA a penny, there are number of ways that Venezuela can tack 50 cents on to a barrel of oil to fight famine, especially if the price of a barrel stays above $100, .

The beautiful thing about the idea of an extra 50 cents on a barrel before the speculative transactions at petroleum exchanges is that the 50 cents disarms the pro-imperialist slime and free market trash who apologize for the speculators tacking on as much as $60 or $70 to a barrel.

How can this bourgeois slime argue that a speculative $60 or $70 tacked needlessly on to a barrel is OK ... because it enriches the imperialist bourgeoisie, but an extra 50 cents for the hungry is intolerable.

yeah he needs the money to bribe other politicos and finance FARC the slime ball that he is

" 'But the majority of the US people subscribe to an ethics that includes the principle of justice,' Belial asserted.

"True but not your warped form of justice," anthonyC replied.

oooo

My form of justice rests on the definition of justice as the principle that man must form true opinions about the share of good or bad things that he and others deserve and take the actions necessary to impart this share of the good or of the bad to himself and to others.

There is nothing warped about my form of justice.

The bourgeois form of justice ... the dearest thing in your soul ... holds that if true opionions are unfavorable, then we must resort to false opinions about the share of good or bad we deserve. And under all circumstances, we must make sure that we get everything that is good and others get everything that's bad.

It seems to me that your rotten bourgeois form of justice is warped.

Up against the wall justice for you ...you have waterboarded us with your drivel all afternoon

"Up against the wall justice for you ...you have waterboarded us with your drivel all afternoon"

oooo

What is your absolutely final point of tolerance?

Belial open this ...you will be amused.... http://www.dilbert.com/

Wow what a thread, I had the pleasure of working in the St. Croix refinery in the mid-80's and it is fantastic. As far as Venezuela goes, where I worked for 4 years, Citgo is where they make their money. Every thing sold in country is so heavily subsidized it is almost given away. In the 90's four plants were built outside of Barcelona on the NE part of the country each one cost 3 billion USD to build and Hugo has confiscated every one of them. They are not refineries but upgraders, they take the extra-heavy crude and take out the sulpher and coke and make it a extra light crude that can be refined almost anywhere. PDVSA made a deal with Amerada Hess for the refinery in St. Croix because it was one of the few in the world that could handle the heavy crude. Beware of Hugo Rafael Chavez Frias, he is out for himself and may appear to be altruistic in methods but only if it benefits him. Trinidad=Oil and Gas, huge deposits largest grassroots LNG plant in the Hemisphere. Plain and

Simple is that Venezuela lacks the refining capacity in country and has developed partnerships with other that can refine that heavy crude. And most important as with other latin countries they build grand facilities and 1 year later the question comes up........ Maintenance, what Maintenance, we don't have money for maintenance. During the last year there have been fires in the refineries in Cardon, Tablasco and Puerto la Cruz. It is just a matter of time before there is a real problem in the supply chain and where will petrocaribe be.

Tex I pobably met you at Baileys or the Comanche or the Top Hat which was Leon Hess favorite restaurant or maybe even The Glandstand....But prior to hurricane Hugo not nutty hugo St Croix was very nice place to live

Hey GC, I was there prior to and after Hugo and the Commanche and Chart House were favorites of mine. And you are right it was fantastic prior to but not so much after. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Hess and working closely with Hank Wright, B.J. O'Brian and the gang.

If you mean judge OBrian he was a friend of mine..Farrely and Hodge good old Rum and Coke...Derek speaks spanish and sometimes visits the DR....all those Hess guys used to love Bent and Hannah at the Top Hat....I was always sitting at the bar at the Comanche getting hammered watching the show with Dicky B....you probably know Frank Duggan ...Duggans Reef.....it reminds me of St Patricks Day in St Croix how wacky was that

"Belial open this ...you will be amused.... http://www.dilbert.com/," GC steers.

0000000000000000000000000

"I can't put you on the management fast track until I confirm that your moral compass is broken," the Dilbert Strip for July 16 says hilariously.
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-07-16/

Right O!

Smokin'.

In what field of management do you have the greatest expertise -- securities fraud, accounting fraud or commodities fraud?

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"A nun, a CEO and a scientist are in a burning building. You can only save one of them. Which one do you save?" the Dilbert Strip for July 16 asks.

Well, I want the CEO's job.

The scientist probably set the building on fire.

What does the nun look like?

Excellent

GC,

First time on the island I was walking twords Duggans reef and saw the sign by the travellers palm and Frank underneth it with his pipe in his mouth and what a sight that was. I used to like to go to the Hotel Caravelle and watch the solo artists they brought in as well into the rain forrest and drink babash with George at the domino club. Good ole days

" Maintenance, what Maintenance, we don't have money for maintenance. During the last year there have been fires in the refineries in Cardon, Tablasco and Puerto la Cruz. It is just a matter of time before there is a real problem in the supply chain and where will petrocaribe be."

oooo

Here, in Houston, it seems like every three months a refinery blows up.

In 2002, the bourgeoisie, its middle class tail, and reactionary workers booby-traped PDVSA refineries.

The revolutionary workers behind their red flag and in their red T-shirts marched into the plants, disarmed them, fixed a lot of things the counter-revolutionaries sabotaged, and started the refineries up again.

They did what many believed they could never do.

They have more money than ever to maintain things. But there always problems.

The talk about inefficiency of their operations largely arises from Venezuela decision to respect OPEC production quotas, unlike "efficient" previous governments.

Wow the Montpelier domino club ....by Sunday afternoon the pigs were drunk and passed out from all the beer that was bought for them ...that was the best beer promotion I ever saw...Until the dogooders complained and said it was cruel to get old Buster the pig loaded so the they had to give him Odoules non alchoholic beer ...that aint no life for a pig

"and where will petrocaribe be."

oooo

Above, I posted the 16 resolutions approved at the Petrocaribe meeting last week .

You'll find that about half of the resolutions deal with the development of alternative and renewable sources of energy in the Caribbean.

This is where Petrocaribe will be, if US imperialist aggression does not smash the initiative..

Belial,
Wow, where do you get the stuff that your smoking?

"They have more money than ever to maintain things. But there always problems."

Must be why when you go to the Seguro Social hospital the doctor comes in and hands you a list of medications that you must buy because they don't have them, or why a worker from the refinery goes to buy groceries he cant afford the basic food basket because his salary does not cover it, the streets in the cities are in terrible shape, the national Hwy 9 that runs from Caracas to Cumana in places needs to be driven with a 4-wheel drive because of the holes, bridges that are going to collapse for lack of Maintenance. I know of 2 of the upgraders that I spoke about earlier that have had the yearly routine maintenance extended yet another 6 months for a second time because of lack of planning and funds since they have been expropiated. The evil foreign companies are not going to foot the bill

since the plant is not theirs anymore. In puerto la cruz over the last 3 days there have been 9 murders 80 to 100 a weekend is normal for a country with the same population as Texas. Thank god for Hugo and his revolution, no work=no pay=discontent=murder=death and the collapse of society. Sadly he has been in power for 10 years now, you tell me that that type of government works??? And he has chased out all of the Multi-national corporations so who is fighting him. His own corruption and greed just like the DR the people who have are the government and politicitations and every one else has to do without because he has to send gasoline to Fidel, Evo, Ortega and Correa. By the way it has been determined there is not a cure for what you have so you will have to suffer a long and painful lfe wondering why people dont get your point of view. Even the people who practice it know it does not work, i.e. Hugo, Evo, Ortega, Correa ,Raul and Fidel.

You are gonna make him cry Tex

GC,

You know that buster turned out to be a Sow, one of the other oddities of that Island.

As far as making Belial cry, that is their problem, they never have a solution that does not involve taking something from somebody to make them happy and it ALWAYS somebody elses fault.

Before the revolution, the bourgeois and pro-imperialist regimes in Caracas routinely exceeded OPEC production quotas, driving down the price of a barrel of oil.

This excess production was the basis for the claim that PDVSA, under the auspices of the bourgeoisie, was efficient and well maintained.

The previous bourgeois management argued that the more barrels we sell, the more money we make. "Simple as that," they said.

US imperialists applauded loudly "Down with OPEC and rag-wearing Arabs."

"We need more supply than demand for the world economy to be well-oiled."

In reality, the opposite was the truth. The more "efficient and well maintained" they were, the less money they made.

Hugo cut production to comply with OPEC quotas, helping supply to correspond with demand.

Hence, he's not efficient and well maintained.

Rag Wearig Arabs that is not very PC belial we prefer Desert People....soon you will be calling them Sand Monkeys and other slurs you should be ashamed belial

why, Goulet old chap..you do seem to be well versed in those pejoratives...hmmmmm

Belial,
Ok you've driveled so WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Now you don't like Hugo and his revolutionary government. You cant have it both ways. Either that system of government works or it does'nt. Lets see how many exist in the world today, ummm Cuba(people trying to leave everyday), Venezuela, (Ditto), Boliva (States voting for autonomy from the government), Ecuador (he tried but can't hoodwink the people). Lets see who was and saw the light, Russia(capitalist now, Chile(was a dictatorship now the hottest economy in South America), Italy (was Facist now capitalist even elected a former porn star to the government) China(still some influance but open to capitalism-hottest economy in Asia). Go figure you let the people have a choice, options and they inheritly do what is right and amazingly it works, hhhuuuuuuuummm.

Belial,

One more thing,

" The revolutionary workers behind their red flag and in their red T-shirts marched into the plants, disarmed them, fixed a lot of things the counter-revolutionaries sabotaged, and started the refineries up again."

Production still has not reached pre-strike levels of 4 years ago. Platts gas daily, rigzone, ETC. et al. They cant do it if you dont fix what is not working. You can only boil 4 gallons of water in a 4 gallon pot, if you want more hot water you get another pot that is bigger or buy a second one.

"Production still has not reached pre-strike levels of 4 years ago."

oooo

Either they don't want to do it or they can't.

Aramco and Pemex listened to "expert advice" of the US imperialists about output for decades.

Then suddenly they discovered that they had worn out their wells and whole fields that were once the largest in the world were dying or dead in order to support extreme squandering of oil by rich capitalist countries.

Now, the imperialists want the Pemex to pay them $20 billion to bring back to life brain-dead Cantarell.

There is a guy in Houston named Matt Simmons who is real good when he talks about killing a well and bringing dead wells back to life.

Ghost wells.

PDVSA may want to extend the life of its wells more than support wasteful patterns of oil consumption in the rich capitalist countries.

The PDVSA's 2.3 to 2.7 million barrels a day helps to discipline USA, EU, and big Asia about its oil wastefulness.

Texasshoe, please indulge my curiosity for a fleeting moment, if you will. what the hell do you mean when you say that if people are given a choice, they inherently do what is right? what does that mean, conceptually? i might be mistaken, but i do believe that the kids who shot up Colombine, for example, had a choice. as a matter of fact, many choices. and if you believe that the former Soviet Union is some picnic because a few oligarchs are crawling in money, go ask the people who are starving.

HI Dred,
You are correct they did have a choice and they did not make a wise one. However the vast majority of people when presented with options will do "the right thing". Having been in the oil business for 25+ years I can speak to Russia as well. Yes there are poor there as well, but they are better off than under the communist goverment that was replaced, at least now they have options. I once worked with a man from Poland who told me " When I was younger and was out with my parents and we saw a line we stood in it. Had no idea if they were alloting toilet paper, fish or fruit but you stood in it because if you did not you did without". I have a home in Puerto la Cruz Venezuela that is rented to my Sister-in Law and visit frequetly, how can a country such a Venezuela where coffee grows wild not have coffe for sale in the stores, or sugar cane grows like weeds by the road but there is a shortage of sugar. You can go to the store with the intent to spend $500 USD cont....

Colombine and CCCP wow thats a stretch ....In the old days it was " Be at the train station in the morning bring warm clothes and a shovel " and now what ?

and can not buy milk because there is none. Thee are shortages of harina pan in the stores the very basic supply to make arepas (food of the masses). My own personnal opinion however humble it might be it that there have been various forms of government in this world since its' inception and some of them over and over again have been proven to not work. Communisim, Facisim and socialism are all for the masses but someone has to run it, they need help, then the helper need help and before you know it you have a whole class of 'we know better, because we are your government so do what I say and not what I do" and once agin you have the haves and have nots that have no options, choices or hope. Given that opportunity MOST people do the right thing.

thank you for taking the time to reply to me, texasshoe. actually, i have a slightly different take on the failure of socialistic systems. in order for them to work, there has to be a more altruistic, less selfish set of inputs. they are, after all, systems designed for collective betterment, unlike capitalism, which is a dod-eat -dog arrangement. sadly, mankind is more inclined toward capitalism, because man is by nature selfish. it is like putting a square peg in a round hole. so, as in the case of the former soviet union, the demise was brought about by the greed and corruption of the very `people charged with the responsiblity for making things work, because they were human, and desperately flawed. if there is a knock on socialist ideals it is that they are unrealistic in terms of application, because man, by nature is immutable scum!

The difference between Dred and Belial are quite striking, Dred engages conversation and exchange of ideas, belial on the other hand believe that everyone but him is the root of all evil and anything the happens to us that upsets our confort zone is a result of of our selfishness.

Belial,
if I remember correctly both PEMEX and ARAMCO are controlled and owned by the respective governments of Mexico and Saudi. No one forced them to accept advise from a third party regarding their resources. In Mexico the Cantarell field has HUGE, HUGE production facilities in it and yes it has been steadily declining for some time, but for some reason they did no further exploration but relied on what they had in hand. Surely you can not blame any one but them for their myopic views. If I have the technology to revive what they desire and they do not ,it is right that they should pay me to perform my job, if they want my services. if not find it elsewhere. Fairly simple in my book.

Dred,
Touche' and well stated

Dread immutable scum ...you need to improve your self image....look the magic word is TOTALITARIAN...and Capitalism has less of it so it is better

actually, Goulet, i was referring ,almost specifically, to you. thank you for your kind remarks, texasshoe. and Goulet, until both systems can be optimally implemented, you cannot make a value judgement as to which is better. if we both have cars, but i have no gasoline, you cannot brag to people that your car is faster!

"and can not buy milk because there is none. Thee are shortages of harina pan in the stores the very basic supply to make arepas (food of the masses). "

oooo

The bourgeoisie are still very much involved in food production and distribution.

But revolutionary workers are growing stronger organizationally and ideologically everyday.

In 2002, bourgeoisie used public starvation as a means to overthrow the revolutionary government. At the beginning of the capitalist lockout, ALL deliveries of food were stopped.

Like with the refineries, the revolutionary workers sprang into action, seizing 18-wheelers, loading up food at the ports and farms, opening hundreds of huge warehouses, and opening thousands of stores call Mercals, and selling food directly to the masses without bourgeois middlemen.

The capitalist genocide was defeated; they called off the their lockout.

Latter, the Mercals proved unabled organizationally to take over the whole of food distribution.

"Latter, the Mercals proved unabled organizationally to take over the whole of food distribution."

I know that a mind made up is just that, PDVSA has a subsidary which is the Mercals. They have no milk either, no coffee or sugar. When you are allowed to buy your one chicken per family they dip your pinky in red ink so you can not go to another to buy another chicken for you family of six. There was a new milk processing plant built in Barrinas 2 years ago to help the local economy. Great job Hugo, plant is finished but still sits idle as there are no dairy farmer nearby to send it milk. A country like Venezuela with all of its great wealth controlled by the government imports 70% of all foodstuffs consumed because the same governement has destroyed the agricultural business by taking over all the lands used and given it to the people. Ever run a farm, no, thats great your now a land owner.

PDVSA, the government oil company, stepped in with its own food distribution network, supplementing the work of the Mercals, showing superior executive skill and demonstrating a tough proletarian entrepreneurial spirit.

In 2007, the workers -- revolutionary, reactionary, and flip-flops -- marched directly into the food question and battle, organizing 40,000 worker or communal councils where the food question is at the top of the agenda.

The increasingly proletarian state gives to worker councils billions of dollars to self-solve their problems, according to their own priorities.

The gains in nutrition have been wondrous.

But much remains to be done. And the workers of Venezuela are doing it.

until both systems can be optimally installed..... dread you are dreaming ....you have doubts ...did you not learn anything...... one enslaves like your buddies Comrade Bob or Uncle Joe or Fidel and Kim Il the other for the most part allows people to be rewarded according to their worth and work

CIA found that poverty in Venezuela drop from about 55% in 1998 when Hugo rose to power to 37% by 2005.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....-world-factbook/geos/ve.html#Econ

Today, it is officially in Venezuela about 26% , but it reality it's lower that the 20s.

There are still shortages and problems in the production, importation, and distribution of food in Venezuela, but workers taking matters into their own hands have made enormous progress in 10 years.

Nutrition is a key indicator of poverty. It is impossible for poverty to be more that cut in half in 10 years without the plunge in malnutrition.

The CIA, like the WB, IMF, and UN, defines poverty as living on less than $2 per day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty

When we consider the value of universal health care and education alone in Venezuela, very few people live off of less than $2 per day.

There are still problems with nutrition and housing but great advances have been made.

great advances in your dreams

As long as there is scarcity in the world, even if every last man was an altruist in good faith some people would end up with the short end of the stick. And some of these people will always choose to perceive corruption and evil in the other men, regardless of the rationality or intentions of those men's actions. This is not to say that in reality all men are altruists, some are clearly greedy. But you must allow that in reality men of good faith and good intentions can still clash; in many situations there must be a winner and a loser. "All men are immutable scum" is a very Christian sentiment. But is the wolf who preys on sheep to feed its pups evil or an altruist? How about 'all men are immutably men' , because just like the wolf men are acting in accordance with their nature today...no need for absolutistic condemnation.

A just person is not an altruist.

Justice isn't altruism.

An unjust person feels and believes he is altruistic when he occasionally lapses into a just act. But he is mistaken. An unjust person often absolves himself of shame and blame when he refuses to do what he is supposed to because he believes keeping his word is altruistic.

Altruism happens when a person does something right when he has no duty to do it.

Justice happens when a person does something right and he is obliged by some kind of deal or his word to do it.