SANTIAGO.- The presence of Haitians grows beyond working in rice, coffee, and cacao plantations and construction, where they are already more than their Dominican pars, to the large cities and in towns, as students of wealthy families come to colleges in this city, as evidenced by the growth of the student population in Santiago’s ISA, PUCMM, and UTESA universities, with 1,549 men and women registered.
Most Haitians in UTESA study medicine, engineering, business administration and to a less extent, law, whereas in the PUCMM the 600 Haitians registered, in addition to medicine and engineering, also study hotel administration and tourism.
Dozens of Haitians are also registered in other institutions, such as the O&M, technological and languages institutes.
But on the other face of the coin is that many of the neighboring country’s immigrants also peddle and beg in street corners and even resort to crime.
The increasing growth of Haitians in the country has led different agencies to provide aid, including the Catholic Church, which created a department to lend various services, regardless of their status in the country.
Two weeks ago a Haitian consulate opened its doors for the first time in this city, to assist its citizens, with Claudy Gassant as the person in charge.
Dozens of Haitian families live in rented houses or apartments in this city, where even the presence of many vehicles with plates from that country has become common.
From: United States
That is exactly what we need, positive PR on the Haitian issue.
Written by: Lautaro, 29 Jan 2009 11:07 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Expect a lot of vainglorious chest-pumping on this one from the usual suspect. You know, the one that is always whining, whining, whining and complaining, complaining, complaining about the dominican hookers on Haiti, as if both migrations could be compared. Or the fact that, according to Clave Digital, US$350 million are exported yearly from the DR to Haiti in remittances.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I cant imagine who you are referring to Lautaro .....give us more clues
Written by: Lautaro, 29 Jan 2009 11:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Hints: the one whose nick ends with the year of Haiti's independence: 1804, and whom I like to refer as macoute and mr. FRAPH.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
you have narrowed the field from the other famous whiners and complainers we have....both of them
Written by: hcx27, 29 Jan 2009 11:55 AM
From: United States, Warwick RI
I think we need to see this as positive thing. I'm immigrant myself born and raised in the DR I moved to the US 17 years ago at the age of 20. I can tell you that I have been very fortune, attended a good school and make an above average living. But I think I was fortuned because I fit in I look white, speak English like any other American, live in the suburbs and I even play golf. However I have seen it many times that many of my compatriotas don’t have the same fortune, why because they don’t fit in just like does poor Haitians that are trying to get a better life on a foreign land.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
just as Wally says in " Gran Torino "..........." Life is not supposed to be fair "
Written by: juanb, 29 Jan 2009 12:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: Lautaro, 29 Jan 2009 1:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Is that a jeepeta? it looks more like a tank to me. I'd wager that the guy must surely own a gas station to be able to maintain that thing running.
Written by: generoso, 29 Jan 2009 1:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Lautaro
Those with simplistic minds and our own "bleeding heart liberals" label the patriotic Dominicans
that want a better Dominican Republic as well as a better Haiti for Haitians, xenophobic.
They don't bother to study a little Dominican Haitian history or consider the tremendous stress being put in our fragile infrastructure by the massive and uncontrolled Haitian invasion.
They also don't consider the fact that Haiti is exporting their poor, sick and disenfranchised our
way, encouraged by greedy merchants, agriculture and construction moguls and delinquent employers that
abuse and take advantage of the defenseless Haitian workers, because they are not protected by the stringent Dominican labor laws.
We are not xenophobic, we are patriotic and we do care for the best interest of both the Dominicans and the Haitians in that order, and only in that order.
Written by: santanar, 29 Jan 2009 2:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Ramon Santana
Not only students come across, Haitians tourist are spending big money in Juan Dolio, Boca Chica, etc.
Written by: antonio1, 29 Jan 2009 2:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
That's a flat out lie. I don't care what those smarmy, weak-kneed, pie-in-the-sky, opium induced so-called Evangelical up there in Santiago say or do. The majorities of Dominican are not on board with illegal immigrants running around living out of the state.
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
The Haitians students should go to the Capital Universities or the East Provinces as it used to be, not in Satiago or El Cibao.
From: Haiti
Hope some people here understand now...I ve tried so many time to explain this to them.
From: United States
POPO -PUCMM is considered a top school, if not the best university in the DR. Not that I care, but why would you recommend that Haitians study in the capital or the east instead of Santiago?
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Eh Gilli?
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Because I do not want them to keep on invading Santiago.
From: United States
RIGHT ON POPO!!!! You got my vote. You must be a true blood Cibaeña, right?
Written by: Lautaro, 29 Jan 2009 7:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
That depends on the career choice of the potential student, guillermone. For engineering, the best one on the field is INTEC, which is on the capital. Now, if you're talking about architecture, then PUCMM is the place to go. For business and marketing, the best one is APEC. On odontology and law, UNIBE and the UASD are the best, while on psychology the one is the USCD.
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
You got that right babe!!
From: United States, New York
I'm all for education, and think this is positive, students should always be welcome everywhere. Hopefully once they are done, they can return to Haiti and help their people out.
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
so this is a good reason to cross the border and be an alien in the school systems, so their saying its okay to be an illegal........as long as you come from a wealthy family, and are a student doing well.....your not an illegal and theirs no reason to deport you!!!
HHMM, guess all you loser haitians better start to head back to the borders to your section because their going to deport you.............you see your an illegal imagrant.......and everything boils down to one thing.................
MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Jan 2009 10:03 PM
From: United States, NYC
edit. some people do not understand what they read.
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
kmnupe what............so your Mr know it all what bandwagon and who the hell cares if their paying their own way into the colleges and universities in the DR their still illegal and screw you and your racist comment about sending them wetbacks back to Arizona and Texas where all wetbacks belong
you know what f.......ck you jerk the only one that needs to be deported here on this earth is racists like your kind.....deported off this earth......completely..........understand
Written by: OndeVert 
, 29 Jan 2009 10:46 PM
From: United States
A few thousands attending Dominican universities (with monetary help from the outside) and they are already trying to validate the presence of 2 millions haitians and the illegal crossings into DR. There more than 22,000 haitian children attending primary schools in DR (public load)! The church and other foreign agencies are illegaly subsidizing the invasion, violation of DOminican sovereignty, 285, poverty, diseases, illiterate, violence, etc. in DR and they should be expelled for betraying the Dominican nation. Those haitian attending the universities will soon displace the Dominican from middle class jobs in engineering, communication, medicine, law, accounting, banking, etc.
From: United States, New York
gatita, you misinterpreted my comment. First I would like to clarify that because as students that are attending an institution, it's a lot easier to keep track of them which is very different for example from the dozens selling fruits in the streets whom we have no idea who they are.
Secondly, I suggested that once they are done, they go to Haiti and fix their country, and in order to enforce this there has to be some strict monitoring of the labor market. A lot of well-paying middle class jobs in DR are obtained through connections so it is highly unlikely that these students will be so successful anyways. I agree that these international organizations that fund them are a problem, and have begun to address it via my new organization (collaborators are welcome):
http://www.dominicansforthetruth.orgFrom: United States
That is what I believe, today they take away the menial labor jobs, farm hands, construction work, peddlers and vendors, hotel jobs, they even displaced our very own Dominican beggars right off the streets for crying out loud!!!! not even the Dominican beggars can compete with the Haitians, can you actually believe that!!! that is what is happening now and today, but tomorrow they will be our Doctors, lawyers, engineers, politicians, and eventually a president. Remember and don't forget, Peña Gomez almost became president.
From: United States
"Hopefully once they are done, they can return to Haiti and help their people out. "
-Wishful thinking.
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
kmnupe ...And especially little girls not on my level, jajajajajaja very funny my dear.....wouldn't you like to know!!!!!!!!
anyways i'm rereading your first comment to see where i misunderstood..............ok first of all you say all the women are on the negative bandwagon.....good way to strangle the felines,,,,,,,eeyy
second.......And while we're at it, let's send the rest to Arizona and Texas with the wetbacks.
and who were you reffering this too?
third........Shameful! regarding what?
fourth........I don't know how many of you went to college in the states, but, understand that you're standing on the shoulders of a lot of people.
to whom is this aimed at?
ok so what did i misunderstand, that your just talking but not meaning?
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
DominicanChic.........no problem i understand your point of view i have no problem with it and understand it well thanks for the enlightment
keep it real
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
kmnup..............Fighting on this board is something I'd rather not do i'm glad you think that way because I am not fighting with anyone in here its just a debatable subject nothing more.......
everyone is entitled to their opinion.......yours opinons are not better than mine or anyone else's as visa versa
Muncho's Besos !!!!!!!!! i'm hittin the bales and tuckin the straw, night!!!!!!
From: Canada
Some very narrow-minded people here!
1) Students studying in another country must have a "student visa" in order for their degree to be recognized. So the DR had to "legally" accept them as students. In general, international students even pay more than double the fee that a "national" student pays.
2) Most should know that it's a universal trend for today's youth to want to study in another country (for the experience, for a specific field, to discover other cultures and learn another language, or just to look good on a CV) .
3) If some are afraid they will stay in the DR and take over big jobs from Dominicans, don't worry! There are other places to make an adequate living. After all, is that not why so many of you are gone from the DR?
4) Some hope they will go back home to help their fellow Haitians. How many Dominicans who studied overseas went back to help their fellow Dominicans?
From: Canada
5) One of our kids is presently doing a Masters program. A field not offered in many universities. Out of 20 students : 3 were born in Canada. There are 8 nationalities. Nobody seems to be "bitching" despite certain difficulties that this variety causes... (more because of language).
6) We have a few Haitian friends here... Their families invested every penny for their education overseas. It was a priority. Now, they are doctors, accountants, mathematicians, etc... and have top jobs here. They deserve it!
As an "old professor" that I am, open your eyes!
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 8:00 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
canadafriend said: 4) Some hope they will go back home to help their fellow Haitians. How many Dominicans who studied overseas went back to help their fellow Dominicans?
Well, "mon ami" you can't kill us on that one, cuz' last I checked, the dominican overseas community is among the ones with the highest rate of return to the homeland around the world (be it to invest on a business in the country or to retire). The haitian one, on the other hand, don't have many incentives to return home, for the little facts that politics over there play even a more damning role than in any of the countries of the region and that the politicos over there have made a point in curtailing the ex-pats chances of serving their country on the public arena (heck, they've made the life of some of them an utter hell just for daring to run, if one is to take Charlito Baker's case as an example) by the stingent enforcement of the ban against any people with double-citizenship running for office.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Canadafriend or haitianfriend?
How come Canada, US And France don't offer more asylum petittios to Haitians??
Written by: generoso, 30 Jan 2009 8:16 AM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Lautaro
You forgot Jean Dominique the star of Radio Inter and a Haitian martyr.
He was cowardly killed by the macoutes of Aristide because he was a mulatto and a natural leader like Obama, destined for great things.
More than 90% of the aid that gets to Haiti never gets to the end user, instead it ends up being used by the politicians for their own selfish means or in the case of food, clothing or building materials sold to the merchants to be resold to the populace.
Haitians should look inward not outward for the solution to their failed state.
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 11:25 AM
From: United States
This article was meant t to inspire a substantive and heathty discussion of the Haitian Dominicans relationship.
That was an objective observation by Dominican Today free of the prejudices laced Trujillo History book
I am sorry it had instead helped flaring up the same old resentment,the same empty rethoric ,the same unfounded fear,the same vendetta,n the same diatribes.
It seems that the idea of building a wall seperating Haiti and the Dominican Republic becomes more and more remote and unfeasible unless a new breed of Dominicans such some of the posters hurry up and stop the formation of this melting pot.
Talk is cheap.Dominican Today is not really the platform condusive to influencing nor changing the course of history of this island.
I have also noted that many darker skin Dominicans, particularly those who have lived in the US or have visited the US now call themselves negroes n r proud of their skin color, the texture of their hair n the shape of their noses
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 11:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
ettienc said: "I have also noted that many darker skin Dominicans, particularly those who have lived in the US or have visited the US now call themselves negroes n r proud of their skin color, the texture of their hair n the shape of their noses."
Haven't you heard the saying that goes by: "When in Rome, think as the romans do"? It would be foolish for these people not to think otherwise when they will be hounded and outvoted at every turn by the proponents of the cursed "One Drop Rule".
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 11:36 AM
From: United States
If we can not change the course of history let s instead post our fear and worries.
When we understand each other s fear we may be able to alter our behavior.
When we change our behavior people see us in a different way. When we change the way we see peolpe peolple change.
We can not enter this new world order without reversing some of our attitudes and natural reflexes.
.
The movie " Haitians -Dominicans relationship"is produced ,financed and directed by those in power , the rich and famous.
Let's buy our ticket and watch the movie.
If we get too emotional , start a fight ,make too much noise or spit profanities at each other ,we will be thrown out or we will be arrested.
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 11:37 AM
From: United States
well said Lautaro
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 1:15 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
I'm just wondering if the Haitians were Caucasian, would this conversation be happening. We have had a number of illegal immigrants in the DR for many years, some from Spain, China, Italy, Colombia, Cuba etc... But they are never spoken of, why is that?
It makes me laugh when you see a nappy hair Dominican say they are not black, here in the US Holly Berries is consider black, and last I checked she looks more white then most Dominicans. Just look in the mirror!
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 1:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
hcx27 said: "I'm just wondering if the Haitians were Caucasian, would this conversation be happening. We have had a number of illegal immigrants in the DR for many years, some from Spain, China, Italy, Colombia, Cuba etc... But they are never spoken of, why is that?"
The same advice that ettienc gave to Rubi is the same one that I will give to you: Economics, my friend. The inmigrants of all those places haven't been as in the gutter as the haitian peasants that we're receiving are finding themselves. The other reason is that all those groups that you have mentioned are only taking this country as a bridge to get into the US homeland, the number of them remaining here to grow roots in the country being scant at best, ridiculously short at worst. In short, my friend, the keywords for your question are these: Numbers and money, the first scant, the second plentiful, the majority of those inmigrants bringing some amount of capital in them.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 1:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) And even though some of those inmigrants came to the DR at a time when their countries were (and in the case of Cuba, are) in the gutter, none of those countries have ever received the title of the poorest country on the western (or eastern, in the case of Eurasia) hemisphere, a title that, to an already struggling Third World country like ours, with enough serious problems of its own, is bringing some dread and not in small quantities. Or are you naive enough not to see that, if the DR slackens its already shaky controls, it could follow the same path of its unfortunate neighbour? or that Haiti's socioeconomic problems are not a thing to laugh or play about? This matter goes way beyond race or culture, my friend, it's a matter of national economic survival. The DR can't absorb the uncontrolled exodus from its neighbour without risking a plunge into the ocean itself.
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 2:10 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
How are some Haitian immigrants going to college "a matter of national economic survival"?
They are paying their tuition fees, they are not begging on a stop light. What you are saying is a completely different issue; this is about immigrant college students that happen to be Haitians.
I think you should focus on the issues and not generalized.
PS: Last I checked you are not my friend!
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 2:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
You are the one that started the generalizing, hcx27, dealing, as any clueless foreigner does when dealing with this issue, the slimy race card from the bottom of the deck. As you dealt it, I presumed that you were speaking about how the DR perceives haitian inmigration IN GENERAL. Some of whose aspects are touched on the article too, like: "But on the other face of the coin is that many of the neighboring country’s immigrants also peddle and beg in street corners and even resort to crime. The increasing growth of Haitians in the country has led different agencies to provide aid, including the Catholic Church, which created a department to lend various services, regardless of their status in the country."
Get the picture now? Or do I have to draw it for you?
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 2:21 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
For the record, I was born a raised in the DR, I happen to travel the world a bit, and lived in the US for the last 17 years.
Is individuals like you that always generalized! Is not a card from the bottom of deck is a fact!
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 3:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
And why that is fact? because YOU say it? Please, all that you bleeding heart liberals know is how to find excuses for people in the gutter like them not to advance themselves, always saying stupid things like "the world hates me because I'm black", "the world is against me because of my color", always whining, whining, whining and complaining, complaining, complaining, without recognizing that Haiti and other countries like them are in gutter most of the time because of the incompetence and unwillingness of their leadership to do what must be done in order to advance their countries, and not because of some obscure conspiracy to keep them down because of a superficial thing like skin tone. That, my dear traveller, is the TRUTH.
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 3:15 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
Wrong again! I'm not a liberal far from it; here in the US I'm a register republican, yes I voted for Mcain. I'm also causation so I do not think the world hates me because of the color of my skin.
However, there is a big difference between conservatism and racism, intelligence and ignorance.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 3:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Now I have seen it all, a republican caring for the "esclavitos" on the other side of the pond. Definitivamente, hay que estar vivo par ver vainas. If my mind doesn't betray me, one of your fellow republicans (Dick Cheney to be exact), voted obstinately against the celebration of MLK jr. day. Is taht not a show that conservatism and racism can go hand to hand?
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 3:38 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
Lincoln was a republican as well. I bet you if he didn’t free the slaves you probably be one yourself morenito!
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 3:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
How, may I ask? in the first place, I'm not american. And lastly, I doubt that the confederates would have dared to try anything on this island, specially after seeing what happened the last times that the european armies tried to restore slavery over it (the french and the spaniards could give them horrid accounts about their failed adventures of 1802-03 and 1861-65, I assure you). So your point, republican traveller, is moot.
From: United States
LAUTARO MAN!! YOUR ARE THE BEST!!!- You have the greatest come back responses on this forum. You should be an attorney, if you are not one already. You shut people right up and you do it with respect and keep your cool, all at the same time (very hard to do). There are many other contributors that are quite good too, ( don't want to mention names, I might leave some one out) but to me you won first spot. Keep going, I enjoy every minute.
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 4:03 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
Keep Googling historic events... There is no way in this earth that you are an American. I'm not, but I'm not a wannabe like you. A wannabe that has no concept of the world,.
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 4:19 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
Also for the record Dick Cheney never voted against the celebration of MLK jr. Where do you get this stuff?
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 4:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
hcx27 said: "Keep Googling historic events... There is no way in this earth that you are an American. I'm not, but I'm not a wannabe like you. A wannabe that has no concept of the world, in plain English you are nothing but a jackass. "
And how exactly I'm a wannabe, mr. know-it-all? Jackass is someone like you who are always excusing others for their miserable failings. On this case, you want to excuse the miserable condition of Haiti by using the cheap tactic of accusing others of being racists against them. Read some books next time you want to debate something with someone, airhead. Cuz' apparently, you have caught the republicans' (and other conservatives in general) disregard for any serious intellectual effort.
Written by: antonioj, 30 Jan 2009 5:28 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: generoso, 30 Jan 2009 8:16 AM
From: United States
Lautaro
You forgot Jean Dominique the star of Radio Inter and a Haitian martyr.
He was cowardly killed by the macoutes of Aristide because he was a mulatto and a natural leader like Obama, destined for great things"
Thanks for bringing that was a huge lost for Haiti, he wanted to help the masses.
Hey Lat ,I think you are confusing Charlito Baker with Boulos
http://www.haitianalysis.com/2008....house-in-row-over-u-s-citizenshipCharlito ran a campaign in the 2005 election but was beaten by Preval, they play the race card on him rumor has it, that he was racist...
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 5:31 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
Read some books you said! You really have no foundation to your argument and you know it. The foundation to your so call debate was mainly you accusing me and calling me things and patronizing that I happen to be a republican.
It is obvious that your judgment and fair view of this issue is nonexistent, there for it is impossible for you to give a fair and impartial statement on the matter.
In any case I apologized for calling you a jackass; it is obvious that you are not.
Good discussion and have a nice weekend.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 5:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
You haven't exactly answered my question, hcx27. How exactly am I a wannabe? I challenge you to find in any of my posts a yearning to be something other than what I am, that is, a dominican patriot defending his country from the BS generalizations of foreigners and our own bleeding heart buck-passers. Likewise, I apologize for the generalizations that I have done, but you left me no other choice by your dancing under the same tune that those clueless foreigners do, so to speak. Have a nice weekend, by the way.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Jan 2009 5:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
antonioj:" Charlito ran a campaign in the 2005 election but was beaten by Preval, they play the race card on him rumor has it, that he was racist..."
That was to be expected. I'm still amazed that at this time and age, there are people dumb enough to believe that racism is only one-sided on Hispaniola. If they were to study history as I have, they would discover that it has been more like a two-way street than anything else. From what you have told us, your own family's history is proof enough that, on the western part of the island, to be light skinned/white is the same as being a jew on Europe during the middle ages. As cibaeño would say (paraphrasing Primo Levi): "Everybody have their jews".
Written by: hcx27, 30 Jan 2009 6:23 PM
From: United States, Warwick RI
I guess a wannabe American is what I meant. Going by your last post it seems that you're not. Just keep this in mind that the DR is not an independent country, it may be on paper but we all know it is not. So to call yourself a Dominican patriot is not right, you could be proud of your heritage, unless you are willing to do what Duarte did, then you can call yourself a patriot.
Thanks for keeping me entertained, I been stock in an all staff meeting all day :-)
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 7:02 PM
From: United States
I suspect that this article was posted instead of the usual Haitians are begging on the streets,Haitians are loitering in the parks, Haitians are stealing jobs away from the Dominicans to challeng us to take the high road to appeal to our noble instincts to have an intelligent about the common uture of these two nations
Too often we have allowed our basic instinct to unleash our negative emotions and we end up in a never ended insults spitting.
Whe we reach the fatigue point like a bunch a drunkards our posts r becoming boring and redundantwe crawl
back in our holes finding out and rehearsimg new insults
.
it is very sad the diciders of the Haitian migration are deciding new new strategy for
the next Haitians arrival without paying too much attention to what we like and what we do not like.
when was the last time a rich farmer who employs haitian post a comment ?
They read our complaints or they have someone reporting our complaints and fear to them.
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 7:14 PM
From: United States
The essence or the article states very clear for eveyone with a basic understanding of the English language to understand.
Children of rich Haitians are studying in the Dominican Republic.
Isn ' t that what we had all hoped for ,so upon finishing their studies they could return home and help rebuiding their country,
In the mean time the money they spent for tuition for logement and food are boosting the Dominican economy,
Th purpose of the article is to try to bond the younger Dominican and the younger Haitian generation.
Together they can save the island.
In my training i had parents and chlldren coming to treatment, we provide them with tools and resources to nurture a better relationship.
If it is not broken,we fix it.
The Haitian Dominican relationship is not at the broken point.
if Hamas and Isreal can solve their differences I guess compared to them the Haitian Dominican problem is just a lover quarrel that can be fixed.
Japanes cars are being sold in US
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Etienc:
Very subliminal message and bla, bla, bla, bla, bla!!!!!!
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 7:59 PM
From: United States
Great God ! I got Rubi to smile .
Que te pasa chico ,porque estas mudo ,no tienes nada que decir.
General Roso ,you said I was wasting my time with wackoloco Rubi ,I proved you wrong.
I got him to think like a real human being and he is out of words all he can say now is Bla ! Bla !Bla ! Bla ! Bla.! he sounds like a goat Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! Ha !
Hearing that sound I feel like eating some arroz con gradules y (como se dice: goat meat) and flush it down with a shot of straight Brugal(Brutal) and some presidentes
Now it is your turn you work on that little bakabayakou: HateIam1804 -exorcise him
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Etiennc:
Was just teasing you, take it easy and in slow motion buddy if Haitians really want to move on
to the 21st century follow some advice or rules:
1- Change your country from the inside out not from Dominican Republic blaming Dominicans
for your misfortunes.
2- Stop blaming the Dominican Republic for things that not even your country provide for your own citizens (Sonia Pierre and rest of the ONG'S).
3- Stop playing the Russian roulette with both constitutions since They already establish who is Dominican and who's Haitian at the same time (don't ask for rights you are not entitled to), We
already have the pink book for the foreigners.
4- Stop teaching your children "Cinderella stories" about the island belonging only to Haitians and
Dominicans don't belong there (island is just one).
5- Stop blackmailing the international community that you are being mistreated in our country
when you work in our country and have better living standards that the ones
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
(cont)
you have in your country.
6- You goverment must step up and star providing for your citizens what they are not supposed
to look for in DR (health and education).
These Haitian students have the right of the education in the Dominican Republic, I have not
problems but at the end They must return to your country!!!
"Peace and love"
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 9:40 PM
From: United States
Well said RUBI
General Roso I think you are not upset because Rubi and I we are speaking like adults
iIhope you could train your friend KAKATOUTBET HateIam 1804 to learn to be rational and stop cursing at Rubi.
While Rubi is calm and not in the mood to fight we should try to curb HateIam 1804's strong impulses to curse so Rubi does not get upset.
I am containing Rubi look :he is eating in my hand. You do the same with
chyenanrajemenyo 1804 (AKA Haitian 1804)
chyenenrajemenyo means rabid dogs ,here there are =bite them
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Etienc:
Common sense has nothing to do with racism and lack of responsability, did worked with a specific asian group for 12 years and did learned from them to have respect for others, be
accountable for your own mistakes and honor (3 strong human values), Haitians have none
of Them so far and this is the main reason why you guys go backwards like I repeated many
times before.
Haitians have an inferior behavior of being victims and letting other people know that they
are suffering a self inflicted wish of not pushing themselves to be proactive and regardless
of you acknowledging this or not is the reality and since you guys are not willing to learn the
lesson is the main resson why you enjoy living in the 1804 for no reason.
"Peace and love"
Written by: antonioj, 30 Jan 2009 10:20 PM
From: Canada, home safe
hey hey the new and improved rubi I can not believe what I am reading, etiennc eres un brujo
Written by: etiennc, 30 Jan 2009 11:27 PM
From: United States
estoy mudo ,lleno de verguenza.
all my work going down the toilet !
From: Canada
To Lautaro... Sorry! It is true that many Dominicans overseas help their kins in the DR. We know some who pay tuition for family members. I do know "a few" who went back. Business seems the field that attracts most back. In other areas, not sure. Your comments are interesting.
To JR Rubi... Canadafriend or haitianfriend? Also very much dominicanfriend! Our youngest son is Dominican (and and proud of it). And we are proud of him. We have many close links in the DR. Canada accepts many Haitians, mostly in the province of Quebec because of language but also in the Ottawa region. No they are not the Haitians who beg at street corners. As I said before, most are highly educated and have top jobs. They also help their families and other charitable organizations in Haiti. I have had a few Dominican students over the past ... 32 years and many Haitian students (because of the language). Dominican, Haitian, any other nationality may hope for better through quality education.
Written by: generoso, 31 Jan 2009 8:08 AM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
etiennc
HateIam1804 hasn't shown signs of life lately, must be working under another alias as I suspect his last cover was blown and too acid for most contributors.
Rubi is a good and patriotic Dominican, he may sometimes be misinterpreted but his intentions are basically noble. Sometimes "we" do get a bit flustered by some contributors that resort to slander and insults, and neither me nor Rubi have inclinations to turn the other cheek.
Instead we choose to turn on the flame thrower and burn, baby burn. LOL.
You being a smart psychology professional and have both Haitian an Dominican bicultural awareness can understand better than anyone the needs and wants of both sides of the island.
Your contributions are always positive and with a tendency to mend our huge differences.
Written by: etiennc, 31 Jan 2009 10:43 AM
From: United States
General Roso.I hope that KAKAJAB HateIam1804 was not hit by a truck.
We will loose a good specimen for our studies.
I do undertand Rubi ,but he seems to confuse an article that brings hope for the future of the whole island and articles depicting the bad behavior by some Haitians that disturbs all the parties concerned.
Rubi is a very intelligent human being iI undestand his fear for the future of his country but I do not him to panic and loose sight of the good efforts by some Haitians to get Haiti out of the "1804 mentality"
If you hear a dog barking and you see the dog you fear the dog but u devise a plan of defense . That' s fear.
But if u can not see the barking dog u get immobilzed and panic.
Seing Haitians going to school It is a sign that may eventually utilize their knowlege to help rebuilding Haiti and server its dependency on other countries.
Rubi should applaud this effort and out his panic to rest.
Kakajab1804 plays on rubi's panic to irritate him
From: United States Virgin Islands
Haiti used to be safer. Some Dominicans attended Haitian universities and not many Haitians went to DR. "Katherine Smith is one American who is not afraid. The young ethnographer has been coming here since 1999 to research voodoo and travels to poor neighborhoods using public transportation. "The worst that has happened was being pickpocketed during Carnival, but that could happen anywhere," said Ms. Smith. "How little I've been targeted is remarkable given how visible I am."
And except for émigrés visiting from abroad, tourism is near nonexistent. "It's so frustrating," says Jacqui Labrom, a former missionary who has organized guided tours of Haiti since 1997.
She says street demonstrations are easily avoided and rarely result in violence. "In the '50s and '60s, Haiti taught Cuba, Jamaica, the Dominican Republic how to do tourism.... If we didn't have such bad press, it would make such a difference."
See full article:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0620/p04s01-woam.htmlWritten by: generoso, 4 Feb 2009 8:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Docpeters
And to whom do we owe the pleasure of your resurrection after a such a prolonged absence?
Re your statements in the 50's and 60's Haitians had Paul Magloire which was a pretty benevolent dictator and then Papa Doc Francois Duvalier, who was pretty ruthless and mean.
You might say that was the "golden age" of Haitian tourism. That was the time when the Oloffson, El Rancho, Ibo Lele and then came later Habitation Leclerc and Le Relais de le Empereur owned by Olivier Coquelin were booming and club med was operating. "Baby Doc" came in the early 70's until 1986 and he wasn't so bad for tourism either, much unlike his father.
Is a shame because Haiti has some fine sights and beautiful beaches all around.
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Canadafriend,
-“Nobody seems to be "bitching" despite certain difficulties that this variety causes...” You probably have in national average one Haitian per 5 million people, and boy!! And How big is your land!! I suggest, you have lots of land why don’t you stop been so greedy and place all the people from Haiti and the ones in DR in a tiny portion of your underutilized uninhabited land. Why don’t you??
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Canadafriend,
-How many Dominicans who studied overseas went back to help their fellow Dominicans?” Why do you think we are posting in this forum?? Because we love “Canadians and the else” so much that we can’t wait to give you a response?? For your information, Almost all Dominicans in one way or another help their fellow Dominicans. Not only they financially support 2 generations, they invest in their country in real estate. 99.5 % of all Dominicans leaving abroad own one or two houses or business in DR!!!
-“Out of 20 students : 3 were born in Canada. There are 8 nationalities.” Congratulations!! 8 different nationalities!! Not like us just with one overwhelming group totaling 20 % of the whole population!
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Kmnupe,
Do not compare wetbacks with Haitians.
First all, those wetbacks like you said, may have more rights to immigrate to USA than anybody else. They were here before anybody else! The border crossed over their ancestors lands. Then they became the Californios. Unlike the English, The Spanish, just did not use and killed the Native Americans like the English did, the Spanish (part of my ancestry) intermingled with the Natives (same group as Mexicans), and they became the Californios. And you know what, when the gold rush influx from the east coast came to California, that eastern group instead of taking a piece land and working it (California is a huge State) they invaded, assaulted, and steal from the Californios Rancheros, taking away what those rancheros thru decades have worked so hard, and killing them.
Just remember there is some type of salmon behavior in humans, and you know what I mean.
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Kmnupe,
First of all, what ever I have or enjoy I deserve, because I earn it.
I, like many of my DR people living in USA, paid my own college!! Believe it or not!!
Who is not hijos de immigrante in this world? That everyone knows. The fact is that my country is out of balance with one particular group that per say… is not precisely the crème of la crème”.
“ married a Dominican woman and has a total of 4 children”? That is my point, will stay.
Cont…
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Kmnupe,
We Dominicans DO NOT OWE Haitians anything!! We steal from you or have not invaded you.
And now you want to silence me with the “racist” line!?! It will not work my dear. Many years people have been turning their faces the other way ignoring this immigration catastrophe.
I want my culture “ The Dominican Culture” to be preserved. Do we have to ask you permission to desire that??
If that is a definition of a racist so is the whole world, now I do not feel so bad. Why don’t you go to France and try to shove it down thru their throats for them to adopt the Haitian culture? Or ask the French to abandon their French ways and adopt the English culture? Ask the English abandon their English culture and adopt the French one? Ask Israel to stop being so Jewish and Adopt the Arab culture? I think you will go a long way Kmnupe, they will love you and thank you for the enlighment you are bringing to them.
From: United States Virgin Islands
In the U.S. we have accomodated the Mexicans, Cubans and other Latin American groups by putting almost everything in Spanish for them. When you go to the airport or subway in New York City, Spanish is under the English. In Miami, forget it, Cubans took over. It is almost impossible to find a good paying job in Miami if you are not Cuban or if you do not speak Spanish. Most job posting reads "Bilingual Preferred". The Klu Klux Klan may want to see all spanish people deported or hanged but the majority of Americans love spanish people. We call them Cuban American or Dominican American. We welcome you with open arms. Why can't Dominicans accept Haitian Dominicans?
Written by: generoso, 5 Feb 2009 2:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Docpeters
Sure we accept them. Look at José Francisco Peña Gomez, son of both Haitian parents and must likely born in Haiti as well, (although never documented).
He rose from obscurity to become a great leader and huge political figure for the PRD by his charisma and his gift for public oratory. At the present time he would probably have been president if not for cancer ending his life prematurely.
We Dominicans do accept Haitians, what we can not accept is the millions of illegal
undocumented Haitians stressing our very fragile institutions to the max, including health services, education, and employment opportunities.
You have to understand this. Dominican Republic is under tremendous stress caused by this
"friendly" but nevertheless illegal Haitian tsunami.
Haitian governments have been exporting their poor, sick and unemployed to DR in masse instead of looking inward to find solutions and creating job opportunities at home.
Written by: Lautaro, 5 Feb 2009 10:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Tell it like it is, general. Also, Docpeters, that comparison of yours is outlandish when you take into account that the US occupies a huge chunk of a continent (so there's enough space to accomodate any group whatsoever) and it's a global empire to boot, so they have enough resources to pull out of poverty any group that it's needing it. The DR, on the other hand, only occupies 2/3 of a small island and it's a Third World country that is barely surviving the myriad of problems assailing it, including the exodus coming from the ecologically ravaged western part of the island. Also, considering that the rate of children per family of the haitians is 4.5 compared with the meagre 2.5 of the dominicans, there's the very likely risk of becoming a minority on our own land in less than a decade if things remain at the pace they're going.
From: United States
Popo, Gen & Lautaro-Thank-you for enlightening our Canadian Friend. He obviously made comments that clearly displayed a true lack of understanding, knowledge and insight about the Haitian/Dominican conflict.
What I don't seem to be clear is that for someone who has a Dominican child "Our youngest son is Dominican (and proud of it). And we are proud of him" and says to have close ties to the DR, why Canada Friend is unable to grasp the real essence of the issue.
CanadaFriend tell us:
Is your Dominican son an adoptive child? Is your immersion in Dominican culture a 2 week stay at an all inclusive resort, drinking all the Presidente beer you want? Have you done any reading on our history and political evolution and if so, did you get it from a textbook or a tourist guide?
Written by: kmnupe, 6 Feb 2009 10:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
edit. waste of intellectual energy.
Written by: kmnupe, 6 Feb 2009 10:06 PM
From: United States, NYC
edit. ciao
From: United States
Send them to Cuba, the USSR and France. These countries including the US and others around the world give out thousands of scholarships to foreign students for the opportunity to study.
From: United States
Santiago sure has a lot of people from Haiti. Is it because the prospects and opportunities are better there? I am an immigrant myself so I can sympathise with them to some extent.
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Check out our representative's car. Who paid for this anyway?
Those with simplistic minds and our own "bleeding heart liberals" label the patriotic Dominicans
that want a better Dominican Republic as well as a better Haiti for Haitians, xenophobic.
They don't bother to study a little Dominican Haitian history or consider the tremendous stress being put in our fragile infrastructure by the massive and uncontrolled Haitian invasion.
They also don't consider the fact that Haiti is exporting their poor, sick and disenfranchised our
way, encouraged by greedy merchants, agriculture and construction moguls and delinquent employers that
abuse and take advantage of the defenseless Haitian workers, because they are not protected by the stringent Dominican labor laws.
We are not xenophobic, we are patriotic and we do care for the best interest of both the Dominicans and the Haitians in that order, and only in that order.
HHMM, guess all you loser haitians better start to head back to the borders to your section because their going to deport you.............you see your an illegal imagrant.......and everything boils down to one thing.................
MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
you know what f.......ck you jerk the only one that needs to be deported here on this earth is racists like your kind.....deported off this earth......completely..........understand
Secondly, I suggested that once they are done, they go to Haiti and fix their country, and in order to enforce this there has to be some strict monitoring of the labor market. A lot of well-paying middle class jobs in DR are obtained through connections so it is highly unlikely that these students will be so successful anyways. I agree that these international organizations that fund them are a problem, and have begun to address it via my new organization (collaborators are welcome):
http://www.dominicansforthetruth.org
-Wishful thinking.
anyways i'm rereading your first comment to see where i misunderstood..............ok first of all you say all the women are on the negative bandwagon.....good way to strangle the felines,,,,,,,eeyy
second.......And while we're at it, let's send the rest to Arizona and Texas with the wetbacks.
and who were you reffering this too?
third........Shameful! regarding what?
fourth........I don't know how many of you went to college in the states, but, understand that you're standing on the shoulders of a lot of people.
to whom is this aimed at?
ok so what did i misunderstand, that your just talking but not meaning?
keep it real
everyone is entitled to their opinion.......yours opinons are not better than mine or anyone else's as visa versa
Muncho's Besos !!!!!!!!! i'm hittin the bales and tuckin the straw, night!!!!!!
1) Students studying in another country must have a "student visa" in order for their degree to be recognized. So the DR had to "legally" accept them as students. In general, international students even pay more than double the fee that a "national" student pays.
2) Most should know that it's a universal trend for today's youth to want to study in another country (for the experience, for a specific field, to discover other cultures and learn another language, or just to look good on a CV) .
3) If some are afraid they will stay in the DR and take over big jobs from Dominicans, don't worry! There are other places to make an adequate living. After all, is that not why so many of you are gone from the DR?
4) Some hope they will go back home to help their fellow Haitians. How many Dominicans who studied overseas went back to help their fellow Dominicans?
6) We have a few Haitian friends here... Their families invested every penny for their education overseas. It was a priority. Now, they are doctors, accountants, mathematicians, etc... and have top jobs here. They deserve it!
As an "old professor" that I am, open your eyes!
Well, "mon ami" you can't kill us on that one, cuz' last I checked, the dominican overseas community is among the ones with the highest rate of return to the homeland around the world (be it to invest on a business in the country or to retire). The haitian one, on the other hand, don't have many incentives to return home, for the little facts that politics over there play even a more damning role than in any of the countries of the region and that the politicos over there have made a point in curtailing the ex-pats chances of serving their country on the public arena (heck, they've made the life of some of them an utter hell just for daring to run, if one is to take Charlito Baker's case as an example) by the stingent enforcement of the ban against any people with double-citizenship running for office.
How come Canada, US And France don't offer more asylum petittios to Haitians??
You forgot Jean Dominique the star of Radio Inter and a Haitian martyr.
He was cowardly killed by the macoutes of Aristide because he was a mulatto and a natural leader like Obama, destined for great things.
More than 90% of the aid that gets to Haiti never gets to the end user, instead it ends up being used by the politicians for their own selfish means or in the case of food, clothing or building materials sold to the merchants to be resold to the populace.
Haitians should look inward not outward for the solution to their failed state.
That was an objective observation by Dominican Today free of the prejudices laced Trujillo History book
I am sorry it had instead helped flaring up the same old resentment,the same empty rethoric ,the same unfounded fear,the same vendetta,n the same diatribes.
It seems that the idea of building a wall seperating Haiti and the Dominican Republic becomes more and more remote and unfeasible unless a new breed of Dominicans such some of the posters hurry up and stop the formation of this melting pot.
Talk is cheap.Dominican Today is not really the platform condusive to influencing nor changing the course of history of this island.
I have also noted that many darker skin Dominicans, particularly those who have lived in the US or have visited the US now call themselves negroes n r proud of their skin color, the texture of their hair n the shape of their noses
Haven't you heard the saying that goes by: "When in Rome, think as the romans do"? It would be foolish for these people not to think otherwise when they will be hounded and outvoted at every turn by the proponents of the cursed "One Drop Rule".
When we understand each other s fear we may be able to alter our behavior.
When we change our behavior people see us in a different way. When we change the way we see peolpe peolple change.
We can not enter this new world order without reversing some of our attitudes and natural reflexes.
.
The movie " Haitians -Dominicans relationship"is produced ,financed and directed by those in power , the rich and famous.
Let's buy our ticket and watch the movie.
If we get too emotional , start a fight ,make too much noise or spit profanities at each other ,we will be thrown out or we will be arrested.
It makes me laugh when you see a nappy hair Dominican say they are not black, here in the US Holly Berries is consider black, and last I checked she looks more white then most Dominicans. Just look in the mirror!
The same advice that ettienc gave to Rubi is the same one that I will give to you: Economics, my friend. The inmigrants of all those places haven't been as in the gutter as the haitian peasants that we're receiving are finding themselves. The other reason is that all those groups that you have mentioned are only taking this country as a bridge to get into the US homeland, the number of them remaining here to grow roots in the country being scant at best, ridiculously short at worst. In short, my friend, the keywords for your question are these: Numbers and money, the first scant, the second plentiful, the majority of those inmigrants bringing some amount of capital in them.
They are paying their tuition fees, they are not begging on a stop light. What you are saying is a completely different issue; this is about immigrant college students that happen to be Haitians.
I think you should focus on the issues and not generalized.
PS: Last I checked you are not my friend!
Get the picture now? Or do I have to draw it for you?
Is individuals like you that always generalized! Is not a card from the bottom of deck is a fact!
However, there is a big difference between conservatism and racism, intelligence and ignorance.
And how exactly I'm a wannabe, mr. know-it-all? Jackass is someone like you who are always excusing others for their miserable failings. On this case, you want to excuse the miserable condition of Haiti by using the cheap tactic of accusing others of being racists against them. Read some books next time you want to debate something with someone, airhead. Cuz' apparently, you have caught the republicans' (and other conservatives in general) disregard for any serious intellectual effort.
From: United States
Lautaro
You forgot Jean Dominique the star of Radio Inter and a Haitian martyr.
He was cowardly killed by the macoutes of Aristide because he was a mulatto and a natural leader like Obama, destined for great things"
Thanks for bringing that was a huge lost for Haiti, he wanted to help the masses.
Hey Lat ,I think you are confusing Charlito Baker with Boulos
http://www.haitianalysis.com/2008....house-in-row-over-u-s-citizenship
Charlito ran a campaign in the 2005 election but was beaten by Preval, they play the race card on him rumor has it, that he was racist...
It is obvious that your judgment and fair view of this issue is nonexistent, there for it is impossible for you to give a fair and impartial statement on the matter.
In any case I apologized for calling you a jackass; it is obvious that you are not.
Good discussion and have a nice weekend.
That was to be expected. I'm still amazed that at this time and age, there are people dumb enough to believe that racism is only one-sided on Hispaniola. If they were to study history as I have, they would discover that it has been more like a two-way street than anything else. From what you have told us, your own family's history is proof enough that, on the western part of the island, to be light skinned/white is the same as being a jew on Europe during the middle ages. As cibaeño would say (paraphrasing Primo Levi): "Everybody have their jews".
Thanks for keeping me entertained, I been stock in an all staff meeting all day :-)
Too often we have allowed our basic instinct to unleash our negative emotions and we end up in a never ended insults spitting.
Whe we reach the fatigue point like a bunch a drunkards our posts r becoming boring and redundantwe crawl
back in our holes finding out and rehearsimg new insults
.
it is very sad the diciders of the Haitian migration are deciding new new strategy for
the next Haitians arrival without paying too much attention to what we like and what we do not like.
when was the last time a rich farmer who employs haitian post a comment ?
They read our complaints or they have someone reporting our complaints and fear to them.
Children of rich Haitians are studying in the Dominican Republic.
Isn ' t that what we had all hoped for ,so upon finishing their studies they could return home and help rebuiding their country,
In the mean time the money they spent for tuition for logement and food are boosting the Dominican economy,
Th purpose of the article is to try to bond the younger Dominican and the younger Haitian generation.
Together they can save the island.
In my training i had parents and chlldren coming to treatment, we provide them with tools and resources to nurture a better relationship.
If it is not broken,we fix it.
The Haitian Dominican relationship is not at the broken point.
if Hamas and Isreal can solve their differences I guess compared to them the Haitian Dominican problem is just a lover quarrel that can be fixed.
Japanes cars are being sold in US
Very subliminal message and bla, bla, bla, bla, bla!!!!!!
Que te pasa chico ,porque estas mudo ,no tienes nada que decir.
General Roso ,you said I was wasting my time with wackoloco Rubi ,I proved you wrong.
I got him to think like a real human being and he is out of words all he can say now is Bla ! Bla !Bla ! Bla ! Bla.! he sounds like a goat Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! Ha !
Hearing that sound I feel like eating some arroz con gradules y (como se dice: goat meat) and flush it down with a shot of straight Brugal(Brutal) and some presidentes
Now it is your turn you work on that little bakabayakou: HateIam1804 -exorcise him
Was just teasing you, take it easy and in slow motion buddy if Haitians really want to move on
to the 21st century follow some advice or rules:
1- Change your country from the inside out not from Dominican Republic blaming Dominicans
for your misfortunes.
2- Stop blaming the Dominican Republic for things that not even your country provide for your own citizens (Sonia Pierre and rest of the ONG'S).
3- Stop playing the Russian roulette with both constitutions since They already establish who is Dominican and who's Haitian at the same time (don't ask for rights you are not entitled to), We
already have the pink book for the foreigners.
4- Stop teaching your children "Cinderella stories" about the island belonging only to Haitians and
Dominicans don't belong there (island is just one).
5- Stop blackmailing the international community that you are being mistreated in our country
when you work in our country and have better living standards that the ones
you have in your country.
6- You goverment must step up and star providing for your citizens what they are not supposed
to look for in DR (health and education).
These Haitian students have the right of the education in the Dominican Republic, I have not
problems but at the end They must return to your country!!!
"Peace and love"
General Roso I think you are not upset because Rubi and I we are speaking like adults
iIhope you could train your friend KAKATOUTBET HateIam 1804 to learn to be rational and stop cursing at Rubi.
While Rubi is calm and not in the mood to fight we should try to curb HateIam 1804's strong impulses to curse so Rubi does not get upset.
I am containing Rubi look :he is eating in my hand. You do the same with
chyenanrajemenyo 1804 (AKA Haitian 1804)
chyenenrajemenyo means rabid dogs ,here there are =bite them
Common sense has nothing to do with racism and lack of responsability, did worked with a specific asian group for 12 years and did learned from them to have respect for others, be
accountable for your own mistakes and honor (3 strong human values), Haitians have none
of Them so far and this is the main reason why you guys go backwards like I repeated many
times before.
Haitians have an inferior behavior of being victims and letting other people know that they
are suffering a self inflicted wish of not pushing themselves to be proactive and regardless
of you acknowledging this or not is the reality and since you guys are not willing to learn the
lesson is the main resson why you enjoy living in the 1804 for no reason.
"Peace and love"
all my work going down the toilet !
To JR Rubi... Canadafriend or haitianfriend? Also very much dominicanfriend! Our youngest son is Dominican (and and proud of it). And we are proud of him. We have many close links in the DR. Canada accepts many Haitians, mostly in the province of Quebec because of language but also in the Ottawa region. No they are not the Haitians who beg at street corners. As I said before, most are highly educated and have top jobs. They also help their families and other charitable organizations in Haiti. I have had a few Dominican students over the past ... 32 years and many Haitian students (because of the language). Dominican, Haitian, any other nationality may hope for better through quality education.
HateIam1804 hasn't shown signs of life lately, must be working under another alias as I suspect his last cover was blown and too acid for most contributors.
Rubi is a good and patriotic Dominican, he may sometimes be misinterpreted but his intentions are basically noble. Sometimes "we" do get a bit flustered by some contributors that resort to slander and insults, and neither me nor Rubi have inclinations to turn the other cheek.
Instead we choose to turn on the flame thrower and burn, baby burn. LOL.
You being a smart psychology professional and have both Haitian an Dominican bicultural awareness can understand better than anyone the needs and wants of both sides of the island.
Your contributions are always positive and with a tendency to mend our huge differences.
We will loose a good specimen for our studies.
I do undertand Rubi ,but he seems to confuse an article that brings hope for the future of the whole island and articles depicting the bad behavior by some Haitians that disturbs all the parties concerned.
Rubi is a very intelligent human being iI undestand his fear for the future of his country but I do not him to panic and loose sight of the good efforts by some Haitians to get Haiti out of the "1804 mentality"
If you hear a dog barking and you see the dog you fear the dog but u devise a plan of defense . That' s fear.
But if u can not see the barking dog u get immobilzed and panic.
Seing Haitians going to school It is a sign that may eventually utilize their knowlege to help rebuilding Haiti and server its dependency on other countries.
Rubi should applaud this effort and out his panic to rest.
Kakajab1804 plays on rubi's panic to irritate him
And except for émigrés visiting from abroad, tourism is near nonexistent. "It's so frustrating," says Jacqui Labrom, a former missionary who has organized guided tours of Haiti since 1997.
She says street demonstrations are easily avoided and rarely result in violence. "In the '50s and '60s, Haiti taught Cuba, Jamaica, the Dominican Republic how to do tourism.... If we didn't have such bad press, it would make such a difference."
See full article: http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0620/p04s01-woam.html
And to whom do we owe the pleasure of your resurrection after a such a prolonged absence?
Re your statements in the 50's and 60's Haitians had Paul Magloire which was a pretty benevolent dictator and then Papa Doc Francois Duvalier, who was pretty ruthless and mean.
You might say that was the "golden age" of Haitian tourism. That was the time when the Oloffson, El Rancho, Ibo Lele and then came later Habitation Leclerc and Le Relais de le Empereur owned by Olivier Coquelin were booming and club med was operating. "Baby Doc" came in the early 70's until 1986 and he wasn't so bad for tourism either, much unlike his father.
Is a shame because Haiti has some fine sights and beautiful beaches all around.
-“Nobody seems to be "bitching" despite certain difficulties that this variety causes...” You probably have in national average one Haitian per 5 million people, and boy!! And How big is your land!! I suggest, you have lots of land why don’t you stop been so greedy and place all the people from Haiti and the ones in DR in a tiny portion of your underutilized uninhabited land. Why don’t you??
-How many Dominicans who studied overseas went back to help their fellow Dominicans?” Why do you think we are posting in this forum?? Because we love “Canadians and the else” so much that we can’t wait to give you a response?? For your information, Almost all Dominicans in one way or another help their fellow Dominicans. Not only they financially support 2 generations, they invest in their country in real estate. 99.5 % of all Dominicans leaving abroad own one or two houses or business in DR!!!
-“Out of 20 students : 3 were born in Canada. There are 8 nationalities.” Congratulations!! 8 different nationalities!! Not like us just with one overwhelming group totaling 20 % of the whole population!
Do not compare wetbacks with Haitians.
First all, those wetbacks like you said, may have more rights to immigrate to USA than anybody else. They were here before anybody else! The border crossed over their ancestors lands. Then they became the Californios. Unlike the English, The Spanish, just did not use and killed the Native Americans like the English did, the Spanish (part of my ancestry) intermingled with the Natives (same group as Mexicans), and they became the Californios. And you know what, when the gold rush influx from the east coast came to California, that eastern group instead of taking a piece land and working it (California is a huge State) they invaded, assaulted, and steal from the Californios Rancheros, taking away what those rancheros thru decades have worked so hard, and killing them.
Just remember there is some type of salmon behavior in humans, and you know what I mean.
First of all, what ever I have or enjoy I deserve, because I earn it.
I, like many of my DR people living in USA, paid my own college!! Believe it or not!!
Who is not hijos de immigrante in this world? That everyone knows. The fact is that my country is out of balance with one particular group that per say… is not precisely the crème of la crème”.
“ married a Dominican woman and has a total of 4 children”? That is my point, will stay.
Cont…
We Dominicans DO NOT OWE Haitians anything!! We steal from you or have not invaded you.
And now you want to silence me with the “racist” line!?! It will not work my dear. Many years people have been turning their faces the other way ignoring this immigration catastrophe.
I want my culture “ The Dominican Culture” to be preserved. Do we have to ask you permission to desire that??
If that is a definition of a racist so is the whole world, now I do not feel so bad. Why don’t you go to France and try to shove it down thru their throats for them to adopt the Haitian culture? Or ask the French to abandon their French ways and adopt the English culture? Ask the English abandon their English culture and adopt the French one? Ask Israel to stop being so Jewish and Adopt the Arab culture? I think you will go a long way Kmnupe, they will love you and thank you for the enlighment you are bringing to them.
Sure we accept them. Look at José Francisco Peña Gomez, son of both Haitian parents and must likely born in Haiti as well, (although never documented).
He rose from obscurity to become a great leader and huge political figure for the PRD by his charisma and his gift for public oratory. At the present time he would probably have been president if not for cancer ending his life prematurely.
We Dominicans do accept Haitians, what we can not accept is the millions of illegal
undocumented Haitians stressing our very fragile institutions to the max, including health services, education, and employment opportunities.
You have to understand this. Dominican Republic is under tremendous stress caused by this
"friendly" but nevertheless illegal Haitian tsunami.
Haitian governments have been exporting their poor, sick and unemployed to DR in masse instead of looking inward to find solutions and creating job opportunities at home.
What I don't seem to be clear is that for someone who has a Dominican child "Our youngest son is Dominican (and proud of it). And we are proud of him" and says to have close ties to the DR, why Canada Friend is unable to grasp the real essence of the issue.
CanadaFriend tell us:
Is your Dominican son an adoptive child? Is your immersion in Dominican culture a 2 week stay at an all inclusive resort, drinking all the Presidente beer you want? Have you done any reading on our history and political evolution and if so, did you get it from a textbook or a tourist guide?
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