SANTO DOMINGO.- The commission that coordinates the legislation aimed at looking at ways to use the Pensions Fund in real estate development yesterday revealed that around 40,000 people can immediately access financing for a house because of their income level.
Customs director Rafael Camilo, who coordinates the public-private commission charged with overseeing the Fund, said it looks to develop a real estate market for homes costing no higher than RD$2.0 million.
He said the average wage for those workers to obtain financing with the Fund will be for a family unit that earns between RD$25,000 and RD$30,000 monthly, which represents a quota of between RD$6,000 to RD$8,000 per month.
Banks Association (ABA) president and commission member Jose Manuel Lopez said the people who pay into the Pensions Fund are the ones who will have access to credit in the project and will begin to reap the benefits of their contributions before reaching the age of 65. “The project is an example for the country because it’s the first where the public and private sectors have agreed on to produce something that will contribute to the sector’s development of low cost housing in the country.”
Lopez adding that there is no risk in the investment and noted that the country’s banks have financed houses for more than RD$60.0 billion.
From: United States
There goes the pension fund. Down an ugly dark hole of corruption and nepotisim never to be seen again other than in the pockets of a few politicians..
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
You really must have had a bad night ,Jim ,,there have been numerous articles here in the press about the role of the pension funds and who controls them and there is nothing dark or sinister about anything ...and in fact , the usages of the fund that are being examined are exactly what various people like you have been seeking ...that is the building of low cost homes .
The lending of money from the pension fund to those people who have contributed into the fund is a very sensible move and it is easy to have good security against the loans .
The main problem with this plan is that there are very few needy families who earn between 25000 and 30000 pesos monthly , in my opinion . I think those families would be already catered for by banks .
From: United States
Sorry, I am with Jim.
Dominican politicians have ONLY displayed a pathologically corrupt mentality, transparently and with impunity.
There are decades of real world examples, it will NOT change in this generation.
Dominican have no problem screwing their own, they will sell their futures.
Written by: juanb, 19 Aug 2010 10:01 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Martha, the paid government stooge has spoken.
Everything is OK. Trust the government.
What planet is he on? He certainly isn't here in the DR.
Written by: juanb, 19 Aug 2010 10:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic
By the way.
Would Ric care to comment on why his benefactor, LF, has not made a single statement regarding:
Rampant crime
Rampant corruption
The huge loss of formal jobs
The outrageous taxes that we are paying.
Or will he choose to ignore this question as LF does our problems?
We all know the answer.
Written by: juanb, 19 Aug 2010 1:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
No answer, huh?
Contact someone in the Presidential Palace and ask them what to say.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Et l;
I am reminded of the time in very recent US History when the machinations ofthe then President, Lyndon Johson, along with the colusion of the US Congress, tapped into the US Social Security Trust Fund by placing it into the same category with the General Fund, to be used as Congress saw fit.
Now, some 50 years later, we have a "Trust Fund" contributed into by MILLIONS OF CITIZENS, paid for by and through Payroll Taxes, that is practically BROKE, and which will be the end of SOCIAL SECURITY PENSIONS in just another few years.
When POLITICIANS get their hands on a source of Federal Income, it NEVER goes away. That's the nature of the beast (politicians).
Tax and Spend is the modus operendi of government employees and elected representatives.
TexasBill
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
at the last look at how we are governed I see that we have two chambers who make and amend the laws I was unaware that this was a dictatorship here where the President / Dictator had sole responsibility ...but maybe all these problems that juanb sees are mainly in his jealous mind as he sees the country advance but he himself fall behind .
In fact ,the use of pension funds in a way that immediately benefits the contributors , rather than them having to wait until retirement is a wonderful idea that I am sure the contributors will approve of ,,,but of course there are those who are not contributors who do not want anything to progress , and in this case , can not even comment with any intelligence on the article .
Maybe if they could look at the rates of return , the benefits to the working class family , the safeguards to be put into place, the benefits to the economy , instead of trying to stop every ounce of progress , they could be taken seriously .
Written by: Escott, 19 Aug 2010 1:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a 2 days a month for payday
Yes sir, loan the money to people that cann't and won't pay it back. Just like in the US. Good Democrats.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
And instead of complaining about the taxes , maybe juanb could suggest ways how the people who avoid their share of taxes can be brought to heel but I am sure he has not the faintest idea of the contributions of the various taxes in the total tax revenue ..We do know he supported the tax indexation on fuel but now complains about tax levels ,
The tragedy is that when it comes to specific knowledge about the finances and economy of the country he appears to know nothing , except what he sees in his small Santiago barrio .
Mercifully , we have a wonderful chief central banker, a progressive President and a supportive electorate to offset the generalised winging of the few losers who are being left behind , simply because they refuse to adapt to the new DR. Hail Progress , Hail LF , Hail DR .!!!!!!
From: Dominican Republic, I dislike all politicians and their afiliated parties... "I simply say it AS IT IS!!"
Ricardolito, I agree with you.
Remember there are Dominicans who are still stuck in the Balaguer, Jorge Blanco, Hipolito era and they wish the same mockery to be going on.
For those disagreeing, can you please tell me which developing country where there's not crime, corruption, bad politians, and so on?
DR in the last 10 years has become a world focal point. As a result, you will have all kinds of differents daily elements Dominicans have not ever seen before - this is called - Growth, whether you like it or not. It had happened to every country in the world that is modern today.
It's reality, we must face it...Leonel is another man not GOD.
One thing I see about DR is that we have more than what we had some years ago. Better infrastructure, more professionals, and people willing to move with the current. So sad for those wanting to stay behind.
By them tapping into these funds at least something is being done!!
Cont...
From: Dominican Republic, I dislike all politicians and their afiliated parties... "I simply say it AS IT IS!!"
At least they are there today.
No other government had the power and financial imperative flow to grow this much money. So that tells you something. Why complain?
Look at the unkanny process that took place here. Now they should work it out even further. Now if not proper measures are taken, of course funds malversing will occur. But - does not this happen in most parts of the world? Rich or Poor country?
It's just harvesting time now, for good or worse!!!
From: United States
Ricardolito a paid PLD stooge. It is so obvious it jumps at you.
It seems that Ricardolito sees nothing of what actualy happens.
From: United States
JPDtrinity,
The DR has become a world focal point. You can't be serious. Just another paid PLD stooge.
the only focal point the DR has is for corruption.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
sorry Jim you are barking up the wrong tree yet again ,,the problem is that like juanb you are so rigidly opposed to anything positive , even though you cannot present one reason in opposition , that you just write the same diatribe
in this particular case you have not even understood who the trustees for the pension fund are and what are their powers , responsibilities and remuneration .
From: United States, NJ
Ricardolito,JPDTrinity:
Don't you get it? They already have those billions of dollars ear marked for the subway second line
at the expense of those hard working Dominicans. nation wide to benefitt (LOS CAPITALENOS).
Your ideas are purely uthopian in a country of corruption as stated on my previous comments.If you don't belive me,then see what Texas Bill has to say about it as an outsider who looks out for the benefitt od the DR I don't know if both of you are paid polical loybist but sounds as if you were,
Let the banks give loans to those that make 25k and 30k / month. If the gvt wants to help the so call middle class ,they could force the lendders at a reasonable interest as is done here since you
are comparing democracies.
I had made a comment previously in respect to gvt administering public funds and it is not to the best interest to the nation,as it is here in the USA as TB poited out.and i agree with him
How are you guys benefitting by it ?
TAR
.
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 8:06 AM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
A pension fund is a form of taxation or forced savings.
In developing countries it good that a proportion of these funds be used for social projects such as low cost housing and subsidised loans for housing etc.
In many countries it is possible to withdraw a proportion of the pension fund to finance assets such as housing.
S.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
As IMPLIED in my previous post, when a benevolentleaning government gets its hand on a wad of money, the administrators will find a way to spend as much as possible of that money on projects, programs, and the like, which will enhance their prospects of perpetuity in office. That being said, if we look at History (ie., the Garibaldi Brothers of ancient Rome, the current fiasco of Greece, Great Britain under the Labor Party, the current and previous Administrations of the US Government, Venezuela, Equador, Cuba, Et Al), we will see that EVERY TIME left leaning (read BENEVOLENT) governments start givingaway the national wealth to those who "have not", that country goes down the tube and eventually staggers on the brink of BANKRUPTCY.
I'm not against lending a "helping hand" to those who are in dire need and who, because of circumstances beyound their control, need a "leg up" from time to time, but to dole out to those who won't help themselves, draw the line.
Cont'd
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
When we look at the population of the DR, we see a population who are a nation of "takers", who consider it "beneath their dignity" to take apiece of work that requires physical labor and the"sweat of their brows" as a method of employment to feed their families and meet their day to day expenses. They have been lead "down the primrose path" by a supposed "BENEVOLENT GOVERNMENT" which makes promises at Election time, only to renege on those promises once elected.
Look at your History and learn the error of your ways instead of continuousoy making excuses for a political group whose only goal in life is to accumulate as much wealth at the public expense as is possible in the time they are in office.
EVERY Legislative Body has done very litle other than vote themselves a "pay raise" and dig the national debt a little deeper in all the time I have been an observer of the DR.
Chew on that piece of fat for awhile before you go off into left field with excuses.
TexasBill
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 10:56 AM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
More nonesense from TB. For example Hong Kong. At the time the big subsidised housing and educatioin progams started circa 1975 and there was a huge influx of people from China the wage of a textile worker was very low - nowhere sufficient to build even minimal housing - and anyway no private organisation is going to fund loans for housing to the very poor on low wages.
So highly subididized housing was built with by the government and the government issued paper promising to repay.
As te people got healthy, worked hard, received education, both the businessmen paying taxes, pensions etc. increased in wealth, and the relatively poorer got richer, first able to pay economic rents and then receive equity in the form of buying their appartments, some with subsidised loans.
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 11:10 AM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
In general when you move someone out of very bad conditions into adequate conditions, well designed etc. they don't suddenly become lazy - they have the first bite of a good apple and are motivated to achieve even more for themselves and their families.
But if life is a constant struggle against illness, crime, unemployment, inadequate food many give up and turn to what they perceive as the only avenue forward - crime.
As you can see now with high crime rates across vast tracts of the evil empire the US.
S.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
abc;
I would refer you to the many "low cost housing projects" in the US which have been literally "trashed out", the bathroom fixtures sold off, the windows broken, and generally reduced to a "substandard', unlivable condition by those whom you would provide for by offering such accomodations.
When people find that they can get, for free, or at substantially reduced rent/cost, they take advantage and do not live up to even the basic responsibilities of their largess. Look at the number of houses that were provided to the persons displaced by the floods in the DR in recent years, where they took the REPLACEMENT HOUSES and sold them, then moved back into dilapidated shanties along the river bank, only to the made momeless again by the next flood.
How would you justify such disregard to government largess exemplified by such poeple??
As to the "evil US empire" I would suggest you re-read your history about the amount of money squandered on other countries bu the US.
TexasBill
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 2:22 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Housing projects I saw in the US even in then wealthy areas like Detroit were incredibly mean. Privately owned areas in New York were third World in amenities. Compared to many of the model 'New Towns', for example in the UK the various US adminstrations have a bad record of being mean and callous.
An example was Robert Taylor Homes. No amenities, no planning for factories or employment nearby. But many others. Also no local governance.
Mixed communities are needed.
As far as the DR is concerned of course it is better to rent/lease till the tennant has the funds to make a deposit and purchase and there is a case for property returning the the public housing stock should someone move out.
However there is a limited amount of public housing being built in the DR at the moment and it is clear that there has been some thought to mixed communities ( e.g. some private some public )
Shops scools kiosks etc. are nearby.
S.
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 2:23 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 3:04 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Mostly the evil empire has made nice money out of selling arms - for example to both sides in the Iran Iraq war.
38 billion last year government to government arms sales.
Israel gets 2.4 billions in US aid and spend 95% of this on arms.
Total USAID 11 billions.
S.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
abc;
The use of your terminology for the US indicated that you are/may be of Mid-Eastern origin. I would surmise that you hail from Iran since that government uses similar rhetoric when refering to the US.
As that might be the case, I totally ignore any and all of your selected references and your ongoing rhetoric, vis-a-vis the US.
While you may think you are giving good, valid reasons for your assertions, they appear to be "canned responses" and not completely valid for a neutral debate.
In fact, I doubt seriously if you are even capable of such, what with your evident resonses thus far.
I bid you farewell.
TexasBill
Written by: abc200, 20 Aug 2010 6:25 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
TB has taken the huff! Certainly not Middle Easten origin!
S.
From: United States, NJ
ABC 200:
Let us stay on the subject of housinmg instead of injecting foreign affairs that does not come to the picture.
As far as i could remember in the 50s section "8" and welfare in the USA has not gotten these prople off the ground .They think the gvt is obligated to take care of them for what is owed to them
in the colonial days and slavery .
The apartments" housing" is a disgrace in NYC and must of the crimes are commited there with housing police as well as govermental janitorial and its own D/P/W. I known since my brother in-law retired from housing . The gvt has to foot the bills as well as up keeping all repair work that damage is made by the tennants,.at the working middle class expense.
So you see my friend you"' could take a horse to water but you can't make him drnk it" .As far as
education goes, they have the same opportunity as any one else ,but they decide not to take full advantage of it as we all did.They don't attend school nor do they work,"parasites
Written by: abc200, 21 Aug 2010 9:28 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
In the UK it is quite difficult to live off welfare and do nothing for any period of time. I have had former friends who have tried. They make up some program or other. For example they give an employer a big grant towards wages if they take on someone who has been unemployed for some time or insist on voluntary work, insist the person starts a business etc.
In 2006 of the UK workforce of 30 M + there were 100,000 in this position.
So I think you must take the problem in proportion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6187169.stmThe vast majority during the 50's when and where housing was very bad in areas of the UK have fully appreciated the government house building programs and gone on to a reaonable employment history and were motivated by improvement in housing.
Ditto the situation in Hong Kong.
But I think there were many more failures in housing policy where planning was bad and the government mean.
S.
Written by: abc200, 21 Aug 2010 9:30 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Certainly black americans serving in the UK I met in the 60's were amazed at the pogress in the UK. It is true that if treat people like sh** they will respond with sh**.
S.
From: United States, NJ
ABC200:
I must agree with your last statement 100%,Nevetherless you can't compare UK with the USA where you have a more caring labor party than we have in the USA. This is a purely capitalistic country and wellfare is a form of bribery for votes,keeping these people uneducated so they can not compete with teir counterpart (WASP). As UK did with the catholic Irish in Irland.So did we in the 50's to the catholic Irish who had 8 and more kids called "RELIEFF",but the bread winner still could keep working since this was sore of a supplement income to the housewives, who stayed home getting pregned every year ,to the benefitt of the middle and upper class so as not to have a revolt. As you know they did not believe in birth control.That did't help because the husband used to pissed his salary at the pubbs. In the 60s & 70s & 80s It went from relieff to unmarried women
that was even worse because they were encouraging prostitution multiple children by unknown fathers for biger checks.
Written by: abc200, 22 Aug 2010 11:57 AM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Historically it was in the UK conservatives who built much public housing. e.g. McMillan
Nicknamed 'Supermac' and known for his pragmatism, wit and unflappability, Macmillan achieved notoriety before the Second World War as a Tory radical and critic of appeasement. Rising to high office as a protegé of wartime Prime Minister Winston Churchill, he believed in the essential decency of the post-war settlement and the necessity of a mixed economy, and in his premiership pursued corporatist policies to develop the domestic market as the engine of growth.[2] As a One Nation Tory of the Disraelian tradition, haunted by memories of the Great Depression, he championed a Keynesian strategy of public investment to maintain demand, winning a second term in 1959 on an electioneering budget. Benefiting from favourable international conditions,[3] he presided over an age of affluence, marked by low unemployment and high if uneven growth.
S.
Written by: abc200, 22 Aug 2010 12:14 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
It was Thatcher who messed the UK up.
However now, in the context of countries like DR, Brazil etc. public housing is need - well planned - in a good environment - good facilities.
There is a public housing development in Nagua that looks good. There is private housing nearby and a nice location.
Countries need to learn from Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore etc.how to make long term investments to lift people out of housing poverty using funds available.
Dilma Rousseff of the Worker's party looks set to win the presidential election there and undoutably should this win occur social programs started by Lula will strengthen.
Talking to a friend in Brazil it seems strangly that the middle class there are not generally resentful of these programs as long as they recieve a slice of the cake as well.
Note that Brazil is being very democratic regarding TV time etc. unlike US where candidates
can buy unlimited time
S.
Written by: abc200, 22 Aug 2010 12:16 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
From: United States, NJ
What for you delite any article that politicaly does not please you !!!!!
TAR
Written by: abc200, 28 Aug 2010 8:27 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Never deltete anything --- must be someone else ......
S.
From: United States, NJ
Just look at the picture ..... How many Dminicans do you see in the picture? To me they are the IMF or WB - representative .I don't think they are to be trusted by the average national,with their life savings.
TAR
Written by: abc200, 28 Aug 2010 10:08 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Might be better than fund managers that invested in GM.
Public housing can be a good investment.
S.
From: United States, NJ
Yes but what guarntee do you have on rent payments . Remeber it is not a hand out it would be a bussiness and a fare return is expected . I would invested on education and that would be some-thing no one could take away from you nor can you sell it to move back to a shack.
TAR
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Anytime the government of a country "creates" another system of "social right" it becomes the basis of yet another bureaucratic addition to that government aqndincumbent on thecitizens to support through additional taxation so as to "spread the cost" through the population.
Frequently, that form of taxation is hidden in forms not directly associated with direct taxation and thus is not made cognizant to the public which must support such schemes through added costs to the products normallly associated as "the necessities of life".
Additionally, Governments of late have assumed an increase in costs of gigantic proportions by virtue of gross expansions. In doing so, they have increased the "non-productive population" of the country exponentially in proportion to the 'productive population".
This scenario is ever present in the evolution of "BENEVOLENT GOVERNEMTS", that is Socialist inclined governments.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Such scenarios have been evident in the great civilizations of the past.
AQs previously mentioned, Rome under theGaribaldi Brothers, under Nero and under many of the imperial Roman Dictators who sought to mollify the citizenry of Rome through "free bread and grain" allocations. History shows us that such mollifications were never enough to satisfy those citizens who, as a whole, were made to believe that it was THEIR RIGHT to be fed by the government. Rome eventually fell through internal corruption and sculduggery. The Byzentine Empire fell through the same machinations if one reads history between the lines. The Caprtian Empire fell through the arrogance of the ruling classes who disregarded the basic rights of the population of the time. The British Empire fell through the machinations of theopposing forces of an entrenched aristocracy and the demands of an overpopulated labor force whose demands were more of a vengaance against the aristocracy than any other real reasons.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
I am of the opinion that the curent political tempest raqmpaging the US at present is a real grass roots rebellion against the insidious encroachment of "big government" against the poplation.
People are rebelling against the scenario of "special interests" lobbiest and their influence that is being exerted on the legislative bodies of the government.
Now, don't place the tag of "Tea Partyist" to my name because I'm not one. What I am is an INDEPENDENT and hope you will see me as a PATRIOT who is rebelling against the encroachment of my rights by the very government that is mandated by our Constitution to ensure those rights.
I am of theopinion that the left leaning Democratic Party is maqking serious mistakes in the running of the country. And I don't say that the Republican Party is doing much better, judging from the mistakes they are responsible for in the past.
I feel that we are facing some large changes in the future because people are fedup with both parties. Said enough.TB
From: United States, NJ
Well said TB:
Am with you ,I remember the USA as a commercial super power and now I don't know what to make of it. We owe our asses to CHINA and all the original industries left the country looking for less taxation and cheaper labor ,This happened right after president REAGAN who was a repub.
and a union buster starting with the air traffic controllers.He also did away with the original GI bill and call it montgomery GI bill, where you foot half for your education.
I think we have seen the best of the USA ,never to take the place again as it did after WW2, also the cold war weakened the economy as well.
Just to show you, building weapons is not a soluttion to these mess. Look at RUSSIA building weapons that their own gvt can not consume. They have to rely on others to buy from them to keep the factories going. At least we make them and put them to use as we have done in Korea,Laos,Cambodia,Vietnam,Irak,Iran,Afganistan,Central America .But how many people benefitt from it?
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The lending of money from the pension fund to those people who have contributed into the fund is a very sensible move and it is easy to have good security against the loans .
The main problem with this plan is that there are very few needy families who earn between 25000 and 30000 pesos monthly , in my opinion . I think those families would be already catered for by banks .
Sorry, I am with Jim.
Dominican politicians have ONLY displayed a pathologically corrupt mentality, transparently and with impunity.
There are decades of real world examples, it will NOT change in this generation.
Dominican have no problem screwing their own, they will sell their futures.
Everything is OK. Trust the government.
What planet is he on? He certainly isn't here in the DR.
Would Ric care to comment on why his benefactor, LF, has not made a single statement regarding:
Rampant crime
Rampant corruption
The huge loss of formal jobs
The outrageous taxes that we are paying.
Or will he choose to ignore this question as LF does our problems?
We all know the answer.
Contact someone in the Presidential Palace and ask them what to say.
I am reminded of the time in very recent US History when the machinations ofthe then President, Lyndon Johson, along with the colusion of the US Congress, tapped into the US Social Security Trust Fund by placing it into the same category with the General Fund, to be used as Congress saw fit.
Now, some 50 years later, we have a "Trust Fund" contributed into by MILLIONS OF CITIZENS, paid for by and through Payroll Taxes, that is practically BROKE, and which will be the end of SOCIAL SECURITY PENSIONS in just another few years.
When POLITICIANS get their hands on a source of Federal Income, it NEVER goes away. That's the nature of the beast (politicians).
Tax and Spend is the modus operendi of government employees and elected representatives.
TexasBill
In fact ,the use of pension funds in a way that immediately benefits the contributors , rather than them having to wait until retirement is a wonderful idea that I am sure the contributors will approve of ,,,but of course there are those who are not contributors who do not want anything to progress , and in this case , can not even comment with any intelligence on the article .
Maybe if they could look at the rates of return , the benefits to the working class family , the safeguards to be put into place, the benefits to the economy , instead of trying to stop every ounce of progress , they could be taken seriously .
The tragedy is that when it comes to specific knowledge about the finances and economy of the country he appears to know nothing , except what he sees in his small Santiago barrio .
Mercifully , we have a wonderful chief central banker, a progressive President and a supportive electorate to offset the generalised winging of the few losers who are being left behind , simply because they refuse to adapt to the new DR. Hail Progress , Hail LF , Hail DR .!!!!!!
Remember there are Dominicans who are still stuck in the Balaguer, Jorge Blanco, Hipolito era and they wish the same mockery to be going on.
For those disagreeing, can you please tell me which developing country where there's not crime, corruption, bad politians, and so on?
DR in the last 10 years has become a world focal point. As a result, you will have all kinds of differents daily elements Dominicans have not ever seen before - this is called - Growth, whether you like it or not. It had happened to every country in the world that is modern today.
It's reality, we must face it...Leonel is another man not GOD.
One thing I see about DR is that we have more than what we had some years ago. Better infrastructure, more professionals, and people willing to move with the current. So sad for those wanting to stay behind.
By them tapping into these funds at least something is being done!!
Cont...
No other government had the power and financial imperative flow to grow this much money. So that tells you something. Why complain?
Look at the unkanny process that took place here. Now they should work it out even further. Now if not proper measures are taken, of course funds malversing will occur. But - does not this happen in most parts of the world? Rich or Poor country?
It's just harvesting time now, for good or worse!!!
It seems that Ricardolito sees nothing of what actualy happens.
The DR has become a world focal point. You can't be serious. Just another paid PLD stooge.
the only focal point the DR has is for corruption.
in this particular case you have not even understood who the trustees for the pension fund are and what are their powers , responsibilities and remuneration .
Don't you get it? They already have those billions of dollars ear marked for the subway second line
at the expense of those hard working Dominicans. nation wide to benefitt (LOS CAPITALENOS).
Your ideas are purely uthopian in a country of corruption as stated on my previous comments.If you don't belive me,then see what Texas Bill has to say about it as an outsider who looks out for the benefitt od the DR I don't know if both of you are paid polical loybist but sounds as if you were,
Let the banks give loans to those that make 25k and 30k / month. If the gvt wants to help the so call middle class ,they could force the lendders at a reasonable interest as is done here since you
are comparing democracies.
I had made a comment previously in respect to gvt administering public funds and it is not to the best interest to the nation,as it is here in the USA as TB poited out.and i agree with him
How are you guys benefitting by it ?
TAR
.
In developing countries it good that a proportion of these funds be used for social projects such as low cost housing and subsidised loans for housing etc.
In many countries it is possible to withdraw a proportion of the pension fund to finance assets such as housing.
S.
I'm not against lending a "helping hand" to those who are in dire need and who, because of circumstances beyound their control, need a "leg up" from time to time, but to dole out to those who won't help themselves, draw the line.
Cont'd
Look at your History and learn the error of your ways instead of continuousoy making excuses for a political group whose only goal in life is to accumulate as much wealth at the public expense as is possible in the time they are in office.
EVERY Legislative Body has done very litle other than vote themselves a "pay raise" and dig the national debt a little deeper in all the time I have been an observer of the DR.
Chew on that piece of fat for awhile before you go off into left field with excuses.
TexasBill
So highly subididized housing was built with by the government and the government issued paper promising to repay.
As te people got healthy, worked hard, received education, both the businessmen paying taxes, pensions etc. increased in wealth, and the relatively poorer got richer, first able to pay economic rents and then receive equity in the form of buying their appartments, some with subsidised loans.
But if life is a constant struggle against illness, crime, unemployment, inadequate food many give up and turn to what they perceive as the only avenue forward - crime.
As you can see now with high crime rates across vast tracts of the evil empire the US.
S.
I would refer you to the many "low cost housing projects" in the US which have been literally "trashed out", the bathroom fixtures sold off, the windows broken, and generally reduced to a "substandard', unlivable condition by those whom you would provide for by offering such accomodations.
When people find that they can get, for free, or at substantially reduced rent/cost, they take advantage and do not live up to even the basic responsibilities of their largess. Look at the number of houses that were provided to the persons displaced by the floods in the DR in recent years, where they took the REPLACEMENT HOUSES and sold them, then moved back into dilapidated shanties along the river bank, only to the made momeless again by the next flood.
How would you justify such disregard to government largess exemplified by such poeple??
As to the "evil US empire" I would suggest you re-read your history about the amount of money squandered on other countries bu the US.
TexasBill
An example was Robert Taylor Homes. No amenities, no planning for factories or employment nearby. But many others. Also no local governance.
Mixed communities are needed.
As far as the DR is concerned of course it is better to rent/lease till the tennant has the funds to make a deposit and purchase and there is a case for property returning the the public housing stock should someone move out.
However there is a limited amount of public housing being built in the DR at the moment and it is clear that there has been some thought to mixed communities ( e.g. some private some public )
Shops scools kiosks etc. are nearby.
S.
S.
38 billion last year government to government arms sales.
Israel gets 2.4 billions in US aid and spend 95% of this on arms.
Total USAID 11 billions.
S.
The use of your terminology for the US indicated that you are/may be of Mid-Eastern origin. I would surmise that you hail from Iran since that government uses similar rhetoric when refering to the US.
As that might be the case, I totally ignore any and all of your selected references and your ongoing rhetoric, vis-a-vis the US.
While you may think you are giving good, valid reasons for your assertions, they appear to be "canned responses" and not completely valid for a neutral debate.
In fact, I doubt seriously if you are even capable of such, what with your evident resonses thus far.
I bid you farewell.
TexasBill
S.
Let us stay on the subject of housinmg instead of injecting foreign affairs that does not come to the picture.
As far as i could remember in the 50s section "8" and welfare in the USA has not gotten these prople off the ground .They think the gvt is obligated to take care of them for what is owed to them
in the colonial days and slavery .
The apartments" housing" is a disgrace in NYC and must of the crimes are commited there with housing police as well as govermental janitorial and its own D/P/W. I known since my brother in-law retired from housing . The gvt has to foot the bills as well as up keeping all repair work that damage is made by the tennants,.at the working middle class expense.
So you see my friend you"' could take a horse to water but you can't make him drnk it" .As far as
education goes, they have the same opportunity as any one else ,but they decide not to take full advantage of it as we all did.They don't attend school nor do they work,"parasites
In 2006 of the UK workforce of 30 M + there were 100,000 in this position.
So I think you must take the problem in proportion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6187169.stm
The vast majority during the 50's when and where housing was very bad in areas of the UK have fully appreciated the government house building programs and gone on to a reaonable employment history and were motivated by improvement in housing.
Ditto the situation in Hong Kong.
But I think there were many more failures in housing policy where planning was bad and the government mean.
S.
S.
I must agree with your last statement 100%,Nevetherless you can't compare UK with the USA where you have a more caring labor party than we have in the USA. This is a purely capitalistic country and wellfare is a form of bribery for votes,keeping these people uneducated so they can not compete with teir counterpart (WASP). As UK did with the catholic Irish in Irland.So did we in the 50's to the catholic Irish who had 8 and more kids called "RELIEFF",but the bread winner still could keep working since this was sore of a supplement income to the housewives, who stayed home getting pregned every year ,to the benefitt of the middle and upper class so as not to have a revolt. As you know they did not believe in birth control.That did't help because the husband used to pissed his salary at the pubbs. In the 60s & 70s & 80s It went from relieff to unmarried women
that was even worse because they were encouraging prostitution multiple children by unknown fathers for biger checks.
Nicknamed 'Supermac' and known for his pragmatism, wit and unflappability, Macmillan achieved notoriety before the Second World War as a Tory radical and critic of appeasement. Rising to high office as a protegé of wartime Prime Minister Winston Churchill, he believed in the essential decency of the post-war settlement and the necessity of a mixed economy, and in his premiership pursued corporatist policies to develop the domestic market as the engine of growth.[2] As a One Nation Tory of the Disraelian tradition, haunted by memories of the Great Depression, he championed a Keynesian strategy of public investment to maintain demand, winning a second term in 1959 on an electioneering budget. Benefiting from favourable international conditions,[3] he presided over an age of affluence, marked by low unemployment and high if uneven growth.
S.
However now, in the context of countries like DR, Brazil etc. public housing is need - well planned - in a good environment - good facilities.
There is a public housing development in Nagua that looks good. There is private housing nearby and a nice location.
Countries need to learn from Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore etc.how to make long term investments to lift people out of housing poverty using funds available.
Dilma Rousseff of the Worker's party looks set to win the presidential election there and undoutably should this win occur social programs started by Lula will strengthen.
Talking to a friend in Brazil it seems strangly that the middle class there are not generally resentful of these programs as long as they recieve a slice of the cake as well.
Note that Brazil is being very democratic regarding TV time etc. unlike US where candidates
can buy unlimited time
S.
S.
TAR
S.
TAR
Public housing can be a good investment.
S.
TAR
Frequently, that form of taxation is hidden in forms not directly associated with direct taxation and thus is not made cognizant to the public which must support such schemes through added costs to the products normallly associated as "the necessities of life".
Additionally, Governments of late have assumed an increase in costs of gigantic proportions by virtue of gross expansions. In doing so, they have increased the "non-productive population" of the country exponentially in proportion to the 'productive population".
This scenario is ever present in the evolution of "BENEVOLENT GOVERNEMTS", that is Socialist inclined governments.
AQs previously mentioned, Rome under theGaribaldi Brothers, under Nero and under many of the imperial Roman Dictators who sought to mollify the citizenry of Rome through "free bread and grain" allocations. History shows us that such mollifications were never enough to satisfy those citizens who, as a whole, were made to believe that it was THEIR RIGHT to be fed by the government. Rome eventually fell through internal corruption and sculduggery. The Byzentine Empire fell through the same machinations if one reads history between the lines. The Caprtian Empire fell through the arrogance of the ruling classes who disregarded the basic rights of the population of the time. The British Empire fell through the machinations of theopposing forces of an entrenched aristocracy and the demands of an overpopulated labor force whose demands were more of a vengaance against the aristocracy than any other real reasons.
People are rebelling against the scenario of "special interests" lobbiest and their influence that is being exerted on the legislative bodies of the government.
Now, don't place the tag of "Tea Partyist" to my name because I'm not one. What I am is an INDEPENDENT and hope you will see me as a PATRIOT who is rebelling against the encroachment of my rights by the very government that is mandated by our Constitution to ensure those rights.
I am of theopinion that the left leaning Democratic Party is maqking serious mistakes in the running of the country. And I don't say that the Republican Party is doing much better, judging from the mistakes they are responsible for in the past.
I feel that we are facing some large changes in the future because people are fedup with both parties. Said enough.TB
Am with you ,I remember the USA as a commercial super power and now I don't know what to make of it. We owe our asses to CHINA and all the original industries left the country looking for less taxation and cheaper labor ,This happened right after president REAGAN who was a repub.
and a union buster starting with the air traffic controllers.He also did away with the original GI bill and call it montgomery GI bill, where you foot half for your education.
I think we have seen the best of the USA ,never to take the place again as it did after WW2, also the cold war weakened the economy as well.
Just to show you, building weapons is not a soluttion to these mess. Look at RUSSIA building weapons that their own gvt can not consume. They have to rely on others to buy from them to keep the factories going. At least we make them and put them to use as we have done in Korea,Laos,Cambodia,Vietnam,Irak,Iran,Afganistan,Central America .But how many people benefitt from it?