From: United States
this is very good news, i know the PLD steals alot of money but at least this is a way of giving back to the citizens, most people dont like the metro but for example, now i have to go meet someone in villa mella and instead of driving or taking a bus from zona universitaria i take the metro and it gets there in less than 15min instead of 40min driving or 1hr on the conchos.
From: United States
Perfect! Great news..
If that would be Hipolito's idea, he will be transporting those 250,000 people in dunkies and cows..
That's what I call progress..
Only PLD can do it..Whether you like it or not..!
From: United States
Written by: ohhhvictor, 9 Dec 2011 11:22 AM
From: United States
Perfect! Great news..
If that would be Hipolito's idea, he will be transporting those 250,000 people in dunkies and cows..
That's what I call progress..
no , Victor. progress is when you understand what it is COSTING the country to have this exercise in bad judgement.
Written by: Eriliza, 9 Dec 2011 12:21 PM
From: United States, Boston, MA
Great news! Our government can be corrupt at times but this is a good way of showing how much it cares for the society's well-being when transporting themselves from one place to another. Kudos to our government and people alike!
Written by: riosm, 9 Dec 2011 12:27 PM
From: United States
Can anybody post the numbers in rider ship of the first metro. It's always a good indication of where this one is going.
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 1:07 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Written by: jhcl2012, 9 Dec 2011 1:32 PM
From: United States
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 1:40 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"That's what I call progress.."
Progress would be a country that could provide a simple breakfast to its children without causing an epidemic of diarrhea.
Progress would be a country where you didn’t have to take your own bed sheets and medicines to the “hospital.”
Progress would be a country would be a country were autopsies are not conducted on the side of the road.
Progress would be a country where you take a taxi because your tired, not out fear being mugged and not have to worry that the cabdriver may also rob you.
Progress would be a country where the president would obey the constitution and provide 4% for education so our children would have a fighting opportunity to rise out of poverty.
The rest is just METROLANDIA a fantasy of progress!
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 2:00 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
What the purple clapping ignoramuses (or pretend to be so for political purpose) don’t understand is that question is not about whether it cost 1 peso or a Billion dollars.
The questions were, are and always will be, "was it a priority that required the mortgaging of the country when the basic services like education, healthcare, safety and security are abysmal."
And the resounding collective answer of NO will be given by the Dominican masses via their vote on May 20th, 2012!!
Written by: jhcl2012, 9 Dec 2011 2:21 PM
From: United States
With no infrastructure and other capital investments to generate the revenues to PAY for education, salud, and other social needs, we would have nothing!
Which one came first, el huevo o la gallina / Catch-22!
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 2:42 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Nobody is not talking about "no infrastructure and other capital investments"
And its not about the chicken or the egg , its about putting the CART of the non-prority METRO before the HORSE of education, which is what really pulls societies forward into progress, genius.
Its is "Capital investments" in education that has had the most dynamic effect on the gereation of revenues in human history.
I wonder how the world got along before there were METROS to create revenues for education?
I think there was education before METROS, right Socrates, Aristotle, Da Vinci, Galileo, Copernicus and Albert E; what do you guys think?
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Josean,
"That's what I call progress.."
Progress would be a country that could provide a simple breakfast to its children without causing an epidemic of diarrhea.
Progress would be a country where you didn’t have to take your own bed sheets and medicines to the “hospital.”.......
Progress is a society where its citizens walk what they talk, teach their kids with action s and not words...teach their kids not to steal by paying the monthly electric, water and cable bills, teach their kids not to steal when you buy the original (copyright copy) of the Disney movie they want to watch, teach your kids by standing on line to renew the license plate or to obtain a birth certificate and not to pay the buscones for a quick way out...It always easier to teach your kids to complain to everyone else about the conditions affecting our families and ourselves when we are the first who break the law and pay la mordida in a way to teach them how to be a tiguerazo...
Written by: jhcl2012, 9 Dec 2011 3:27 PM
From: United States
Maybe no METROS, but they had paper, ink, roads, bridges, carriages, and whatever tools they needed/required to flourish...
Nada viene de la nada!
Written by: juanb, 9 Dec 2011 4:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
My favorite comment so far:
Our government can be corrupt at times but this is a good way of showing how much it cares for the society's well-being when transporting themselves from one place to another. Kudos to our government and people alike!"
At times? When is it not corrupt?
A good way of showing how much it cares for the society's well-being when transporting them from on place to another? Unfortunately they can't take it to their jobs. There are none.
Looks like all 477 riders every day are enjoying the hell out of the Metro.
And kudos to you Eriliza for posting your government sponsored BS here.
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Josean what do you care, you're not even Dominican.
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 4:15 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"Nada viene de la nada!"
Now juan thats a profound PLD talking point!
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
The main problem with the second line is that it is not what was planned ...It should start at Carrefour in the north and cross the river and go mega centro and then along to las Americas ,,its shortened version means people have to get off the train and catch a gua gua to either mega centro or to Carrefours
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 6:05 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"The main problem with the second line is that it is not what was planned'
Just like the First Line!
From: United States
wonderful observations, perludom.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Josean You Must be PISSED OFF that the Metro is working as it should and the second line is soon to be in operation...
jajajjajajaa
Written by: jhcl2012, 9 Dec 2011 8:44 PM
From: United States
Ricordalito: "The main problem with the second line is that it is not what was planned'
Josean: "Just like the First Line! "
Even in mighty NYC, big item projects get modified due to cost and/or politics. Go ask the MTA about Subway No.7 extension to the West Side!
It's reality, not just DR-alitity!!!
( ';' )
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/nyregion/17tunnel.htmlFrom: United States, NJ
Why would you need an extension in the #7 line IRT when the IND is capable of handling all the west side,Manhattan Queesns,Brroklyn,Bronx. That would be extra expense when there is no need for it .
From: United States, NJ
As you well know MTA and NYCTA are two separate ajencies, You could not have domane in NJ,
been operated by NYCTA. As far as 1935 when the GW built by MTA ,the NYCTA visioned an extension of the the IND into NJ thru the lower deck of the GW,but FT LEE rejected the idea. Think
about it ....invaded by low life poor New yorkers coming into FT LEE an exclusive JEWISH section then as it is now. SECAUCUS is diferent been an industrial area. Still needs MTA aproval which
NYCTA will not get . The tunnel vision was a diferent story,since MTA needs a newer one in addition to the LINCOLN aged one.
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 10:08 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"It's reality, not just DR-alitity!!!'
Wow! Did you come up with that all by yourself?
Written by: josean, 9 Dec 2011 10:27 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
So Lie-onel how is that METRO thing working out for you:
"Fernandez is the second worst valued President of Central America"
“The worse valued rulers in the region, according to Cid Gallup, are the Dominican Republic Leonel Fernández (22%) and Colom, of Guatemala with 17%.”
Well Lie-onel look at it on the bright side after they finish the second useless line of the METRO you could earn the title of the WORST PRESIDENT in Central America.
You know that I wish you nothing but the best in reaching that goal!
http://www.7dias.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=112748Written by: jhcl2012, 10 Dec 2011 12:17 AM
From: United States
La CID Gallup? Jejejeje, la CID Latinamerica? PRD CID/Acevedo? Internacional Socialista? Wasn't that the same one that gave PRD like 14 to 18 Senators in 2010? And had Vargas Maldonado way ahead of Leonel in 2008? Yes? Ah, ok!
;-)
Written by: airgordo, 10 Dec 2011 7:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: CarlosFranco, 9 Dec 2011 7:32 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn
Josean You Must be PISSED OFF that the Metro is working as it should and the second line is soon to be in operation...
jajajjajajaa
---
I'm pissed of that this stupid Metro was build at the expense of BASIC stuff like Running Water and Electricity!!!
I'm pissed of that this thing was NOT REQUESTED by anyone on this country, NO ONE asked for this!! yet the MOney FLOWS easily to it
I'm pissed that the LAW that gives 4% FOR EDUCATION is not complied due to "lack of resources" but the METRO that moves a MICROSCOPIC amount of people on a even smaller part of santo domingo HAS MONEY.
Written by: josean, 10 Dec 2011 9:07 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
airgordo,
I like your Prose!
Don't worry that in the real Dominican world, not the fantasy that the clapping seals here on DT want to make the world believe exists, or the METROLANDIA of Lie-onel, the Dominican Walt Disney , most people, if not the majority agree with our point of view!
THE METRO SUCKS and those who defend it are SUCKERS!
Written by: RonEvane, 10 Dec 2011 9:33 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Josean what do you care, you're not even Dominican."
What? Where does this clown come from? And why is he/she bashing my country instead of his/her?
Hey, a-hole. what are you doing on my web-site? You ain't no Dominican! Go bash your own f'king country!
I'm sick of your shit and will fight you all the way! Maricon, hijo de tu maldita madre!
You've got yourself a fight, mother sucker!
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 4:53 AM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
If the shoe fits wear it!
THE METRO SUCKS and those who defend it are SUCKERS!
As to "Maricon, hijo de tu maldita madre!" you must have me confused with your hero Lie-onel!
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 11:23 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Let me spell it out for you, dude.
According to the CIA world factbook, DR consumes 119,000 barrels of oil PER DAY.(2010 figures).
At today's price of 99.41 per barrel, it comes to 11,829,790 dollars spent, PER DAY.
Times 365 days = 4 billion, 317 million, 873, thousand, 350 dollars. PER YEAR.
Out of this money, a good portion goes to power our many SUVs and inefficient chatarras.
It also goes to generate electricity.
How much did the metro's first line cost? One billion? How much is the second line gonna cost? Another billion? How much is a gallon of regular gas cost in DR today? >$5.00 bucks.
How much is a one-way ride in the metro? 20 pesos? +,- ? that's like $0.26 cents, USD.
Now tell me honestly Mr Josean, would you not rather take the metro and save yourself, at least $4.00 dollars?.... Where do you think all these billions of dollars DR spends in oil every year goes to? Answer that question, and we'll talk some more.
From: United States
RonEvane, save the numbers crunching for economists. your references to the cost of petroleum sound like you think that the Metro runs without energy. ever stop to think of the farebox losses it is incurring?ever consider that it will have to be subsidized, in perpetuity? ever stop to think that the studies were rushed, in order to complete if for Leonel's political dog and pony show? why do you think it was not built by Bombardier, instead of the Euros? because Bombardier is an honorable firm, with a reputation to protect. they demanded 4 years to study the soil and rock structures, before laying down a foot of track. Leo told them to get lost. we have no idea what will happen , in the event of a major earthquake, such as the one in Haiti. the loss of life and limb could be devastating. besides, we now see Transmileno style buses being looked at. why did they not do that BEFORE building this abortion? it is a huge blunder in judgement, plain and simple
From: United States
Written by: josean, 10 Dec 2011 9:07 PM
From: United States
airgordo,
I like your Prose!
i like it, too.
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 12:30 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Well Mr. "The Destiny of DR Revolves around the METRO" you forgot one thing in you "brilliant” economic analysis of the costs and benefits; how much is the annual subsidy for the Magic Choo-Choo Train?
And do people still use the word “dude”, I thought that went out with the 8-track!
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 1:14 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
" save the numbers crunching for economists. your references to the cost of petroleum sound like you think that the Metro runs without energy. ever stop to think of the farebox losses it is incurring?ever consider that it will have to be subsidized, in perpetuity?"
Ever stop to think how much more efficient a bus can be, vs. a car? Have you ever heard of the term "passenger miles"? Well, let me tell you. It has to do with the fact that a bus can transport more people for the same gallon of gas used than the average car can.
The same concept applies to a metro car. It simply means that for the same energy in a gallon of gas, it can transport that many more people than a bus can. This simple physics observation can be multiplied exponentially if electricity is generated to power the metro other than by burning oil.
Even if the metro have to be "subsidized in perpetuity", this money goes to pay for maintenance or whatever. It stays in DR. it does not go to Venezuela for oil....
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 1:39 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
You want to close your eyes to the FACT that DR spends billions, to power inefficient combustion engines, every year. Enough to build a metro line every single year, with a couple of billions left over!
Aside from being extremely efficient, when "passenger miles", are taken in consideration, Electricity to power the metro can be had by hydro-power.
Not only is the metro fast, safe and cheap to ride, It puts a lot of cars out of circulation thereby, limiting pollution and saving about $4.50 USD a gallon, in gas not spent.
The less oil bought, the more money that stays here and can be used,(if someone doesn't steal it, first), for the welfare of the people. And, no Mr. Dread, I will not "save the numbers crunching for the economists". These are figures that need to be looked into before you formulate an opinion and make an ass of yourself.
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 2:03 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
So after all that FUNGOLDE Mumbo Jumbo what is the annual subsidy for the Magic Choo-Choo Train?
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 2:19 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr Josean. I've already figured into the equation that it won't be cheap to maintain and run a metro.
I'm sure it'll run into the millions of dollars. So you're right about that.
But the one thing you, et,al, have not done, is to look into the savings in oil NOT bought!
Have you any idea how much of those 4billions+ yearly in oil expenditure will remain in DR?
Even when you figure in maintenance for the metro, You'd still be left with much more with, than without it.
Let me put it to you a bit simpler. Sometimes I walk instead of using my car. Sometimes I take the bus. It costs me $1.75 to go anywhere I want, as long as I do so within 3 hours.
A gallon of regular costs $3.85 plus the hassle of finding and paying, at least $5.00, for parking.
The Washington DC metro is also efficient safe and relatively cheap, ($3.00) for an all-day pass.
As you can see, it costs me less than a gallon of gas to go anywhere I want. Why is a simple concept like this so difficult to grasp?
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 2:40 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
The number "Adam Smith," calculated by your own PLD cadre is $25,000,000 million dollars and that assumed a ridership of 250,000 a day which they are not even close to achieving in the foreseeable future, maybe not even with the shortened second line.
However, for me personal the objection to the poorly planned political reelection gimmick was not the cost or the inefficiency, but rather its priority over for what is for me the most important problem facing DR in its ability to develop quality sustainable economic growth that impacts the majority, EDUCATION.
The will be no moving forward regardless if we fill every square inch of the republic with METROS, if we do not do something radical an immediate about our abysmal, shameful and international embarrassing education “system” PERIOD!
From: United States
asks RonEvane
Ever stop to think how much more efficient a bus can be, vs. a car? Have you ever heard of the term "passenger miles"? Well, let me tell you. It has to do with the fact that a bus can transport more people for the same gallon of gas used than the average car can.
really , RonEvane? that depends upon the fuel consumption of the vehicles in question. if you put 5 people in a Toyota Corolla, giving 30 miles per gallon, and 5 in a Maybach, giving 9 miles per gallon, the Toyota works out more cheaply, on passenger average, if the same distance is travelled. it all depends on the variables, Ron. as i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them.
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 2:42 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"EDUCATION NEEDS TO IMPROVE"
Another key area of complaint is the education system.
Its quality is the second-worst in Latin America, after Paraguay, according to an executive opinion survey from the World Economic Forum. The Dominican Republic ranks 133rd out of 139 nations worldwide. It does even worse when it comes to math and science, ranking 136 of 139 nations, making it the fourth-worst worldwide and the worst in Latin America.
“The country’s dismal educational and health levels arguably represent the country’s medium- and long-term Achilles heels,” Glovista Investments’ Asilis says.
Government officials such as Van der Horst, who works to improve competitiveness, echo similar concerns. “One of the main challenges of our country is to strengthen the education system, innovation and the culture of quality,” he says.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 11 Dec 2011 2:44 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
“By strengthening education, we [would be] encouraging the creation of qualified human capital, in accordance with the demand from the current market, as well as creating the conditions for entrepreneurship so people can develop independently and generate wealth for themselves and the nation.”
And this a quote from a econmic publication, that like you, thinks LIE-onel walks on water!
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 3:08 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them"
Now, you're really beginning to annoy me, buddy. But I won't let you. You're coming back with this nonsense about Toyotas and Maybachs.
I will not discuss logic with idiots that refuse to understand it.
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 3:37 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Alright, Josean. I'll agree with you on all you said.
But you're digressing. At this point in time, we're not talking about education and such.
Were discussing the merits of investing in a rapid-transit system, or not. That is the subject at hand.
Apparently you and others don't really grasp the concept of prioritizing.
Let's say my aunt Petronila, (her real name), was sick and needed her appendix out. but also my children were hungry for food, and we had no money for both. A real predicament, won't you say?
Well, what would you do? In my case, I would let my children go hungry for a day. They may suffer but my aunt's life is saved.
The same analogy applies here. The Metro saves lives and a lot of money that can be later invested in feeding ourselves. You and others refuse to look at figures that don't lie. As I reiterated, The DR spends 4 and 3/4 Billion dollars annually in purchasing oil. The metro can reduce that amount tremendously. What's so hard to grasp, here?
From: United States, NJ
All 3 of you are correct each in a diferent ways,
RoneEvans :Electricity is not cheap no matter where it comes from. If it is hydo-electic still has to be converted into electricity AC by means of generators that have to be well maintained then comes into play the step up-step down power transformers to be send to the grid followed by the traction power to the 3rd rail after it has been rectified .Then each car is equiped with 2 -10 tons
unit AC since it is a tropical country and AC is going to be required 24/7.As it is we don't have adeqate power for the capital . They have not constructed a power station for the METRO ,so take it from there.
Written by: airgordo, 12 Dec 2011 1:07 AM
From: Dominican Republic
something to add...RonEvane please don't be naive, the MORE fuel it is sold the More TAXES the goverment gets!!
From: United States
Written by: RonEvane, 11 Dec 2011 3:08 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them"
Now, you're really beginning to annoy me, buddy. But I won't let you. You're coming back with this nonsense about Toyotas and Maybachs.
I will not discuss logic with idiots that refuse to understand it.
RonEvane, this subject matter is outside the range of your effective intellectual firepower. suffice it to say, observing you grappling with these notions is like watching a man trying to catch a fly in the dark. i used the Maybach example to try to illustrate the fallacy of your argument. you mention that the metro can carry more passengers at a time than a carrito can. so, let me reiterate, with the same example. if a Toyotal Corolla gives 30 miles per gallon, and carries 5 passengers, the average cost per passenger is less than a Maybach, with 15 passengers, that gives 9 miles to the gallon.
From: United States
in the likely case that the elementary mathematics of the example defies your limited understandings, i will break out the crayons, in short order. meanwhile, return to jugando gallo, for now.
Written by: riosm, 12 Dec 2011 12:38 PM
From: United States
That did it it's motorcycles, mopeds, bicycles, horses, burro's and walking.
From: Dominican Republic
@airgordo,
Fuel, in Dominican Rep. is subsidized.
Written by: RonEvane, 12 Dec 2011 7:04 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"RonEvane, this subject matter is outside the range of your effective intellectual firepower.'"
Mr. Dread I won't bite into your, not-so-veiled insult.
You have a very annoying habit of patronizing and grand-standing when exchanging talk with others. You used this approach to intimidate, and with your deluded grandeur, try to make idiotic theories sound logical.
Mr. You have no idea what I'm capable of. You don't know me or what I know. This crap about Toyotas and Maybachs won't fly with me.
When you're off of your drug-induced delusions. we'll talk. In the mean time, enjoy it but stay off the keyboard.
Written by: RonEvane, 12 Dec 2011 7:30 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"something to add...RonEvane please don't be naive, the MORE fuel it is sold the More TAXES the goverment gets!!
Not so, Airgordo. Taxes on imports are imposed for many reasons, the least of which is to make money.
In this case, It is done to rein in consumption. The more DR imports, the poorer we become.
It is in our best interest to export more than we import. Money spent on oil, will never be recovered.
So, the less we use, the better off we are.
From: United States
Mr. You have no idea what I'm capable of. You don't know me or what I know. This crap about Toyotas and Maybachs won't fly with me.
it won´t fly with you, because you are too dense to understand simple mathematics. there is no ¨idiotic theory¨, except when an idiot like you thinks that it is. it is simple arithmetic. when you put down the silly putty and Lego, someone might explain it to you. for now, stick to nintendo. as for patronizing, i believe you are the one who asked me if i had ever heard of the term ¨passenger miles¨. that is a condescending question, aimed at me, from a guy who is not equipped to argue this matter with me. something else, maybe. project evaluation economics...i do not think so.
Written by: RonEvane, 12 Dec 2011 9:32 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"it won´t fly with you, because you are too dense to understand simple mathematics. there is no
¨idiotic theory¨, except when an idiot like you thinks that it is."
Yes you're right, Mr. Dread. I am an idiot. I admit to it because to be arguing with fools, is a total exercise in futility and it is idiotic to try to debate with someone who already knows all.
You even know how ignorant I am! Wow, how did you know?..Did my ex wife tell you? Or her church pastor? They are all in agreement about my mental capacity! Oh, well. I've been found out....Shit!
Anyway, sir, this is all redundant. The metro is being built and there's nothing anyone can do about it....Case closed.
Written by: riosm, 12 Dec 2011 10:01 PM
From: United States
Oh well there goes another waste of some one else's money......being that the DR will never pay back.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Dec 2011 9:14 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
On a side note. As we all know, petroleum is finite. It will progressively become scarcer and more expensive, until it cannot be afforded by anyone but the very rich. No more private vehicles, “conchos”, or taxis. Unless they run on Biodiesel, which is another matter.
Most will have to rely on the metro in cities, and locomotives traversing our country powered by either electricity or biodiesel. This is when we’d look back and thank ourselves for building the metro.
I, for one, will be happy to see oil become a thing of the past. Nothing’s more polluting and dangerous to our planet and general health, than this is.
We’ll be forced to find alternative energy sources. Biodiesel, extracted from the Jatropha bush or cultured algae, and others, will provide the fuel needed to run diesel engines but not standard gas engines. Those can run on Methyl alcohol but are not as efficient.
My point here is. We need to change our mentality and think and plan hard for a future without oil.
From: United States
RonEvane informs
We’ll be forced to find alternative energy sources. Biodiesel, extracted from the Jatropha bush or cultured algae, and others, will provide the fuel needed to run diesel engines but not standard gas engines
jatropha bush, Ron? i crunched the numbers on that, and, with the daily demand for diesel fuel in the DR, you would get 6 days supply if you planted half of all the arable land in the country in jatropha. that, by the way, is best possible case scenario.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Dec 2011 1:23 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
The estimated population of Santo Domingo in 2010 was 3,294,385.
If a sewage system were to be built to collect the poop generated by just half its citizens in one day, each person averaging 150lbs, would defecate roughly 2.8lbs. The methane potentially extracted by this amount, would be 6.1 cubic feet of gas per person, per day.
So, half the figure above comes to 1,647,192 persons, Multiplied by 6.1 = 10,047,871 cubic feet. Or 3,349,290 cubic METERS of gas, per day.
The gross heat of combustion of one cubic meter of gas is 39 megajoules, or 10.8 Kilowatts of electricity, times 3,349,290 = 36,172,336 kilowatts, or roughly, 36.2 megawatts per day.
Total installed capacity for DR (2008 est.) = 14.1 megawatts per day.
Written by: airgordo, 13 Dec 2011 1:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: Arcangel96, 12 Dec 2011 12:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@airgordo,
Fuel, in Dominican Rep. is subsidized.
---
EXCUSE ME...I LIVE on DR and I PAY almost the DOUBLE of the cost on USA, Subsidized My @ss!!! for each gallon of fuel the goverment gets 70 pesos!!! i suggest you to READ and RESEARCH before posting a montruosity like this...Now on top of the Taxes that i have to pay CASH out of my pocket, DR is on Petro-caribe, that allows the goverment to pay JUST 50% of the cost of fuel, the other one becomes a Debt that is reaching 3 billion dollars!! YET I HAVE TO PAY CASH ON THE PUMP OR HIT THE DUST!!!
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Dec 2011 2:02 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Yes, you’re right. Dread. But jatropha isn't the only source for oils. There are myriad other sources such as African palm, coconut, Japanese elm, even animal fat.
Then there’s Algae, which holds the most promise. Compare to anything else, it yields huge quantities of oil. Problem is, that production depends on nutrients. The more of it, the more oil you’re going to get.
Another problem is that it requires lots of sunshine and a steady water temperature. I’m thinking setting up ponds in the Southwest desert and feed it animal and human waste. That may or may not be a solution, I don’t know. We’ll see.
From: United States
Ron, forget algae. three years back, some guys from Europe looked at it, and it was not feasible. the most important thing to consider is the input vs the output. it probably takes more energy to produce a gallon of algae biodiesel than the fuel releases. i have looked at all these alternatives, and i see none that is workable in the DR. the energy costs are just too high.
From: Dominican Republic
@airgordo,
Alrighty, I'm sorry my post upset you this much. My apologies. What I wanted to say was that, in the context of public transportation, when it comes to the fuel used by the major transportation syndicates, it is subsidized. I hope you feel better now. :)
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Dec 2011 8:43 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"It probably takes more energy to produce a gallon of algae biodiesel than the fuel releases. i have looked at all these alternatives, and i see none that is workable in the DR. the energy costs are just too high."
Alright, then. What would you propose is a good alternative to oil? None at all? Or maybe something else? What?
Written by: riosm, 13 Dec 2011 10:17 PM
From: United States
LOL Help bring the price of fossil fuels down........ride a bike, moped or buy a horse and with modern genetic technology create a super horse, just think of the horse power and all that free manure for planting.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 10:23 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
As long as we're "wasting" money on a useless subway, we might as well waste another billion dollars and build a sewage system in West SD, to collect poop and turn it into methane gas and fertilizer.
If you were to look up my post above, you'll get all the facts and figures. The system can be built in 4 to 6 years.
Methane and so-called natural gas, are one and the same. It can be used to generate electricity and power our vehicles, among other uses.
From: United States
Ron, i admire your impetus to develop alternatives to fossil fuels, for all the good reasons described in copious literature regarding the decline in petroleum reserves, and Peak Oil. well, i see things differently. we have a crisis in countries such as ours, because we use too much fuel. we have too much pollution, because cars blow so much smoke. we have downtime, because cars are stuck in traffic, waiting for lights to change. we need a holistic approach , a forward vision, like the Asians have. we think in election cycles, they think in 10 year plans. we have too much traffic in places like Santo Domingo for 2 reasons. one, there are too many people, per square mile, driving cars. in an urban setting, when you put more than 2000 cars per lane, per mile, you get catastrophic traffic breakdown. evil driving habits, excess speed, and lane cutting, occasioned by the average philistine, exaggerates the problem. secondly, people have to travel too much.
From: United States
if you need to get a passport in the USA, you can apply for it at the post office. why does some guy from Manzanillo have to ride 6 hours, to go to Santo Domingo, to get certain matters taken care of? how about better location planning, to SAVE fuel? then, when he gets to the capital, he has to go to ten different places, to get various forma, tests, and all pertinent needs? why not centralize such operations, so a guy could WALK to the places he needs to go, in order to get one matter taken care of? it is planning that is needed. we must think differently. it is counterintuitive to eat one pound of salt in your daily diet, then take a battery of prescription drugs to treat the resultant hypertension.
From: United States
finally, Ron, we have no sense of sacrifice, for the greater good. the Asians understand society to be a jig saw puzzle, wherein all the parts fit, to create a single picture. they understand the importance of working together, as a unit, and taking bitter medicine, in order to reach a goal. that is why it is illegal to spit in public, litter, urinate in public, or leave a flush toilet unflushed, or chew gum in Singapore. in the Caribbean, the aforementioned are acceptable ways of life. slash and burn individualism, every men for himself. i remember when my former boss, the late Prime Minister of Jamaica, Michael Manley , ran Jamaica. his response to the 1974 oil crisis was to ban the importation of cars with engines larger than 2000 cc. that was to conserve fuel. imagine the hue and cry that would cause here. the 8 cylinder jeepeta fraternity would go into paroxysms of rage, having been deprived of their privilege to inconvenience the society at large
Written by: riosm, 14 Dec 2011 12:14 PM
From: United States
On another related matter...
Traffic law enforcement, stiff fines and if necessary vehicle impounds are much needed in the DR.
Last Sunday I received terrible news of a good employee of mine and his wife while riding a motorcycle were hit [t-boned] by a speeding car at an intersection running a red light, both are in intensive care his wife lost her leg.
With the holiday season fast approaching I wonder how many more traffic accidents/deaths will result in the non-enforcement of traffic laws before something is done ?
Dominicans need to realize that driving a 2 ton steel vehicle at high speeds recklessly is a deadly weapon and a accident waiting to happen.
The color, race and origin of nationality.....I left out intentionally for ignorance, bad judgement and stupidity knows no bounds.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 7:19 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Dread. For once, I totally agree with all you postings......Oh, oh.....This could be a bad omen!!...
Anyway, it amazes me how anything gets done and why more people aren't killed on the road in this chaos, AKA, DR!
Whenever I visited, I had to spend additional bucks hiring relatives and friends to drive me around because I was too terrified to do it myself. I hope to retire soon there, but nowhere near SD. It's just too crazy a city.
It's also crazy that one needs to go all over to get pertinent documents instead of a centralized location. If this were so, the savings in time and money could probably pay for the planned rail line to Santiago and beyond.
As you said, "it is planning that is needed."...Most of us, Dominicans, don't have that skill. ..alas!
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 7:38 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"The color, race and origin of nationality.....I left out intentionally for ignorance, bad judgement and stupidity knows no bounds."
That's right, Riosm. All of the above. But the mother of them all, is obviously Ignorance, caused by the malingering attitude and stance by our shitty government. It has failed miserably in providing proper, or even a half-arsed, education to the younger generation who'll grow up to be just like the prior, thereby perpetuating chaos, disorder and misery, ad infinitum... Coño!
Written by: riosm, 14 Dec 2011 7:47 PM
From: United States
RonEvane
I couldn't agree with you more.
As much as I hate to drive in the DR when I'm there and I find myself with no choice I find it much safer to drive from 6am to 11am less cars on the road to hit or be hit by......but never in Santo Domingo.
When I'm dependent on relatives for transportation and there doing the driving I become that extra pair of eyes and ears.
From: United States, NJ
dreadlocks & RonEvans:
Both of you have a good arguments that amuses me and educates me at the same time. As they
say you are never too old to learn, Specially when it comes to alternative fuel. Ron Evan has a good point on the METRO system if it could only be extended East & West as well as North of the capital towards the Cibao region. It would be like in Rome all rds leads to Rome.
Dreadlocks has a very good argument of de-centralizing all public facilities. This was done when
Trujillo was in power and conveniently to the capitalenos was never rectified, so the capital would become the central focus.
I propose a better alternative to power to feed the national grid and that would be Nuclear Power .
Have the French build and maintain 2 power plants in Haiti & DR.Supply the nations with it and at the same time the gvt make them pay taxes on their gross. Instead of what they are doing now,paying into it over US500 millions,in form of subsidies.
Written by: riosm, 18 Dec 2011 3:11 PM
From: United States
They should of gone the monorail route it could of doubled as a sight seeing venture at half the cost and could of generated revenues to help pay back the loan.
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 3:41 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"I propose a better alternative to power to feed the national grid and that would be Nuclear Power .
Have the French build and maintain 2 power plants in Haiti & DR."}
Mr. Rancier.
If it were not for nuclear fission plant's inherent dangers, even a today's price tag to build, I would have to agree with you. The French are very adept at it. They rely on it, as a percentage of it's total power output, more than any other nation. And they're great at maintaining them.
My problem with pioneering this in DR/ Haiti, is the dilemma of what to do with the radioactive waste; some of which has a "half-life" in the thousands of years.The US has excavated a big hole on the side of a mountain to entomb waste, and now realize it won't be sufficient. It will top out in 2025.
In our case, where do we bury it?
Mr. Roy Stone and I had us a friendly discussion on this very subject. I mentioned that a by-product of fission, is the inescapable production of Plutonium. Which,....
'
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 4:12 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
....is the stuff of what atomic bombs are made out of. In our corrupt nations, it is not impossible to envision a government "worker" selling the dreaded Plutonium to radical religious fanatics, (Al Qaeda,,the Taliban), or rogue nations, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc.
Nuclear can lead us on a path of serious predicaments and dire complications. Let's not play with fire.
On the other hand, processing garbage and extracting methane from human waste, can easily and safely yield enough energy to fuel our vehicles, burn it to produce electricity, and can be used as cooking gas. Not to mention the processed or "composted" garbage into fertilizer.
The benefits of veering onto this avenue of thought, boggles the mind. WE will not only solve our land-fill conundrum, (La duquesa, Rafey), etc, and because garbage now has value, put thousands of poor people to work collecting it.
The results would be nothing but amazing. Think clean cities, plenty of energy for industry........
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 4:22 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Ron,
With all seriousness and all the respect you deserve, please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 4:23 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
....... with more and more foreign manufacturers investing -big time- due to cheap energy, which translate to greater profit for them, which translate to more jobs, bigger economy, happier, more educated people and, ultimately, a serious government.
Mr. Rancier, We have the technology to accomplish this and much more. We need not embark on a flight of fancy implementing sophisticated technology, that in the end, is nothing but a trip to nowhere.
I may be a loco dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 4:28 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
"I may be a loco dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Ron, John Lennon would proud of you but Yoko might sue you!
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 5:05 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{With all seriousness and all the respect you deserve, please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?}
Mr. Josean. The one and only sophisticated technology that does not pollute and is safe, would be FUSION. Unfortunately, it is in it's infancy stage. It consumes more energy than it puts out.
Other than that: None. You won't find any......Absolutely everything else needs either combustion or Fission to release energy with resulting, big time, pollutants.
Our sun produces energy via Fusion. This energy can be collected and used for anything. But again, our technology, (at this time), isn't sophisticated enough to compete with petroleum.
.
From: United States, NJ
You know in Florida they have 2 Nuclear Power plants and in NYS they have 2 one up-state not too far from me, another in LI.
ISRAEL has a bunch none disclosed. It has no petro nor does it have large enogh rivers to build dams or hydro-electric power. I say none disclosed because i was there last year and had a discussion with the guide who happens to be a captain in their air-force and told me so.But again the Israelites are no Dominicans or Haitians.They appreciate what they have and will not let any fuel fall in the hands of the enemy regardless who the enemy is.
About 40% of the US energy is NMUCLEAR, they just don't want any one to go nuclear for the same reason you had mentioned above ,but i think is beyond that,it must have to do with control
of the PETRO for their cars. If that was not the case why do we still polute our cities with carbon monoxide, having existing technology to do away with it .
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 6:32 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Well "Mr. Ron," don’t get you G-String in a knot I am just asking you a sincere question, no ulterior motive to embarrass or ridicule behind it.
So please if you could a simple answer to my simple question.
Thanks!
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 6:33 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 6:56 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"Well "Mr. Ron," don’t get you G-String in a knot I am just asking you a sincere question, no ulterior motive to embarrass or ridicule behind it."}
{ please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?}
I thought I had answered your question. Apparently not!
The "actual impact to the general environment, if we found a non-petroleum alternative"?.. I don't know. That would depend on the "alternative" you're talking about.
The only "fuel" I can think of to power all our ships at sea, would be solar or wind... But on land, I don't know. Electricity?
enlighten me.
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 7:28 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{" If that was not the case why do we still pollute our cities with carbon monoxide, having existing technology to do away with it."}
Because Petrol's relatively cheap, (so far), easy to get at, (so far), and it packs an energy punch!
Nothings more energy-rich than petroleum. It's no wonder why we're addicted to it!
Today's alternatives can't come near the efficiency in a gallon of gas.
The myriad uses of petroleum, makes it an incredibly valuable and useful commodity....However...
It's a "finite" substance. It is the one thing that, paradoxically, builds and destroys at the same time.
We implement it it to take care of most of energy needs, but, it's killing us in the process by chocking our cities, acidifying our lakes, streams and oceans, by destroying our ozone layer, By heating up our planet, destroying animal habitat, etc.
We can't continue to ignore the danger. We need to smarten up and get off our oiled-up easy chair.
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 8:54 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Ron,
It was not a trick question. Honestly no one hates waste more than me. I hate plastic bags, cups Styrofoam etc.
My simple question was to point out a simple fact that sometimes we lose sight of, at least me. We unfortunately live in the petroleum age. Once we moved from wood produced steam to the coal and kerosene era all bets were off.
Just look at everything on you (I hope your dressed I have heard about you freaky dickey near DC types) and around there is nothing in your immediate surroundings that is not based on petroleum in some way, either as a base material source or a manufacturing catalyst of some sort.
The idea of petroleum-less society will be very, very difficult to achieve in the near or even not so near future. Now if we are talking about a less petroleum user society we may have a chance.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 8:55 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
However, this would require regulatory economic policies than in this era of anything goes neo-liberal capitalism, where individual property rights are sacrosanct and the concept of “public good” is an evil Marxist plot to enslave humanity, I doubt we will see much progress. And thats in the educated Good Ole USA were we have moved “forward” in our body politic and where “serious” political candidates for the presidency don’t believe in evolution.
Imagine here in DR where the right to a free world class education guaranteed by a constitutionally enshrined funding formula is shitted upon by the president and he gets a away with it.
Now add to that the BRICS nations that say you western democracies had a hundred years advantage over us to develop with no or little population regulation and now you what use to stifle our economies to make up for the pollution and possible irreparable damage you guys have already done.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 8:56 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
So you see Ron the magnitude of the problem is enormous and only with education can we begin to give people the knowledge to understand it, acknowledge it and begin to develop the tools and skills to address it, on a worldwide scale.
Written by: RonEvane, 18 Dec 2011 10:48 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"However, this would require regulatory economic policies than in this era of anything goes neo-liberal capitalism, where individual property rights are sacrosanct and the concept of “public good” is an evil Marxist plot to enslave humanity,"}
Frankly, Mr. Josean, I don't understand diddley what your point is. Please translate for me. My English isn't that good. I thought we were talking bout alternative energies. Weren't we? I mean, I don't know!...were we?
Written by: josean, 18 Dec 2011 11:34 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Ron the point is there is neither the political will (petro lobby is to strong and buys politicians at a dime a dozen) nor is there the public demand (lack of knowledge on the public’s part as to the impending dangers) to get off the addiction to oil.
In addition to the fact that most of our daily world is based on oil not just the portion that we use to transport ourselves Capiche!
From: United States
RonEvane, i see where you posted the song , Imagine, in your entry above. do yourself a favor, in the event that you have not done so, already. go to youtube, and look for Herbie Hancock's Imagine Project, and listen to his version. awesome stuff, which i know that a man of your bearing will enjoy.
Written by: RonEvane, 19 Dec 2011 1:21 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Capiche!?
Uhm...er..No!
Written by: RonEvane, 19 Dec 2011 11:40 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{" in the event that you have not done so, already. go to youtube, and look for Herbie Hancock's Imagine Project, and listen to his version. awesome stuff."}
Hot diggity dog, man! Herbie's my Rasta!
Thoroughly dug it all, up 'n down! Mainly felt bumps for "Stars in your eyes", and "Sun touch".
Had a flash back to my salad (weedy) days!... Wished I had a joint and some cake!
From: United States, NJ
RoneEvane:
Dreadlocks:
There is an Island in the Smaller Atilles,that produces lots of fuel-gas for cooking as well as for DR power plant. My question is this why can't we conduct business with them to supply us with natural gas? It is much ceaper than petro and cleaner for our cars as well as for those power plants turbines.
We can't just rely on Venezuela to sell us Petrolium,a day might come when they might say no!
As it is now we have one pp that produces around 280MW and is the largest in DR.Five more like it will be sufficient for the DR including for the METRO and future lines.
There was on this week an article here of a US$250mn to create in DR a solar power plant that only yiels 50mw ,when the sun is out. That same amount of money could be applied to a gas driven turbines and generate 6 times more all year round.
Written by: RonEvane, 26 Dec 2011 11:28 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"My question is this why can't we conduct business with them to supply us with natural gas? It is much ceaper than petro and cleaner for our cars as well as for those power plants turbines."}
Mr. Rancier. The answer to that is: ..Because we can produce this gas ourselves!. The technology isn't sophisticated and components, and materials are readily available.
The components are simply the infrastructure to put it together....concrete, metals and certain types of neoprene plastics.
The "materials" is just garbage and human excrement! That's all!! There's nothing mysterious about an Methane Digester. Anyone can build one, even you or I! It just takes a little time, money and effort... that's all!
In places like Germany, Spain and, notably, India, It is a proven, much researched alternative to petrol.. We need not buy fuel from any nation. We have the means to, not only produce enought for ourselves, but to export, as well..!
From: United States, NJ
Dreadlocks:
I want your comment to my article posted , i don't think Mr RonEvane understood my question in regards to natural gas and importing same from our neighboring Smaller Antilles. This would be for our immediate use, as well as for power generation.Start building 5 more power plants at once
propelled by gas turbines.This will satisfy the national need for electricity.
Written by: RonEvane, 28 Dec 2011 7:09 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Rancier.
"Natural" gas and Methane gas, are one and the same!.. The only difference is that the former was produce from decaying matter millions of years ago; and the latter, can be generated today by the same process.
Again. they are both, molecularly, the SAME thing! Me entiendes?
Written by: josean, 28 Dec 2011 7:23 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
From: United States, NJ
RonEvane;
I understand quit well what you are saying and I agree, but what is the sense of investing in such a processing plant when it is altready available at the Smaller Antilles and at the same time break away from VENEZUELA.
You know that for every project in DR we must come to the USA for a loan to built such a thing,beside they will turn us down the moment we want to break away from their petro, Will be double expenses: the alternators ran by methane that propells the tubines for the power plants and the processor,
Written by: RonEvane, 29 Dec 2011 5:59 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{I understand quit well what you are saying and I agree, but what is the sense of investing in such a processing plant when it is altready available at the Smaller Antilles}
With all due respect sir, perhaps you don't.
Methane gas is naturally produced by the process of decaying organic matter. In other words, anything that rots, produces methane as a by-product.
The" processing plant" you speak of, is simply a garbage dump, covered with a tarp, (a strong, non-degradable plastic) and PVC piping driven deep into the ground to extract the gas produced by the decomposing garbage. That's all there is to it!
When you consider landfills such as "La duquesa" in SD, and "Rafey" in Santiago, the potential for enought energy to satisfy our national needs are present and real.
Written by: josean, 29 Dec 2011 6:10 PM
From: United States, Show your Love for DR Vote AGAINST the PLD!
Well Shiver Me Timbers look who is “Off Topic”now!
From: United States, NJ
If it is so easy ,why is it not done and have to suffer those apagones?
From: United States, NJ
RonEvane:
I think you are living in an UTOPIAN world ,not DR where all they want is fast money no matter where it comes from to solve their immediate needs.Same as for the fuel for the power plants and national needs for cooking, instead of the HAITIANS deforesting the land for charcoal I think all they have is one that generates close to 280MW methane gas driven .We need 10 like that one to yiel 2800 MW for the nation. If they could borrow close to 2billion dollars for the Metro ,why can't they borrow another billion and have the BRAZILIAN build the dam thing since there is no brains?
The way you describe it sounds so easy in theory ,how about in practice ?How are we going to collect all that gas and bring it over to multiple containers for multiple uses?
Written by: RonEvane, 29 Dec 2011 9:46 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Rancier.
You do know that a few of our electricity generating plants are fueled by natural gas, do you not?
a few are also hybrid, using Coal or Diesel. Right?
Now, sir. let me ask you: how do you think these fuels are collected, (drilled, mined, or syphoned), from the earth? And how do you think these are brought over to generators, gas stations, and propane distributors? It does take some effort, doesn't it?
{"The way you describe it sounds so easy in theory ,how about in practice ?How are we going to collect all that gas and bring it over to multiple containers for multiple uses"}
In answer to your question: The same way I have just described above! ......Actually, it's much easier to produce and collect methane gas, than it is to mine it from the ground!
Google: "Methane digester", then tell me what you think. OK?
From: United States
RonEvane says
In answer to your question: The same way I have just described above! ......Actually, it's much easier to produce and collect methane gas, than it is to mine it from the ground!
actually, it is not. at the natural sources of natural gas, there are millions of cubic meters of the gas, in one location. you can build an installation in one spot, and mine , in situ, for many years. the problem with methane digestors is that they have to be continually supplied witthe the raw materials. that involves sourcing, transport, and waste disposal. it also involves the process, which requires energy. the costs of the plants, from a capital standpoint, are prohibitive, in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiences are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense.
Written by: RonEvane, 30 Dec 2011 9:41 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{" the costs of the plants, from a capital standpoint, are prohibitive, in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiences are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense."}
What "plants" are you referring to, Mr. Dread? The "plants" are already there in the form of landfills.
Granted, the gas is diffused and need to be concentrated, but it is there for the taking.
The "capital investments", consists of large plastic tarps to cover and contain escaping gas and a series of PVC pipes sank into said dump at various depths and distances.
The gas is funneled into these interconnected piping and stored into an array of tanks or into the ground.
{" the problem with methane digesters is that they have to be continually supplied with the raw materials."}
The "raw material" you speak of are the tons of garbage we generate every day. Whether we make good use of it or not, it still needs to be carted off to the dump. Would you rather
Written by: RonEvane, 30 Dec 2011 10:02 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
....it gets piled up high 'till there's no more space? and then go find some other place to do the same?... and on and on with no end? ....Or would you rather make use of said refuse?.... At the very least, the energy needed in collecting thrash, can be supplied by methane-powered trucks, instead of the natura-gas fueled trucks, used today; burning gas, bought from other countries, at a high price.
Before you conclude:
,{" in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiency are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense."}
I suggest you become more familiarized with the science, and do the proper calculations to arrive at an accurate conclusion, as I have.
From: United States, NJ
Mr RoneEvane:
My point was ,the gas already exist and it is cheaper than petro for the immediate use by the tubines to generate electricity.
Methane as use by the bigest power plant in DR is more effective than the crude oil Diesel or
Coal after the pulverization process ,and it is cleaner. Either one have to be imported and refine in form of gasoline or Diesel fuel.Althought Diesel engines are the norm in DR due to the efficiency of the motors is not the most economical,You also have to remember methane gas is highly volatile and have to be handle very carefull since it is pressurize and the service stations don't find it practical.
In answer to your question if it is so simple and inexpensive to get the methane out of the landfills
why it has not been done?. Belive me i would prfere to get it cheap and easy, if there is a way.
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Facebook
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
If that would be Hipolito's idea, he will be transporting those 250,000 people in dunkies and cows..
That's what I call progress..
Only PLD can do it..Whether you like it or not..!
From: United States
Perfect! Great news..
If that would be Hipolito's idea, he will be transporting those 250,000 people in dunkies and cows..
That's what I call progress..
no , Victor. progress is when you understand what it is COSTING the country to have this exercise in bad judgement.
risom,
I am sure you will find what you are looking for here:
http://www.acento.com.do/index.ph....archinput=metro&submit=Enviar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway
$17 mil millones de dolares...
( ';' )
"That's what I call progress.."
Progress would be a country that could provide a simple breakfast to its children without causing an epidemic of diarrhea.
Progress would be a country where you didn’t have to take your own bed sheets and medicines to the “hospital.”
Progress would be a country would be a country were autopsies are not conducted on the side of the road.
Progress would be a country where you take a taxi because your tired, not out fear being mugged and not have to worry that the cabdriver may also rob you.
Progress would be a country where the president would obey the constitution and provide 4% for education so our children would have a fighting opportunity to rise out of poverty.
The rest is just METROLANDIA a fantasy of progress!
What the purple clapping ignoramuses (or pretend to be so for political purpose) don’t understand is that question is not about whether it cost 1 peso or a Billion dollars.
The questions were, are and always will be, "was it a priority that required the mortgaging of the country when the basic services like education, healthcare, safety and security are abysmal."
And the resounding collective answer of NO will be given by the Dominican masses via their vote on May 20th, 2012!!
Which one came first, el huevo o la gallina / Catch-22!
Nobody is not talking about "no infrastructure and other capital investments"
And its not about the chicken or the egg , its about putting the CART of the non-prority METRO before the HORSE of education, which is what really pulls societies forward into progress, genius.
Its is "Capital investments" in education that has had the most dynamic effect on the gereation of revenues in human history.
I wonder how the world got along before there were METROS to create revenues for education?
I think there was education before METROS, right Socrates, Aristotle, Da Vinci, Galileo, Copernicus and Albert E; what do you guys think?
"That's what I call progress.."
Progress would be a country that could provide a simple breakfast to its children without causing an epidemic of diarrhea.
Progress would be a country where you didn’t have to take your own bed sheets and medicines to the “hospital.”.......
Progress is a society where its citizens walk what they talk, teach their kids with action s and not words...teach their kids not to steal by paying the monthly electric, water and cable bills, teach their kids not to steal when you buy the original (copyright copy) of the Disney movie they want to watch, teach your kids by standing on line to renew the license plate or to obtain a birth certificate and not to pay the buscones for a quick way out...It always easier to teach your kids to complain to everyone else about the conditions affecting our families and ourselves when we are the first who break the law and pay la mordida in a way to teach them how to be a tiguerazo...
Nada viene de la nada!
Our government can be corrupt at times but this is a good way of showing how much it cares for the society's well-being when transporting themselves from one place to another. Kudos to our government and people alike!"
At times? When is it not corrupt?
A good way of showing how much it cares for the society's well-being when transporting them from on place to another? Unfortunately they can't take it to their jobs. There are none.
Looks like all 477 riders every day are enjoying the hell out of the Metro.
And kudos to you Eriliza for posting your government sponsored BS here.
"Nada viene de la nada!"
Now juan thats a profound PLD talking point!
"The main problem with the second line is that it is not what was planned'
Just like the First Line!
Josean You Must be PISSED OFF that the Metro is working as it should and the second line is soon to be in operation...
jajajjajajaa
Josean: "Just like the First Line! "
Even in mighty NYC, big item projects get modified due to cost and/or politics. Go ask the MTA about Subway No.7 extension to the West Side!
It's reality, not just DR-alitity!!!
( ';' )
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/nyregion/17tunnel.html
been operated by NYCTA. As far as 1935 when the GW built by MTA ,the NYCTA visioned an extension of the the IND into NJ thru the lower deck of the GW,but FT LEE rejected the idea. Think
about it ....invaded by low life poor New yorkers coming into FT LEE an exclusive JEWISH section then as it is now. SECAUCUS is diferent been an industrial area. Still needs MTA aproval which
NYCTA will not get . The tunnel vision was a diferent story,since MTA needs a newer one in addition to the LINCOLN aged one.
"It's reality, not just DR-alitity!!!'
Wow! Did you come up with that all by yourself?
So Lie-onel how is that METRO thing working out for you:
"Fernandez is the second worst valued President of Central America"
“The worse valued rulers in the region, according to Cid Gallup, are the Dominican Republic Leonel Fernández (22%) and Colom, of Guatemala with 17%.”
Well Lie-onel look at it on the bright side after they finish the second useless line of the METRO you could earn the title of the WORST PRESIDENT in Central America.
You know that I wish you nothing but the best in reaching that goal!
http://www.7dias.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=112748
;-)
From: United States, Brooklyn
Josean You Must be PISSED OFF that the Metro is working as it should and the second line is soon to be in operation...
jajajjajajaa
---
I'm pissed of that this stupid Metro was build at the expense of BASIC stuff like Running Water and Electricity!!!
I'm pissed of that this thing was NOT REQUESTED by anyone on this country, NO ONE asked for this!! yet the MOney FLOWS easily to it
I'm pissed that the LAW that gives 4% FOR EDUCATION is not complied due to "lack of resources" but the METRO that moves a MICROSCOPIC amount of people on a even smaller part of santo domingo HAS MONEY.
airgordo,
I like your Prose!
Don't worry that in the real Dominican world, not the fantasy that the clapping seals here on DT want to make the world believe exists, or the METROLANDIA of Lie-onel, the Dominican Walt Disney , most people, if not the majority agree with our point of view!
THE METRO SUCKS and those who defend it are SUCKERS!
"Josean what do you care, you're not even Dominican."
What? Where does this clown come from? And why is he/she bashing my country instead of his/her?
Hey, a-hole. what are you doing on my web-site? You ain't no Dominican! Go bash your own f'king country!
I'm sick of your shit and will fight you all the way! Maricon, hijo de tu maldita madre!
You've got yourself a fight, mother sucker!
If the shoe fits wear it!
THE METRO SUCKS and those who defend it are SUCKERS!
As to "Maricon, hijo de tu maldita madre!" you must have me confused with your hero Lie-onel!
Let me spell it out for you, dude.
According to the CIA world factbook, DR consumes 119,000 barrels of oil PER DAY.(2010 figures).
At today's price of 99.41 per barrel, it comes to 11,829,790 dollars spent, PER DAY.
Times 365 days = 4 billion, 317 million, 873, thousand, 350 dollars. PER YEAR.
Out of this money, a good portion goes to power our many SUVs and inefficient chatarras.
It also goes to generate electricity.
How much did the metro's first line cost? One billion? How much is the second line gonna cost? Another billion? How much is a gallon of regular gas cost in DR today? >$5.00 bucks.
How much is a one-way ride in the metro? 20 pesos? +,- ? that's like $0.26 cents, USD.
Now tell me honestly Mr Josean, would you not rather take the metro and save yourself, at least $4.00 dollars?.... Where do you think all these billions of dollars DR spends in oil every year goes to? Answer that question, and we'll talk some more.
From: United States
airgordo,
I like your Prose!
i like it, too.
Well Mr. "The Destiny of DR Revolves around the METRO" you forgot one thing in you "brilliant” economic analysis of the costs and benefits; how much is the annual subsidy for the Magic Choo-Choo Train?
And do people still use the word “dude”, I thought that went out with the 8-track!
" save the numbers crunching for economists. your references to the cost of petroleum sound like you think that the Metro runs without energy. ever stop to think of the farebox losses it is incurring?ever consider that it will have to be subsidized, in perpetuity?"
Ever stop to think how much more efficient a bus can be, vs. a car? Have you ever heard of the term "passenger miles"? Well, let me tell you. It has to do with the fact that a bus can transport more people for the same gallon of gas used than the average car can.
The same concept applies to a metro car. It simply means that for the same energy in a gallon of gas, it can transport that many more people than a bus can. This simple physics observation can be multiplied exponentially if electricity is generated to power the metro other than by burning oil.
Even if the metro have to be "subsidized in perpetuity", this money goes to pay for maintenance or whatever. It stays in DR. it does not go to Venezuela for oil....
You want to close your eyes to the FACT that DR spends billions, to power inefficient combustion engines, every year. Enough to build a metro line every single year, with a couple of billions left over!
Aside from being extremely efficient, when "passenger miles", are taken in consideration, Electricity to power the metro can be had by hydro-power.
Not only is the metro fast, safe and cheap to ride, It puts a lot of cars out of circulation thereby, limiting pollution and saving about $4.50 USD a gallon, in gas not spent.
The less oil bought, the more money that stays here and can be used,(if someone doesn't steal it, first), for the welfare of the people. And, no Mr. Dread, I will not "save the numbers crunching for the economists". These are figures that need to be looked into before you formulate an opinion and make an ass of yourself.
So after all that FUNGOLDE Mumbo Jumbo what is the annual subsidy for the Magic Choo-Choo Train?
Mr Josean. I've already figured into the equation that it won't be cheap to maintain and run a metro.
I'm sure it'll run into the millions of dollars. So you're right about that.
But the one thing you, et,al, have not done, is to look into the savings in oil NOT bought!
Have you any idea how much of those 4billions+ yearly in oil expenditure will remain in DR?
Even when you figure in maintenance for the metro, You'd still be left with much more with, than without it.
Let me put it to you a bit simpler. Sometimes I walk instead of using my car. Sometimes I take the bus. It costs me $1.75 to go anywhere I want, as long as I do so within 3 hours.
A gallon of regular costs $3.85 plus the hassle of finding and paying, at least $5.00, for parking.
The Washington DC metro is also efficient safe and relatively cheap, ($3.00) for an all-day pass.
As you can see, it costs me less than a gallon of gas to go anywhere I want. Why is a simple concept like this so difficult to grasp?
The number "Adam Smith," calculated by your own PLD cadre is $25,000,000 million dollars and that assumed a ridership of 250,000 a day which they are not even close to achieving in the foreseeable future, maybe not even with the shortened second line.
However, for me personal the objection to the poorly planned political reelection gimmick was not the cost or the inefficiency, but rather its priority over for what is for me the most important problem facing DR in its ability to develop quality sustainable economic growth that impacts the majority, EDUCATION.
The will be no moving forward regardless if we fill every square inch of the republic with METROS, if we do not do something radical an immediate about our abysmal, shameful and international embarrassing education “system” PERIOD!
Ever stop to think how much more efficient a bus can be, vs. a car? Have you ever heard of the term "passenger miles"? Well, let me tell you. It has to do with the fact that a bus can transport more people for the same gallon of gas used than the average car can.
really , RonEvane? that depends upon the fuel consumption of the vehicles in question. if you put 5 people in a Toyota Corolla, giving 30 miles per gallon, and 5 in a Maybach, giving 9 miles per gallon, the Toyota works out more cheaply, on passenger average, if the same distance is travelled. it all depends on the variables, Ron. as i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them.
"EDUCATION NEEDS TO IMPROVE"
Another key area of complaint is the education system.
Its quality is the second-worst in Latin America, after Paraguay, according to an executive opinion survey from the World Economic Forum. The Dominican Republic ranks 133rd out of 139 nations worldwide. It does even worse when it comes to math and science, ranking 136 of 139 nations, making it the fourth-worst worldwide and the worst in Latin America.
“The country’s dismal educational and health levels arguably represent the country’s medium- and long-term Achilles heels,” Glovista Investments’ Asilis says.
Government officials such as Van der Horst, who works to improve competitiveness, echo similar concerns. “One of the main challenges of our country is to strengthen the education system, innovation and the culture of quality,” he says.
Continued:
“By strengthening education, we [would be] encouraging the creation of qualified human capital, in accordance with the demand from the current market, as well as creating the conditions for entrepreneurship so people can develop independently and generate wealth for themselves and the nation.”
And this a quote from a econmic publication, that like you, thinks LIE-onel walks on water!
"i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them"
Now, you're really beginning to annoy me, buddy. But I won't let you. You're coming back with this nonsense about Toyotas and Maybachs.
I will not discuss logic with idiots that refuse to understand it.
Alright, Josean. I'll agree with you on all you said.
But you're digressing. At this point in time, we're not talking about education and such.
Were discussing the merits of investing in a rapid-transit system, or not. That is the subject at hand.
Apparently you and others don't really grasp the concept of prioritizing.
Let's say my aunt Petronila, (her real name), was sick and needed her appendix out. but also my children were hungry for food, and we had no money for both. A real predicament, won't you say?
Well, what would you do? In my case, I would let my children go hungry for a day. They may suffer but my aunt's life is saved.
The same analogy applies here. The Metro saves lives and a lot of money that can be later invested in feeding ourselves. You and others refuse to look at figures that don't lie. As I reiterated, The DR spends 4 and 3/4 Billion dollars annually in purchasing oil. The metro can reduce that amount tremendously. What's so hard to grasp, here?
RoneEvans :Electricity is not cheap no matter where it comes from. If it is hydo-electic still has to be converted into electricity AC by means of generators that have to be well maintained then comes into play the step up-step down power transformers to be send to the grid followed by the traction power to the 3rd rail after it has been rectified .Then each car is equiped with 2 -10 tons
unit AC since it is a tropical country and AC is going to be required 24/7.As it is we don't have adeqate power for the capital . They have not constructed a power station for the METRO ,so take it from there.
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"i said, leave the numbers to people who understand them"
Now, you're really beginning to annoy me, buddy. But I won't let you. You're coming back with this nonsense about Toyotas and Maybachs.
I will not discuss logic with idiots that refuse to understand it.
RonEvane, this subject matter is outside the range of your effective intellectual firepower. suffice it to say, observing you grappling with these notions is like watching a man trying to catch a fly in the dark. i used the Maybach example to try to illustrate the fallacy of your argument. you mention that the metro can carry more passengers at a time than a carrito can. so, let me reiterate, with the same example. if a Toyotal Corolla gives 30 miles per gallon, and carries 5 passengers, the average cost per passenger is less than a Maybach, with 15 passengers, that gives 9 miles to the gallon.
Fuel, in Dominican Rep. is subsidized.
http://www.listin.com.do/la-repub....cio-del-pasaje-si-no-les-duplican
"RonEvane, this subject matter is outside the range of your effective intellectual firepower.'"
Mr. Dread I won't bite into your, not-so-veiled insult.
You have a very annoying habit of patronizing and grand-standing when exchanging talk with others. You used this approach to intimidate, and with your deluded grandeur, try to make idiotic theories sound logical.
Mr. You have no idea what I'm capable of. You don't know me or what I know. This crap about Toyotas and Maybachs won't fly with me.
When you're off of your drug-induced delusions. we'll talk. In the mean time, enjoy it but stay off the keyboard.
"something to add...RonEvane please don't be naive, the MORE fuel it is sold the More TAXES the goverment gets!!
Not so, Airgordo. Taxes on imports are imposed for many reasons, the least of which is to make money.
In this case, It is done to rein in consumption. The more DR imports, the poorer we become.
It is in our best interest to export more than we import. Money spent on oil, will never be recovered.
So, the less we use, the better off we are.
it won´t fly with you, because you are too dense to understand simple mathematics. there is no ¨idiotic theory¨, except when an idiot like you thinks that it is. it is simple arithmetic. when you put down the silly putty and Lego, someone might explain it to you. for now, stick to nintendo. as for patronizing, i believe you are the one who asked me if i had ever heard of the term ¨passenger miles¨. that is a condescending question, aimed at me, from a guy who is not equipped to argue this matter with me. something else, maybe. project evaluation economics...i do not think so.
"it won´t fly with you, because you are too dense to understand simple mathematics. there is no
¨idiotic theory¨, except when an idiot like you thinks that it is."
Yes you're right, Mr. Dread. I am an idiot. I admit to it because to be arguing with fools, is a total exercise in futility and it is idiotic to try to debate with someone who already knows all.
You even know how ignorant I am! Wow, how did you know?..Did my ex wife tell you? Or her church pastor? They are all in agreement about my mental capacity! Oh, well. I've been found out....Shit!
Anyway, sir, this is all redundant. The metro is being built and there's nothing anyone can do about it....Case closed.
On a side note. As we all know, petroleum is finite. It will progressively become scarcer and more expensive, until it cannot be afforded by anyone but the very rich. No more private vehicles, “conchos”, or taxis. Unless they run on Biodiesel, which is another matter.
Most will have to rely on the metro in cities, and locomotives traversing our country powered by either electricity or biodiesel. This is when we’d look back and thank ourselves for building the metro.
I, for one, will be happy to see oil become a thing of the past. Nothing’s more polluting and dangerous to our planet and general health, than this is.
We’ll be forced to find alternative energy sources. Biodiesel, extracted from the Jatropha bush or cultured algae, and others, will provide the fuel needed to run diesel engines but not standard gas engines. Those can run on Methyl alcohol but are not as efficient.
My point here is. We need to change our mentality and think and plan hard for a future without oil.
We’ll be forced to find alternative energy sources. Biodiesel, extracted from the Jatropha bush or cultured algae, and others, will provide the fuel needed to run diesel engines but not standard gas engines
jatropha bush, Ron? i crunched the numbers on that, and, with the daily demand for diesel fuel in the DR, you would get 6 days supply if you planted half of all the arable land in the country in jatropha. that, by the way, is best possible case scenario.
The estimated population of Santo Domingo in 2010 was 3,294,385.
If a sewage system were to be built to collect the poop generated by just half its citizens in one day, each person averaging 150lbs, would defecate roughly 2.8lbs. The methane potentially extracted by this amount, would be 6.1 cubic feet of gas per person, per day.
So, half the figure above comes to 1,647,192 persons, Multiplied by 6.1 = 10,047,871 cubic feet. Or 3,349,290 cubic METERS of gas, per day.
The gross heat of combustion of one cubic meter of gas is 39 megajoules, or 10.8 Kilowatts of electricity, times 3,349,290 = 36,172,336 kilowatts, or roughly, 36.2 megawatts per day.
Total installed capacity for DR (2008 est.) = 14.1 megawatts per day.
From: Dominican Republic
@airgordo,
Fuel, in Dominican Rep. is subsidized.
---
EXCUSE ME...I LIVE on DR and I PAY almost the DOUBLE of the cost on USA, Subsidized My @ss!!! for each gallon of fuel the goverment gets 70 pesos!!! i suggest you to READ and RESEARCH before posting a montruosity like this...Now on top of the Taxes that i have to pay CASH out of my pocket, DR is on Petro-caribe, that allows the goverment to pay JUST 50% of the cost of fuel, the other one becomes a Debt that is reaching 3 billion dollars!! YET I HAVE TO PAY CASH ON THE PUMP OR HIT THE DUST!!!
Yes, you’re right. Dread. But jatropha isn't the only source for oils. There are myriad other sources such as African palm, coconut, Japanese elm, even animal fat.
Then there’s Algae, which holds the most promise. Compare to anything else, it yields huge quantities of oil. Problem is, that production depends on nutrients. The more of it, the more oil you’re going to get.
Another problem is that it requires lots of sunshine and a steady water temperature. I’m thinking setting up ponds in the Southwest desert and feed it animal and human waste. That may or may not be a solution, I don’t know. We’ll see.
Alrighty, I'm sorry my post upset you this much. My apologies. What I wanted to say was that, in the context of public transportation, when it comes to the fuel used by the major transportation syndicates, it is subsidized. I hope you feel better now. :)
"It probably takes more energy to produce a gallon of algae biodiesel than the fuel releases. i have looked at all these alternatives, and i see none that is workable in the DR. the energy costs are just too high."
Alright, then. What would you propose is a good alternative to oil? None at all? Or maybe something else? What?
As long as we're "wasting" money on a useless subway, we might as well waste another billion dollars and build a sewage system in West SD, to collect poop and turn it into methane gas and fertilizer.
If you were to look up my post above, you'll get all the facts and figures. The system can be built in 4 to 6 years.
Methane and so-called natural gas, are one and the same. It can be used to generate electricity and power our vehicles, among other uses.
Traffic law enforcement, stiff fines and if necessary vehicle impounds are much needed in the DR.
Last Sunday I received terrible news of a good employee of mine and his wife while riding a motorcycle were hit [t-boned] by a speeding car at an intersection running a red light, both are in intensive care his wife lost her leg.
With the holiday season fast approaching I wonder how many more traffic accidents/deaths will result in the non-enforcement of traffic laws before something is done ?
Dominicans need to realize that driving a 2 ton steel vehicle at high speeds recklessly is a deadly weapon and a accident waiting to happen.
The color, race and origin of nationality.....I left out intentionally for ignorance, bad judgement and stupidity knows no bounds.
Dread. For once, I totally agree with all you postings......Oh, oh.....This could be a bad omen!!...
Anyway, it amazes me how anything gets done and why more people aren't killed on the road in this chaos, AKA, DR!
Whenever I visited, I had to spend additional bucks hiring relatives and friends to drive me around because I was too terrified to do it myself. I hope to retire soon there, but nowhere near SD. It's just too crazy a city.
It's also crazy that one needs to go all over to get pertinent documents instead of a centralized location. If this were so, the savings in time and money could probably pay for the planned rail line to Santiago and beyond.
As you said, "it is planning that is needed."...Most of us, Dominicans, don't have that skill. ..alas!
"The color, race and origin of nationality.....I left out intentionally for ignorance, bad judgement and stupidity knows no bounds."
That's right, Riosm. All of the above. But the mother of them all, is obviously Ignorance, caused by the malingering attitude and stance by our shitty government. It has failed miserably in providing proper, or even a half-arsed, education to the younger generation who'll grow up to be just like the prior, thereby perpetuating chaos, disorder and misery, ad infinitum... Coño!
I couldn't agree with you more.
As much as I hate to drive in the DR when I'm there and I find myself with no choice I find it much safer to drive from 6am to 11am less cars on the road to hit or be hit by......but never in Santo Domingo.
When I'm dependent on relatives for transportation and there doing the driving I become that extra pair of eyes and ears.
Both of you have a good arguments that amuses me and educates me at the same time. As they
say you are never too old to learn, Specially when it comes to alternative fuel. Ron Evan has a good point on the METRO system if it could only be extended East & West as well as North of the capital towards the Cibao region. It would be like in Rome all rds leads to Rome.
Dreadlocks has a very good argument of de-centralizing all public facilities. This was done when
Trujillo was in power and conveniently to the capitalenos was never rectified, so the capital would become the central focus.
I propose a better alternative to power to feed the national grid and that would be Nuclear Power .
Have the French build and maintain 2 power plants in Haiti & DR.Supply the nations with it and at the same time the gvt make them pay taxes on their gross. Instead of what they are doing now,paying into it over US500 millions,in form of subsidies.
{"I propose a better alternative to power to feed the national grid and that would be Nuclear Power .
Have the French build and maintain 2 power plants in Haiti & DR."}
Mr. Rancier.
If it were not for nuclear fission plant's inherent dangers, even a today's price tag to build, I would have to agree with you. The French are very adept at it. They rely on it, as a percentage of it's total power output, more than any other nation. And they're great at maintaining them.
My problem with pioneering this in DR/ Haiti, is the dilemma of what to do with the radioactive waste; some of which has a "half-life" in the thousands of years.The US has excavated a big hole on the side of a mountain to entomb waste, and now realize it won't be sufficient. It will top out in 2025.
In our case, where do we bury it?
Mr. Roy Stone and I had us a friendly discussion on this very subject. I mentioned that a by-product of fission, is the inescapable production of Plutonium. Which,....
'
....is the stuff of what atomic bombs are made out of. In our corrupt nations, it is not impossible to envision a government "worker" selling the dreaded Plutonium to radical religious fanatics, (Al Qaeda,,the Taliban), or rogue nations, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc.
Nuclear can lead us on a path of serious predicaments and dire complications. Let's not play with fire.
On the other hand, processing garbage and extracting methane from human waste, can easily and safely yield enough energy to fuel our vehicles, burn it to produce electricity, and can be used as cooking gas. Not to mention the processed or "composted" garbage into fertilizer.
The benefits of veering onto this avenue of thought, boggles the mind. WE will not only solve our land-fill conundrum, (La duquesa, Rafey), etc, and because garbage now has value, put thousands of poor people to work collecting it.
The results would be nothing but amazing. Think clean cities, plenty of energy for industry........
Ron,
With all seriousness and all the respect you deserve, please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?
Mr. Rancier, We have the technology to accomplish this and much more. We need not embark on a flight of fancy implementing sophisticated technology, that in the end, is nothing but a trip to nowhere.
I may be a loco dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
"I may be a loco dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Ron, John Lennon would proud of you but Yoko might sue you!
{With all seriousness and all the respect you deserve, please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?}
Mr. Josean. The one and only sophisticated technology that does not pollute and is safe, would be FUSION. Unfortunately, it is in it's infancy stage. It consumes more energy than it puts out.
Other than that: None. You won't find any......Absolutely everything else needs either combustion or Fission to release energy with resulting, big time, pollutants.
Our sun produces energy via Fusion. This energy can be collected and used for anything. But again, our technology, (at this time), isn't sophisticated enough to compete with petroleum.
.
ISRAEL has a bunch none disclosed. It has no petro nor does it have large enogh rivers to build dams or hydro-electric power. I say none disclosed because i was there last year and had a discussion with the guide who happens to be a captain in their air-force and told me so.But again the Israelites are no Dominicans or Haitians.They appreciate what they have and will not let any fuel fall in the hands of the enemy regardless who the enemy is.
About 40% of the US energy is NMUCLEAR, they just don't want any one to go nuclear for the same reason you had mentioned above ,but i think is beyond that,it must have to do with control
of the PETRO for their cars. If that was not the case why do we still polute our cities with carbon monoxide, having existing technology to do away with it .
Well "Mr. Ron," don’t get you G-String in a knot I am just asking you a sincere question, no ulterior motive to embarrass or ridicule behind it.
So please if you could a simple answer to my simple question.
Thanks!
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
{"Well "Mr. Ron," don’t get you G-String in a knot I am just asking you a sincere question, no ulterior motive to embarrass or ridicule behind it."}
{ please point out to me what would be the actual impact to the general environment if tomorrow we found a non-carbon (petroleum) based alternative energy source to fuel all our worldwide transportation needs?}
I thought I had answered your question. Apparently not!
The "actual impact to the general environment, if we found a non-petroleum alternative"?.. I don't know. That would depend on the "alternative" you're talking about.
The only "fuel" I can think of to power all our ships at sea, would be solar or wind... But on land, I don't know. Electricity?
enlighten me.
{" If that was not the case why do we still pollute our cities with carbon monoxide, having existing technology to do away with it."}
Because Petrol's relatively cheap, (so far), easy to get at, (so far), and it packs an energy punch!
Nothings more energy-rich than petroleum. It's no wonder why we're addicted to it!
Today's alternatives can't come near the efficiency in a gallon of gas.
The myriad uses of petroleum, makes it an incredibly valuable and useful commodity....However...
It's a "finite" substance. It is the one thing that, paradoxically, builds and destroys at the same time.
We implement it it to take care of most of energy needs, but, it's killing us in the process by chocking our cities, acidifying our lakes, streams and oceans, by destroying our ozone layer, By heating up our planet, destroying animal habitat, etc.
We can't continue to ignore the danger. We need to smarten up and get off our oiled-up easy chair.
It was not a trick question. Honestly no one hates waste more than me. I hate plastic bags, cups Styrofoam etc.
My simple question was to point out a simple fact that sometimes we lose sight of, at least me. We unfortunately live in the petroleum age. Once we moved from wood produced steam to the coal and kerosene era all bets were off.
Just look at everything on you (I hope your dressed I have heard about you freaky dickey near DC types) and around there is nothing in your immediate surroundings that is not based on petroleum in some way, either as a base material source or a manufacturing catalyst of some sort.
The idea of petroleum-less society will be very, very difficult to achieve in the near or even not so near future. Now if we are talking about a less petroleum user society we may have a chance.
Continued:
However, this would require regulatory economic policies than in this era of anything goes neo-liberal capitalism, where individual property rights are sacrosanct and the concept of “public good” is an evil Marxist plot to enslave humanity, I doubt we will see much progress. And thats in the educated Good Ole USA were we have moved “forward” in our body politic and where “serious” political candidates for the presidency don’t believe in evolution.
Imagine here in DR where the right to a free world class education guaranteed by a constitutionally enshrined funding formula is shitted upon by the president and he gets a away with it.
Now add to that the BRICS nations that say you western democracies had a hundred years advantage over us to develop with no or little population regulation and now you what use to stifle our economies to make up for the pollution and possible irreparable damage you guys have already done.
Continued:
So you see Ron the magnitude of the problem is enormous and only with education can we begin to give people the knowledge to understand it, acknowledge it and begin to develop the tools and skills to address it, on a worldwide scale.
{"However, this would require regulatory economic policies than in this era of anything goes neo-liberal capitalism, where individual property rights are sacrosanct and the concept of “public good” is an evil Marxist plot to enslave humanity,"}
Frankly, Mr. Josean, I don't understand diddley what your point is. Please translate for me. My English isn't that good. I thought we were talking bout alternative energies. Weren't we? I mean, I don't know!...were we?
Ron the point is there is neither the political will (petro lobby is to strong and buys politicians at a dime a dozen) nor is there the public demand (lack of knowledge on the public’s part as to the impending dangers) to get off the addiction to oil.
In addition to the fact that most of our daily world is based on oil not just the portion that we use to transport ourselves Capiche!
Capiche!?
Uhm...er..No!
{" in the event that you have not done so, already. go to youtube, and look for Herbie Hancock's Imagine Project, and listen to his version. awesome stuff."}
Hot diggity dog, man! Herbie's my Rasta!
Thoroughly dug it all, up 'n down! Mainly felt bumps for "Stars in your eyes", and "Sun touch".
Had a flash back to my salad (weedy) days!... Wished I had a joint and some cake!
Dreadlocks:
There is an Island in the Smaller Atilles,that produces lots of fuel-gas for cooking as well as for DR power plant. My question is this why can't we conduct business with them to supply us with natural gas? It is much ceaper than petro and cleaner for our cars as well as for those power plants turbines.
We can't just rely on Venezuela to sell us Petrolium,a day might come when they might say no!
As it is now we have one pp that produces around 280MW and is the largest in DR.Five more like it will be sufficient for the DR including for the METRO and future lines.
There was on this week an article here of a US$250mn to create in DR a solar power plant that only yiels 50mw ,when the sun is out. That same amount of money could be applied to a gas driven turbines and generate 6 times more all year round.
{"My question is this why can't we conduct business with them to supply us with natural gas? It is much ceaper than petro and cleaner for our cars as well as for those power plants turbines."}
Mr. Rancier. The answer to that is: ..Because we can produce this gas ourselves!. The technology isn't sophisticated and components, and materials are readily available.
The components are simply the infrastructure to put it together....concrete, metals and certain types of neoprene plastics.
The "materials" is just garbage and human excrement! That's all!! There's nothing mysterious about an Methane Digester. Anyone can build one, even you or I! It just takes a little time, money and effort... that's all!
In places like Germany, Spain and, notably, India, It is a proven, much researched alternative to petrol.. We need not buy fuel from any nation. We have the means to, not only produce enought for ourselves, but to export, as well..!
I want your comment to my article posted , i don't think Mr RonEvane understood my question in regards to natural gas and importing same from our neighboring Smaller Antilles. This would be for our immediate use, as well as for power generation.Start building 5 more power plants at once
propelled by gas turbines.This will satisfy the national need for electricity.
Mr. Rancier.
"Natural" gas and Methane gas, are one and the same!.. The only difference is that the former was produce from decaying matter millions of years ago; and the latter, can be generated today by the same process.
Again. they are both, molecularly, the SAME thing! Me entiendes?
FLASH ..................................BREAKING NEWS
Alex Rodriguez retires from Baseball
The newspaper El Diario La Prensa of New York, said that the information in this regard leaked during the past hour from various sources
http://www.almomento.net/news/127/ARTICLE/103001/2011-12-28.html
I understand quit well what you are saying and I agree, but what is the sense of investing in such a processing plant when it is altready available at the Smaller Antilles and at the same time break away from VENEZUELA.
You know that for every project in DR we must come to the USA for a loan to built such a thing,beside they will turn us down the moment we want to break away from their petro, Will be double expenses: the alternators ran by methane that propells the tubines for the power plants and the processor,
{I understand quit well what you are saying and I agree, but what is the sense of investing in such a processing plant when it is altready available at the Smaller Antilles}
With all due respect sir, perhaps you don't.
Methane gas is naturally produced by the process of decaying organic matter. In other words, anything that rots, produces methane as a by-product.
The" processing plant" you speak of, is simply a garbage dump, covered with a tarp, (a strong, non-degradable plastic) and PVC piping driven deep into the ground to extract the gas produced by the decomposing garbage. That's all there is to it!
When you consider landfills such as "La duquesa" in SD, and "Rafey" in Santiago, the potential for enought energy to satisfy our national needs are present and real.
Well Shiver Me Timbers look who is “Off Topic”now!
I think you are living in an UTOPIAN world ,not DR where all they want is fast money no matter where it comes from to solve their immediate needs.Same as for the fuel for the power plants and national needs for cooking, instead of the HAITIANS deforesting the land for charcoal I think all they have is one that generates close to 280MW methane gas driven .We need 10 like that one to yiel 2800 MW for the nation. If they could borrow close to 2billion dollars for the Metro ,why can't they borrow another billion and have the BRAZILIAN build the dam thing since there is no brains?
The way you describe it sounds so easy in theory ,how about in practice ?How are we going to collect all that gas and bring it over to multiple containers for multiple uses?
Mr. Rancier.
You do know that a few of our electricity generating plants are fueled by natural gas, do you not?
a few are also hybrid, using Coal or Diesel. Right?
Now, sir. let me ask you: how do you think these fuels are collected, (drilled, mined, or syphoned), from the earth? And how do you think these are brought over to generators, gas stations, and propane distributors? It does take some effort, doesn't it?
{"The way you describe it sounds so easy in theory ,how about in practice ?How are we going to collect all that gas and bring it over to multiple containers for multiple uses"}
In answer to your question: The same way I have just described above! ......Actually, it's much easier to produce and collect methane gas, than it is to mine it from the ground!
Google: "Methane digester", then tell me what you think. OK?
In answer to your question: The same way I have just described above! ......Actually, it's much easier to produce and collect methane gas, than it is to mine it from the ground!
actually, it is not. at the natural sources of natural gas, there are millions of cubic meters of the gas, in one location. you can build an installation in one spot, and mine , in situ, for many years. the problem with methane digestors is that they have to be continually supplied witthe the raw materials. that involves sourcing, transport, and waste disposal. it also involves the process, which requires energy. the costs of the plants, from a capital standpoint, are prohibitive, in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiences are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense.
{" the costs of the plants, from a capital standpoint, are prohibitive, in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiences are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense."}
What "plants" are you referring to, Mr. Dread? The "plants" are already there in the form of landfills.
Granted, the gas is diffused and need to be concentrated, but it is there for the taking.
The "capital investments", consists of large plastic tarps to cover and contain escaping gas and a series of PVC pipes sank into said dump at various depths and distances.
The gas is funneled into these interconnected piping and stored into an array of tanks or into the ground.
{" the problem with methane digesters is that they have to be continually supplied with the raw materials."}
The "raw material" you speak of are the tons of garbage we generate every day. Whether we make good use of it or not, it still needs to be carted off to the dump. Would you rather
....it gets piled up high 'till there's no more space? and then go find some other place to do the same?... and on and on with no end? ....Or would you rather make use of said refuse?.... At the very least, the energy needed in collecting thrash, can be supplied by methane-powered trucks, instead of the natura-gas fueled trucks, used today; burning gas, bought from other countries, at a high price.
Before you conclude:
,{" in the event one is thinking on industrial levels. the efficiency are usually very low. from a feasibility standpoint, they make very little sense."}
I suggest you become more familiarized with the science, and do the proper calculations to arrive at an accurate conclusion, as I have.
My point was ,the gas already exist and it is cheaper than petro for the immediate use by the tubines to generate electricity.
Methane as use by the bigest power plant in DR is more effective than the crude oil Diesel or
Coal after the pulverization process ,and it is cleaner. Either one have to be imported and refine in form of gasoline or Diesel fuel.Althought Diesel engines are the norm in DR due to the efficiency of the motors is not the most economical,You also have to remember methane gas is highly volatile and have to be handle very carefull since it is pressurize and the service stations don't find it practical.
In answer to your question if it is so simple and inexpensive to get the methane out of the landfills
why it has not been done?. Belive me i would prfere to get it cheap and easy, if there is a way.