President Leonel Fernandez observes a natural gas tank in vehicle.
Santo Domingo.- The Minister of Industry and Commerce (MIC) announced Monday that in the measure in which vehicles convert to natural gas, the necessary permits will be issued so gasoline stations across the country may also supply the cheaper fuel an option to reduce the dependency on petroleum.
Manuel Garcia said he met with officials of the Treasury Ministry, the National Energy Council and with the Metropolitan Bus Office, as well as with executives of the natural gas importer AES Dominicana, and that they all agree that more facilities are needed to make easier to massively or strategically distribute that fuel.
“In the measure in which those vehicles convert to natural gas, I believe we’re going to issue the adequate permits, as long as they meet the regulation in effect, in Industry and Commerce, as well as Environment, and that there’ll be no impediment so the distributors can have access to sell and distribute natural gas,” Garcia said, interviewed in El Dia, Telesistema.
“Dozens” of stations ready to be built
As to the possible construction of natural gas stations, a DT source revealed that his company is “just waiting for the permits” from the Environment Ministry to build “dozens” of stations in the capital and other cities.
Written by: riosm, 22 Mar 2011 8:21 AM
From: United States
Lure'um hook'um then gradually raise the price of natural gas on'um.
From: Dominican Republic, Puerto Plata
What'll be the cost if conversion??
Written by: curlando, 22 Mar 2011 9:02 AM
From: United States, Bronx
If you can afford gas you should not be driving.
From: United States
Look at that bomb inside the vehicle. Wow if that blows it will make sure eveybody is dead inside the vehicle.
Written by: williom, 22 Mar 2011 9:41 AM
From: United States
The picture itself looks very scary to me. If the container were black, maybe a bit less, I guess...
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Jim & Will,
I echo your feelings on safety. This is why I do not bring my CNG business to DR.....no safety and too many capricious decrees and no constancy of purpose.
This conversion style would never work in a litigious society. This is time bomb and, combined with some shoddy work, there will be leakage, particularly in "hose & clamps" system, and fatalities should be inevitable.
This, in my opinion, constitutes an act of insanity.
MJEV.
From: United States
one mechanic at a local shop in Montechristi, he converted a car from gasoline to natural gas, and the tank can withstand tamperatures of 300 degrees F without exploding, cannot say the samething for gasoline.. this gas is not more flamable than gasoline, there is actually less risk when it comes to explosions using this type of gas over gasoline. The tank can withstand a very strong blow, and it still won't blow up, it gradually release the gas, there will be fire but a controlled fire since pressure is released gradually, the cilinder is able to withstand strong blows and it will still not explode due to pressure...
From: United States
The cap of the cilinder automatically ejects itself with pressure allowing the gas to escape at a rate of no more than a gallon per 45 seconds, this means that even if it catches fire it can be controlled....
From: United States
People,
don't just throw your criticism without knowing the details and facts....
Written by: riosm, 22 Mar 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States
Glomarexplorer
Good pipe tape fittings to avoid leaks, reinforced steel metal cages for extra added protection, placed well under vehicle in front of rear axle away from exhaust pipe for added safety. I would use the same methods for propane.
Maybe it will also serve as a reminder that obeying ALL rules of the road and traffic laws is a must.
But then again the DR is full of non licensed unsafe drivers, unsafe vehicles, heavy traffic, inpatient drivers who speed and sometimes drink with the "out of my way" mentality.
Curlando,
I understand, but......I like most people drive through necessity from point A to point B and back.
I'll stick with the street legal solar charged 4x4 golf ez-kart for local travel only and a 125 cc motorcycle and take my chances......in the DR drivers like pedestrians take their life into their own hands once they leave the front door of their homes.
ALL drive careful at all times.
Written by: riosm, 22 Mar 2011 10:39 AM
From: United States
Hernandez5482,
Thanks for the insight.....
I'll add this to my last post.....maybe the pot holes, weather, unpaved road conditions with pedestrians darting in and out of traffic is another reminder of the GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ? reality.
Written by: riosm, 22 Mar 2011 10:39 AM
From: United States
Hernandez5482,
Thanks for the insight.....
I'll add this to my last post.....maybe the pot holes, weather, unpaved road conditions with pedestrians darting in and out of traffic is another reminder of the GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ? reality.
Written by: williom, 22 Mar 2011 11:16 AM
From: United States
(( People,
don't just throw your criticism without knowing the details and facts.... ))
Well. you gotta admit the picture is scary. I would not rely too much on conversions of cars around me from some local mechanics. If the natural gas cars were built straight from the manufacturer, yes!
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/Some mechanics are probably well-trained and qualified to do it. But, too many careless punks, do-it-yourselfers would think that this would be a fun project to tackle. Next thing you know...
From: United States, Omnipresence
@ hernandez5482- You provide all this technical jargon on facts. Would you absolutely trust the empresas that would sell/install this in your vehicle risking your family? Just to spite, you'd probably say "yes"...but common sense and prudence dictate you'd think otherwise. Although I've always fancied the concept of flight by being blown into the phuckin ionosphere like coyote on a road runner show as I watch the DR coastline below......
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Hernadez,
A couple of points you missed:
1) Stoichiometry for gasoline: ~14.7, meaning that 14.7 parts air & one part fuel required for cumbustion.
2) CNG stoichiometry: ~17.2, meaning that, compared to gasoline, it requires a greater amount of air for cumbustion.
3) All that safety information you alluded to above must follow this requirement.
4) What you listed is not primary concern, slow overnite leakage and any internal spark is. Ever heard of home explosions in NYC or Jersey? That's the same thing that could happen here.
BTW, no reputable converter out there, in civilized world, would place gas tank within vehicle. I know that, because I produce CNG injectors for OEM and retrofitters, and I deal with mostly every major producer, from Europe to India and all points in between, escept Iran.
You could go ahead and convert your vehicle this way. It will work! Heck, it might even facilitate confirmation of the Darwin principle.
MJEV.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Hernadez,
Look up Opel Zafira CNG for good installation. This is what I drive. Alternatively, look up MB Blue Ray. This is how you do CNG, not the way your friend in Monte Cristy does it, at least if you have any concerns about safety.
MJEV.
From: United States, Omnipresence
Hernandez , you got owned dude....come, join me in my flight to the ionosphere as we do a remake of the "The Rocketeer"....
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
I want the government to subsidise the cost of conversion at say 40 or 50% to a certain level
Written by: Escott, 22 Mar 2011 4:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a 2 days a month for payday
I will stick to my diesel SUV thank you very much. Hernandez how about comparing safety to Gas/oiil?
Which part of the Bottled gas business are you in Hernandez? A little honesty can go a LONG LONG WAY!
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
I hope that yellow tank is not the only CNG tank in vehicle, for if it is, then range should be very short and likely <100km. My Opel Zafira, with 1.6L engine, has 4 tanks that size for a range of about 280 km.
MJEV.
Written by: riosm, 23 Mar 2011 10:27 AM
From: United States
Glomarexplorer,
Wow ! Would you say it is worth $ the addition ?
Not to be funny.....good thing the DR is only an island.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@riosm,
You got to balance upfront cost versus projected savings [typically ~50% over gasoline] versus vehicle age and life expectancy.
If in the end results are positive, then perhaps it is worth doing.
Please recognize that you will realize ~10% loss in hp & torque.
As CNG lacks inherent lubricity of liquid fuel, on engines not designed bottom-up specifically for CNG, you might experience reduced intake valve life; however, that's not always the case, and would likely be manufacturer dependent. I'd be careful if I had lesser brand such as Hyundai.
MJEV.
Written by: riosm, 24 Mar 2011 9:28 AM
From: United States
Glomarexplorer,
As always very good useful information.
Rather then importing a car paying shipping & avoiding customs, Lic. fees and hassles. One would be better off buying a car in the DR already equipped with a propane system.
As far as loss in 10% hp [I drive like an old lady anyway] I would not mind the loss as always I drive cautious not "pedal to the metal", one thing I have noticed is that most cars in the DR idle as if they needed a tune-up and run powerless [think of the extra lives saved]
I'm assuming a good used honda [2005-2010 civic, cylinder compression test / check a must] would be a better route for limited longer travel, a 4x4 solar charged or gas / oil mix golf-kart for the very local driving only and a Honda 100 cc dirt bike for personal local use.
Still one would think local car manufacturer's would jump on the ball to address the CNG lubricity issue.
Many thanks I'm many will benefit from your post.
Take acre.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Riosm,
Thank you very much for kind remarks above.
On poor idle quality in converted vehicles, I could shed some light on that. Main problem is that said conversions are done with low-tech conversion systems, employing vaporizers [like carburetor] due to low system pressure. Also, there is no Engine Control Module [ECM] recalibration, since this low-tech mechanics don't have access or wherewithal to recalibrate ECM. Consequently, they often address only highest flow capacity, at expense of low-end flow performance, thereby resulting in poor air/fuel ratio and poor idle.
In fuel injectors, performance is defined by Dynamic Range: highest dynamic flow /over minimum static flow, in grams/sec. You want the highest possible range, preferably above 10. My own injector >15; my competitors barely make 9. Such high range allows very accurate fuel delivery at idle speeds of 600-800 rpm, while permitting full flow at 6000 rpm, resulting in very good performance.
MJEV.
Written by: riosm, 26 Mar 2011 12:35 PM
From: United States
Glomarexplorer,
Thank you so much for the information you provided I'm sure many who also read your post would benefit greatly.
Dreadlocks was right you are an expert on such matters.
Take care Brother.
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@Jim & Will,
I echo your feelings on safety. This is why I do not bring my CNG business to DR.....no safety and too many capricious decrees and no constancy of purpose.
This conversion style would never work in a litigious society. This is time bomb and, combined with some shoddy work, there will be leakage, particularly in "hose & clamps" system, and fatalities should be inevitable.
This, in my opinion, constitutes an act of insanity.
MJEV.
don't just throw your criticism without knowing the details and facts....
Good pipe tape fittings to avoid leaks, reinforced steel metal cages for extra added protection, placed well under vehicle in front of rear axle away from exhaust pipe for added safety. I would use the same methods for propane.
Maybe it will also serve as a reminder that obeying ALL rules of the road and traffic laws is a must.
But then again the DR is full of non licensed unsafe drivers, unsafe vehicles, heavy traffic, inpatient drivers who speed and sometimes drink with the "out of my way" mentality.
Curlando,
I understand, but......I like most people drive through necessity from point A to point B and back.
I'll stick with the street legal solar charged 4x4 golf ez-kart for local travel only and a 125 cc motorcycle and take my chances......in the DR drivers like pedestrians take their life into their own hands once they leave the front door of their homes.
ALL drive careful at all times.
Thanks for the insight.....
I'll add this to my last post.....maybe the pot holes, weather, unpaved road conditions with pedestrians darting in and out of traffic is another reminder of the GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ? reality.
Thanks for the insight.....
I'll add this to my last post.....maybe the pot holes, weather, unpaved road conditions with pedestrians darting in and out of traffic is another reminder of the GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ? reality.
don't just throw your criticism without knowing the details and facts.... ))
Well. you gotta admit the picture is scary. I would not rely too much on conversions of cars around me from some local mechanics. If the natural gas cars were built straight from the manufacturer, yes!
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/
Some mechanics are probably well-trained and qualified to do it. But, too many careless punks, do-it-yourselfers would think that this would be a fun project to tackle. Next thing you know...
@Hernadez,
A couple of points you missed:
1) Stoichiometry for gasoline: ~14.7, meaning that 14.7 parts air & one part fuel required for cumbustion.
2) CNG stoichiometry: ~17.2, meaning that, compared to gasoline, it requires a greater amount of air for cumbustion.
3) All that safety information you alluded to above must follow this requirement.
4) What you listed is not primary concern, slow overnite leakage and any internal spark is. Ever heard of home explosions in NYC or Jersey? That's the same thing that could happen here.
BTW, no reputable converter out there, in civilized world, would place gas tank within vehicle. I know that, because I produce CNG injectors for OEM and retrofitters, and I deal with mostly every major producer, from Europe to India and all points in between, escept Iran.
You could go ahead and convert your vehicle this way. It will work! Heck, it might even facilitate confirmation of the Darwin principle.
MJEV.
@Hernadez,
Look up Opel Zafira CNG for good installation. This is what I drive. Alternatively, look up MB Blue Ray. This is how you do CNG, not the way your friend in Monte Cristy does it, at least if you have any concerns about safety.
MJEV.
Which part of the Bottled gas business are you in Hernandez? A little honesty can go a LONG LONG WAY!
I hope that yellow tank is not the only CNG tank in vehicle, for if it is, then range should be very short and likely <100km. My Opel Zafira, with 1.6L engine, has 4 tanks that size for a range of about 280 km.
MJEV.
Wow ! Would you say it is worth $ the addition ?
Not to be funny.....good thing the DR is only an island.
You got to balance upfront cost versus projected savings [typically ~50% over gasoline] versus vehicle age and life expectancy.
If in the end results are positive, then perhaps it is worth doing.
Please recognize that you will realize ~10% loss in hp & torque.
As CNG lacks inherent lubricity of liquid fuel, on engines not designed bottom-up specifically for CNG, you might experience reduced intake valve life; however, that's not always the case, and would likely be manufacturer dependent. I'd be careful if I had lesser brand such as Hyundai.
MJEV.
As always very good useful information.
Rather then importing a car paying shipping & avoiding customs, Lic. fees and hassles. One would be better off buying a car in the DR already equipped with a propane system.
As far as loss in 10% hp [I drive like an old lady anyway] I would not mind the loss as always I drive cautious not "pedal to the metal", one thing I have noticed is that most cars in the DR idle as if they needed a tune-up and run powerless [think of the extra lives saved]
I'm assuming a good used honda [2005-2010 civic, cylinder compression test / check a must] would be a better route for limited longer travel, a 4x4 solar charged or gas / oil mix golf-kart for the very local driving only and a Honda 100 cc dirt bike for personal local use.
Still one would think local car manufacturer's would jump on the ball to address the CNG lubricity issue.
Many thanks I'm many will benefit from your post.
Take acre.
Thank you very much for kind remarks above.
On poor idle quality in converted vehicles, I could shed some light on that. Main problem is that said conversions are done with low-tech conversion systems, employing vaporizers [like carburetor] due to low system pressure. Also, there is no Engine Control Module [ECM] recalibration, since this low-tech mechanics don't have access or wherewithal to recalibrate ECM. Consequently, they often address only highest flow capacity, at expense of low-end flow performance, thereby resulting in poor air/fuel ratio and poor idle.
In fuel injectors, performance is defined by Dynamic Range: highest dynamic flow /over minimum static flow, in grams/sec. You want the highest possible range, preferably above 10. My own injector >15; my competitors barely make 9. Such high range allows very accurate fuel delivery at idle speeds of 600-800 rpm, while permitting full flow at 6000 rpm, resulting in very good performance.
MJEV.
Thank you so much for the information you provided I'm sure many who also read your post would benefit greatly.
Dreadlocks was right you are an expert on such matters.
Take care Brother.