Santo Domingo.– The
CEO of the State-owned Power Companies (CDEEE), Celso Marranzini, traveled this
week to the United States to discuss a tentative deal between the Dominican
Republic and Michigan-based Global Energy Innovations (GEI) that could bring a fuel
cell plant to the country.
"We’re looking
to get new technology to help us solve the electricity problem we’ve had for
more than 40 years. It has been one of President Fernandez’s biggest
commitments to solve that problem. We want to have electricity 24 hours a day."
Marranzini told The Flint Journal.
Marranzini was accompanied by Dominican Republic Export and Investment Center (CEI-RD) director Eddy Martine, who stated that this could be a historic moment. "I
see this as a transcendental opportunity that can create jobs in Flint,
create jobs in Michigan and create jobs in the Dominican Republic. We hope that this is a platform that can expand to the rest of Latin Americ," he added.
During the visit to Kettering University the Dominican delegation learned of GEI through GEI partner Las-Vegas-based
Dominovas Energy, which promotes commercialization of fuel cell
technology on a global scale.
A final agreement is expected to be approved within three months, the journal reported.
Written by: Escott, 13 Aug 2011 11:08 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a 2 days a month for payday
Fluff, another tax payer paid trip and nothing will come out of this in 3 months or 3 years.
From: United States
Escott saw through this ruse, immediately
In summarising it can be stated that while fuel cell technology is very attractive in terms of research, energy and environmental-policy, it has not yet been exhaustively developed from the technical viewpoint and still a cost intensive option today. In order to assess future, wider potential applications for low-emission fuel cell technologies, further investigations are necessary.
jus another excuse for some guy to go see the world, at taxpayers expense. we cannot get conventional generation down pat, but are signing pacts to invest in unproven technology. talk about ass backwards!
From: Dominican Republic, Santiago
Ordinarily, I would say that Escott is correct...however, in this particular incidence, I will have to disagree. I have followed some of the projects initiated, directed and managed by Minister Martinez. From what I can tell, he is one individual associated with the government that gets things done. He has actively sought foreign investment into the country and any budgets allocated to him from said investments have been accountable and employed successfully. I, admittedly, do not have a great deal of information about the efficacy of fuel cell technology, but if Eddy Martinez is involved in the project my confidence increases exponentially.
From: United States
GringoRandy, while you might have respect for Eddy Martinez and his abilities, just what does that have to do with this issue? what we are looking at is extremely advanced technology which is years from being economically applicable. it is no where near being cost effective, and the Western Europeans are approaching it cautiously, uncertain of the viability. it is just humorous to me that some guys from the caribbean, where many areas are still using kerosine lamps and candles, are insinuating themselves into this issue, promising to apply the things here.
Written by: juanb, 13 Aug 2011 2:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
In Celso Marrazini we have an individual who actually tries to do the best he can all the time, something that cannot be said about any other government official.
Go Celso!!!
P.S. And when we find out that he has done something like the other bums in office, I will be the first to call him out about it. But till then.................................
Written by: telemeco, 13 Aug 2011 3:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
Cross your finger every Dominican that wish this issue to be discuss by our grand kids as something that happened in a long distance past.....se fue la luz!!!!, Que es eso abuelo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZEiQ8-vf1Qi don't care how expense it is, If it hydrogen tech we are talking about, it is liable to invest, country like the US cant afford it, they are broke and are too large of a country, DR is a small country and this is the way to go. having a economy base on hydrogen tech, make lot of sense in the long run. not to mention the possible implication of exporting tech how and technology to other countries. no country is seriously investing in hydrogen,(except Norway) i think we should take the bull by the horn and go for it,
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
Dread are you trying to say the old " stick to wheelbarrows routine "
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
these guys went to Flint Michigan to see this .....it is definitely NOT a wine and dine free lunch on the taxpayers ......Flint is the place where God will stick the hose when he gives Michigan an enema
Written by: danny00, 13 Aug 2011 4:38 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
solve the electricity problem we’ve had for more than 40 years. It has been one of President Fernandez’s biggest commitments to solve that problem. We want to have electricity 24 hours a day
so after 40 years they have found the answer?
please stop the CRAP, please,
Written by: danny00, 13 Aug 2011 4:40 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
millions of dominicans live 1/2 their lives in the dark
their grandchildren will do the same. WHY?
because the government will forever have deep pockets for themselfs, and always treat their own as SLAVES.
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
Danny Boy where are you now ? .....and how long have you been away ?.....building infrastructure has moved ahead in big ways ...albeit at great expense .....the benefits lie ahead ...but the direction is positive
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
There is just no free ride,,,,my company is big into fuel cells and associated with Kettering University....fuel cells use either natural gas or diesel fuel or gasoline to produce energy,but primarily it wants hydrogen, which is ultra expensive. Efficiency is upside=down with fuel cell due to cost of hydrogen, which must either be reformed from fossil fuel or purchased. Either way, it is expensive, and possibly not viable.
MJEV.
From: United States
thanks, Glomar. at least now i will not be accused of being a prophet of doom. at least, not on this issue. when the master speaks, everyone ought to listen.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dr. Dread,
People need to understand that this is high tech but, definitely, it must still follow conservation of energy laws. In reality, it takes about a$1.35 to get out $1.00 out of a fuel cell, at today's prices.
Thanks for kind comments.
MJEV.
From: United States
Glomar states
People need to understand that this is high tech but, definitely, it must still follow conservation of energy laws. In reality, it takes about a$1.35 to get out $1.00 out of a fuel cell, at today's prices.
i am glad you make that point. that is the same thing which applies in a lot of cases. i remember posting that jatropha is really impractical for biodiesel, because the berries ripen very unevenly, and are therefore hard to harvest. olives, for example, generally ripen roughly at the same time on a given tree, so a vigorous shake will cause a significant amount of ripe fruit to fall. not so with jatropha. some are new, some are green, some are partly ripe, etc. none of these technologies comes without horror stories. the press releases do look exciting, though.
Written by: anthonyC, 14 Aug 2011 9:53 AM
From: United States
Written by: danny00,
"millions of dominicans live 1/2 their lives in the dark"
Because they are content in their laziness with the $$$ the government gives them.
They have unreliable electricity but yet they don't pay for it anyway.
They don't have a job but their cousin has one with the government where he barely works if at all and between salary and taking what isn't nailed down does OK.
If they do have a job they spend more time and effort trying to figure out how to scam the system then actually working.
So they vote for the same people then complain when they get the government they deserve.
From: Dominican Republic, Puerto Plata
Glomar, you're absolutely right.
Lavoisier's first law still applies: mass cannot be created or destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles; and that for any chemical process in a closed system, the mass of the reactants must equal the mass of the products.
To produce H2, you need electricity. Using electricity to isolate an element that will be used to produce... electricity appears somewhat byzantine to me.
The only practical advantage I can see for fuel cell massive use would be production of low-cost hydrogen in an area where electricity is cheap, to be later moved to a high-cost electricity area.
Logistics: store the H2 in a dirigible say in Quebec, and fly it down when full, so cheap transport.
Then fire up your cell.
From: United States
anthonyC, damn, you made me all warm and fuzzy. But back to the OP.
The 5KW fuel cell system costs break down like this:
$56,000 for the system
$15,000 for installation
$5,000 Residential Federal Tax credit
$66,000 Net.
The consumption of natural gas is about .43 therms per hour…or about 300 therms per month. Where 1 therm of natural gas is the energy equivalent to 100 Cubic feet (1Ccf). If retail gas cost is at $1.20 per therm, the resulting electricity cost is about 10 cents per kWh.
The fuel cell stack is estimated at $5,000 every 5 years along with the fuel processor catalyst recharge at $1,000 every 5-7 years.
Charlie Wolff
Business Development Manager
7175 NW Evergreen Parkway Suite 100
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Office: 877-257-3343 x1676
Direct: 503-214-1676
Cell: 503-915-1194
Fax: 503-693-1707
http://www.clearedgepower.comWritten by: abc200, 14 Aug 2011 1:41 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Fuel cell technolgy is dead apart from specialised applications such as trucks for closed stores.
DR should not put single dollar in this unless good return guaranteed.
Back in the 70's I did experiments:
Fuels have to be very pure.
Catalyst elements are very expensive.
It is now a con indusry , run by con-artists.
The first electric cars on the market don't go anywhere a fuel cell.
S.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
GM has a viable and significant fleet of fuel cell vehicles here with many thousands of accumulated miles. The technology has been demonstrated, but its cost is high and inaffordable and infrastructure is lacking. Government support has dried up as well, and the internal combustion engine has become so efficient so as to render this nascent technology boutique.
My company is a leader on SOFC, and we have concentrated on the long-distance trucking industry and, more specifically, auxilliary power unit. Our units reform diesel fuel to generate electricity. Its advantage are reduced emissions and ability to run continuously. We will commence commercial production in 2014, at a competitive cost with Genset units, which employ internal combustion engines.
MJEV.
From: United States
Abc, "Back in the 70's " Your comments were how people felt about the PC. I'll think they were wrong.
I'd rethink that statement.
One day they will be ubiquitous and the Arabs will be eating their oil.
Written by: abc200, 14 Aug 2011 3:52 PM
From: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
Another crap US criminal con trick. If it was possible in would have happened by now.
Ultra pure chemicals and expensive catalysts can produce a fuel cell for specialised applications.
But not for general use.
S.
Written by: tomito, 14 Aug 2011 5:51 PM
From: United States
abc200:
I'm not sure about this fuel cell technology, I don't think the DR government should pursue it at the moment unless someone has found a way to make it viable, being that said I'm the type of guy who does not dismiss something entirely until I have all the details.
But I disagree with the notion of " If it was possible it would have happened by now "
To give you a clear example, everybody knows natural gas is cheaper than oil, yet the US has abundant natural gas reserves, plenty to power the US for 100 years. Natural gas is no new technology and it has been proven to be viable but of course the powerful oil industry has been pulling the strings to stagnate its implementation. We all know that the US is too big for it to happen overnight but if the political will was there, coupled with renewable energy and more efficient vehicles, the US could be energy self sufficient within 2 or 3 decades, helping oil prices stabilize in the transition as US demand decreases.
...
Written by: tomito, 14 Aug 2011 6:15 PM
From: United States
As to the DR, I think the focus in the short term should be hydroelectric power and natural gas, couple with some other form of renewable energy on a lower scale (wind and/or solar). A few years ago a study was made and said the DR has about 5,000 megawats of hydroelectricity potential, being the country with by far more rivers in the Caribbean. It's no secret we get plenty of rainfall and sun and to some extent wind.
Right now our Hydropower dams have a capacity of about 500 mw, with a couple more soon to be added (Las Placetas, under construction 87 mw and Palomino 80 mw, and hopefully Montegrande 100 mw , now that congress approved the loan, hopefully it will be operational within 3 years. This coupled with the windpower farms once they become operational and adding over 200 megawatts and the DR will have about 1000 mw of renewable energy, making the DR's electrical grid about 50% dependant on renewable energy, a feat difficult to achieve by much bigger countries...
Written by: tomito, 14 Aug 2011 6:30 PM
From: United States
Cont...
due to different factors. Our average demand at the moment is less than 2000 megawatts even at peak times. We also have over 400 megawatts of natural gas plants owned by AES (Caucedo and Los Minas) and with the finally agreed conversion of Cogentrix in SPM, another 300 mw of natural gas will be available relatively soon. Both renewable and natural gas plants will amount to 1700 mw of less expensive energy, saving the country MILLIONs per year that could be used to pay for the loans and why not of course some will go to politicos pockets (Dominican reality). The DR has averaged about 1 billion dollars in subsidies per year in the last 5 years for the electric sector, ROI is obvious in the short/medium term, with plenty of savings to even cover increasing demand in the mid term.
Hydroelectric dams provide more benefits than just electricity, as they would solve water problems for cities and irrigation at the same time and while helping with flood control...
Written by: tomito, 14 Aug 2011 6:33 PM
From: United States
cont...
and the big reservoirs could be used for water sports/eco-tourism and even for fish farms as it is already done in a minor scale. Again, we have plenty of rain, Caribbean islands are on the path of nearly all tropical depressions, plenty of sun and wind, we need to harness these free resources.
Even if we don't make any progress on making everybody pay their light bills, the subsidy will be much less and more predictable and can be paid with pesos instead of dollars, although Celso has done a better job with eficiency in other areas, when it comes to making everybody pay the bill, he has just taken "baby steps" but in the right direction nonetheless. I know he just started the implementation of "telemeasured meters" so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as I don't expect him to solve the problem in just a couple of years he's been in office. Hopefully the PLD will remain in power and he will be kept there, if Hippo wins, brace for impact.
Now let them come...
From: United States
This is what is going to happen, the Dominican Government it's going to place 50 Million US as a ??? collateral in a US account. The project will never materialize and the money is gone. That happenned begore in 1995 when 20 US MILLION disapear !!!!
Keep track, last term.
From: United States
ABC, add to that the fact that the catalysts and filaments operate at such high temperatures, their durability becomes really questionable. a report i read states that you can only recoup your investment if you can get 4 years out of the equipment, and that is currently not the case.
From: United States, Orange County, California
The problem is not the production of electricity but, collecting the payments. People do not make enough money for paying utility bills. Create better jobs so, the people can pay for their electricity and garbage collection.
From: United States, words of wisdom from the nutcracker
well I hope they do invest on this new technology , anything is better than what we have now ,our government has failed us in every way possible , maybey this full cell deal can work
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Hell,
More likely, we would go deeper in the hole.
MJEV.
From: United States
This is why there is very little public transportation in LA. He probably is being monitored. If we can produce our own electricilty what will happen to the utilities, the arabs, Exxon, etc..
From: United States
I have stopped writing often because you people are so naive; this country will never make any monumnetal leaps forward in technology, agriculture, or education because most of the intended funds head to those corrupt in power, This is a developing, and I use that term loosely, nation. Sening criminals like Edie Martinez (sorry Gringo randy, he is a crook as is his boss) does not promote anything, escept how much money those in power take take off the top, middle, and bottom. The country is headed no where, every branch of the government has been permeated with corruption.
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In summarising it can be stated that while fuel cell technology is very attractive in terms of research, energy and environmental-policy, it has not yet been exhaustively developed from the technical viewpoint and still a cost intensive option today. In order to assess future, wider potential applications for low-emission fuel cell technologies, further investigations are necessary.
jus another excuse for some guy to go see the world, at taxpayers expense. we cannot get conventional generation down pat, but are signing pacts to invest in unproven technology. talk about ass backwards!
Go Celso!!!
P.S. And when we find out that he has done something like the other bums in office, I will be the first to call him out about it. But till then.................................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZEiQ8-vf1Q
i don't care how expense it is, If it hydrogen tech we are talking about, it is liable to invest, country like the US cant afford it, they are broke and are too large of a country, DR is a small country and this is the way to go. having a economy base on hydrogen tech, make lot of sense in the long run. not to mention the possible implication of exporting tech how and technology to other countries. no country is seriously investing in hydrogen,(except Norway) i think we should take the bull by the horn and go for it,
so after 40 years they have found the answer?
please stop the CRAP, please,
their grandchildren will do the same. WHY?
because the government will forever have deep pockets for themselfs, and always treat their own as SLAVES.
There is just no free ride,,,,my company is big into fuel cells and associated with Kettering University....fuel cells use either natural gas or diesel fuel or gasoline to produce energy,but primarily it wants hydrogen, which is ultra expensive. Efficiency is upside=down with fuel cell due to cost of hydrogen, which must either be reformed from fossil fuel or purchased. Either way, it is expensive, and possibly not viable.
MJEV.
People need to understand that this is high tech but, definitely, it must still follow conservation of energy laws. In reality, it takes about a$1.35 to get out $1.00 out of a fuel cell, at today's prices.
Thanks for kind comments.
MJEV.
People need to understand that this is high tech but, definitely, it must still follow conservation of energy laws. In reality, it takes about a$1.35 to get out $1.00 out of a fuel cell, at today's prices.
i am glad you make that point. that is the same thing which applies in a lot of cases. i remember posting that jatropha is really impractical for biodiesel, because the berries ripen very unevenly, and are therefore hard to harvest. olives, for example, generally ripen roughly at the same time on a given tree, so a vigorous shake will cause a significant amount of ripe fruit to fall. not so with jatropha. some are new, some are green, some are partly ripe, etc. none of these technologies comes without horror stories. the press releases do look exciting, though.
"millions of dominicans live 1/2 their lives in the dark"
Because they are content in their laziness with the $$$ the government gives them.
They have unreliable electricity but yet they don't pay for it anyway.
They don't have a job but their cousin has one with the government where he barely works if at all and between salary and taking what isn't nailed down does OK.
If they do have a job they spend more time and effort trying to figure out how to scam the system then actually working.
So they vote for the same people then complain when they get the government they deserve.
Lavoisier's first law still applies: mass cannot be created or destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles; and that for any chemical process in a closed system, the mass of the reactants must equal the mass of the products.
To produce H2, you need electricity. Using electricity to isolate an element that will be used to produce... electricity appears somewhat byzantine to me.
The only practical advantage I can see for fuel cell massive use would be production of low-cost hydrogen in an area where electricity is cheap, to be later moved to a high-cost electricity area.
Logistics: store the H2 in a dirigible say in Quebec, and fly it down when full, so cheap transport.
Then fire up your cell.
anthonyC, damn, you made me all warm and fuzzy. But back to the OP.
The 5KW fuel cell system costs break down like this:
$56,000 for the system
$15,000 for installation
$5,000 Residential Federal Tax credit
$66,000 Net.
The consumption of natural gas is about .43 therms per hour…or about 300 therms per month. Where 1 therm of natural gas is the energy equivalent to 100 Cubic feet (1Ccf). If retail gas cost is at $1.20 per therm, the resulting electricity cost is about 10 cents per kWh.
The fuel cell stack is estimated at $5,000 every 5 years along with the fuel processor catalyst recharge at $1,000 every 5-7 years.
Charlie Wolff
Business Development Manager
7175 NW Evergreen Parkway Suite 100
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Office: 877-257-3343 x1676
Direct: 503-214-1676
Cell: 503-915-1194
Fax: 503-693-1707
http://www.clearedgepower.com
DR should not put single dollar in this unless good return guaranteed.
Back in the 70's I did experiments:
Fuels have to be very pure.
Catalyst elements are very expensive.
It is now a con indusry , run by con-artists.
The first electric cars on the market don't go anywhere a fuel cell.
S.
GM has a viable and significant fleet of fuel cell vehicles here with many thousands of accumulated miles. The technology has been demonstrated, but its cost is high and inaffordable and infrastructure is lacking. Government support has dried up as well, and the internal combustion engine has become so efficient so as to render this nascent technology boutique.
My company is a leader on SOFC, and we have concentrated on the long-distance trucking industry and, more specifically, auxilliary power unit. Our units reform diesel fuel to generate electricity. Its advantage are reduced emissions and ability to run continuously. We will commence commercial production in 2014, at a competitive cost with Genset units, which employ internal combustion engines.
MJEV.
I'd rethink that statement.
One day they will be ubiquitous and the Arabs will be eating their oil.
Check the link below.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/60minutes/main6221135.shtml
Ultra pure chemicals and expensive catalysts can produce a fuel cell for specialised applications.
But not for general use.
S.
I'm not sure about this fuel cell technology, I don't think the DR government should pursue it at the moment unless someone has found a way to make it viable, being that said I'm the type of guy who does not dismiss something entirely until I have all the details.
But I disagree with the notion of " If it was possible it would have happened by now "
To give you a clear example, everybody knows natural gas is cheaper than oil, yet the US has abundant natural gas reserves, plenty to power the US for 100 years. Natural gas is no new technology and it has been proven to be viable but of course the powerful oil industry has been pulling the strings to stagnate its implementation. We all know that the US is too big for it to happen overnight but if the political will was there, coupled with renewable energy and more efficient vehicles, the US could be energy self sufficient within 2 or 3 decades, helping oil prices stabilize in the transition as US demand decreases.
...
Right now our Hydropower dams have a capacity of about 500 mw, with a couple more soon to be added (Las Placetas, under construction 87 mw and Palomino 80 mw, and hopefully Montegrande 100 mw , now that congress approved the loan, hopefully it will be operational within 3 years. This coupled with the windpower farms once they become operational and adding over 200 megawatts and the DR will have about 1000 mw of renewable energy, making the DR's electrical grid about 50% dependant on renewable energy, a feat difficult to achieve by much bigger countries...
due to different factors. Our average demand at the moment is less than 2000 megawatts even at peak times. We also have over 400 megawatts of natural gas plants owned by AES (Caucedo and Los Minas) and with the finally agreed conversion of Cogentrix in SPM, another 300 mw of natural gas will be available relatively soon. Both renewable and natural gas plants will amount to 1700 mw of less expensive energy, saving the country MILLIONs per year that could be used to pay for the loans and why not of course some will go to politicos pockets (Dominican reality). The DR has averaged about 1 billion dollars in subsidies per year in the last 5 years for the electric sector, ROI is obvious in the short/medium term, with plenty of savings to even cover increasing demand in the mid term.
Hydroelectric dams provide more benefits than just electricity, as they would solve water problems for cities and irrigation at the same time and while helping with flood control...
and the big reservoirs could be used for water sports/eco-tourism and even for fish farms as it is already done in a minor scale. Again, we have plenty of rain, Caribbean islands are on the path of nearly all tropical depressions, plenty of sun and wind, we need to harness these free resources.
Even if we don't make any progress on making everybody pay their light bills, the subsidy will be much less and more predictable and can be paid with pesos instead of dollars, although Celso has done a better job with eficiency in other areas, when it comes to making everybody pay the bill, he has just taken "baby steps" but in the right direction nonetheless. I know he just started the implementation of "telemeasured meters" so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, as I don't expect him to solve the problem in just a couple of years he's been in office. Hopefully the PLD will remain in power and he will be kept there, if Hippo wins, brace for impact.
Now let them come...
Keep track, last term.
@Hell,
More likely, we would go deeper in the hole.
MJEV.
http://energy.aol.com/2011/08/13/....ly-off-the-grid/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|87592