Santo Domingo. - While the Haitian diaspora relation with the country’s presidential candidates is still a sort of “unrequited love,” the number of Dominicans of Haitian ancestry with the right to vote is increasingly significant and accepted.
“In some polling places the percentage of Dominicans of Haitian ancestry was as high as 50%,” said diaspora leader Edwin Paraisonm quoted by eldia.com.do.
H cited stumbling blocks to renew voter IDs in the electoral registry process long before voting date, and noted that there were no formal contacts between the candidates and that community’s leaders.
Despite the lack of reliable statistics Paraison estimates the participation of as high as 5% of the votes cast.
Meanwhile the sociologist Wilfredo Lozano said the right to vote for Dominicans of Haitian ancestry spread through several generations is good for democracy and politics, but doubts that it was made easer for them now than before. “For years the country’s ultranationalist sectors have resisted in recognizing the right these Dominicans have, whose only sin is being the offspring of Haitians.”
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Here WE GO AGAIN WITH THESE people.
From: United States
That's a reality..
even if we would like to accept it or not..
The fact is that they have been here for generations and now more than ever..
I am not a pro or against haitians..
It's not our choice, it's a fact and they aint going no where..
And believe me, there is nothing that we can do about it..
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 11:51 AM
From: United States, NYC
Victor,
I too see very little that DR can do about the fact that SEVERAL GENERATION OLD populations of Hatians have lived in DR. And now with Globalized Markets and powerful bankers taking an open market bias, any DR attempt to go against these trends will have a very poor audience within these centers of power.
WE Dominicans have to come around to realize that we either Dominicanize these folks fast or we risk an enormous battle ahead for the identity of our nation-state. The international community really doesn't care much for nationalism in small dependent countries. And if they can wash the problems of Haiti unto the Dominican landmass so much the better. Our leaders AND HERE ALL HAVE CONTRIBUTED their two-cents to the Haitian-Dominican Fiasco : INCLUDING ironically TRUJILLO AND BALAGUER!!!
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 11:53 AM
From: United States, NYC
So we need a CLEAR and TRANSPARENT National DEBATE to come to terms with this important issue. I agree that it's not going to go away; and simply thinking it might will just further put distance to some pragmatic solution to the problem.
DANILO has already stated his preference for signing a FREE TRADE DEAL with Haiti. One fundamental condition of international support for the modernization and development of the DR. I hope he takes the time to address the VALID concerns of Dominicans and Haitians alike over what exactly is on the table regarding these massive flows. Even in areas like Europe with vast resources at hand and the USA and Canada people demand their governments operate better in translating democratic demands with pragmatic solutions. Perhaps as a condition to signing the Free Trade Treaty, The Medina Administration should ask for and demand if necessary some clear and concrete conditions in terms of citizenship requirements. To allow things as they are will
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 12:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
only increase the tensions and given time produce a powerful backlash, especially if we get a serious recession in the DR.
From: Germany, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz
It is not a problem of Haitian descendants, the issue is their legal status and/or if they qualify for Dominican citizenship, if they comply with what the Law states there is not problems at all.
I know many Haitians with Dominican citizenship rights and theirs kids are Dominican (!)
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 1:18 PM
From: United States, NYC
But the issue has to do with the flows in terms of the Stated Medina preference for a Free Trade Pact with Haiti during his term in office. What will happen with such a deal? Will labor have freedom of movement? How will labor be tracked? What happens to wages in DR if even greater flows from the west come into DR?
We have many native poor and the west has even greater needs, so how will we manage a free trade pact with Haiti? Dominicans already complain about poor wages and poor job prospects, what happens if more low wage pressure comes into play?
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Spinach speaking from the confort of Canada, if you were dying in Haiti, you too would've been cutting sugar cane. I would've. These Haitians have more heart than you.
PRIDE DOES NOT FILL THE STOMACH.
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 1:23 PM
From: United States, NYC
"I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please."
Yes, Spinach. Go to Timbuktu. And you know who YOUR REAL ENEMY ARE: YOUR OWN COWARD ELITES.
Haiti is in its debacle NOT BECAUSE OF THE DOMINICAN PEOPLE. Haiti's problems are located inside HAITI ITSELF!!
Haiti's elite have helped create the internal warped environment that has forced untold millions of Haitians to flee their land in desperation.
From: Dominican Republic, I dislike all politicians and their afiliated parties... "I simply say it AS IT IS!!"
Just like any other nation that is managed by this ppl is either destroyed or ravaged.
Written by: Atabey, 23 May 2012 2:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
Spinach,
Guess what? If Haiti were in DR's shoes her people, especially the poorer members of society would also be against huge flows of desperate people from DR streaming into Haiti to find work and prosperity.
The Elephant in the room has to be addressed during Medina's term in office, especially if he's to negotiate a Free Trade Deal with Martelly and Haiti.
A year or two ago, a famous French economist wrote that DR could not manage to increase significantly her middle class and increase the well being of her native poorer classes with the overflow population increase from neighboring Haiti. This is not some xenophobic position. A true National Dominican Conversation over this question has to be commenced and soon.
Written by: airgordo, 23 May 2012 2:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: SPiNACH, 23 May 2012 1:15 PM
From: Canada
I wish that the remnant of my people would just leave that country , I don't see why they would wanna have citizenship in such country, what a shame ?
To become a Dominican citizen ?
What a joke ?
I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please.
---
Yeah Right, i would like to see a post from you EXPLAINING WHY the Dominican Republic has the BIGGEST AMOUNT OF HAITIANS outside haiti itself on the World, by the way, most of the ILLEGALS that do not exist ANYWHERE, completely PAPERLESS...
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Spinach,
I don’t know what the GDP per capita or HDI for Timbuktu is, maybe you could help with that.
But for a poor Haitian living in Haiti migrating to DR is the same deal as someone in the DR taking a boat to Puerto Rico or getting illegal to the US. Now why a poor Haitian would not be proud of switching his/her nationality for a far better country like maybe you and other million immigrants in the US and Canada have decided to do and wish to do.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Post 1 of 3
Spinach said: "citizenship in such country, what a shame ?
To become a Dominican citizen ?
What a joke ?"
Spinach,
Let’s look at this issue from a very pragmatic perspective.
So, millions migrate to the US and Canada (in your case). The main purpose pushing these immigrants to the US/Canada is income $$ as a vehicle to improve their living standards. Eventually the majority of these immigrants become citizens of these two countries, their love for their new country is such that they decide to even sacrifice their and their kids’ lives to defend the freedom and the lifestyle that this new home has provided them.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
In the case of these poor Haitians is not different to what you did they migrated to a more developed country that is providing them the income $$ needed to improve their lives.
Take a look at these facts:
• The GDP (nominal) per capita for a Haitian in Haiti is $738.00
• HDI for Haiti is 0.404 (145th in the world)
• The GDP (nominal) per capital for a Dominican in the DR is $5,638.00
• HDI for the Dominican Rep. is 0.663 (88th in the world)
• The GDP (nominal) per capita for an American in the US is $48,386.00
• HDI for the United States is 0.910 (4th in the world)
Let’s run some numbers to make a simple comparison:
• GDP (nominal) DR vs. Haiti: 7.6X (7.6 fold or 7.6 times greater or as much as of Haiti)
• GDP (nominal) US vs. DR: 8.6X
• HDI difference between DR and Haiti: 0.259
• HDI difference between US and DR: 0.247
Written by: RoyStone, 23 May 2012 4:27 PM
From: Australia
The fact this is even being debated is testimony to Dominican racism. If you are born in a country, or migrate there legally, then citizenship should be your right. If you break the law or refuse to work you should be dealt with accordingly, regardless of your color, ethnicity or where you were born.
From: United States
@RoyStone:
Get a life.
From: United States
@SPINACH.You said:
"I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please."
After the earthquake,Senegal offered to take in all Haitians.
How many Haitians left Haiti for Senegal?
Wait...I'll answer for you ....ZEROOOOOO..!!!
How many came to DR?...EXACTLY!!
You're so full of DUNG!
From: United States
Had the Dominican Republic made the same offer,how many Haitians would have taken up on that offer?
WAIT..!!..I'll answer that one for you: ALL OF HAITI WOULD HAVE BEEN EMPTY,OK?
Not a single Haitian would've stayed in Haiti,PERIOD!
From: United States, Brooklyn
To the Haitian with the poster sign... Tu eres de HAITI.... ESTUPIDA
From: Dominican Republic
RoyStone,
You said ...."If you are born in a country, or migrate there legally, then citizenship should be your right." Let's think about this for a second. Your statement ignores that in several countries "Jus Soli" is not the norm. Moreover, among the countries that practice "Jus Soli", some of them do not grant citizenship without conditions.
From wikipedia:
"The law was changed on 20 August 1986 so that a person born in Australia acquires Australian citizenship by birth only if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident or upon the 10th birthday of the child born in Australia regardless of their parent's citizenship status (see Australian nationality law)."
So if this is correct, in theory, a child of illegal aliens in Australia could be considered stateless until his/her 10th birthday. Am I correct?
From: United States
"HERALD Sun readers have overwhelmingly endorsed the claim by one of Australia's most respected neurosurgeons that racism still plagues the nation"
Dr Charles Teo, the son of Chinese immigrants, who prolonged the life of Jane McGrath and has saved the lives of hundreds of Australians, said it was wrong to deny there was racism in Australia.
At a launch of Australia Day Council celebrations yesterday, Dr Teo said that racism was still "very much alive in Australia".
"I don't quite like it when I hear politicians reassuring the Indians that there's no racism in Australia. That's bull-----," he said.
A Herald Sun poll on the issue has drawn an emphatic response from readers, with more that 83 per cent of 8257 respondents thus far agreeing that racism is still prevalent.
Written by: RoyStone, 24 May 2012 6:28 AM
From: Australia
Trinitario809,
One man's opinion, and a reader's poll is no more indicative than a Dominican Today poll. Also what Australians consider racist, Dominicans would consider normal. Put simply, you are racist, and I am not.
fortunately for your county, you do not have any say in who gets Dominican citizenship and who doesn't.
From: United States
@RoyStone:
You are racists,period.
From: United States
Now please read Archangel's comment then answer that,you racist!
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
I’m against illegal immigration, be that in the DR, US or anywhere. We have to follow the law otherwise chaos and unrest unfolds.
From: United States
@ hernandez 0r Josie Ane
Who cares what you think?
Yoiu only mind in giving a heard time to the rest of the forum.. and speak nonsense..
From: United States, I dont even live inside a house , I haunt one!
Written by: Trinitario809, 23 May 2012 5:57 PM
From: United States
@SPINACH.You said:
"I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please."
After the earthquake,Senegal offered to take in all Haitians.
How many Haitians left Haiti for Senegal?
Wait...I'll answer for you ....ZEROOOOOO..!!!
How many came to DR?...EXACTLY!!
You're so full of DUNG!
Thats because dominican girls got the best booty , and could turn people out in beds , I dont think senegal girls could do that lol.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
It doesn't help that our border is protected by corrupt and ill-trained soldiers. It will be in the best interest of all to create an entire new entity solely dedicated to guard the border.
From: Dominican Republic
RoyStone & Trinitario809,
Like most of the articles in DT, this one is very missleading. The term "Dominicans of Haitian ancestry" seems to be applied equally to the sons and daugthers of legal and illegal Haitians immigrants born in Dominican Rep. This distinction might not exits in a purely "Jus Soli" country, but in Dominican Rep., citizenship is only granted if someone is born of Dominican parents, or to those born of foreigners while residing legally in Dominican Rep. This issue is not new and has been argued to death in DT's forums. With that said, the vagueness of the article coupled by the picture, conveys the idea that the people in the picture were Dominican citizens that were denied the right to vote because of their Haitian ancestry. But were they really citizens? Any cedulas? Which were the stumbling blocks? Anything?? Then a again, the article basically saids that more Dominicans of Haitian decend voted. So how this "racist" talk came about? (from the picture)
Written by: RoyStone, 25 May 2012 5:04 AM
From: Australia
Arcangel96,
I do not know the details of Australian immigration law, but what is your point? Presumably any child of a illegal immigrants, born in the same country as his/her parents, would have the same nationality as his/her parents. This can be problematic since many illegal immigrants destroy their identity papers before landing. Regardless if caught, illegal immigrants are generally detained while their applications are processed. Some will be allowed to remain while others will be deported. There can be long and expensive appeals, all paid for by Australian taxpayers, as is their accommodation, clothing, medical care, counseling, translation, religious and other legal services. Illegals under 18 are considered children and have special treatment. Many well over 18 lie about their age to obtain these privileges.
Written by: RoyStone, 25 May 2012 5:12 AM
From: Australia
The Australian Immigration Department has finite resources, and the detention and processing of illegal immigrants consumes a significant proportion, at the expense of legal immigration applicants, who have to wait months, and sometimes years, to obtain approval, as there are also quotas on the number of immigrants.
Some Australians (like me), believe only migrants who apply legally should be considered. Many migrants do so illegally because they know that for whatever reason, their application would not be successful.
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That's a reality..
even if we would like to accept it or not..
The fact is that they have been here for generations and now more than ever..
I am not a pro or against haitians..
It's not our choice, it's a fact and they aint going no where..
And believe me, there is nothing that we can do about it..
I too see very little that DR can do about the fact that SEVERAL GENERATION OLD populations of Hatians have lived in DR. And now with Globalized Markets and powerful bankers taking an open market bias, any DR attempt to go against these trends will have a very poor audience within these centers of power.
WE Dominicans have to come around to realize that we either Dominicanize these folks fast or we risk an enormous battle ahead for the identity of our nation-state. The international community really doesn't care much for nationalism in small dependent countries. And if they can wash the problems of Haiti unto the Dominican landmass so much the better. Our leaders AND HERE ALL HAVE CONTRIBUTED their two-cents to the Haitian-Dominican Fiasco : INCLUDING ironically TRUJILLO AND BALAGUER!!!
DANILO has already stated his preference for signing a FREE TRADE DEAL with Haiti. One fundamental condition of international support for the modernization and development of the DR. I hope he takes the time to address the VALID concerns of Dominicans and Haitians alike over what exactly is on the table regarding these massive flows. Even in areas like Europe with vast resources at hand and the USA and Canada people demand their governments operate better in translating democratic demands with pragmatic solutions. Perhaps as a condition to signing the Free Trade Treaty, The Medina Administration should ask for and demand if necessary some clear and concrete conditions in terms of citizenship requirements. To allow things as they are will
only increase the tensions and given time produce a powerful backlash, especially if we get a serious recession in the DR.
I know many Haitians with Dominican citizenship rights and theirs kids are Dominican (!)
But the issue has to do with the flows in terms of the Stated Medina preference for a Free Trade Pact with Haiti during his term in office. What will happen with such a deal? Will labor have freedom of movement? How will labor be tracked? What happens to wages in DR if even greater flows from the west come into DR?
We have many native poor and the west has even greater needs, so how will we manage a free trade pact with Haiti? Dominicans already complain about poor wages and poor job prospects, what happens if more low wage pressure comes into play?
PRIDE DOES NOT FILL THE STOMACH.
Yes, Spinach. Go to Timbuktu. And you know who YOUR REAL ENEMY ARE: YOUR OWN COWARD ELITES.
Haiti is in its debacle NOT BECAUSE OF THE DOMINICAN PEOPLE. Haiti's problems are located inside HAITI ITSELF!!
Haiti's elite have helped create the internal warped environment that has forced untold millions of Haitians to flee their land in desperation.
Guess what? If Haiti were in DR's shoes her people, especially the poorer members of society would also be against huge flows of desperate people from DR streaming into Haiti to find work and prosperity.
The Elephant in the room has to be addressed during Medina's term in office, especially if he's to negotiate a Free Trade Deal with Martelly and Haiti.
A year or two ago, a famous French economist wrote that DR could not manage to increase significantly her middle class and increase the well being of her native poorer classes with the overflow population increase from neighboring Haiti. This is not some xenophobic position. A true National Dominican Conversation over this question has to be commenced and soon.
From: Canada
I wish that the remnant of my people would just leave that country , I don't see why they would wanna have citizenship in such country, what a shame ?
To become a Dominican citizen ?
What a joke ?
I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please.
---
Yeah Right, i would like to see a post from you EXPLAINING WHY the Dominican Republic has the BIGGEST AMOUNT OF HAITIANS outside haiti itself on the World, by the way, most of the ILLEGALS that do not exist ANYWHERE, completely PAPERLESS...
I don’t know what the GDP per capita or HDI for Timbuktu is, maybe you could help with that.
But for a poor Haitian living in Haiti migrating to DR is the same deal as someone in the DR taking a boat to Puerto Rico or getting illegal to the US. Now why a poor Haitian would not be proud of switching his/her nationality for a far better country like maybe you and other million immigrants in the US and Canada have decided to do and wish to do.
Spinach said: "citizenship in such country, what a shame ?
To become a Dominican citizen ?
What a joke ?"
Spinach,
Let’s look at this issue from a very pragmatic perspective.
So, millions migrate to the US and Canada (in your case). The main purpose pushing these immigrants to the US/Canada is income $$ as a vehicle to improve their living standards. Eventually the majority of these immigrants become citizens of these two countries, their love for their new country is such that they decide to even sacrifice their and their kids’ lives to defend the freedom and the lifestyle that this new home has provided them.
Take a look at these facts:
• The GDP (nominal) per capita for a Haitian in Haiti is $738.00
• HDI for Haiti is 0.404 (145th in the world)
• The GDP (nominal) per capital for a Dominican in the DR is $5,638.00
• HDI for the Dominican Rep. is 0.663 (88th in the world)
• The GDP (nominal) per capita for an American in the US is $48,386.00
• HDI for the United States is 0.910 (4th in the world)
Let’s run some numbers to make a simple comparison:
• GDP (nominal) DR vs. Haiti: 7.6X (7.6 fold or 7.6 times greater or as much as of Haiti)
• GDP (nominal) US vs. DR: 8.6X
• HDI difference between DR and Haiti: 0.259
• HDI difference between US and DR: 0.247
Get a life.
"I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please."
After the earthquake,Senegal offered to take in all Haitians.
How many Haitians left Haiti for Senegal?
Wait...I'll answer for you ....ZEROOOOOO..!!!
How many came to DR?...EXACTLY!!
You're so full of DUNG!
WAIT..!!..I'll answer that one for you: ALL OF HAITI WOULD HAVE BEEN EMPTY,OK?
Not a single Haitian would've stayed in Haiti,PERIOD!
To the Haitian with the poster sign... Tu eres de HAITI.... ESTUPIDA
You said ...."If you are born in a country, or migrate there legally, then citizenship should be your right." Let's think about this for a second. Your statement ignores that in several countries "Jus Soli" is not the norm. Moreover, among the countries that practice "Jus Soli", some of them do not grant citizenship without conditions.
From wikipedia:
"The law was changed on 20 August 1986 so that a person born in Australia acquires Australian citizenship by birth only if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident or upon the 10th birthday of the child born in Australia regardless of their parent's citizenship status (see Australian nationality law)."
So if this is correct, in theory, a child of illegal aliens in Australia could be considered stateless until his/her 10th birthday. Am I correct?
Dr Charles Teo, the son of Chinese immigrants, who prolonged the life of Jane McGrath and has saved the lives of hundreds of Australians, said it was wrong to deny there was racism in Australia.
At a launch of Australia Day Council celebrations yesterday, Dr Teo said that racism was still "very much alive in Australia".
"I don't quite like it when I hear politicians reassuring the Indians that there's no racism in Australia. That's bull-----," he said.
A Herald Sun poll on the issue has drawn an emphatic response from readers, with more that 83 per cent of 8257 respondents thus far agreeing that racism is still prevalent.
One man's opinion, and a reader's poll is no more indicative than a Dominican Today poll. Also what Australians consider racist, Dominicans would consider normal. Put simply, you are racist, and I am not.
fortunately for your county, you do not have any say in who gets Dominican citizenship and who doesn't.
You are racists,period.
@ hernandez 0r Josie Ane
Who cares what you think?
Yoiu only mind in giving a heard time to the rest of the forum.. and speak nonsense..
From: United States
@SPINACH.You said:
"I d rather want to be a citizen in Timbuktu , but for any Haitian to take or want to be apart or to be friends with any Dominican is heartbreaking to me , these people are our enemies , we shouldn't have anything thing to do with them even if it means starvation , leave their f........ Country and come home please."
After the earthquake,Senegal offered to take in all Haitians.
How many Haitians left Haiti for Senegal?
Wait...I'll answer for you ....ZEROOOOOO..!!!
How many came to DR?...EXACTLY!!
You're so full of DUNG!
Thats because dominican girls got the best booty , and could turn people out in beds , I dont think senegal girls could do that lol.
Like most of the articles in DT, this one is very missleading. The term "Dominicans of Haitian ancestry" seems to be applied equally to the sons and daugthers of legal and illegal Haitians immigrants born in Dominican Rep. This distinction might not exits in a purely "Jus Soli" country, but in Dominican Rep., citizenship is only granted if someone is born of Dominican parents, or to those born of foreigners while residing legally in Dominican Rep. This issue is not new and has been argued to death in DT's forums. With that said, the vagueness of the article coupled by the picture, conveys the idea that the people in the picture were Dominican citizens that were denied the right to vote because of their Haitian ancestry. But were they really citizens? Any cedulas? Which were the stumbling blocks? Anything?? Then a again, the article basically saids that more Dominicans of Haitian decend voted. So how this "racist" talk came about? (from the picture)
I do not know the details of Australian immigration law, but what is your point? Presumably any child of a illegal immigrants, born in the same country as his/her parents, would have the same nationality as his/her parents. This can be problematic since many illegal immigrants destroy their identity papers before landing. Regardless if caught, illegal immigrants are generally detained while their applications are processed. Some will be allowed to remain while others will be deported. There can be long and expensive appeals, all paid for by Australian taxpayers, as is their accommodation, clothing, medical care, counseling, translation, religious and other legal services. Illegals under 18 are considered children and have special treatment. Many well over 18 lie about their age to obtain these privileges.
Some Australians (like me), believe only migrants who apply legally should be considered. Many migrants do so illegally because they know that for whatever reason, their application would not be successful.