Where are you bigot's at now? dime? nothing to say!

This is horse shit. They just don't want to pay nationals the requiered rate since haitians would do it for much less. National employers are the cause of this illigal and out-of-control immigrations we have today.

I hate to say "I told you so" but...

I Told You So!!!

BS... With 15% unemployment!!

Give it time and dominicans will do the work. and pay more bastards!

This dude looks like our beloved Haitian descent Boca 'e burro, all smile and doing what he does best: SACANCO YUCAS!!!!

Written by: chilliwestaziz,
From: Jamaica


I hate to say "I told you so" but...

I Told You So!!!"


Nothing New here.

Let's await Lautaro's comments on the subject tonight, perhaps. He's an economist in the DR. Wants to tax these workers.
-------

There's NO DOUBT that Dominican farms are MORE PROFITABLE using the cheapest labor input in the whole region/ Western-Hemisphere? in the form of Haitian migrant workers. No doubt.

The question is whether by doing so, the DR has basically priced out its own low wage Dominican labor force.

The lowest wage laborers in DR are the ones facing the harshest most competitive pressures against their living standards, already low to begin with, what hope have they to earn more in future or even to retain their own levels from falling down to the lowest of wages on offer?


It's a difficult situation that again would find some alleviation were enough higher paying jobs on offer to suck-up the domestic low wage force.

Yes, he is smiling because he is winning. He is getting fat, he is getting paid, he is probably got a little Dominican mama to keep him satisfied. He has every reason to smile.

Most of all, he is smiling because he has job security.

It's not about being a bigot , you chocolate briquette!!! It's about registering and paying taxes as a laborer and not extending your allotted time in a foreign country. The haitian government is at fault here, it must be really bad in haiti if its people would rather endure living condition equal to a pig pen in another country.

Also, the government in DR should dedicate more time to the Dominican society

This is a question for all of you; if any of you have the balls to answer it - truthfully!

If you had a plantation farm (lemon/lime plantation) in the DR right now, right now... Would you hire Dominican workers or Haitian workers? Please explain truthfully why or why not?

I am guessing that many of these farmers share your political views but when it comes down to it and you refine your conscience and distill your morals you will probably end up doing exactly what many Dominican farmers are doing. Hire Haitian Workers.

Duh!

Atabey,

Most of these workers are off the radar. Off again..On again.. Depending on the harvest season, etc., etc. To effectively tax these people, the employers have to play along. My opinion is that there are too many links in this chain and every link will be against it. I just do not see it happening but if it does, it will be an uphill fight. Get ready for fireworks.

The lobbying groups that are on the side of illegal haitian workers, are the same slave drivers that pay them measly salaries.
The ones that are stirring up "haitian worker rights" and the incidences at the border, are the ones that underpay these workers, and exploit them. Sound business for them.
These modern day slavers, not only underpay the illegals, that is why they prefer them, but treat them inhumanely, fire them at will, and many times call immigration and snitch at them, so they will not have to pay them, the little salaries that are due.
Do not fall for the obvious support, for the "poor and exploited" haitian workers, it is all a scam.
These oligarchs for years have resisted mechanizing efforts, since they have the readily available and "disposable" illegal workers, that they can exploit, underpay, provide no benefits for, and fire at will.

We have been saying this for a while; it is an economic issue control by a few. Modernization is not an option when they can easily hire these cheap, liability free hands and do the work. So, why invest millions of DOLLARS on the latest agricultural machineries?.

There was a time when Dominicans performed all the work.. My ftaher tells me in that in the early 50's almost 100% of privately owned farms hired Dominicans workers and since back then families were much larger all males and able females would often work on the farm.... So you see there was a time when we were self sufficient.. If the government wants a more productive society this is something that has to be promoted and encouraged.

Chilli,
Obviously it would be haitian workers, because that's what the government wanted when they allowed the employers to continuing to hire at pennies on a dollar. The low pay will never allow a dominican to become a beast of burden. Now, even in the states, children look at crop picking as a WET BACKS( The Undocumented) job.

I challenge anybody to come to the Juan Dolio (Metro, Guavaberry), and Via España in SPM; and you will notice that the construction industry is run by Haitian hands. In fact, some of the so called “ maestros” or supervisors are Haitians. It is a well organized industry tied to the ruling administration. This inmigration problem is simply a revolving door.

Even in Cuba sugar cane cutting has been mechanized. Same with Brasil and many other agriculturally strong countries. Why the DR has resisted mechanization and the capital investment that it requires? The answer is:
The cheap, resilient and strong haitian work force that is right next door.
Any DR employer wil tell you that they will prefer to hire a haitian worker, than a Dominican. That is a down hill choice, why is that?
Because haitians workers, work so hard that you literally have to stop them from working. They demand nothing, they are low maintenance, they do not request any benefits, and they work for whatever pay they are promised, sometimes just for food alone. How can anyone compete against that?
Modern day slavers that are demanding the continued influx of haitian illegals, into DR territory are the ones that underpay these abused immigrants, and then fire and dispose of them at will.

they are low maintenance, they do not request any benefits,(end of q)

I would called it "liability free". It is modern day slavery (G's quote), without the “whip and the overseer”.

The construction industry is DR is about 90% haitian run, and has been for years. Again, you will notice the artisan way of construction methodology, laying cement blocks by hand, one at a time, instead of using prefabricated structures. Why is that? Because haitian labor is so cheap, and demand no benefits. The haitians work, live, cook, and do their sanitary needs in the same place.
They do not have to commute to work, or pay a hostel or house, once they are done for the day, they sleep in the same work place, cook their meals, and take a shit in the empty lot next door.
This is the reality of the economic advantages for the construction industry of hiring haitians workers.
If they where to hire Dominican workers, they would have to pay them twice as much, and provide transportation, housing, and employee benefits, raising the cost of construction to private investors, AS WELL AS governmental projects that hire these illegals.

After 12 years of NARCO PLD Political Administrations led by the “Genius” Lie-onel Fernandez the chickens of Doing Nothing to Deal with this situation are coming home to Roost or Should I say to Rot!


Maybe Saint Danilo can Round up the PURPLE "NoNos" to go work in the fields!


Well maybe not because then who would ride the Magic METRO!

Waaaaaah...! without Haitians our crops will perish,waaaaaaahhhh...!
This is BULLSH*T!
Pay Dominicans to do the job,period.

Isn't it ironic that the same people that defend the hiring of Haitian illegals for little to nothing are the same ones that complaint about the living conditions and treatment of these poor people?

Can't win.

How about Haitians growing some b@lls and standing up to their own government?

Sounds like the DR can't live with them and can't live without them.

Roberto Jose,

Thank you for being honest.

Written by: hernandez5482,

"There was a time when Dominicans performed all the work.. My father tells me in that in the early 50's almost 100% of privately owned farms hired Dominicans workers and since back then families were much larger all males and able females would often work on the farm.... So you see there was a time when we were self sufficient.. If the government wants a more productive society this is something that has to be promoted and encouraged."


Yes, but then Trujillo started on his Sugar Quest and taking back lands from many of these same farmers caused many out of farming. Also, to man his labor input, guess who Trujillo worked out agreements? That's right, the Haitian Government which "sold" its own laborers for hire to Trujillo!

Thus this sad development is a very tangled mess with many irresponsible persons on both sides of the island. Certainly the poor Dominicans have it the worst, since they are the ones who face the downward pressures on wages

Guys, not stereotyping because that will never be me.... A Dominican told me that it is better to hire Haitians because they don't complain. They don't complain about pay, they don't complain about conditions, they don't complain about anything (according to him). He said that a Dominican will agree to your pay offer but as soon as he/she starts working will start complaining about the pay (its not enough)...they will need more money for the work, etc., etc. Not sure if this is part of the problem.

BS propaganda!!!

There are some lazy @..s fellows over here that keep complaining and dont go to work..I am going to send those anti dominicans of Josie's Ano & Ingle to take care of the crops, instead of posting nonsense, so they can finally get a job!

Written by: chilliwestaziz, 17 Jan 2013 1:57 PM
From: Jamaica

Questions:

How's it going in Jamaica? I didn't know the Greeks had taken over from the Brits?


And how are Haitian workers treated in Jamaica?

Ohhh boca e burra/Half-breed,

The old Haitian cutter from Consuelo misses you. How are your ESL classes?.

Another thing that comes to mind is the so called “Dominicans Pride”; unlike Cuba after the Revolution, where to being part of the sugarcane harvest, was a patriotic duty, and a symbol of nationalism. Dominicans view sugarcane-cutting as a humiliating and denigrating task. Even the most needy and humble peasant would tell you, “ We don’t do that; that’s for the Haitians”.

ingle23
During Trujillo if you where picked up in the streets, without shoes, or a few pesos in your pocket and ID, you where arrested and sent to forced labor camps, such as the sisal or sugar plantations. Sugar cane cutting is back breaking and hard work, it is also specialized in nature, requiring not only resistance to the bright sun, few breaks, low maintenance and the ability to go without fluids, for extended periods, but a particular dexterity with the use of the machete, and knowing the precise heights and angles, to cut the cane, so they will, grow back year after year.
Haitians are particularly crafted at this science, and they have even migrated to Cuba, for that purpose, even though Fidel, sent them all back. The Cuban "voluntarios" after the Cuban revolution, did such a mess with the sugar cane fields, that they where never used again.

G,

Like always with a deep and detail explanation. BTW, Sisal was sort of a hard-labor concentration camp?.
Thanks.

G,

Thanks again; I do not see any short-range solution to this dilemma. The stakeholders have too much too lose; too many " silent partners".

What Generoso states about Dominicans being out in the street unemployed during certain hours is correct.

Also, the nature of the work, cutting sugar is no joke, I once tried it out for fun and you need to strike the cane in such a manner, degrees, or the blade might not go through and get caught.

Mechanization and finding significant alternatives for our own labor force should have been the concern of the DR leadership. But as we all know by now, it's the profits that talk.

We're in a Royal mess with powerful interest groups that will fight hard to retain these money making operations.

So what are the choices available?

Anyone have some good, PRACTICAL ideas?

Atabey,

Haitians, for the most part are treated well over here in Jamaica. Two reasons, one - they don't come over in packs looking for work. Walking across the border is too easy. If they get on a boat, they usually go north towards Miami. I am sure that if they came over in large groups, they would not be allowed to stay... They would be treated very well. Fed, clothed, gifted with a small amount of money, and sent back in style. Our poor will revolt if they had to compete with foreigners for jobs.

Just like Colombia (Valle del Cauca) and Brazil we need to replace the so called "cutters" with modern machinery (Harvester). Once again, the utilization of Haitian labor is way beyond the sugarcane mills and the annual crop harvest; this illegal labor force is embedded in every blue collar economic sector of the country.

the problem is greed if the dominicans get paid a decent salary i am sure that they would do the work , the problem is that they get done done cheaper by the haitians . haitians have no choice , but to do the work for scrap , they is nothing in haiti . and dominicans arte veryu dumb to see whats going on .. soon they will take over the whole country . watch out they are coming .

Written by: lmartinez, 17 Jan 2013 3:49 PM
From: United States

"the problem is greed if the dominicans get paid a decent salary i am sure that they would do the work "


Go back to the old era before US capital moved in, and almost the entire sugarcane workforce was Dominican. There were even men from Puerto Rico coming to work.

But as soon as the main goals were efficiency and profitability the Dominican workforce in the Sugarcane fields slowly started to wane until it's almost completely dominated by workers from Haiti.

chilliwestaziz,== years ago we brought in Jamaicans to do slave labour. You can go to many sections of this country and find Jones,Black,Kelly etc. Also Panama.

"Written by: ingle23, 17 Jan 2013 2:25 PM
From: United States, brooklyn, NY
Another thing that comes to mind is the so called “Dominicans Pride”; unlike Cuba after the Revolution, where to being part of the sugarcane harvest, was a patriotic duty, and a symbol of nationalism."

Ingle, i've meet Cubans that had to do the" patriotic duty" several weeks a year and they hated it!
I havent meet the first one that was a volunteer..!

but you are probably used to that patriotic duty based on your experience.. Right?

So, please, you, Basta an d josie's ano, stop posting nonsense that you don't know nothing about..

Yes, Haitians will work for nothing. They will do back breaking work for a plate of food, a spot to wash up and sleep for a night. However, how long do you think a human can take it? Yes, Haitians work like animals, but Dominican employers forget they are still human beings and as such will only take so much; one day they will rebel. Does anyone by any chance remember the slave uprising in neighboring Haiti? Yes, Haitian slaves woke up one day and said Fxxk-it, I aint taking this shxxt. You can take this job and shove it, I aint working here no more then proceeded to slaughter the white French slave masters until none were left. If the DR keeps hiring Haitians as slaves, abusing and taking advantage of their misery, the DR will pay dearly. And just like the French, the Dominican people will be "slaughtered" and although not literally, the DR will pay dearly, yet the authorities fail to see it. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

Just look at the "ninis". Put these lazybones to forced labour in the fields and you don't need Hailtians working for slaves' salaries.

Basta,

You are right. Jamaicans have worked in the DR. Check your history and you will find that many Dominicans used to go to Haiti to cut cane. Barbancourt used to hire Dominicans to cut cane to supply rum production. Poor people will always find a way out of the misery where they are to find a better situation; no matter how tiny that may be. I think.

What I can't understand is why so many of you are calling it 'slave wages'? What is the minimum wage in the DR? People tell me that most Dominincan factory workers in the DR make around 2,000 Dominican pesos per week. Am I wrong? I was told that a construction worker (Haitian) makes around $400 - $500 Dominican pesos per day. If the Haitians are getting slave wages, what are the Dominican factory workers getting?

The price of rice that Haiti is importing from Vietnam is going to change things over there. Remember I said this; just in case I have to tell you doubters 'I told you so' one day. The DR will try to block Haitians selling this rice at the markets but it will not be successful. Haitians and Dominicans and Jamaicans for that matter love rice. The Haitians will move away from buying Dominican rice and the Dominicans will move towards buying Haitian imported rice. The DR will try to block it by imposing high import tariffs but it won't work. The rice will get through; as porous as the border is. Remember I said this!

The Dominican Republic's minimum wage is 4,900 Dominican pesos a month in the FTZs and between 4,485 and 7,360 pesos outside the FTZs, depending upon the size of the company; 2,600 pesos per month for the public sector; 150 pesos a day for farm workers who are covered by minimum wage regulations, based on a 10-hour day; 95 pesos per day for cane workers in the sugar industry.

Boca e burro,
Generoso is one of the few Patriota that I respect on this site. You are just a pathetic moron.

What is amazing is your lack of knowledge...pppsss..
patriotic "duty"...!

Guillermone,

Thank you for the info. The 95 pesos per day surprises me. I am guessing that meals and lodging are included or who could survive on that? If placed in that situation (there by the Grace of God go I) I would prefer to wash cars in the streets or work alongside the construction guy making 400 pesos per day. Cane work is very hard and I can't imagine construction being tougher than that.

Now ,the goverment is going to bring cubans to do the job.

Felix Bautista-Leonel, spend RD 50, 000 in one day!!! parting with their thugs!!

You All Need to STFU!!!!!!!

GD, give the Haitians a foking break, already!

Some of you guys are so full of hait..

We are All Brothers and Sisters

LOL

They Ain't my brothers, hey once the people are starving they will pick the vegetables for FREE!!

Tu quieres Yuca!!???

Boca e burro that Punk A****s is not my brother; he is half Haitian and Baituanero (new word).

I have read all these comments and as an owner of a bananas farm in the DR want to tell all of you that I have tried for the past 10 years to hire Dominican workers and very few want the job and others just can't handle the work. The salaries are much higher then workers in the free zone and all have benefits.The reality is that they don't want to work on the farms. There will be more then 30 per cent of the farms closing this year as the DR unlike all other bananas producing countries does not in any way help the farmers.Unfortunately the majority of farms would close without Hatian workers leading to a loss of thousands of local jobs.

I have read all these comments and as an owner of a bananas farm in the DR want to tell all of you that I have tried for the past 10 years to hire Dominican workers and very few want the job and others just can't handle the work. The salaries are much higher then workers in the free zone and all have benefits.The reality is that they don't want to work on the farms. There will be more then 30 per cent of the farms closing this year as the DR unlike all other bananas producing countries does not in any way help the farmers.Unfortunately the majority of farms would close without Hatian workers leading to a loss of thousands of local jobs.

Ingle you talk too much mired a call ate maldito haiano

MG I bet you that you resemble a Haitian cutter!! put you shiggity on the table!!!

Imarty,

You just got promoted on the daily Status Report.!

Congrats!!

HE PURPLE DRAGON MEDAL RIBBON. Daily Update as of DTG: 18JAN 13. (2140 EST)
CITATION:

THE PDMR is awarded to the following ignorant, functional illiterates, third world morons; for their contribution and dedicated effort in support of the Purple Dragon thugs and corrupt Dominican ruling elite. This group of dedicated rabid ASS-KISSERS, BOCA DE BURROS, are the pundits of the Purple Dragon cause in DT.

OHHHVICTOR AKA BOCA E’BURRA-DANILO (PHOTO FINISH RESULTS).
IMARTINEZ
CARLOSFRANCo
JHC-
DON B DUMB (SILENT)
JARABACOA
BERNIES
AnthonyC (same as John, MEGA A***Hs)
ATABEY
TRUJILLO
LAREGLA
DREAMKILLER AKA: Sandusky
LV ROD
PEPE32
NOTE:
If you feel that you need to be part of this distinguished, award winning group of idiots; please let us know, and we will be delighted to make you part of this pack of plague infested RATS.

Callate maldito Haitiano shhhhhhhhhhhhhhi burro negro sucio

2001DUCK
The Dominican laborer has risen in the economic ladder, and requires and demands more money, and better working conditions. This economic rule has been experienced in many other countries that have witnessed mass but controlled migration, from foreign nationals that come to fill a gap, in the economic ladder. We are not objecting that policy, which is good for all and good for the economy.
But remember that that the DR is a country with 10 million inhabitants, and we can not sustain an influx of 20% of our population, not of hard working laborers, with complete families, but the poorest class and most destitute classes in Haiti. The homeless, sick, elderly, minors, unemployed, uneducated and most without any ID papers. No country can sustain and support this Tsunami of illegal immigrants, that taxes our infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals, transportation, and harms our ecosystem, fresh water and power supply.

@Generoso-Carajo !!!!!.......

Asi es como se habla...............

G,

Way over his head (Duck).

You're blind to the fact that you're blind))
It's not about being a bigot , you chocolate briquette!!! It's about registering and paying taxes as a laborer and not extending your allotted time in a foreign country.

better take a long look at all the dominicans in the states.....

MAN THEY RAPE THE STSTEM.... ON THE BOOKS OFF THE BOOKS, SELL DRUGS MAKE $1,000 PAY NO TAXES OR GIVE ANY THING WORTH WHILE BACK TO THEIR HOST COUNTRY....
COME ON GUY U KNOW THE GAME U KNOW BETTER THEN ANY ONE DONT U?
SEC. #8.... FOOD STAMPS....... MEDS....... SCHOOLS.....
YEAH THE DOMINICANS ARE WAITING IN LINE AT THE TAX OFFICE IN NEW YORK CITY TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE........???....
U WANT MORE? MAN I WILL GIVE U NAMES OF VERY RICH DOMINICANS WHO I KNOW THAT ARE GETTING FOOD STAMPS AND OTHER PROGRAMS.

not many dominicans living and working in the dr that pay their fair share do they?
i had a small business in the dr years ago i went to the tax guy once a month and paid my dues... many laugh at me for doing this {dominicans}
they said the governmenment guys rob all the money and they will not pay one peso.
choo choo.
all aboard........

one ass---hole who has a great business in new york city he also has many homes.... he built a beautiful apt building in pop......
this guy has lots of money..
one day he asked me if i knew a good lawyer in new york city..
i said why? said his wife was arrested for taking section *8 free money for thie rent....... this piece of s....t... in the end he had to pay back over $58,000 to the government....
his building is in pop......
man i give u names if u really need this but u know the games dominicans paly....
hey! look at plaza central in santo domingo... man they robbed millions for the luz company...
choo choo train...
all aboard the bull...t express. what a joke.

Without the cheap labor subsidy provided by illegal imigration America would not have the Housing construction boom it had. Without that same subsidy food prices would not be so cheap. Same goes for DR get over your selves.

@ Generoso I respect the fact every now & than when you are not blinded by patriotism you willing to write an honest post in regard to this issue, specially in regard to the treatments of those Haitian workers.

That's right, Pat, but you have to take into account that this is the US reality the one you're talking about. In the colonial reality of the DR, on the other hand, the segment of the population that is displaced by these inmigrants more often than not ends up being absorbed by criminal elements, due to the private sectors inability (or unwillingness) to absorb this floating labor at once. People more often than not, when comparing the US to the DR reality, fails to take into account the differing positions one country and the other occupy in the international food ladder. The one a multinational Empire, the other a neo-colony, at the best of times.

Lautaro,

Now add that other dimension you stated having discussed with Manhattanite some time ago concerning the capital in-flows from aboard, remensas, that support many Dominican families and in your opinion-I believe-stifle the willingness of many Dominicans to take on wages commensurate with their individual productivity level.


This is a very complicated problem and I don't think that elimination of the Haitian labor input can/will be part of the discussion. No way. Better organization and documentation of those working and LEGALLY entitled to entry must be made the existing reality in DR . Paying contributions, taxes, to at least contribute to the significant costs associated with their participation in the DR labor market will go some ways in bettering things. I think many of us just want an organized sector and not this chaos that brings so many uncertainties and disruptions to the daily lives of Dominicans.

Those Haitians-and there are many thousands- living off begging and not under labor contract need to be repatriated back to Haiti. The Haitian State and nation need to support their people.

Those Haitians under contract should be allowed to work while under contract without any problem. Securing a modern efficient identification system to work this out is urgently needed.

Slowly, DR and Haiti should work out some mechanism that is backed by international organizations and governments in support of this policy.

"Haitianos levantan protesta frente a la sede de Ministerio de Trabajo

LOS 112 EXTRANJEROS FUERON TRASLADADOS A UN LOCAL EN HAINA

“Nosotros esperamos que el Gobierno dominicano nos dé una garantía de los haitianos que quieren quedarse para trabajar aquí y seguir trabajando para poder mantener a sus familias que viven en Haití”, agregó."


The keys here are that the Haitians have consideration to stay while UNDER CONTRACT and in order to support their FAMILIES BACK IN HAITI.

If those conditions at met, I see no reason for any dispute. And I think many Dominicans will see it that way too. The problem we have are the large undocumented very poor illegal population that has arisen in DR. That population needs to be addressed in a humanely initiated campaign of repatriation.

says Generoso

The construction industry is DR is about 90% haitian run, and has been for years. Again, you will notice the artisan way of construction methodology, laying cement blocks by hand, one at a time, instead of using prefabricated structures. Why is that? Because haitian labor is so cheap, and demand no benefits. The haitians work, live, cook, and do their sanitary needs in the same place.

Jamaica has been building prefabricated houses for low income people since the late 1950s. build a slab on a machine, and put it together in the selected location. you build a large number in a short space of time. however, if there was a situation such as exists in the DR, where there is a burgeoning slave class, i am sure they would still be using 1950s methods to build houses. this is the caribbean. there is no need for complex construction, with things like insulation. slabs of construction are the most important component. machines should be making those.

says Atabey

Now add that other dimension you stated having discussed with Manhattanite some time ago concerning the capital in-flows from aboard, remensas,

remesas are not capital inflows.

Transfers, then.

says Professor Atabey

Now add that other dimension you stated having discussed with Manhattanite some time ago concerning the capital in-flows from aboard, remensas, that support many Dominican families and in your opinion-I believe-stifle the willingness of many Dominicans to take on wages commensurate with their individual productivity level

so, Atabey, what stifles the work ethic of the people who do not get remittances?

Atabey says: "Now add that other dimension you stated having discussed with Manhattanite some time ago concerning the capital in-flows from aboard, remensas, that support many Dominican families and in your opinion-I believe-stifle the willingness of many Dominicans to take on wages commensurate with their individual productivity level."

Yep, as long as the value of remittances keeps being higher than the one they could get on construction/agrarian ventures, the common Dominican will refuse to enslave (cuz' that's what working at the current wages amounts to) himself to the current salaries offered by those sectors. That's why I, in full coherence with what I preach here, want for the US/Europe to tighten their migratory requirements, because it will force the governing classes here to up their game and finally give the Dominican worker the salary he/she deserves, instead of recurring to the cheap resource of importing labor (which is equal to importing the problems, IMHO).

A solution may be on the horizon? I am aware of several major contruction projects due to start soon on the other side of the island. I also know several Dominicans bounds for the other other side to work on some those projects. My feeling, if the Dominicans traveling to Haiti to work are qualified? Go for it and hope they are treated well and receive a salary commensurate to cost of living and market value. As for the potentialcrop failure, send all Haitianos back to Haiti so plakate all DT members and accept the crop failure as is.

i agree with you, Mr Lautaro, but only insofar as the particular laborer in question has a family member abroad from whom he or she is receiving a remittance. several Dominican girls, with jobs, will leave that particular occupation, staying home and doing nothing, as soon as they meet a gringo who will give them money. it is easier to stretch out their hands and take free money, rather than to work. however, that is only applicable in the cases of women who actually meet a gringo who has an interest, or they do not have that option available.

Well I wouldn't hold my breath on Europe doing so given what Germany's Merkel said not so long ago. Basically that the EU with 7percent of the world's population and 25 percent of its GDP has 50percent of the world's social costs. According to her unsustainable. The US has even less appetite for restricting immigrants, may even allow many of its current 11million illegals to register for possible legalization soon.

Dready,

Lautaro answered part of your question and the young senoritas not, your other inquiry.

I don't see a way forward unless strong identification methods are employed and a significant economic expansion gets underway in Haiti, thus stemming the flows eastward.

says Atabey

Dready,

Lautaro answered part of your question and the young senoritas not, your other inquiry.

i cannot translate this

so, Atabey, what stifles the work ethic of the people who do not get remittances?

They are engaged in "other" pursuits: drugs, prostitution, petty and serious crimes, theft- the gamut. And some are just plain lazy.

And the others are PLD "NONOS!"

says Atabey

Written by: Atabey, 21 Jan 2013 10:59 AM
From: United States, NYC

so, Atabey, what stifles the work ethic of the people who do not get remittances?

They are engaged in "other" pursuits: drugs, prostitution, petty and serious crimes, theft- the gamut. And some are just plain lazy.

which means that the salary scales or relative remunerations have no effect on their decisions to work. they are lumpenproletariat, and cannot be swayed by a paycheck.

"they are lumpenproletariat, and cannot be swayed by a paycheck."

Some are no doubt, but I would not characterize all the same. With a stronger State and given a better educational opportunity environment, some of these people will adjust according. There are some that will never change, no matter how much resources are devoted to their edification and preparation. But I would not think this represents all of them.


An interesting idea is what might happen to the transfers now going directly to support families back in DR. Might it not be of greater economic benefit to set-up a Country Investment Fund dedicated towards making investments in DR? Years ago, over 20!, I remember having this conversation with a friend.

Perhaps you and Lautaro have some thoughts concerning this idea.

are you serious? do you mean like a situation in which Dominicans abroad put their money in a pool, rather than sending it directly to relatives? you must be joking, right? who is going to administer the fund? how many times have there been scandals in the US of Dominican community funds which have been embezzled? forget it. it will never happen. every Dominican knows that someone will find a way to steal it.

Dready,

It would work like those Country Funds of the 1990s. Investors would buy stock in the fund and this Fund would choose from several investment opportunities. In theory it can work. No doubt strong internal and external oversight mechanisms would need to be operational, but why don't?

It sure would be MORE beneficial than merely spending it to relatives. The following study makes clear that of the over 3 billion sent from aboard-remesas- by Dominicans, 2/3 of the funds go towards consumption with little LONG TERM economic benefit for the nation.

I don't think it's such a far fetched idea.



"El impacto de las remesas en el desarrollo y consumo dominicano"

"en 2010 las remesas dominicanas ascendieron a más o menos US$3,400 millones equivalente a 7% del PIB, 80% de los ingresos del turismo, 98% la factura petrolera y 120% sobre el monto de inversión extranjera."

" de US$3,400 millones, los cuales ayudan la balanza de pagos; las mismas sólo benefician a 20% de los hogares dominicanos (más o menos 500,000 hogares).

A continuación pueden verificar que las remesas no son repartidas de forma equitativa por cada región del país:

Cibao: US$1,530 millones (45%)
Gran Santo Domingo: US$1,360 millones (40%)
Este: US$340 millones (10%)
Sur: US$170 millones (5%)
Las remesas dominicanas tampoco son gastadas de forma equitativa entre consumo e inversiones:

Comida y artículos de primera necesidad: US$2,040 millones (60%)
Educación: US$578 millones (17%)
Lujos y otros: US$204 millones (6%)
Negocios: US$170 millones (5%)
Ahorros: US$170 millones (5%)
Propiedades: US$136 millones (4%)


En conclusión, las remesas enviadas por la diáspora dominicana radicada en Estados Unidos, Europa y América Latina ayuda a incrementar los niveles de consumo y a sacar de la pobreza a cientos de miles de hogares."

"También es un componente muy importante en la balanza de pagos. Sin embargo, más de dos terceras partes del monto es gastado en consumo de poca relevancia para el desarrollo económico del país a largo plazo. Esto conlleva un costo de oportunidad que pudiese tener mejor rendimiento en la creación de empleo, en el incremento en la calificación de un gran segmento de la mano de obra, y en la productividad del país si la mayor parte se invirtiera en educación, negocios,ahorros y propiedades."

Por otro lado, queda claro que el alza de la productividad y el desarrollo económico del país depende más de los esfuerzos que el mismo Estado y el sector privado empresarial tanto local como extranjero impulsan con el mantenimiento de la estabilidad macroeconómica y el crecimiento de las inversiones."

Otro detalle que también queda claro es que la economía interna dominicana, en su gran mayoría, depende más del crecimiento de la productividad y el crecimiento orgánico de la clase media y media-alta local. La noción que la economía interna dominicana se sustenta de las remesas no es más que un mito que ha sido ampliamente difundido pero que carece de fundamento."

The opportunity cost of 2/3 of the 3,4 Billion going to consumption with little long term economic development of the DR is not main issue.

Even if we could move these funds towards a 50-50 balance it would be more favorable to economic development. Might even get a few Dominicans off their behinds and take up some legal form of work, too.

Source:

economistadominicano.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/el-impacto-de-las-remesas-en-el-desarrollo-y-consumo-dominicano/

Atabey you are totally off subject now.
Re our suject matter: We should let the crops perish then. This alarmist and fatalistic warning is just a scare tactics that is being used by the agricultural moguls, that exploit and benefit from the cheap labor that is offered by the haitian illegals.
We should be talking about the DRAIN on foreign exchange, when the haitians convert their pesos to haitian dollars or gourdes, to remit to their families in Haiti, further depressing our balance of payments deficit.

General, my buddy and i were sitting in a restaurant last evening, and four young Haitian girls walked by. all with kids on their arms, 3 pregnant. my buddy opined that the deportation process should start with illegal pregnant women. free trip to the border. if they are allowed to have more and more kids here, that magnifies the problem. next, work permits for men only. stringent requirements for casual visas. what say you, General?

I agree. The other big "elephant in the living room", that nobody sees or acknowledges, is population control and mandatory sterilization for both Haitians and Dominicans, that are multiplying at an alarming rate. If this matter is not addressed promptly and vigorously, poverty will multiply in an exponential rate, in the next 10 years or so.
PS: At the restaurant, did you suggest paying cash, so they will remove the ITBS? lol.

PS: At the restaurant, did you suggest paying cash, so they will remove the ITBS"


You just put a arrow into IDIOT IRS Atabey TAX MUGGING heart!

General, your thinking is not out of line with the realities of the situation. heck, China did it...well, at least restricted family size

PS: At the restaurant, did you suggest paying cash, so they will remove the ITBS? lol.

i always pay cash. if i do not have the money on me, i don't buy it.

DEPORT THOSE ILLEGALS!!!

OOOHH TRUJILLO YOU ONCE AGAIN!!!!

The solution is simple:

Put all those jail birds in Najayo and La Victoria, to forced labor in the fields for free.

If they try to escape shoot them.


Hire those (piti garsom) only for sugar cane cutting on on a labor contract.

Cutting season over, deport them back to Haiti.

That's the only thing, they are good for anyway.

Deport those illegals.


Another solution is to mechanize agriculture, and fuel it with ethanol produced from the sugar cane.

DEPORT THOSE ILLEGALS!!!!

QUE VIVA TRUJILLO!!!

Be carefull Dread??? China and India are having severe problems with they population control, not saying it should not be implemented by DR or any other country. It is a necasary evil!!! The issue is with the preference of boys over girls and with modern technology, girls are being aborted at an alarming rate. Now, future projection, too many males running around looking for females.

Hey rocky boy, I need a favor my brodel... can you, porfavor???