Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. - Santo Domingo

RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision.

By the way, this is an interesting list:

Key figures in Haiti
Source: The Associated Press (2007)

Jean-Bertrand Aristide
A former slum priest, Aristide was extremely popular when he became Haiti’s first freely elected leader in 1990. The army ousted him in 1991, brutalizing and murdering his supporters until the United States intervened in 1994. Aristide was re-elected president in 2000 but gradually lost support due to allegations of fraud. He was forced out of office under international pressure on Feb. 29, 2004, as rebels gained control of most of the country.

Andy Apaid Jr.
The most outspoken leader of the opposition coalition, Apaid is a factory owner born in the United States. His family fled Haiti under Francois Duvalier, or “Papa Doc,” who ruled from 1957 to 1971.
Favoring pressed pastel shirts and gold-rimmed glasses, Apaid looks like a Miami businessman but says he is totally Haitian at heart.
“I am just as much a part of this country as anyone,” Apaid, in his early 50s, said recently. “That’s why I am saying we must choose another path for the country.”
But without a constitutional amendment, he will never become president because of his dual nationality.

Evans Paul
Another top figure in the opposition coalition, Paul is a former mayor of Port-au-Prince, the Haitian capital, who was in hiding from the brutal military regime during much of his term until U.S. troops arrived in 1994.
Paul, who is in his late 40s, was head of a center-left coalition that nominated Aristide for president in 1990. Paul managed Aristide’s successful election campaign but broke ranks after Aristide left him out of his inner circle.
A playwright and journalist when dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier ruled Haiti, Paul was jailed for opposing him.

Guy Philippe
The 36-year-old leader of a motley band of rebels that sparked the latest turmoil, Philippe joined the revolt a week after it was started in Gonaives by a street gang that used to terrorize Aristide’s opponents and turned on Haiti’s president after its leader was assassinated.
Philippe came from neighboring Dominican Republic, where he fled in 2000 amid charges he was plotting a coup.
Philippe was born to peasants near the provincial town of Jeremie and is a former army officer who training at a military academy in Ecuador when Aristide disbanded the army. He returned to Haiti and was named by Aristide as former assistant police chief for northern Haiti.
Haiti’s military has a history of ruling with brutality, but Philippe says soldiers should stay in the barracks and insists that, under his command, things would change.

Butteur Metayer
The street gang leader who started Haiti’s rebellion freely admits that he used to go around terrorizing Aristide’s opponents. Metayer says Aristide armed his Cannibal Army gang for that purpose. The gang turned on Aristide after gang leader Amiot Metayer, Butteur’s brother, was assassinated last year, accusing the government of silencing him to prevent him giving damaging information about Aristide. Aristide denied any involvement with the gang. Butteur, who wears bands of bullets across his chest, has small ambitions: In mid-February, he declared himself president of Haiti’s central Artibonite district.

Louis-Jodel Chamblain
This sergeant in the now-disbanded Haitian army headed death squads in 1987 that intimidated voters before the army aborted November elections in a bloodbath of voters. After the army ousted Aristide in 1991, he became co-leader of the feared FRAPH death squad that is blamed for the murder, torture and maiming of hundreds of Haitians, particularly Aristide’s slum supporters. He fled to the Dominican Republic when U.S. troops intervened in 1994, and returned to the country in mid-February to join the rebellion. Chamblain has been convicted, in absentia, and received two sentences of life imprisonment for his role in a 1994 raid on Gonaives’ Raboteau slum — where Metayer holds sway today — and the 1993 assassination of Aristide financier Antoine Izmery.

Boniface Alexandre
Haiti’s Supreme Court chief justice, who said he was taking charge of the government until a new one is set up. Rebels say they have accepted the move. In his 60s, Alexandre has a reputation for honesty but could face a legal obstacle: The Haitian constitution calls for parliament to approve him as leader, and the legislature has not met since early this year when lawmakers’ terms expired. He was appointed chief justice 10 years after becoming a member of the Supreme Court in 1990, and once represented the French embassy in 25 years as a lawyer. "The task will not be an easy one," said Alexandre. "Haiti is in crisis. ... It needs all its sons and daughters. No one should take justice into their own hands."

#6 - Posted 16 April 2009, 2:28 PM
CarlosFranco Location: United States, Brooklyn Join date: December 2007 Member #: 40 Posts: 1396	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. Quote: PeRod previously said: By the way, this is an interesting list: Key figures in Haiti Source: The Associated Press (2007) Jean-Bertrand Aristide A former slum priest, Aristide was extremely popular when he became Haiti’s first freely elected leader in 1990. The army ousted him in 1991, brutalizing and murdering his supporters until the United States intervened in 1994. Aristide was re-elected president in 2000 but gradually lost support due to allegations of fraud. He was forced out of office under international pressure on Feb. 29, 2004, as rebels gained control of most of the country. Andy Apaid Jr. The most outspoken leader of the opposition coalition, Apaid is a factory owner born in the United States. His family fled Haiti under Francois Duvalier, or “Papa Doc,” who ruled from 1957 to 1971. Favoring pressed pastel shirts and gold-rimmed glasses, Apaid looks like a Miami businessman but says he is totally Haitian at heart. “I am just as much a part of this country as anyone,” Apaid, in his early 50s, said recently. “That’s why I am saying we must choose another path for the country.” But without a constitutional amendment, he will never become president because of his dual nationality. Evans Paul Another top figure in the opposition coalition, Paul is a former mayor of Port-au-Prince, the Haitian capital, who was in hiding from the brutal military regime during much of his term until U.S. troops arrived in 1994. Paul, who is in his late 40s, was head of a center-left coalition that nominated Aristide for president in 1990. Paul managed Aristide’s successful election campaign but broke ranks after Aristide left him out of his inner circle. A playwright and journalist when dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier ruled Haiti, Paul was jailed for opposing him. Guy Philippe The 36-year-old leader of a motley band of rebels that sparked the latest turmoil, Philippe joined the revolt a week after it was started in Gonaives by a street gang that used to terrorize Aristide’s opponents and turned on Haiti’s president after its leader was assassinated. Philippe came from neighboring Dominican Republic, where he fled in 2000 amid charges he was plotting a coup. Philippe was born to peasants near the provincial town of Jeremie and is a former army officer who training at a military academy in Ecuador when Aristide disbanded the army. He returned to Haiti and was named by Aristide as former assistant police chief for northern Haiti. Haiti’s military has a history of ruling with brutality, but Philippe says soldiers should stay in the barracks and insists that, under his command, things would change. Butteur Metayer The street gang leader who started Haiti’s rebellion freely admits that he used to go around terrorizing Aristide’s opponents. Metayer says Aristide armed his Cannibal Army gang for that purpose. The gang turned on Aristide after gang leader Amiot Metayer, Butteur’s brother, was assassinated last year, accusing the government of silencing him to prevent him giving damaging information about Aristide. Aristide denied any involvement with the gang. Butteur, who wears bands of bullets across his chest, has small ambitions: In mid-February, he declared himself president of Haiti’s central Artibonite district. Louis-Jodel Chamblain This sergeant in the now-disbanded Haitian army headed death squads in 1987 that intimidated voters before the army aborted November elections in a bloodbath of voters. After the army ousted Aristide in 1991, he became co-leader of the feared FRAPH death squad that is blamed for the murder, torture and maiming of hundreds of Haitians, particularly Aristide’s slum supporters. He fled to the Dominican Republic when U.S. troops intervened in 1994, and returned to the country in mid-February to join the rebellion. Chamblain has been convicted, in absentia, and received two sentences of life imprisonment for his role in a 1994 raid on Gonaives’ Raboteau slum — where Metayer holds sway today — and the 1993 assassination of Aristide financier Antoine Izmery. Boniface Alexandre Haiti’s Supreme Court chief justice, who said he was taking charge of the government until a new one is set up. Rebels say they have accepted the move. In his 60s, Alexandre has a reputation for honesty but could face a legal obstacle: The Haitian constitution calls for parliament to approve him as leader, and the legislature has not met since early this year when lawmakers’ terms expired. He was appointed chief justice 10 years after becoming a member of the Supreme Court in 1990, and once represented the French embassy in 25 years as a lawyer. "The task will not be an easy one," said Alexandre. "Haiti is in crisis. ... It needs all its sons and daughters. No one should take justice into their own hands." These are all CROOKS Perod... If this is the future of Haiti... The haitians are once again condemned to live another 50 years of misery until these guys pass away, that is if they are not replaced and since there's no shortage of crooks in Haity as reflected in their history i'll add another 50 years to the first 50, and thats me being optimistic...
	Post IP: 96.224.182.11*

#1 - Posted 16 April 2009, 1:42 PM
PeRod Location: Dominican Republic Join date: June 2008 Member #: 887 Posts: 1577	Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. It has been impossible for me to have a constructive interchange with the Haitians present in this forum about Haiti’s future. Those Haitians only like to talk about their past and they forget that year by year we celebrate on January 26 the birthday of the Dominican man who was a vital figure in our Separation process from Haiti, on February 27 our Separation from Haiti, on March 19 a victory over Haitian forces, on March 30 another victory over Haitian forces and so on until November 6, when we celebrate our first constitution after our Separation from Haiti. Year by year we are the whole year celebrating that we managed to get out of our country those savages who invaded the Eastern part of the island, with a weak country in those times that was absolutely helpless. We do not need to talk about our past, we know it very well and we still remember that twenty two years long nightmare. And there is another problem. The Haitians now have their own version of the Universal history where, of course, they are the center of the universe and they strongly believe their own lies. To talk with persons intentionally so blinded by falsenesses (and even hypocrisy) necessarily have to lead to a battlefield and that is precisely what we have here, battlefields everywhere. This space does not pretend to be another battlefield. This is an open forum and, of course, anyone can express his or her opinion, but the goal is to know what a group of very well talented Dominicans (as is the case with the people over here) think about what we (as a nation) must do about Haiti and about what Haitians must do with their own country. Here nobody can be right or can be wrong. Everybody is going to write about his or her personal point of view. For every particular person his or her perspective is the “right” perspective and here we must respect that essential part of the human condition. In the past, we were the eternally forgotten of Spain and we have achieved to raise this nation. We have been the owners of our destiny and we will be ever the owners of our destiny, but thanks to Paris we are not alone in this island. Let us talk about Haiti.
	Post IP: 200.88.81.21*

#2 - Posted 16 April 2009, 1:44 PM
PeRod Location: Dominican Republic Join date: June 2008 Member #: 887 Posts: 1577	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. This is a very interesting comment made by a distinguished Dominican journalist. Haiti only has now three possibilities for finding some acceptable destiny: 1. A serious trust for about 25 years dedicated to reclaim the forests, taking down the countrymen and the countrywomen from the mountains and avoiding that they kill the remaining trees, and that at least guarantees integral education to their population up to 30 years, and thereafter to leave them on their own. 2. A “Devastating” civil war with no quarter that decants the population and that later they have a government of force that reorganizes the country for 25 years or more, to the style that Chiang Kai Shek used in Taiwan. 3. The improbable one via that the western powers and the UN try now and that does not seem to be any successful in the foreseeable future. Although the Haitians realized the epic of the Independence as early as in the 1804, and that is possibly the reason of their internal weakness, and the fact that its population exhibits a great sense of the patriotism but not social solidarity, the truth is that nothing suggests the possibility that they can realize the civilizing feat of the third option. And our criterion is to wait for the possible thing, not for what we see and we understand that is impossible. Perhaps we are mistaken, but my observation of the Haitian situation and the patient study of its history does not leave other opinion to me. I am sorry. Silvio Herasme Peña Journalist, analyst of subjects of the present time and former Dominican Ambassador in Colombia. (He has been Dominican Ambassador in Haiti).
	Post IP: 200.88.81.21*

#3 - Posted 16 April 2009, 1:49 PM
PeRod Location: Dominican Republic Join date: June 2008 Member #: 887 Posts: 1577	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. By the way, this is an interesting list: Key figures in Haiti Source: The Associated Press (2007) Jean-Bertrand Aristide A former slum priest, Aristide was extremely popular when he became Haiti’s first freely elected leader in 1990. The army ousted him in 1991, brutalizing and murdering his supporters until the United States intervened in 1994. Aristide was re-elected president in 2000 but gradually lost support due to allegations of fraud. He was forced out of office under international pressure on Feb. 29, 2004, as rebels gained control of most of the country. Andy Apaid Jr. The most outspoken leader of the opposition coalition, Apaid is a factory owner born in the United States. His family fled Haiti under Francois Duvalier, or “Papa Doc,” who ruled from 1957 to 1971. Favoring pressed pastel shirts and gold-rimmed glasses, Apaid looks like a Miami businessman but says he is totally Haitian at heart. “I am just as much a part of this country as anyone,” Apaid, in his early 50s, said recently. “That’s why I am saying we must choose another path for the country.” But without a constitutional amendment, he will never become president because of his dual nationality. Evans Paul Another top figure in the opposition coalition, Paul is a former mayor of Port-au-Prince, the Haitian capital, who was in hiding from the brutal military regime during much of his term until U.S. troops arrived in 1994. Paul, who is in his late 40s, was head of a center-left coalition that nominated Aristide for president in 1990. Paul managed Aristide’s successful election campaign but broke ranks after Aristide left him out of his inner circle. A playwright and journalist when dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier ruled Haiti, Paul was jailed for opposing him. Guy Philippe The 36-year-old leader of a motley band of rebels that sparked the latest turmoil, Philippe joined the revolt a week after it was started in Gonaives by a street gang that used to terrorize Aristide’s opponents and turned on Haiti’s president after its leader was assassinated. Philippe came from neighboring Dominican Republic, where he fled in 2000 amid charges he was plotting a coup. Philippe was born to peasants near the provincial town of Jeremie and is a former army officer who training at a military academy in Ecuador when Aristide disbanded the army. He returned to Haiti and was named by Aristide as former assistant police chief for northern Haiti. Haiti’s military has a history of ruling with brutality, but Philippe says soldiers should stay in the barracks and insists that, under his command, things would change. Butteur Metayer The street gang leader who started Haiti’s rebellion freely admits that he used to go around terrorizing Aristide’s opponents. Metayer says Aristide armed his Cannibal Army gang for that purpose. The gang turned on Aristide after gang leader Amiot Metayer, Butteur’s brother, was assassinated last year, accusing the government of silencing him to prevent him giving damaging information about Aristide. Aristide denied any involvement with the gang. Butteur, who wears bands of bullets across his chest, has small ambitions: In mid-February, he declared himself president of Haiti’s central Artibonite district. Louis-Jodel Chamblain This sergeant in the now-disbanded Haitian army headed death squads in 1987 that intimidated voters before the army aborted November elections in a bloodbath of voters. After the army ousted Aristide in 1991, he became co-leader of the feared FRAPH death squad that is blamed for the murder, torture and maiming of hundreds of Haitians, particularly Aristide’s slum supporters. He fled to the Dominican Republic when U.S. troops intervened in 1994, and returned to the country in mid-February to join the rebellion. Chamblain has been convicted, in absentia, and received two sentences of life imprisonment for his role in a 1994 raid on Gonaives’ Raboteau slum — where Metayer holds sway today — and the 1993 assassination of Aristide financier Antoine Izmery. Boniface Alexandre Haiti’s Supreme Court chief justice, who said he was taking charge of the government until a new one is set up. Rebels say they have accepted the move. In his 60s, Alexandre has a reputation for honesty but could face a legal obstacle: The Haitian constitution calls for parliament to approve him as leader, and the legislature has not met since early this year when lawmakers’ terms expired. He was appointed chief justice 10 years after becoming a member of the Supreme Court in 1990, and once represented the French embassy in 25 years as a lawyer. "The task will not be an easy one," said Alexandre. "Haiti is in crisis. ... It needs all its sons and daughters. No one should take justice into their own hands."
	Post IP: 200.88.81.21*

#4 - Posted 16 April 2009, 2:01 PM
AfroLatino Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. That is not true. When the Haitians want to talk about future relations to co-habit the Island amicable through peace and reconcilliation, it is largely reject by most Dominicans on here. However, I agree that not just Haitians bot both Dominicans and Haitians seem to be stuck with the negativities and resentments of the past which is why you have threads denigrading, defaming one and the other vastly in so many ways on here by autodidact scholars making their own versions of self-proclaimed innacurate Histories on both sides. I mean, the very socio-problems of the island are so complexly interlated yet more so driven by race, classism and by historical resented mistakes of the past and conditioning state of minds instilled to many by White Europeans whom we never demonized given the firm knowledge of all their evil deeds which apparently they have succeeded at continuously conquering and enslaving. When with not the chain, but means of ideologies that are glorified by many who have come to hate their very own other people of colors and variation of mixes by thinking or claiming supremacy over others.
	Post IP: 55.209.28.17*

#5 - Posted 16 April 2009, 2:10 PM
AfroLatino Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. Quote: PeRod previously said: By the way, this is an interesting list: Guy Philippe The 36-year-old leader of a motley band of rebels that sparked the latest turmoil, Philippe joined the revolt a week after it was started in Gonaives by a street gang that used to terrorize Aristide’s opponents and turned on Haiti’s president after its leader was assassinated. Philippe came from neighboring Dominican Republic, where he fled in 2000 amid charges he was plotting a coup. Philippe was born to peasants near the provincial town of Jeremie and is a former army officer who training at a military academy in Ecuador when Aristide disbanded the army. He returned to Haiti and was named by Aristide as former assistant police chief for northern Haiti. Haiti’s military has a history of ruling with brutality, but Philippe says soldiers should stay in the barracks and insists that, under his command, things would change. You see with him, not everybody can agree by what he has done. Facts and records have shown that he was being paid or sponsored by the US CIA which most of their weaponries also were given/ perhaps aquired from the Dominican Republic and that is not said to put direct blames on DR. However, CARICOM also investigated and found evidence to back it up. Read up on that a little bit further if I may ask you to do so. What he did was to score his own quarerel and vendetta he had with Aristide basically. Did you know he was arrested by the very US and was caught in all sorts of implicated drug deals and other wrong doings of corruptions? One thing I always say and agree with so many Dominicans and other Haitians is that Haiti's very own is destrying it withthe assistance of Foreign International Influences of course as well...
	Post IP: 55.209.28.17*

#7 - Posted 16 April 2009, 3:17 PM
belly51 Location: Dominican Republic, San Francisco y Houston,TX Join date: February 2009 Member #: 2144 Posts: 389	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. [QUOTE=AfroLatino] [QUOTE=PeRod] [I]By the way, this is an interesting list:[/I] You see with him, not everybody can agree by what he has done. Facts and records have shown that he was being paid or sponsored by the US CIA which most of their weaponries also were given/ perhaps aquired from the Dominican Republic and that is not said to put direct blames on DR. However, CARICOM also investigated and found evidence to back it up. Read up on that a little bit further if I may ask you to do so. What he did was to score his own quarerel and vendetta he had with Aristide basically. Did you know he was arrested by the very US and was caught in all sorts of implicated drug deals and other wrong doings of corruptions? One thing I always say and agree with so many Dominicans and other Haitians is that Haiti's very own is destrying it withthe assistance of Foreign International Influences of course as well... [/QUOTE] Haitians are destroying Haiti and allowing others to dump everything there.Haiti needs a strong leader willing to kill a couple for the good of the general public since there is no money to save everybody they must only save those willing to respect the motherland. I know it sound very bad to kill people but if nothing like this is done then just don't see nothing changing for a long time. I'm from san francisco and back in the 80s and 90s police brutality was a major problem and the solution by the public was to murder a couple of them and they did. This is not the best case scenario but it worked there because now days police respects the public and know well not to mess with and also the public respects the law is most cases. now days people trust the police and respect them.in my hometown we united and sent the message we are not going to take that and it was a very clear message that police brutality was not an option. We were willing to help local police but we had to trust them first. it feels good to say the last Bank robberie there was in 1993. "He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Great countries start with great men and moral values" By Belly51
	Post IP: 99.157.68.7*

#8 - Posted 16 April 2009, 3:27 PM
TN1804 Location: Canada, Montreal Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2474 Posts: 480	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. My opinion on this is that the futur of Haiti Start by the return of Aristide in his country.
	Post IP: 64.111.92.23*

#9 - Posted 16 April 2009, 3:33 PM
AfroLatino Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. Quote: CarlosFranco previously said: These are all CROOKS Perod... If this is the future of Haiti... The haitians are once again condemned to live another 50 years of misery until these guys pass away, that is if they are not replaced and since there's no shortage of crooks in Haity as reflected in their history i'll add another 50 years to the first 50, ]and thats me being optimistic... Indeed, these are all crooks and there are no shortage of them. From Senators, Deputies to the Elites; they all corrutivelly see self interest of their own pocket. The future of and for Haiti does not lie in the hands of these crooks. Haiti, I must honestly say, needs a dictatorship yet progressive enough to errect Haiti in a morebetter progressive state of mind. My proposals are and many can agree or disagree if they woud like; but that is my platform. Even though and as expectedly Education should be first, however, I would start the list off with... 1. MilitarizeHaiti. 2. Build Plenty Of Prisons 3. Decongestion Of Port-Au-Prince. 4. Agricultural Reforms. Ask me why first for each before denigate my proposal so that I could explain why I stand where I stand on this. Edited on 4/16/2009 3:34 PM by AfroLatino.
	Post IP: 55.209.28.17*

#10 - Posted 16 April 2009, 3:36 PM
AfroLatino Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284	RE: Haiti’s future: The Dominican vision. Quote: TN1804 previously said: My opinion on this is that the futur of Haiti Start by the return of Aristide in his country. Personally I often agree with many other Dominicans on here. Haiti does have a habit of regressing too much in the past. Aristide is the past and with that being said we need new leaders and those leaders will not come from Haiti per say; but rather Haitians who have observed and exposed to other well functioning systems out of the norms of the corruption in Haiti.
	Post IP: 55.209.28.17*

November 21, 2009, Updated 7:05 AM
Search

Login \| Not a member? Create your account \| Lost your password?
User		Password

Advertisement
Sponsored Links