Haiti the displaced are forgotten..AGAIN! - Santo Domingo

#879 - Posted 24 January 2010, 3:28 PM
Belly Location: United States, Seattle, W.A. Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2555 Posts: 3423	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: generoso previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here. Two questions arise Belly. 1. What was the simulated magnitude of the tests in the video? 2. What is the cost factor of this type of materials versus reinforced concrete. I also noticed that the base of the building in the first test is a "soft foundation" which is not optimal. Experts consider that buildings CAN be made earthquake "proof", to an extent of course of a magnitude less than 8 or so on the richter scale. But the cost factor reduces the total construction per meter to about 33% less. In other words lest assume you have a budget to build 300 meters of reinforced cement structures, if you insert all the earthquake specifications then you can only build 200 meters instead. That is the decision to be made in earthquake areas, increase the cost by 35% or reduce the amplitude of the building, which might not be commercially or economically attractive. The earthquake in the video as far as I read was 7.4 which is a big one when it comes to earthquake for such a large building. It's true that anyway you slice it it cost more to build earthquake proof building which is a down turn when you building in a poor country. To me they should build a master plan of the whole city that way they know where they can place building and how high they can go in areas where tectonic plates meet in PAP.I still think container homes would be a way out for Haiti since is cost effective and USA has enough laying around to build the whole city at a much lower price.They are not the best but compared to what they have today is much better than anything they have even before the quake. Edited on 1/24/2010 3:30 PM by Belly. "People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"
	Post IP/Country: 76.237.22.17* / US

RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR -

Quote:

abc200 previously said:

Quote:

generoso previously said:

Quote:

Belly previously said:

Quote:

mandouafrika previously said:

Quote:

Belly previously said:

That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it.

Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed.

Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here.

Two questions arise Belly.
1. What was the simulated magnitude of the tests in the video?
2. What is the cost factor of this type of materials versus reinforced concrete.

I also noticed that the base of the building in the first test is a "soft foundation" which is not optimal.
Experts consider that buildings CAN be made earthquake "proof", to an extent of course of a magnitude less than 8 or so on the richter scale. But the cost factor reduces the total construction per meter to about 33% less. In other words lest assume you have a budget to build 300 meters of reinforced cement structures, if you insert all the earthquake specifications then you can only build 200 meters instead. That is the decision to be made in earthquake areas, increase the cost by 35% or reduce the amplitude of the building, which might not be commercially or economically attractive.

Lightweight Bamboo structures are preferable to concrete.
http://www.inbar.int/Board.asp?Boardid=127
In time a lot of bamboo could be grown in Haiti.
S.

The problem with bamboo is where do you get it in a cost effective manner to come into Haiti.I think the rebuilding should be done with materials available locally to kill two birds at the same time. It would provide jobs in the construction industry plus for the local companies that build the materials too which will create more jobs. Remember this is Haiti and not California where they have a choice to build on any material and be cost effective due to their high construction prices.

Edited on 1/24/2010 3:40 PM by Belly.

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"

#871 - Posted 21 January 2010, 2:39 PM
generoso Location: United States, Quisqueya Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1291 Posts: 9121	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: Belly previously said: Quote: generoso previously said: It is virtually impossible to enforce building codes in Haiti, and it is a wet dream that will not happen for some time, but I agree with Belly that at least the main buildings that will be coming up in the future, like government offices, hotels, schools, hospitals, police stations, jails, and public housing units, must abide by these standards, under strict international supervision. Many of the buildings that came down did not have lots of rebar reinforcement and that caused their prompt destruction, and many experts are recommending demolishing and cleaning the slate and starting brand new, with the proper earthquake construction guidelines. That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Good point with the US embassy, I was not aware of that. There is a prominent expert on earthquake building and reinforcement in Haiti right now, and he happens to be a Japanese with roots in California. I hope the Haitians listen to him. He is recommending new construction all together, in most cases. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
	Post IP/Country: 201.229.209.9* / DO

#872 - Posted 21 January 2010, 2:42 PM
generoso Location: United States, Quisqueya Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1291 Posts: 9121	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. I really like the domes idea mandou, but the ones that are built with styrofoam are very expensive and not cost effective. Is there any other possibility with the same type of shape? I happen to hold a patent in a construction design, based on the tension theories of Bucky Fuller, and love round shapes. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
	Post IP/Country: 201.229.209.9* / DO

#873 - Posted 21 January 2010, 3:17 PM
Belly Location: United States, Seattle, W.A. Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2555 Posts: 3423	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here. "People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"
	Post IP/Country: 76.245.210.16* / US

#874 - Posted 24 January 2010, 9:39 AM
generoso Location: United States, Quisqueya Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1291 Posts: 9121	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: Belly previously said: Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here. Two questions arise Belly. 1. What was the simulated magnitude of the tests in the video? 2. What is the cost factor of this type of materials versus reinforced concrete. I also noticed that the base of the building in the first test is a "soft foundation" which is not optimal. Experts consider that buildings CAN be made earthquake "proof", to an extent of course of a magnitude less than 8 or so on the richter scale. But the cost factor reduces the total construction per meter to about 33% less. In other words lest assume you have a budget to build 300 meters of reinforced cement structures, if you insert all the earthquake specifications then you can only build 200 meters instead. That is the decision to be made in earthquake areas, increase the cost by 35% or reduce the amplitude of the building, which might not be commercially or economically attractive. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
	Post IP/Country: 190.166.30.16* / DO

#875 - Posted 24 January 2010, 10:51 AM
abc200 Location: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1307 Posts: 10348	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: generoso previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here. Two questions arise Belly. 1. What was the simulated magnitude of the tests in the video? 2. What is the cost factor of this type of materials versus reinforced concrete. I also noticed that the base of the building in the first test is a "soft foundation" which is not optimal. Experts consider that buildings CAN be made earthquake "proof", to an extent of course of a magnitude less than 8 or so on the richter scale. But the cost factor reduces the total construction per meter to about 33% less. In other words lest assume you have a budget to build 300 meters of reinforced cement structures, if you insert all the earthquake specifications then you can only build 200 meters instead. That is the decision to be made in earthquake areas, increase the cost by 35% or reduce the amplitude of the building, which might not be commercially or economically attractive. Lightweight Bamboo structures are preferable to concrete. http://www.inbar.int/Board.asp?Boardid=127 In time a lot of bamboo could be grown in Haiti. S.
	Post IP/Country: 190.167.74.4* / DO

#876 - Posted 24 January 2010, 11:03 AM
Blutarsky Location: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone Join date: October 2009 Member #: 3809 Posts: 10122	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - you have been using to many Big Bambu rolling papers al capo di tutti capi de los trolls
	Post IP/Country: 66.98.33.6* / DO

#877 - Posted 24 January 2010, 1:14 PM
Glimmertwin Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1932 Posts: 1271	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: generoso previously said: I really like the domes idea mandou, but the ones that are built with styrofoam are very expensive and not cost effective. Is there any other possibility with the same type of shape? I happen to hold a patent in a construction design, based on the tension theories of Bucky Fuller, and love round shapes. Gen: If the styrofoam isnt cost effective, where is the upside on that alternative?
	Post IP/Country: 75.74.76.17* / US

#878 - Posted 24 January 2010, 1:28 PM
abc200 Location: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1307 Posts: 10348	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: Glimmertwin previously said: Quote: generoso previously said: I really like the domes idea mandou, but the ones that are built with styrofoam are very expensive and not cost effective. Is there any other possibility with the same type of shape? I happen to hold a patent in a construction design, based on the tension theories of Bucky Fuller, and love round shapes. Gen: If the styrofoam isnt cost effective, where is the upside on that alternative? Lots of dome houses out there ....... easy to make in fibreglass http://omnidome.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/104668336-100000510/Prefabricated_Omni_Dome_House.html styrofoam etc . http://www.i-domehouse.com/characters.html For the 22 billion dolllars it costs the US to build a single aircraft carrier two million domes could be given to Haiti. S. Edited on 1/24/2010 1:46 PM by abc200.
	Post IP/Country: 190.167.74.4* / DO

#880 - Posted 24 January 2010, 3:34 PM
Belly Location: United States, Seattle, W.A. Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2555 Posts: 3423	RE: Solution's To Haiti's problems can not come just from DR - Quote: abc200 previously said: Quote: generoso previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: Quote: mandouafrika previously said: Quote: Belly previously said: That's true, Like I said if the will is there to do it then it can be done but we already have enough proof that the will to do anything have never been there so why should Building codes enforcement be any different. I'm afraid that the same mistake will happen where ever the capital gets to be but I think they will build the new palace in a much better structure kind of like the one in DR with thicker walls and better structure enforcement to withstand the disasters better.Just look at the US Embassy in Haiti possibly the only building standing due to the fact it was build of USA Building Code matter of fact not even earthquake prove but better Building code there prove to be effective. They should allow the expert in California build the new palace since they know a lot about Earthquake proof building or maybe Japan could also be another one on the list to build it. Haiti enforcing codes of any sort is at best laughable. I hope at least Haitian homes/dwellings/whatever you want to call them are built using domes this time. Domes while ugly can be hurricane and earthquake resistant depending how they are constructed. Well then now you going back to my first point Enforcing Building codes. It don't matter what shape the building structure has if the rules are not followed then we going back to the same things. A disaster waiting to happen.The shape of the building is not what makes it withstand a disaster is the quality of the building even though a round shape makes more sense still vulnerable if Building codes and laws are not followed.To me the quicker solution for Haiti now would be container homes which can be free and fast solution since money is a challenge in the case of Haiti. Japaneses that done a lot of research in earthquake and found that actually the process of building is more important than the materials they use. Check out this video here. Two questions arise Belly. 1. What was the simulated magnitude of the tests in the video? 2. What is the cost factor of this type of materials versus reinforced concrete. I also noticed that the base of the building in the first test is a "soft foundation" which is not optimal. Experts consider that buildings CAN be made earthquake "proof", to an extent of course of a magnitude less than 8 or so on the richter scale. But the cost factor reduces the total construction per meter to about 33% less. In other words lest assume you have a budget to build 300 meters of reinforced cement structures, if you insert all the earthquake specifications then you can only build 200 meters instead. That is the decision to be made in earthquake areas, increase the cost by 35% or reduce the amplitude of the building, which might not be commercially or economically attractive. Lightweight Bamboo structures are preferable to concrete. http://www.inbar.int/Board.asp?Boardid=127 In time a lot of bamboo could be grown in Haiti. S. The problem with bamboo is where do you get it in a cost effective manner to come into Haiti.I think the rebuilding should be done with materials available locally to kill two birds at the same time. It would provide jobs in the construction industry plus for the local companies that build the materials too which will create more jobs. Remember this is Haiti and not California where they have a choice to build on any material and be cost effective due to their high construction prices. Edited on 1/24/2010 3:40 PM by Belly. "People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"
	Post IP/Country: 76.237.22.17* / US

May 23, 2012, Updated 6:47 AM
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