Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Haiti » Haiti the displaced are forgotten..AGAIN!
#801 - Posted 11 October 2009, 8:02 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry
Join date: November 2008
Member #: 1609
Posts: 1791
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Now more than ever we need to build this wall.

Calling Los Patriotas, your country needs you!

"PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry"

Post IP/Country: 75.45.2.6* / US
Advertisement
Sponsored Links
#802 - Posted 11 October 2009, 10:25 PM
Location: Dominican Republic
Join date: June 2009
Member #: 2945
Posts: 803
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.
Post IP/Country: 24.199.89.* / US
#803 - Posted 11 October 2009, 11:29 PM
Location: United States, DR
Join date: August 2008
Member #: 1291
Posts: 8401
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Both popon and micaela are more aware of the problem than most men, here is an article that came out in today's Listin diario, by world class author, historian and ambassador Victor Grimaldi.



Domingo 11 de Octubre del 2009, actualizado 4:19 PM

La fusión que denunciaba Balaguer
Víctor Grimaldi - 10/11/2009

Recuerdo aquel 16 de agosto de 1994 en los salones de la Magna Asamblea Nacional.

Recuerdo al Cuerpo diplomático asombrado.

Recuerdo a los incrédulos de entonces.

Le llamaban racista.

Decían que se trataba de una de las tantas tramposerías del viejo zorro político.

Tantas aguas han corrido desde entonces por los ríos Ozama, Isabela y Masacre, y la realidad ha demostrado ser contundente.

Joaquín Balaguer a temprana edad había discurseado contra las tropas de ocupación norteamericanas de 1916-1924. Se daba cuenta en 1994 de que la invasión militar norteamericana que habría de iniciarse en Haití en septiembre de 1994 iba a tener funestas consecuencias para el pueblo dominicano. Por eso hubo de denunciar en su discurso de juramentación el plan de fusión en marcha.

Juan Bosch también había denunciado el peligro de la fusión en unas declaraciones que solamente aparecieron en El Caribe alrededor de abril o mayo de 1994.

Ahora nos dice una nota de El Caribe del pasado sábado que: “No podrá ser casualidad que en menos de tres semanas dos ex presidentes de EE. UU. y otras figuras de ese país coincidan de que Haití y RD deben estar unidos, y que es imposible controlar el flujo migratorio hacia el Este de la isla”.

Los pronunciamientos del ex presidente norteamericano Jimmy Carter, junto a declaraciones similares de Bill Clinton, también ex presidente de Estados Unidos, reflejan una clara línea de la política estadounidense respecto a las relaciones domínico-haitiana y la solución de los problemas de ambos países, entiende El Caribe.

Igualmente, el coordinador principal para iniciativas económicas de la Dirección de Asuntos Hemisféricos del Departamento de Estado, Charles Shapiro, declaró hace unos días que “no se pueden tratar los problemas de Haití y República Dominicana como dos cosas aparte”.

De la misma forma, la señora Kerry Kennedy, fundadora del Centro Pro Derechos Humanos Robert Kennedy, deploró “la pobreza extrema” en que, dijo, viven los inmigrantes hatianos, y pidió a las autoridades dominicanas que entreguen las documentaciones correspondientes a los inmigrantes, dice El Caribe.

Las reacciones de representantes de diversos sectores han sido muy contundentes. Está el caso del cardenal Nicolás de Jesús López Rodríguez, quien sentenció que como nación libre y soberana República Dominicana no puede aceptar intromisiones en su política interna, recuenta el matutino.

El historiador Euclides Gutiérrez Félix, agrega El Caribe, dirigente del Partido de la Liberación Dominicana (PLD), dijo que es un plan bien orquestado, porque las naciones desarrolladas no quieren el inmigrante haitiano, porque “lamentablemente tiene enfermedades ancestrales”.

Manifestó que no es casual que Carter hable de un plan binacional, y dijo que está completamente convencido que el tema del sarampión y la viruela es sólo un pretexto para unificar la isla.

“El presidente de ahora de Haití se llama, a partir de ahora, Bill ClintonÖ”, agregó.

Seguimos citando a El Caribe:

Hugo Tolentino Dipp, ex canciller y dirigente perredeísta, afirma que “tenemos que ser sinceros y honestos ante nosotros mismos, porque el problema no se resolverá si no se controla la frontera”.

Lo atribuye a Ongs

El embajador Radhamés Batista, presidente del Consejo Nacional de Fronteras, dijo que las posiciones externadas por altos funcionarios y políticos estadounidenses, de que República Dominicana “sea el Estado pivote que se encargue de administrar la crisis haitiana” es parte de la vieja campaña de las Organizaciones no Gubernamentales (ONGs) pagadas para esos fines. Insistió en que la comunidad internacional debe asumir su responsabilidad y acudir en auxilio de la República de Haití, en vez de tratar que sea el país que asuma la pesada carga.

“Las grandes potencias que son las grandes culpables de este problema se le ha ido la vida en promesas de ayuda sin asumir su compromiso”, añadió Batista.

Los antecedentes

Bill Clinton

“Hay que buscar solución conjunta”

“La solución a los problemas hay que abordarlos de forma conjunta entre República Dominicana y Haití, y no cada uno por su lado. Hay optimismo de las demás naciones latinoamericanas para ayudar a Haití”.

Jimmy Carter

“No se pueden separar”

“Los dos países están atados, no hay forma de separarlos tienen que cooperar entre síÖ No existe posibilidad de evitar la migración desde Haití a República Dominicana, ni los países ricos resuelven el problema migratorio”.

Mary Kerry Kennedy

“Haitianos necesitan su identificación”

“Mientras ellos (los haitianos) tratan de vivir en la pobreza más absurda, la suerte de su miseria es la incapacidad del Gobierno de reconocer sus derechos como dominicanos, a la educación, trabajo decente”.

Reacciones

Hugo Tolentino Dipp

“Necesitamos reglas claras”

“No creo que sea un plan específico de que República Dominicana se haga cargo de Haití; el problema es que el país no tiene reglas claras para controlar la migración, la frontera es un colador.”

López Rodríguez

“No aceptamos imposiciones”

“La República Dominicana está haciendo por Haití más que todos los demás países juntos. Existe la pretensión de Estados Unidos, la comunidad internacional de que el país absorba los problemas de Haití como si fueran propios”.

Euclides Gutiérrez

“Quieren unificar la isla”

“Han designado a dos ex presidentes, las figuras de mayor crédito internacional para la ejecución del plan de crear un solo estado. Es una idea de los proyectistas externos de Estados Unidos, Canadá y Francia”.



"Speak softly, and carry a big stick, you will go far".
Post IP/Country: 201.229.209.14* / DO
#804 - Posted 11 October 2009, 11:42 PM
Location: United States, DR
Join date: August 2008
Member #: 1291
Posts: 8401
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
Micaela previously said:

I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.



Great ideas Micaela, and welcome back. We have not been enough activists for this cause and bit by bit we are losing our country, while we snooze. The DR is being flooded by the unwanted Haitians and they are all over the place. In stop lights begging and selling trinkets they used to be 3 or 4, now there are a dozen, and the discredit campaign continues, and we are being singled out, harassed, persecuted by the PC crowd, the pro-Haitian traitors disguised as "patriots" and the hundreds of ONG's.
"Speak softly, and carry a big stick, you will go far".
Post IP/Country: 201.229.209.14* / DO
#805 - Posted 12 October 2009, 1:14 AM
Location: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Join date: April 2009
Member #: 2589
Posts: 545
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
Micaela previously said:

I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.



Great ideas Micaela, and welcome back. We have not been enough activists for this cause and bit by bit we are losing our country, while we snooze. The DR is being flooded by the unwanted Haitians and they are all over the place. In stop lights begging and selling trinkets they used to be 3 or 4, now there are a dozen, and the discredit campaign continues, and we are being singled out, harassed, persecuted by the PC crowd, the pro-Haitian traitors disguised as "patriots" and the hundreds of ONG's.


The best way to spread the message and make every dominican aware of this issue is going back to the resources and methods that Juan Pablo Duarte and Los Trinitarios used to gain popular support, today this task can be easily accomplished using today's technology, such as e-mails, websites, networking sites like Facebook. Booklets, photocopies or printed information may work to an extent, however, it's expensive and inefficient, on the other hand an e-mail can go accross the world in days.
I support any human and well orchestrated action to control haitian illegial immigration, but first we need to make our people aware and gain the support necessary to get our government attention.
Edited on 10/12/2009 1:16 AM by perlurdom.
"La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée" - Charles de Talleyrand-Périgord
Post IP/Country: 68.7.32.10* / US
#806 - Posted 12 October 2009, 3:11 AM
Location: Dominican Republic, PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry
Join date: November 2008
Member #: 1609
Posts: 1791
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
Micaela previously said:

I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.



I definitely agree, we already talked enough and need to start now working now.
First thing we need to do is to start a newsletter so we can distribute via e-mail. We could ask Dominicanos por la Verdad to see if they could help us posting an official newsletter in their site that any body could copy and distribute to relatives and friend forming a chain.

Since the old timers and not affluent ones may not use the internet, pamphlets is a must as well.
By doing this we will be Helping Haitians rebuild their own country.

Can make it a goal to start sending out this newslater before the end of this month?

Of course we must always reiterate we do not sick violence but civility.

Yes together we could pay for an add, that is a wonderfull idea.


Edited on 10/12/2009 3:13 AM by poponlaburra.
"PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry"

Post IP/Country: 75.45.2.6* / US
#807 - Posted 12 October 2009, 3:43 AM
Location: Dominican Republic, PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry
Join date: November 2008
Member #: 1609
Posts: 1791
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Both popon and micaela are more aware of the problem than most men, here is an article that came out in today's Listin diario, by world class author, historian and ambassador Victor Grimaldi.



Domingo 11 de Octubre del 2009, actualizado 4:19 PM

La fusión que denunciaba Balaguer
Víctor Grimaldi - 10/11/2009

Recuerdo aquel 16 de agosto de 1994 en los salones de la Magna Asamblea Nacional.

Recuerdo al Cuerpo diplomático asombrado.

Recuerdo a los incrédulos de entonces.

Le llamaban racista.

Decían que se trataba de una de las tantas tramposerías del viejo zorro político.

Tantas aguas han corrido desde entonces por los ríos Ozama, Isabela y Masacre, y la realidad ha demostrado ser contundente.

Joaquín Balaguer a temprana edad había discurseado contra las tropas de ocupación norteamericanas de 1916-1924. Se daba cuenta en 1994 de que la invasión militar norteamericana que habría de iniciarse en Haití en septiembre de 1994 iba a tener funestas consecuencias para el pueblo dominicano. Por eso hubo de denunciar en su discurso de juramentación el plan de fusión en marcha.

Juan Bosch también había denunciado el peligro de la fusión en unas declaraciones que solamente aparecieron en El Caribe alrededor de abril o mayo de 1994.

Ahora nos dice una nota de El Caribe del pasado sábado que: “No podrá ser casualidad que en menos de tres semanas dos ex presidentes de EE. UU. y otras figuras de ese país coincidan de que Haití y RD deben estar unidos, y que es imposible controlar el flujo migratorio hacia el Este de la isla”.

Los pronunciamientos del ex presidente norteamericano Jimmy Carter, junto a declaraciones similares de Bill Clinton, también ex presidente de Estados Unidos, reflejan una clara línea de la política estadounidense respecto a las relaciones domínico-haitiana y la solución de los problemas de ambos países, entiende El Caribe.

Igualmente, el coordinador principal para iniciativas económicas de la Dirección de Asuntos Hemisféricos del Departamento de Estado, Charles Shapiro, declaró hace unos días que “no se pueden tratar los problemas de Haití y República Dominicana como dos cosas aparte”.

De la misma forma, la señora Kerry Kennedy, fundadora del Centro Pro Derechos Humanos Robert Kennedy, deploró “la pobreza extrema” en que, dijo, viven los inmigrantes hatianos, y pidió a las autoridades dominicanas que entreguen las documentaciones correspondientes a los inmigrantes, dice El Caribe.

Las reacciones de representantes de diversos sectores han sido muy contundentes. Está el caso del cardenal Nicolás de Jesús López Rodríguez, quien sentenció que como nación libre y soberana República Dominicana no puede aceptar intromisiones en su política interna, recuenta el matutino.

El historiador Euclides Gutiérrez Félix, agrega El Caribe, dirigente del Partido de la Liberación Dominicana (PLD), dijo que es un plan bien orquestado, porque las naciones desarrolladas no quieren el inmigrante haitiano, porque “lamentablemente tiene enfermedades ancestrales”.

Manifestó que no es casual que Carter hable de un plan binacional, y dijo que está completamente convencido que el tema del sarampión y la viruela es sólo un pretexto para unificar la isla.

“El presidente de ahora de Haití se llama, a partir de ahora, Bill ClintonÖ”, agregó.

Seguimos citando a El Caribe:

Hugo Tolentino Dipp, ex canciller y dirigente perredeísta, afirma que “tenemos que ser sinceros y honestos ante nosotros mismos, porque el problema no se resolverá si no se controla la frontera”.

Lo atribuye a Ongs

El embajador Radhamés Batista, presidente del Consejo Nacional de Fronteras, dijo que las posiciones externadas por altos funcionarios y políticos estadounidenses, de que República Dominicana “sea el Estado pivote que se encargue de administrar la crisis haitiana” es parte de la vieja campaña de las Organizaciones no Gubernamentales (ONGs) pagadas para esos fines. Insistió en que la comunidad internacional debe asumir su responsabilidad y acudir en auxilio de la República de Haití, en vez de tratar que sea el país que asuma la pesada carga.

“Las grandes potencias que son las grandes culpables de este problema se le ha ido la vida en promesas de ayuda sin asumir su compromiso”, añadió Batista.

Los antecedentes

Bill Clinton

“Hay que buscar solución conjunta”

“La solución a los problemas hay que abordarlos de forma conjunta entre República Dominicana y Haití, y no cada uno por su lado. Hay optimismo de las demás naciones latinoamericanas para ayudar a Haití”.

Jimmy Carter

“No se pueden separar”

“Los dos países están atados, no hay forma de separarlos tienen que cooperar entre síÖ No existe posibilidad de evitar la migración desde Haití a República Dominicana, ni los países ricos resuelven el problema migratorio”.

Mary Kerry Kennedy

“Haitianos necesitan su identificación”

“Mientras ellos (los haitianos) tratan de vivir en la pobreza más absurda, la suerte de su miseria es la incapacidad del Gobierno de reconocer sus derechos como dominicanos, a la educación, trabajo decente”.

Reacciones

Hugo Tolentino Dipp

“Necesitamos reglas claras”

“No creo que sea un plan específico de que República Dominicana se haga cargo de Haití; el problema es que el país no tiene reglas claras para controlar la migración, la frontera es un colador.”

López Rodríguez

“No aceptamos imposiciones”

“La República Dominicana está haciendo por Haití más que todos los demás países juntos. Existe la pretensión de Estados Unidos, la comunidad internacional de que el país absorba los problemas de Haití como si fueran propios”.

Euclides Gutiérrez

“Quieren unificar la isla”

“Han designado a dos ex presidentes, las figuras de mayor crédito internacional para la ejecución del plan de crear un solo estado. Es una idea de los proyectistas externos de Estados Unidos, Canadá y Francia”.






OMG superb article!!
"PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry"

Post IP/Country: 75.45.2.6* / US
#808 - Posted 12 October 2009, 6:54 AM
Location: United States, DR
Join date: August 2008
Member #: 1291
Posts: 8401
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
perlurdom previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
Micaela previously said:

I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.



Great ideas Micaela, and welcome back. We have not been enough activists for this cause and bit by bit we are losing our country, while we snooze. The DR is being flooded by the unwanted Haitians and they are all over the place. In stop lights begging and selling trinkets they used to be 3 or 4, now there are a dozen, and the discredit campaign continues, and we are being singled out, harassed, persecuted by the PC crowd, the pro-Haitian traitors disguised as "patriots" and the hundreds of ONG's.


The best way to spread the message and make every dominican aware of this issue is going back to the resources and methods that Juan Pablo Duarte and Los Trinitarios used to gain popular support, today this task can be easily accomplished using today's technology, such as e-mails, websites, networking sites like Facebook. Booklets, photocopies or printed information may work to an extent, however, it's expensive and inefficient, on the other hand an e-mail can go accross the world in days.
I support any human and well orchestrated action to control haitian illegial immigration, but first we need to make our people aware and gain the support necessary to get our government attention.


Fantastic idea, we are already three, let's get three more and start the networking. First thing we could do is translate the article to english and start sending it to different newspapers in the USA in the "opinion" section.
The Dominican people are aware, but are burdened by all the daily problems of living in the DR aggravated by the power shortages, unemployment, and general slowdown of trade, caused by the international financial crisis, all this plus the high unemployment rate caused by the unwanted Haitian immigration, and what this huge influx of poor and needy economic refugees are doing to our already stressed to the max economy.
"Speak softly, and carry a big stick, you will go far".
Post IP/Country: 201.229.209.14* / DO
#809 - Posted 12 October 2009, 8:41 AM
Location: United States
Join date: August 2009
Member #: 3407
Posts: 2120
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
poponlaburra previously said:

Now more than ever we need to build this wall.

Calling Los Patriotas, your country needs you!



the postive things that are being attempted at our frontera are the things that i was desiring to take place prior to el muro. wall or no wall the most important thing is la presencia.
Post IP/Country: 170.232.192.1* / US
#810 - Posted 12 October 2009, 8:42 AM
Location: United States
Join date: August 2009
Member #: 3407
Posts: 2120
Send Message
RE: Solutions and Trade for Haiti and Dominican Republic
Quote:
Micaela previously said:

I agree Popon, but we have to stop talking about and start working for it. You say each Dominican would pay for a block; maybe we should start by paying for few photocopies. Let's make, copy and distribute pamphlets. Hand them down them in public places, like supermarkets, mall, affix them to cars or door to door, requesting from our President and authorities in not uncertain terms, to take care of the Haitians massive presence before they became international community declares them a national minority or worse, before it turns to a Kosovo situation. Or the said pamphlets may call not to vote for the candidates that do not compromise with a solution, or anything on that line. Or just maybe, the need for that wall, before we loose our country. Together we may even pay for and add in a national newspaper or if somebody knows somebody, get a spot in an on line one.

If each of us distributes, let's say a hundred, when the government agents see enough of them, all over the country, they would be forced to do something and that would be a start.


the day it becomes kosovo is the day you will see mirabal in uniform because i have a family to worry about over there.
Post IP/Country: 170.232.192.1* / US