Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Haiti » Haitian Dilemma: Suggestions....
#1 - Posted 23 March 2009, 9:35 AM
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Haitian Dilemma: Suggestions....
Public opinion has to become more proactive to prevent the Dominican-Haitian volcano that is brewing from erupting full force. As economic conditions deteriorate further because of the world financial crisis, and the political elections in DR gets closer, more labor strikes and civilian disturbances could occur.
The still unresolved continuous Haitian exodus and indifference by both governments, for the containment will help fuel the fires of discord.
The DR and the Haitian government both conveniently do not make an effort to stop the Haitian illegal immigration or take the necessary steps to police the border, so the situation is getting more flammable as time passes. The business sectors and security apparatus of both countries exploit with
impunity the obvious business advantages of cheap Haitian labor, depressing the Dominican worker's income, and exploiting the Haitians. This together with the rising food prices, and great poverty in both the DR and Haiti are creating a desperate situation with a strong probability of civil disobedience and popular uprisings.
The international community including the USA, Canada, Brasil, France and England want the DR to act as "scapegoat" and to absorb the Haitian exodus and mass immigration, to stop the illegal Haitian and Dominican boat people from knocking at their doors, and if we continue to allow this there will be two failed states instead of one in the island.
Documentation of Haitian nationals is not our responsibility, repatriation is. An orderly and peaceful repatriation of Haitians is warranted, but it will be difficult to accomplish until better economic conditions exist in Haiti.
This is why is it our responsibility as well to make the citizens of Haiti aware, that the international community has GIVEN UP on a solution to the Haitian crisis and instead want the DR to "assimilate" the Haitian problem and accept the Haitian nationals invading our country as Dominicans.
Haitians need to understand that their survival as a nation is at stake, and they are the only ones that
need to take responsibility for the welfare of their country, not us.
We in the DR have to wake up as a nation that has been dormant with this issue for way too long, we are facing a challenge of hungry and desperate human beings that have little to lose. The odds could not be any higher as our survival as a nation is at stake.
Edited on 10/13/2009 11:51 PM by generoso.

"Is better to light a candle than curse the darkness" Confucius
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#2 - Posted 23 March 2009, 10:55 AM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
"A patriotic movement must be started in DR sooner rather than later"
So your suggestions needs to make clear when, how, what name?
Who should lead it?
Pellegrin Castillo?
Alfonso Moreno?
A non politician?
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#3 - Posted 23 March 2009, 11:09 AM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
Quote:
Inquisidor previously said:

"A patriotic movement must be started in DR sooner rather than later"
So your suggestions needs to make clear when, how, what name?
Who should lead it?
Pellegrin Castillo?
Alfonso Moreno?
A non politician?


Any of the above or all of the above. It is not a political movement, but a PATRIOTIC movement.
We should not have a political agenda, so as not to dilute our message with petty politics.
There should not be ONE leader but many. ALL can and should participate.
The name could originate in this post, how about:

Quisqueya La Bella

"Is better to light a candle than curse the darkness" Confucius
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#4 - Posted 23 March 2009, 12:49 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Public opinion has to awaken to contain the Dominican-Haitian volcano that is brewing and getting ready to erupt. As economic conditions deteriorate further and the political season gets closer, more and more labor strikes and civilian disturbances will occur.
The unresolved continuous Haitian exodus and indifference by both governments will help fuel the fires of discord.
The DR and the Haitian government both conveniently do not make an effort to contain the Haitian invasion or take the necessary steps to police the border, so the situation is getting more and more flammable as time passes. The business sectors and security apparatus of both countries exploit with
impunity the obvious business advantages of cheap Haitian labor, depressing the Dominican worker's income. This together with the rising food prices are creating a desperate situation with a strong probability of civil disobedience and popular uprisings.
The international community including the USA, Canada, Brasil, France and England want the DR to act as "scapegoat" and to absorb the Haitian exodus and mass immigration,
and if we allow this there will be two failed states instead of one in the island,
as the Dominican republic will also join the ranks of the failed states in the near future.
Documentation of Haitian nationals is not our responsibility, repatriation is. An orderly and peaceful repatriation of Haitians is warranted. But it will be difficult to accomplish until better economic conditions exist in Haiti.
This is why is it our responsibility as well to make the citizens of Haiti aware, that the international community has GIVEN UP on a solution to the Haitian crisis and instead want the DR to "assimilate" the Haitian problem and accept the Haitian nationals invading our country as Dominicans.
Haitians need to understand that their survival as a nation is at stake, and they are the only ones that
need to take responsibility for the welfare of their country, not us.

A patriotic movement must be started in DR sooner rather than later, Haitians must do the same in their country, and the Dominican and Haitian diaspora must take a more proactive role.




G:

This is a valid issue that certainly needs to be addressed immediately for the sake of the Dominican Republic's integrity (cohesiveness). I got to hand it to you; You've struck a nerve that seems to be deadened to reality that exists; to sense what time it is. However, it's with great trepidation that I must inform you that this is just one of the "ugly" aspects of GLOBALISM, and will get worse as time progresses. The powers that be (the poli-tricksians, native mavericks and tycoons, the international banksters, the United Nations, military industrial complex, big oil, secret societies, etc.) have fomented the current conditions that exist in DR at present. Can't you see that U.N. troops control Haiti? When these Haitian hordes infiltrate DR territory they receive assistance from the Jesuit Refugee Services (Jesuits are a military order of the Vatican) at the border, and they then proceed to demand legal status for flagrant violators of national laws. They then disperse throughout the DR "como Juan por su casa". This is an intentional or engineered crisis, similar to the GLOBAL "financial crisis" that plagues the planet. "It's all..... part...... of the plan" : As Heath Ledger the late actor, states in his award winning Joker role in the movie Batman.



As you state the whole world is looking at DR as having to grin and bear it. If your president galavants around the world like his one of the guys, espouses illuminati ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT philosophy, and panhandles the international financiers on the regular; Do you expect these monies not to have strings attached to them? Who do you think these guys that meet with Fernadez Reyna are? Ever heard of Rothchilds, Rockefeller? They control the world's money system, and those that play do so by their rules! They are playing for keeps, buddy. DR has become the Cuba of the 21 Century. Watch how they run up the tabs, sell everything out, prostitute the whole nine yards, then enslave it. It's what they do for a living. Running countries into debt, then they come and impose their Luciferian demads.. And it seems that one of the conditions that these powers that be have imposed with this "development" of DR scheme, is to accept every Haitian that wants to come and displace natives.



Honestly, I don't see a way out of these pact with the devil. The die has been cast. They sold out their soverignty for "development". Now we see the "ugly" side of the bargain. Things use to be so simple when there wasn't so much tourism, summits, and U.N. meddling that the PRD encouraged by their constant pleas for interventions on DR elections.

In conclusion it's the wave of the future; No illegal immigrants, just one big go where you what and when you want world; AKA chaos.....At this point in history all signs lead towards the New World Order, and that calls for regional intregtration of countries; The DR will eventually succumb to a hybrid state like Cyprus. It's sad to say, but, I think it's irreversible. Y el lio del Narco-Trafico? Salvese quien pueda, or better yet: Salgase, quien pueda!

Dios, Patria y Libertad.
Maranatha,
The King is coming.
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#5 - Posted 23 March 2009, 1:40 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
I appreciate your very vivid comments, and I must confess that I thought that the Jesuit
threat was more of the conspiracy theories going around, but I now realize that the Jesuits are very persistently and pro-actively participating in this macabre plan to unite the island.
Besides the Jesuits, Pellegrin Castillo the congressman related to me that they are 150
NGO's receiving funding from abroad to accomplish this purpose. This is no small change and 150 full time NGO's are a humungous opponent to go against.
The DR government or the department of Interior and Policia could not even publish the rules for the new immigration law that was passed 4 years ago (in 2004) after 8 years of deliberation by congress. This same law that describes the "citizens in transit" and was opposed all the way to the supreme court by the NGO's until it was ruled in favor of it.
I say we are playing with fire here and just like the citizens of Azua that rose to expel the Haitians with rocks, sticks and machetes during the independence war, the patriotic Dominicans will soon forget their benevolent hospitality and patience against the illegal Haitians and incite a situation that could get out of control and cause bloodshed.
Edited on 3/23/2009 10:16 PM by generoso.

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#6 - Posted 23 March 2009, 1:46 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
It seems like anytime Dominicans voice their very real concerns about the record amount of illegal Haitian immigrants in DR they are immediately cast as racist xenophobic zealots. Many of those who are supposedly trying to 'help' the illegal Haitian immigrants (greedy opportunist in various business sectors, corrupt guards/officials whos livelyhood depends on them, and those who have very noble intentions but going about it the wrong way and/or at our expense, etc.) equate those who disagree as anti-haitian. I guess being called 'racist, anti-Haitian, xenophobic' makes for better headlines but I challenge these people to do a world compare/contrast between DR & other countries with immigants (legal or illegal) and you will just how relatively mild and laid back Dominicans are about this. And before anyone tries to create a strawman argument out of this, this doens't mean DR is perfect, becuase it just seems to me that with certain issues a much larger yardstick is used whenever people address our problems. Exhibit A is the very real illegal Haitian immigration problem the Bahamas has, please read their papers and go to their forums and you will see many of the same concerns but I guess DR gets 'top billing'. The more powerful countries in the international community know exactly what their doing and it seems like DR's government is too corrupt/shortsighted and doesn't know how to defend itself.

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/economy/2009/3/6/31306/Illegal-immigration-keeps-workers-wages-low-lawmaker-says
SANTO DOMINGO. – Despite that it’s been eight years since the Immigration Law was debated and approved, internal and external pressures by sectors in complicity with industrialists, the Government and other organizations keep it from being enforced, said the deputy Pelegrín Castillo Friday.

The congressman (FNP-National District) said Dominican Republic’s economy is dominated by a business sector with a savage mentality that acts with no respect for the rules, and that the talk against poverty doesn’t make any sense if the traffic of undocumented people isn’t controlled. “The presence of the illegal Haitian manpower, which I call an industrial reserve army, is what causes the salaries of the Dominicans to head downward and in complicity with the authorities’ indifference,” Castillo said.

Speaking in a conference on Social Security and Immigration to mark the Construction Workers Pension and Retirement Fund’s 23rd anniversary, the lawmaker said despite Dominican Republic having Latin America’s highest economic growth, it has the worse distribution of wealth, the highest unemployment rate and where salaries don’t advance.
^
While DR for the moment has made some economic advances, they're shortsightedness and lack of social advances (education, unproportionate wealth distribution, oppurtinities for social advancement, etc.) they are setting themselves up for some big time problems.
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#7 - Posted 23 March 2009, 1:55 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

I appreciate your very vivid comments, and I must confess that I thought that the Jesuit
threat was more of the conspiracy theories going around, but I now realize that the Jesuits are very persistently and pro-actively participating in this macabre plan to unite the island.
Besides the Jesuits, Pellegrin Castillo the congressman related to me that they are 150
NGO"s receiving funding from abroad to accomplish this purpose. This is no small change and 150 full time NGO's are a humungous opponent to go against.
The DR government or the department of Interior and Policia could not even publish the rules for the new immigration law that was passed 4 years ago (in 2004) after 8 years of deliberation by congress. This same law that describes the "citizens in transit" and was opposed all the way to the supreme court by the NGO's until it was ruled in favor of it.
I say we are playing with fire here and just like the citizens of Azua that rose to expel the Haitians with rocks, sticks and machetes during the independence war, the patriotic Dominicans will soon forget their benevolent hospitality and patience against the illegal Haitians and incite a situation that could get out of control and cause bloodshed.

I hope it doesn't get to that point, but under the right conditions it is very possible. Just recently I read about some area in or around Santiago where the community leader coordinated with the local residents and the illegal Haitian immigrants left of their own accord.
Here in the USA immigration frequently rounds up illegals, puts them in detention centers and deports them and their is no international outcry. Mexicans have always been used to do backbreaking farm work but I haven't read any NGO's calling it 'slavery'.
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#8 - Posted 23 March 2009, 2:27 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
The professional spin doctors that are bad mouthing the Dominican Republic are using the age old race card dealing from the bottom, and we are being put in the defensive.
I remember when I was a labor negotiator part of a "grievance committee" in the US and when we faced off with management they first thing they did was accuse us of some preposterous event like coming into the offices with guns, or some other fabrication which was untrue of course, but their purpose was to "slip a mickey" and throw us off guard and put us in the defensive. And instead of saying, "that's is not true and it is not the issue being discussed anyway, so let's get back to the subject matter", and instead of
getting back to the subject matter they had us defending ourselves against their lies.
The race card is being thrown at us and will be used time and time again until the economic groups that are fomenting the Dominican-Haitian unification get their way.
We have to learn to live with it and not get in the defensive and keep to the subject matter.
BTW I have not heard if all the Santiago Haitians did leave and never returned, have you?
Edited on 3/23/2009 10:18 PM by generoso.

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#9 - Posted 23 March 2009, 2:33 PM
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
G:

Pelegrin Castillo has one tough battle ahead for himself; It's like one against the world.
Can he battle those NGO's (you allude to) who are sponsored by NWO aka United Nations, the Big Momma that all these yellow bellied cowards run to when they want something done?

Ain't nothing changed; nothing going to change!

If there is civil unrest it will be crushed. What do you think they have armed forces for?
It surely isn't to protect the country?

flashback to 2007:http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2007/3/26/23287/Dominican-defense-against-Haitian-allegations-is-weak-experts-say

The cataclysm next-door has been placed on your lap. Now, do something about it.

Si no habia suficiente para Mama Tingo y Mama Chepa; Y ahora?

Y siguen con el Señor, deme algo!
Edited on 3/23/2009 2:37 PM by ArsenioALembertJr.
Dios, Patria y Libertad.
Maranatha,
The King is coming.
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#10 - Posted 23 March 2009, 2:35 PM
Location: United States, "El Amanza GUAPOS, BIGOTS, TROLLS y SELF-PROCLAIMED DOMINICAN "PATRIOTS" De Villa Duarte"
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RE: THE SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS CAN NOT COME FROM THE DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Public opinion has to awaken to contain the Dominican-Haitian volcano that is brewing and getting ready to erupt. As economic conditions deteriorate further and the political season gets closer, more and more labor strikes and civilian disturbances will occur.
The unresolved continuous Haitian exodus and indifference by both governments will help fuel the fires of discord.
The DR and the Haitian government both conveniently do not make an effort to contain the Haitian invasion or take the necessary steps to police the border, so the situation is getting more and more flammable as time passes. The business sectors and security apparatus of both countries exploit with
impunity the obvious business advantages of cheap Haitian labor, depressing the Dominican worker's income. This together with the rising food prices are creating a desperate situation with a strong probability of civil disobedience and popular uprisings.
The international community including the USA, Canada, Brasil, France and England want the DR to act as "scapegoat" and to absorb the Haitian exodus and mass immigration,
and if we allow this there will be two failed states instead of one in the island,
as the Dominican republic will also join the ranks of the failed states in the near future.
Documentation of Haitian nationals is not our responsibility, repatriation is. An orderly and peaceful repatriation of Haitians is warranted. But it will be difficult to accomplish until better economic conditions exist in Haiti.
This is why is it our responsibility as well to make the citizens of Haiti aware, that the international community has GIVEN UP on a solution to the Haitian crisis and instead want the DR to "assimilate" the Haitian problem and accept the Haitian nationals invading our country as Dominicans.
Haitians need to understand that their survival as a nation is at stake, and they are the only ones that
need to take responsibility for the welfare of their country, not us.

A patriotic movement must be started in DR sooner rather than later, Haitians must do the same in their country, and the Dominican and Haitian diaspora must take a more proactive role.

The "volcano" has been trying to "erupt" for as long as I can remember and to this day, still nothing.

Like I've been saying ever since I joined this site, just like I feel illegal Dominicans, or Mexicans or Martians should be deported from the US, illegal Haitians should also be deported from the DR.

That said, it's my opinion it will NOT happen any time soon.

Until both Governements "hold hands", if you will, and work on the issue together, head-on, a solution will never be found.

Let's not forget something, even if the DR Government employ "100 million" guards to police the border, what are the chances those guards will not "close their eyes" when offered a bribe?.

Corruption and desperation make people do "whatever it takes" to "earn" a buck, even if that includes "closing your eyes" for a few seconds.

Btw, the "taking jobs from Dominicans" argument is also as old as I can remember.

Even some Dominicans say they didn't want those jobs in the first place......"demasiado duro y la paga es muy poca". No todos, algunos.











Edited on 3/23/2009 3:32 PM by TuPapaupa.
I Am The BOOOO!GEYMAN!!.....Hide The Kids And Stop The Dancing, Singing, Whining, Complaining and Crying....... El LEONAAAAZO De Villa Duarte No Estaba Muerto, Andaba De Parranda!. JAJAJAJA.
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