Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Haiti » Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
#1 - Posted 19 September 2009, 2:26 PM
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Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Well, when I look their language, it's the same haitian kreyol with some tiny differences...

I know that a great number of Lousiana Kreyol are french who escape the haitian revolution... so I think in their mind they are "French" ( even if it's not 100% true because, only the "elite" in Saint Domingue were speaking french, everybody else were speaking Kreyol, like the Sonthonax paper show it ).


But for the "Black", like African americans are refering to Africa as they homeland,Louisiana Kreyol should refer for Haiti for home land?
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#2 - Posted 19 September 2009, 2:48 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
Incognito previously said:

Well, when I look their language, it's the same haitian kreyol with some tiny differences...

I know that a great number of Lousiana Kreyol are french who escape the haitian revolution... so I think in their mind they are "French" ( even if it's not 100% true because, only the "elite" in Saint Domingue were speaking french, everybody else were speaking Kreyol, like the Sonthonax paper show it ).


But for the "Black", like African americans are refering to Africa as they homeland,Louisiana Kreyol should refer for Haiti for home land?

Louisiana creoles call themselves Cajuns from New Acadians or New Scotland and those guys were dispersed from Canada as driftwood after the battle of Quebec and the the French Loss on the Plains of Abraham The Cajuns came from what is now New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and were the french speakers driven out by the English
You are entering the Ultra Spin Zone...
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#3 - Posted 19 September 2009, 2:50 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
Incognito previously said:

Well, when I look their language, it's the same haitian kreyol with some tiny differences...

I know that a great number of Lousiana Kreyol are french who escape the haitian revolution... so I think in their mind they are "French" ( even if it's not 100% true because, only the "elite" in Saint Domingue were speaking french, everybody else were speaking Kreyol, like the Sonthonax paper show it ).


But for the "Black", like African americans are refering to Africa as they homeland,Louisiana Kreyol should refer for Haiti for home land?



One must keep in mind that the "Haitians",if you want to call them that, that made it to Louisiana in the era you're referring to were the very elites you speak, albeit some were accompanied by there slaves. French as spoken in Haiti back then, though, must have had an influence on the language in Louisiana regardless.
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#4 - Posted 19 September 2009, 3:01 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
EnricoRizzo previously said:

Quote:
Incognito previously said:

Well, when I look their language, it's the same haitian kreyol with some tiny differences...

I know that a great number of Lousiana Kreyol are french who escape the haitian revolution... so I think in their mind they are "French" ( even if it's not 100% true because, only the "elite" in Saint Domingue were speaking french, everybody else were speaking Kreyol, like the Sonthonax paper show it ).


But for the "Black", like African americans are refering to Africa as they homeland,Louisiana Kreyol should refer for Haiti for home land?

Louisiana creoles call themselves Cajuns from New Acadians or New Scotland and those guys were dispersed from Canada as driftwood after the battle of Quebec and the the French Loss on the Plains of Abraham The Cajuns came from what is now New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and were the french speakers driven out by the English

Exactly but those two cultures are very different. the " Batailles des plaines d'Abraham" took place in1764 if I remember.

Cajuns speak french like Acadians even 2 century after...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpY-SKIjReI

Zachary richard (Cajun)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FNtFELn5fw

Wendell Roach ( Acadien)

But my point is that say that Lousiana Kreyol are Cajun is not true too... Cajun are speaking french...

Lousiana Kreyol... Creole.
Edited on 9/19/2009 3:08 PM by Incognito.
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#5 - Posted 19 September 2009, 3:12 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
1. A person of European descent born in the West Indies or Spanish America.
2.
a. A person descended from or culturally related to the original French settlers of the southern United States, especially Louisiana.
b. The French dialect spoken by these people.
3. A person descended from or culturally related to the Spanish and Portuguese settlers of the Gulf States.
4. often creole A person of mixed Black and European ancestry who speaks a creolized language, especially one based on French or Spanish.
5. A Black slave born in the Americas as opposed to one brought from Africa.
6. creole A creolized language.
7. Haitian Creole.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Creoles.
2. creole Cooked with a spicy sauce containing tomatoes, onions, and peppers: shrimp creole; creole cuisine.
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#6 - Posted 19 September 2009, 3:16 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
Incognito previously said:

Well, when I look their language, it's the same haitian kreyol with some tiny differences...

I know that a great number of Lousiana Kreyol are french who escape the haitian revolution... so I think in their mind they are "French" ( even if it's not 100% true because, only the "elite" in Saint Domingue were speaking french, everybody else were speaking Kreyol, like the Sonthonax paper show it ).


But for the "Black", like African americans are refering to Africa as they homeland,Louisiana Kreyol should refer for Haiti for home land?



One must keep in mind that the "Haitians",if you want to call them that, that made it to Louisiana in the era you're referring to were the very elites you speak, albeit some were accompanied by there slaves. French as spoken in Haiti back then, though, must have had an influence on the language in Louisiana regardless.


Say that french was speak hardly in Haiti is a big lie..

Here is the Decree abolishing slavery in the North of Saint-Domingue (1793) I dont know but slave were not able to read... If this was for french why they didnt just writte it in French ?

Nous, LEGER FELICITÉ SONTHONAX. Commissaire Civil que Nation Française voyé dans pays-ci, pour metté l’ordre & la tranquilité tout-par-tout.


Toute mondle vini dans monde pour io rétés libes et égal entre io: a-vlà. citoyens. vérité qui sorti en France. Li temps pour que io piblié fi dans toute pavs la République Français, pour toute monde conné.
Jordi, citoyens, que zautes gagné ça zautes té mandé, gny a point raison encore pour nègues fait la guerre contre Blancs et contre milates ; io doit donc rentrer chacun la case à io pour fait travail à io, parce que gny a point liberté sans travail ; et qu'en France, outi toute monde libe, toute monde travail en payant, comme ça va y est dans pays-ci.
Il doit songer, sur-tout que toute Blancs qui encore dans pays-ci, c'est sais à io, c'est; frères à io, parce que toutes mauvais Blancs partis avec Galbaud ; io doit sanger aussi que c'est Milates ave Nègues libes, qui premiers metté zarmes dans main à io, pour défendre ça io hélé Droit de l'homme, que Galbaud qui té vini pour roi, té vlé empêché io gagné; io doit songer encore que Pagnole, qui zamis à roi avec io, parce que si Pagnole té vlé nègues libes, io té doit commencer par quin, à io, et io pas té séré acheté nègues dans main à Jean-François et Biassou comme io après fait tous les jours.


Rouvri donc zieux à zautes, Citoyens, et guété comme Pagnole après trompé zautes. Na pas io qui té livré Ogé pour fait Ji mourir, parce que li té mandé trois jours par semaine pour nègues? Jordi-là, zautes blié tout ça Ogé té fait pour bonheur à zautes ; et au lieu zautes songé pour venger la mort à li, zautes après vouté toute mauvais conseils Pagnole après ba zautes.
Li donc temps, Citoyens, pour moi parlé zautes la vérité : gnia point roi encore ; qui la peine donc zautes après fait nous la guerre. C'est roi qui fait zesclaves, c'est République Français qui ba zautes libes.
Malheureux qui zautes yest ; zautes pas songé que si la France té prend ion roi, zautes ta rété dans l'esclavage toute la vie, et que mauvais blancs là io qui dans Pagnole, et qui fait bon valete côté zautes, séré premier qui la tourné metté fouette dans corps à zautes encore.
Après toute monde conné que io libe et égal en droits douvant bon Dieu tant comme douvant monde, io fait ion l'assemblée, prope jour la Saint-Louis, outi toute monde té allé, Blancs, Mllates et Nègues, pour io té conné façon pensé à io, là fus liberté générale. Quand io té fini parlé, et que io toute té d'accord pour dire OUI, alors io écrire ion papier, que io hélé pétition, outi toute monde signé, pour mandé. Comissaire Civil liberté générale pour toute zesclaves, et io nommé député pour porté li baille Commissaire Civil, qui approuvé papier là, el qui prooncé, par proclamation cila-là, qui gnia point zesclaves encore.
Ainsi, d'après pouvoirs que République Français baille à Commissaire Civil, par décret là que Convention Nationale té fait dans mois mars de l'année cila-là, fi ordonné ça qui va suive pour la province du Nord.




ARTICLE PREMIER Déclaration droit de l’homme & du citoyen va imprimé. La minicipalité va piblié li & affiché li dans toute ville & dans toute bourg; & Commandant militaire va fait la même chose dans toute camp & poste à io.
II. Toute nègues & milates, qui zesclaves encore, nou déclaré io toute libe. Io gagné même droit que toute les autres citoyens Français; mais, io va suivre zordonnance que nous va fait.
III. Toute cila io qui té zesclaves & que libes jordi, io va allé à io & pitite outi la minicipalité qui dans paroisse à io. Minicipalité là va ba io ion billette citoyen Français, que Commissaire Civil déjà signé.
IV. C’est nou qui va dire tout ça billette là io doit parlé, & l’Ordonnateur Civil va voyé io baille à toute minicipalité.
V. Toute cila qui servi valete ou bin servante, io va payé io suivan marché io va fait avec monde io doit servir. Marché là, li pour trois mois; après io va fait l’autre pour trois mois encore, si io vlé.
VI. Toute nourrice ou bin valete aque servante qui servi vieu monde malade quicapable marché, Commissaire Civil défendre que io quitté io; mais io va payé io ion portiguaise par mois pour nourrice, & quatre gourdes par mois pour valette aque servante.
VII. Monde qui gagné domestique, va payé io tous les trois mois.
VIII. Toute cila qui va besoin zouvriers, va rangé aqué yo pour zouvrages io gagnépour fait, & pour paiement à io.
IX. Toute nègues qui rété dans bitasyon, io va continué rété là, & io va travail dans place.
X. Toute guerrier qui enrôlé dans cas camp ou bin dans la ville, io capable allé travailsus bitasyon, mais pour ça io va bligé mandé ion congé à capitaine à io, ou bin à Commissaire civil & io metté ion monde bonne volonté pour remplacer io.
XI. Toute nègres qui zesclaves & qui travaille sus bitasyon, io va engagé pour ion an;pendant toute l’année là io va pas lé capable changé bitation sans io prend permission dans main à juge de paix, comme li va parlé titalor.
XII. Revenue à chaque bitation va partagé en trois parts, quand toute droit va payé à la République.
Premier part li va pour maite bitation. La dexième part pour acheté bèfe, miléte, cabrouete, & tout ça qui faut pour travail. Troisième part, c’est pour séparer entre toute monde qui travaille dans bitation là.
XIII. Part là que maite la terre va prend pour acheté zoutis & zanimaux, va servi pour payé zouvriers, pour commandé cazes, payé chirurgien, colome, & tout ça qui faut pour l’hopital.
XIV. Dans part revenu qui rété pour nègres qui travail terre, Commandor, que io va hélé astor conducteur, va gagné trois parts; ou bin quand les autres nègres yon gourde, conducteur là va gagner trois gourdes.
XV. Deuxième conducteur, avec sucrier digotier io va gagné deux parts, ou bin quand les autes négues gagné yon gourde, yo va gagné deux.
XVI. Toutes les autes négues qui travail la terre, & que yo va hélé astor cultivateur; tout cila yo gagné déjà quinze ans ou qui passé quinze ans, yo va gagné yon part dans revenu.
XVII. Toute néguesse qui gagné quinze ans ou qui passé quinze ans, yo va gagné deux tiers de part, ou bin quand les autes négues gagné trois gourdes, femme la yo va gagné deux.
XVIII. Jeune monde depuis dix ans jouque quinze ans, va gagné demi part, ou binquand les autes négues va gagné ion gourde, jeune monde là io va gagné deux gourdins,
XIX. Toute monde va gagné place à io pour planter vives pour io; io va séparé places là io par famille, suivant que gni en a monde dans chaque famille.
XX. Toute femme qui gagné petite qui pas encore gagné dix ans, io va gagné ion par entier dans revenu, mais io même va nourrir & billé petit à io.
XXI. Pitit monde, depuis dix ans jouque quinze ans, io va gardé zanimaux assez, ou bin io va ramassé café ou coton, ou bin io va faire travail qui pas fort.
XXII. Vieux monde aqué malades qui pas capables travail encore, parens à io même va nourrir io, & maite bitation là va billé io & ba io remede si io bezoin.
XXIII. Quand io va séparé revenu, maite bitation là va baye part à cultivateurs endenrées, si li vlé; ou bin en argent si li vlé en payant même prix que io vende denrées tout par tout. Si li vlé payé en denrées, li va bligé charréyé par à io toute à l’embarcadaire qui pis proche bitation là.
Proclamation cila-là va imprimé et affiché par tout.
Yo va proclamé Ii dans toutes les rues et dans toute place publique ; soit dans la ville, soit dans bourgs de la province du Nord. C'est zofficiers municipaux qui va prcoclamé li avec zécharpes à io.
Douvant io va marché grand Bonnet la Liberté, que io va porté en haut ion grand picque.
Nous baille zordes la Commission Intermédiaire, là Municipalité, aqué toutes les autes Bireaux, pour que Io écrire proclamation cila-là dans grand live à io, et pour io fait publié Ji et affiché li.
Nous Ordonné à toute Commandant militaire pour qué io baille la main pour tout monde exécuté li.


Au Cap. le 29 août 1793, J'an deux de la République Française.


Sonthonax
Et Plus bas fi écrit
Par le Commissaire civil de la République
Gault, Secrétaire adjoint de la commission civile


This is not french !!
Edited on 9/19/2009 3:17 PM by Incognito.
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#7 - Posted 19 September 2009, 3:16 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
EnricoRizzo previously said:

Louisiana creoles call themselves Cajuns from New Acadians or New Scotland and those guys were dispersed from Canada as driftwood after the battle of Quebec and the the French Loss on the Plains of Abraham The Cajuns came from what is now New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and were the french speakers driven out by the English


Exactly. The term Cajun has been used wrongfully by people in Louisiana for the exact reason you have listed above because vastly we all know where the ancestry of the existence of Louisiana relies and Canada and its history do not have much if anything at all with Louisiana. The word is used, however, only in the sense of adoptive cultural referendum.
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#8 - Posted 19 September 2009, 4:57 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
For that question to be answered, one would have to break down the french speaking population there and see which group is the one numerically superior. Or compile an encyclopedia with both versions of french (St. Domingan and Acadian) and see which of them both have influenced the language the most over there. My bet is that Acadian is the one who have been winning the score, since almost all the linguistics out there classify the St. Domingan french as "plantation french", and put it as an almost extinct language, almost on the same level as the "Jersey dutch" (Neger Holland).
Edited on 9/19/2009 4:57 PM by Lautaro.
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#9 - Posted 19 September 2009, 5:29 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

For that question to be answered, one would have to break down the french speaking population there and see which group is the one numerically superior. Or compile an encyclopedia with both versions of french (St. Domingan and Acadian) and see which of them both have influenced the language the most over there. My bet is that Acadian is the one who have been winning the score, since almost all the linguistics out there classify the St. Domingan french as "plantation french", and put it as an almost extinct language, almost on the same level as the "Jersey dutch" (Neger Holland).



Lautaro,

Do you know that Guadeloupe and Martinique are France's territory or estates which speak both French and Creole as do Haiti... Yet, their Creole is not as quite anywhere near as how the Haitian Creole is close to actual French. A frenchmen would understand the Haitian Creole before the could ever even begin to make up most words in the Guadeloupe or Maritnique version of Creole which many perceive to be more or closer to French which is not true.

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#10 - Posted 19 September 2009, 5:33 PM
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RE: Lousiana Kreyol and Haitian: Is this the same thing ?
Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

For that question to be answered, one would have to break down the french speaking population there and see which group is the one numerically superior. Or compile an encyclopedia with both versions of french (St. Domingan and Acadian) and see which of them both have influenced the language the most over there. My bet is that Acadian is the one who have been winning the score, since almost all the linguistics out there classify the St. Domingan french as "plantation french", and put it as an almost extinct language, almost on the same level as the "Jersey dutch" (Neger Holland).



Lautaro,

Do you know that Guadeloupe and Martinique are France's territory or estates which speak both French and Creole as do Haiti... Yet, their Creole is not as quite anywhere near as how the Haitian Creole is close to actual French. A frenchmen would understand the Haitian Creole before the could ever even begin to make up most words in the Guadeloupe or Maritnique version of Creole which many perceive to be more or closer to French which is not true.




I'll have to study french and make the comparison myself, cuz' that's not what my french acquaintances have told me about the issue.
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