Glim

The talk about Cuba is another topic but to answer you i have never used that term to Cuba(Cubans) my problem is with Fidel and his commie style of gov that is holding people as pretty much prisoner in their own country. Cuba is a great country with the wrong leader. When i say is not as bad i don't mean is Punta Cana either if you read the post carefully i did stated that there. If you do a search on Google in the pictures section and just put "Haiti" the first thing you see is 2 dead man laying around and people eating arroz next to them and that not true because it makes people believe that's their everyday life. Dominican Republic has come a long way to the point that the work of preserving the country and it's flora and fauna is a major attraction to many tourist. We do have a lot of work to make it a better place but we have done good as a independet country that has to figure everything out on our own.

I didn't just go there i was more like exploring and staying at somebody's house every time i was there no fancy hotel.

there are fancy hotels in haiti...in jacmel for example..there is cap lamandou..
there may not be a lot.. but there are some.

Several problems with this article..

The part highlighted..it's often overlooked or just outright ignored that the last French forces on Hispaniola were driven out by Spanish creoles, not the Haitian slaves. Check Battle of Palo Hincado.

Correct Paisano,but the gist of the article like many in afrocentric circles either completely ignores our existence or makes melds our history with Haiti's. Our arrival on this island and our history here began with the first trip made by Columbus ,while todays "Haitians" would not "arrive" for over 200 years which is why they point to 1492 as a historical fate although they were not even on the island till the mid to late 1700's.

And of course none of them even know about Palo Hincado...

Excellent thread very informative, a lot of insight into the Haitian tragedy.

I knew nothing about this battle. lesson for the day.

The Battle of Palo Hincado was the first major battle of the Spanish Reconquista of the colony of Santo Domingo, now the Dominican Republic. It was fought in the colony, on November 7, 1808, at Palo Hincado savanna, near El Seibo. A force of some 2,000 Dominican and Puerto Rican troops, led by General Juan Sánchez Ramírez, defeated a force of 600 troops of the French Army led by General Louis Ferrand.

You guys are sounding to sound like the black isrealites. shaking of the head and laughter is all you deserve

[QUOTE=ignoranceisbliss]
[QUOTE=Pepe32]
[QUOTE=cibaeño75]
[QUOTE=Pepe32]
Several problems with this article..

[QUOTE=Belly]
Let's begin with 1492. Since that year, when it was "discovered," no country in the Caribbean has suffered more pain per capita than Haiti.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]In 1492 Neither todays Haiti nor its present inhabitants existed on this island .The French arrived much later and the West African slaves that became todays Haitians arrived in the mid to late 1700's besides with an average life expectancy of little over a year (due to the most brutal of treatments) most of the slaves were new arrivals on the island when Haiti gained its independence. [/COLOR]


In the 15th century, according to Columbus, Haiti was an island paradise. Now it is an ecological disaster. In the 18th century, Haiti was the richest colony in the New World. Now it is the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]Again the use of the name Haiti is to lead unaware readers to the conclusion that todays Haitians existed on the island prior to the late 1700's which is used by many Haitians to stake a claim on the island as a whole![/COLOR]


In the early 1500s, Haiti's indigenous people, the Taino, were rendered extinct. Alien disease took its inevitable toll. But it was the Spanish obsession with gold and Columbus' brutal ways of extracting and extorting what little gold there was that sealed their fate.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]According to genetic studies these bloodlines still exist in the eastern part of the island so instead of extinction you had mxing.[/COLOR]


Soon thousands of West Africans were imported every year to fill the labor vacuum. Africans, under the lash, were put to work raising indigo and then cane sugar. So savage was the slave regime, at first under the Spanish and then under the French, that a slave's life expectancy upon reaching Haiti was only several years. Slaves didn't live long enough to assimilate "Western civilization." To this day Haiti remains essentially an African country.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]Another outright lie attempting to make the connect the slaves on the Spanish side of the island to those under the French ,when any historian knows that the two had nothing to do with the other.The author conveniently neglects to put a timeline on French arrival and their importation of slaves into their colony.[/COLOR]


In the 1790's, the Afro-Haitians revolted. In 1804, led by the slave Toussaint L'Ouverture, [B]the Africans succeeded in whupping Napolean's army and driving it off the island.[/B][COLOR=#ED1C24]The author shows his true colours by saying the Haitians "whipped" the French instead of defeating them which is common in the afrocentric fantasy history which has more to do with emotion than logic and fact.[/COLOR]


This was the world's first successful slave revolt. Ignored in our history books, it was an accomplishment as significant and as liberating as the French or U.S. revolutions.

Western civilization -- France and the other white colonial slave-holding powers -- has[COLOR=#ED1C24]have[/COLOR] yet to forgive the Afro-Haitians. Like Sandinista Nicaragua and Castro's Cuba, liberating itself was Haiti's original sin. Two centuries later the forces of counter-liberation are still relentlessly applied against it.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]To boot and afrocentric Marxist![/COLOR]


For years, few nations would recognize Haiti's independence. The United States, despite the lofty sentiments of its founding documents, did not recognize Haiti until our own slave regime crumbled in the 1860s. France, despite the ideals of its 1789 revolution, would not recognize Haiti until it paid a crushing multi-million dollar indemnity.

In the Catholic theology of my youth, we are all born -- like Haiti -- with original sin. And many of us go on to commit grievous sins of our own. These are called mortal sins. In the last dozen or so years unrepentant Haiti and President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, whom it keeps electing, has committed a number of these. This is why the so-called "international community" -- especially the United States and France -- are determined to keep Haiti in hell.

In Haiti's 1992 presidential election the U.S.-financed candidate, Marc Bazin, was pre-ordained to win. At the last minute, however, a Catholic priest preaching liberation theology entered the race. Father Aristide won the election by a 67 percent landslide.

Within eight months, a U.S.-sponsored coup toppled Aristide. The next time Aristide stood for election -- in 2000 -- he won by an even greater share of the vote. And this was an election internationally certified as fair. Aristide was, and continues to be, the choice of the vast majority of Haiti's people.

But on February 29, 2004, Aristide was again overthrown. The U.S. military abducted Aristide at gunpoint, transporting him to the Central African Republic, one of the most isolated countries on the planet.

Why does the U.S. government hate Aristide so?

For five centuries, the imperial powers have seen Haiti only as a dark, placid pool of super-cheap labor. Upon first becoming president, however, Aristide sought to raise Haiti's miserable minimum wage. A major no-no.

Aristide kept up his offensive behavior. In 1994 when he returned from exile and resumed his presidency, he abolished Haiti's brutish military.

And, finally, consider this brazen deed. During his second term, Aristide sued France for reimbursement of the aforementioned indemnity. Aristide presented France with a bill -- corrected for inflation and with 5 percent interest compounded. The bill, still outstanding, totals $21 billion.

For the time being, President Aristide lives in South Africa. Aristide's party, Lavalas, has once again been forced underground. Even so, it insists there can be no elections in Haiti without the return of its president and the democratic constitutional order he embodies.

[COLOR=#ED1C24]Finally a defence of the murderous and hateful Aristide to top it off.[/COLOR]

Source: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0720-31.htm
[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]


The part highlighted..it's often overlooked or just outright ignored that the last French forces on Hispaniola were driven out by Spanish creoles, not the Haitian slaves. Check Battle of Palo Hincado.
[/QUOTE]
Correct Paisano,but the gist of the article like many in afrocentric circles either completely ignores our existence or makes melds our history with Haiti's. [COLOR=#ED1C24]Our arrival[/COLOR] on this island and [COLOR=#ED1C24]our history [/COLOR]here began with the first trip made by Columbus ,while todays "Haitians" would not "arrive" for over 200 years which is why they point to 1492 as a historical fate although they were not even on the island till the mid to late 1700's.

And of course none of them even know about Palo Hincado...

[/QUOTE]


I knew nothing about this battle. lesson for the day.

The Battle of Palo Hincado was the first major battle of the Spanish Reconquista of the colony of Santo Domingo, now the Dominican Republic. It was fought in the colony, on November 7, 1808, at Palo Hincado savanna, near El Seibo. A force of some 2,000 Dominican and Puerto Rican troops, led by General Juan Sánchez Ramírez, defeated a force of 600 troops of the French Army led by General Louis Ferrand.

[B][COLOR=#ED1C24]You guys are sounding to sound like the black isrealites. shaking of the head and laughter is all you deserve[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
[/B]



[COLOR=#ED1C24][COLOR=#ED1C24]An intelligent person would state what they disagree with and then provide counter arguments ,but as usual the pot calling the kettle black who believes in great "conspiracies" touted by raving lunatics does not have the wherewithal to counter the arguments . This "ignorance" is a prime example of why Haiti is where it is.This idiocy reminds me of the muslims who consider Moses,Abraham and Isaac to be muslims even though the islamic cult did not start until the 700's!.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Pepe32]
[QUOTE=ignoranceisbliss]
[QUOTE=Pepe32]
[QUOTE=cibaeño75]
[QUOTE=Pepe32]
Several problems with this article..

[QUOTE=Belly]
Let's begin with 1492. Since that year, when it was "discovered," no country in the Caribbean has suffered more pain per capita than Haiti.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]In 1492 Neither todays Haiti nor its present inhabitants existed on this island .The French arrived much later and the West African slaves that became todays Haitians arrived in the mid to late 1700's besides with an average life expectancy of little over a year (due to the most brutal of treatments) most of the slaves were new arrivals on the island when Haiti gained its independence. [/COLOR]


In the 15th century, according to Columbus, Haiti was an island paradise. Now it is an ecological disaster. In the 18th century, Haiti was the richest colony in the New World. Now it is the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]Again the use of the name Haiti is to lead unaware readers to the conclusion that todays Haitians existed on the island prior to the late 1700's which is used by many Haitians to stake a claim on the island as a whole![/COLOR]


In the early 1500s, Haiti's indigenous people, the Taino, were rendered extinct. Alien disease took its inevitable toll. But it was the Spanish obsession with gold and Columbus' brutal ways of extracting and extorting what little gold there was that sealed their fate.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]According to genetic studies these bloodlines still exist in the eastern part of the island so instead of extinction you had mxing.[/COLOR]


Soon thousands of West Africans were imported every year to fill the labor vacuum. Africans, under the lash, were put to work raising indigo and then cane sugar. So savage was the slave regime, at first under the Spanish and then under the French, that a slave's life expectancy upon reaching Haiti was only several years. Slaves didn't live long enough to assimilate "Western civilization." To this day Haiti remains essentially an African country.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]Another outright lie attempting to make the connect the slaves on the Spanish side of the island to those under the French ,when any historian knows that the two had nothing to do with the other.The author conveniently neglects to put a timeline on French arrival and their importation of slaves into their colony.[/COLOR]


In the 1790's, the Afro-Haitians revolted. In 1804, led by the slave Toussaint L'Ouverture, [B]the Africans succeeded in whupping Napolean's army and driving it off the island.[/B][COLOR=#ED1C24]The author shows his true colours by saying the Haitians "whipped" the French instead of defeating them which is common in the afrocentric fantasy history which has more to do with emotion than logic and fact.[/COLOR]


This was the world's first successful slave revolt. Ignored in our history books, it was an accomplishment as significant and as liberating as the French or U.S. revolutions.

Western civilization -- France and the other white colonial slave-holding powers -- has[COLOR=#ED1C24]have[/COLOR] yet to forgive the Afro-Haitians. Like Sandinista Nicaragua and Castro's Cuba, liberating itself was Haiti's original sin. Two centuries later the forces of counter-liberation are still relentlessly applied against it.
[COLOR=#ED1C24]To boot and afrocentric Marxist![/COLOR]


For years, few nations would recognize Haiti's independence. The United States, despite the lofty sentiments of its founding documents, did not recognize Haiti until our own slave regime crumbled in the 1860s. France, despite the ideals of its 1789 revolution, would not recognize Haiti until it paid a crushing multi-million dollar indemnity.

In the Catholic theology of my youth, we are all born -- like Haiti -- with original sin. And many of us go on to commit grievous sins of our own. These are called mortal sins. In the last dozen or so years unrepentant Haiti and President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, whom it keeps electing, has committed a number of these. This is why the so-called "international community" -- especially the United States and France -- are determined to keep Haiti in hell.

In Haiti's 1992 presidential election the U.S.-financed candidate, Marc Bazin, was pre-ordained to win. At the last minute, however, a Catholic priest preaching liberation theology entered the race. Father Aristide won the election by a 67 percent landslide.

Within eight months, a U.S.-sponsored coup toppled Aristide. The next time Aristide stood for election -- in 2000 -- he won by an even greater share of the vote. And this was an election internationally certified as fair. Aristide was, and continues to be, the choice of the vast majority of Haiti's people.

But on February 29, 2004, Aristide was again overthrown. The U.S. military abducted Aristide at gunpoint, transporting him to the Central African Republic, one of the most isolated countries on the planet.

Why does the U.S. government hate Aristide so?

For five centuries, the imperial powers have seen Haiti only as a dark, placid pool of super-cheap labor. Upon first becoming president, however, Aristide sought to raise Haiti's miserable minimum wage. A major no-no.

Aristide kept up his offensive behavior. In 1994 when he returned from exile and resumed his presidency, he abolished Haiti's brutish military.

And, finally, consider this brazen deed. During his second term, Aristide sued France for reimbursement of the aforementioned indemnity. Aristide presented France with a bill -- corrected for inflation and with 5 percent interest compounded. The bill, still outstanding, totals $21 billion.

For the time being, President Aristide lives in South Africa. Aristide's party, Lavalas, has once again been forced underground. Even so, it insists there can be no elections in Haiti without the return of its president and the democratic constitutional order he embodies.

[COLOR=#ED1C24]Finally a defence of the murderous and hateful Aristide to top it off.[/COLOR]

Source: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0720-31.htm
[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]


The part highlighted..it's often overlooked or just outright ignored that the last French forces on Hispaniola were driven out by Spanish creoles, not the Haitian slaves. Check Battle of Palo Hincado.
[/QUOTE]
Correct Paisano,but the gist of the article like many in afrocentric circles either completely ignores our existence or makes melds our history with Haiti's. [COLOR=#ED1C24]Our arrival[/COLOR] on this island and [COLOR=#ED1C24]our history [/COLOR]here began with the first trip made by Columbus ,while todays "Haitians" would not "arrive" for over 200 years which is why they point to 1492 as a historical fate although they were not even on the island till the mid to late 1700's.

And of course none of them even know about Palo Hincado...

[/QUOTE]


I knew nothing about this battle. lesson for the day.

The Battle of Palo Hincado was the first major battle of the Spanish Reconquista of the colony of Santo Domingo, now the Dominican Republic. It was fought in the colony, on November 7, 1808, at Palo Hincado savanna, near El Seibo. A force of some 2,000 Dominican and Puerto Rican troops, led by General Juan Sánchez Ramírez, defeated a force of 600 troops of the French Army led by General Louis Ferrand.

[B][COLOR=#ED1C24]You guys are sounding to sound like the black isrealites. shaking of the head and laughter is all you deserve[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
[/B]



[COLOR=#ED1C24][COLOR=#ED1C24]An intelligent person would state what they disagree with and then provide counter arguments ,but as usual the pot calling the kettle black who believes in great "conspiracies" touted by raving lunatics does not have the wherewithal to counter the arguments . This "ignorance" is a prime example of why Haiti is where it is.This idiocy reminds me of the muslims who consider Moses,Abraham and Isaac to be muslims even though the islamic cult did not start(ed) until the 700's!.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

Anyway, what is your point? You use the same quote over and over again. (This "ignorance" is a prime example of why Haiti is where it is). Is that a valid argument/point "Why the U.S. and France Hate Haiti"?