Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Haiti » Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
#1 - Posted 17 January 2011, 11:10 AM
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Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
http://www.haitilibre.com/en/news-2008-haiti-social-risk-of-dominican-haitian-clashes-on-january-3.html

"Today, we are invaded by Haitians, they are responsible for most thefts and assaults committed in our neighborhoods, they throw garbage in the streets they live in boarding houses with no bathrooms and defecate in plastic bags that they throw them in front of houses, schools, businesses and other places, we are desperate" reported José Francisco Consuegra President of the Council of district of La Mina. Recalling that a survey conducted by community groups in San Jose and La Mina estimated between 1.800 to 2.700 the population of undocumented Haitian living in these neighborhoods, without counting another 400 which are arrived last Saturday, said Consuegra.

Residents of neighborhoods of San Jose, Mina and Cristo Rey in the south of Santiago (North) in Dominican Republic, explained in the Dominican press, that if on January 3, 2011 the Directorate General of Immigration did not take steps to arrest and repatriate illegal Haitian population living in their neighborhoods, the population will expel them by force.

José Francisco Consuegra has insisted that the attitude of people is not racist or discriminatory, but now he finds that the Haitians outnumber Dominicans in their neighborhoods.

An officer of the immigration authorities, under cover of anonymity, acknowledged that its services actually received dozens of complaints each day from these communities concerning crime or incivility on Haitians, recalling that its services can not follow all these complaints its office being mobilized on the prevention and control of illegal border crossings.

The same source said that what the people intended to do was dangerous and that immigration services could not tolerate it, not excluding taking steps to protect Haitians facing deportation in order avoid unwanted confrontations.

For their part, residents of San Jose and La Mina complained that some of undocumented Haitian carry knives and threatened the Dominicans to use them if people tried to evict them. However before the risk of confrontation and threats of Dominicans, hundreds of Haitians have left "voluntarily..." these areas has indicated José Francisco Consuegra, but It remains more than 2,000... Reiterating the determination of the population, to deport Haitians on January 3 if they are still there "They outnumber us, threaten us and challenge us, but we will win..." said Consuegra.
Los enemigos de la Patria, por consiguiente nuestros, están todos muy acordes en estas ideas; destruir la nacionalidad aunque para ello sea preciso aniquilar a la Nación entera

si vis pacem para bellum
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#2 - Posted 17 January 2011, 8:06 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
A clear manifestation of frustration, pure and simple frustration. But pent up frustration is extremely dangerous where a release valve is imminent and must be promptly implemented, otherwise it could easily and quickly escalate into something much worse then just a sporadically explosive conflict.

If backed up pressure is not given an outlet to dissipate, no doubt and surely a tragic outcome is only to be expected, where at the very least there will be no winners, only losers on both sides of the court.
Edited on 1/17/2011 8:19 PM by guillermone.
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#3 - Posted 17 January 2011, 9:53 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3

Conflict is an inevitable in any invasion. The history of mankind has taught of us that Humans will fight over resources with one another. Therefore, due to this reason, war is inevitable among humans. An individual is not capable of starting a war but a collective group of people with nothing to lose such as those present in the Dominican Republic can most definitely be very capable.

I am not trying to predict a doomsday scenario, it's just that I understand that we do not live in the land of milk and honey. I just hope that I will never see the day when all hell breaks loose.
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#4 - Posted 17 January 2011, 9:55 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
guillermone previously said:

A clear manifestation of frustration, pure and simple frustration. But pent up frustration is extremely dangerous where a release valve is imminent and must be promptly implemented, otherwise it could easily and quickly escalate into something much worse then just a sporadically explosive conflict.

If backed up pressure is not given an outlet to dissipate, no doubt and surely a tragic outcome is only to be expected, where at the very least there will be no winners, only losers on both sides of the court.


Well said!
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#5 - Posted 25 January 2011, 9:32 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
yumnuk3 previously said:


Conflict is an inevitable in any invasion. The history of mankind has taught of us that Humans will fight over resources with one another. Therefore, due to this reason, war is inevitable among humans. An individual is not capable of starting a war but a collective group of people with nothing to lose such as those present in the Dominican Republic can most definitely be very capable.

I am not trying to predict a doomsday scenario, it's just that I understand that we do not live in the land of milk and honey. I just hope that I will never see the day when all hell breaks loose.


Sometimes, "hell has to break loose" for changes to be made. The officials in both countries got their freaking heads in the sand and need a wake-up call.

I don't want to sound callous but I will not be politically-correct. Clashes are imminent.

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#6 - Posted 25 January 2011, 10:49 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
kmnupe previously said:

Quote:
yumnuk3 previously said:


Conflict is an inevitable in any invasion. The history of mankind has taught of us that Humans will fight over resources with one another. Therefore, due to this reason, war is inevitable among humans. An individual is not capable of starting a war but a collective group of people with nothing to lose such as those present in the Dominican Republic can most definitely be very capable.

I am not trying to predict a doomsday scenario, it's just that I understand that we do not live in the land of milk and honey. I just hope that I will never see the day when all hell breaks loose.


Sometimes, "hell has to break loose" for changes to be made. The officials in both countries got their freaking heads in the sand and need a wake-up call.

I don't want to sound callous but I will not be politically-correct. Clashes are imminent.


It is perfectly OK, let hell breaks loose. You guys are a bunch of simple morons, it is the work of god to unite the island by any means necessary. Many lives will be lost, who cares! If you have any complaints, talk to the creator, don't blame me. I am just a visionary, it has been written. Or better yet, ask the spaniards why they screw up the caribes and tainos paradise.
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#7 - Posted 25 January 2011, 11:36 PM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
There will likely always be contentions between the Dominican Republic and Haiti.....and unfortunate and counter-productive as it is. Sometimes that contention is simply more pronounced depending on the applicable circumstances. The Governments have to make the right moves and not waste much time doing so, because civilians will act solely on emotion and not logic. And when you through fear into the equation things only get worse. But when did being outnumbered become automatically equated with some imminent threat?? Dominicans outnumber Whites and Blacks in Washington Heights...who cares?? Mexicans outnumber a lot of groups in Arizona...who cares?? Cubans outnumber outnumber a lot of people in Miami.....who cares?? Chinese outnumber EVERYBODY on the world scale...who cares?? To me it seems the reason Haitians becoming the majority is such a 'frightening situation' is because of fear, and that fear at least in some respects is not founded on anything substantial. The Haitians that DO make it to the Dominican Republic could care less about starting some 'revolution', all they want is food, clothing and shelter. They are not some military trained, combat-sophisticated troop looking to exploit the weaknesses of the Dominican Government.......relax its really not that serious. Even WITH their numbers, how many Haitians are attacking Dominicans with the intent to kill?? I can guarantee you the crimes they are committing (stealing, robbing, etc) have more to do with them trying to survive than kill and take over. The ones that are murdering and raping are criminals, the same criminals they were in Haiti, but they do NOT represent the overall reflection of the Haitian intention in the Dominican Republic. Right its just about survival. They are no more concerned with taking over in the Dominican Republic, than Dominicans are concerned with taking over in New York.
Edited on 1/25/2011 11:43 PM by BernardJeanPierre.
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#8 - Posted 26 January 2011, 1:03 AM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
kmnupe previously said:

Quote:
yumnuk3 previously said:


Conflict is an inevitable in any invasion. The history of mankind has taught of us that Humans will fight over resources with one another. Therefore, due to this reason, war is inevitable among humans. An individual is not capable of starting a war but a collective group of people with nothing to lose such as those present in the Dominican Republic can most definitely be very capable.

I am not trying to predict a doomsday scenario, it's just that I understand that we do not live in the land of milk and honey. I just hope that I will never see the day when all hell breaks loose.


Sometimes, "hell has to break loose" for changes to be made. The officials in both countries got their freaking heads in the sand and need a wake-up call.

I don't want to sound callous but I will not be politically-correct. Clashes are imminent.


As is usual kmnupe you are correct .Ideally they would lynch certain elites in the respective countries but that probably won't happen.
Los enemigos de la Patria, por consiguiente nuestros, están todos muy acordes en estas ideas; destruir la nacionalidad aunque para ello sea preciso aniquilar a la Nación entera

si vis pacem para bellum
Post IP/Country: 173.52.73.1* / US
#9 - Posted 26 January 2011, 1:10 AM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
BernardJeanPierre previously said:

There will likely always be contentions between the Dominican Republic and Haiti.....and unfortunate and counter-productive as it is. Sometimes that contention is simply more pronounced depending on the applicable circumstances. The Governments have to make the right moves and not waste much time doing so, because civilians will act solely on emotion and not logic. And when you through fear into the equation things only get worse. But when did being outnumbered become automatically equated with some imminent threat?? Dominicans outnumber Whites and Blacks in Washington Heights...who cares?? Mexicans outnumber a lot of groups in Arizona...who cares?? Cubans outnumber outnumber a lot of people in Miami.....who cares?? Chinese outnumber EVERYBODY on the world scale...who cares?? To me it seems the reason Haitians becoming the majority is such a 'frightening situation' is because of fear, and that fear at least in some respects is not founded on anything substantial. The Haitians that DO make it to the Dominican Republic could care less about starting some 'revolution', all they want is food, clothing and shelter. They are not some military trained, combat-sophisticated troop looking to exploit the weaknesses of the Dominican Government.......relax its really not that serious. Even WITH their numbers, how many Haitians are attacking Dominicans with the intent to kill?? I can guarantee you the crimes they are committing (stealing, robbing, etc) have more to do with them trying to survive than kill and take over. The ones that are murdering and raping are criminals, the same criminals they were in Haiti, but they do NOT represent the overall reflection of the Haitian intention in the Dominican Republic. Right its just about survival. They are no more concerned with taking over in the Dominican Republic, than Dominicans are concerned with taking over in New York.



BJP ,if you are going to draw comparisons at least compare apples to apples....

Miami, Arizona and the "world" are not sovereign nations....name one COUNTRY where a foreign group is present in numbers anywhere near to the Haitian presence in DR and you will usually find a war,ethnic cleansing and clashes,you live in a fantasyland but in real life even those areas you mention feel tension ,ESPECIALLY Arizona or haven't you heard...

Now granted these people crossing over are not ground troops ,but given the history ,the proximity and the animosity if the Haitians start to number enough people you can be sure they will not stand idly by.
Los enemigos de la Patria, por consiguiente nuestros, están todos muy acordes en estas ideas; destruir la nacionalidad aunque para ello sea preciso aniquilar a la Nación entera

si vis pacem para bellum
Post IP/Country: 173.52.73.1* / US
#10 - Posted 26 January 2011, 1:35 AM
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RE: Risk of Dominican-Haitian clashes on January 3
Quote:
Pepe32 previously said:

Quote:
BernardJeanPierre previously said:

There will likely always be contentions between the Dominican Republic and Haiti.....and unfortunate and counter-productive as it is. Sometimes that contention is simply more pronounced depending on the applicable circumstances. The Governments have to make the right moves and not waste much time doing so, because civilians will act solely on emotion and not logic. And when you through fear into the equation things only get worse. But when did being outnumbered become automatically equated with some imminent threat?? Dominicans outnumber Whites and Blacks in Washington Heights...who cares?? Mexicans outnumber a lot of groups in Arizona...who cares?? Cubans outnumber outnumber a lot of people in Miami.....who cares?? Chinese outnumber EVERYBODY on the world scale...who cares?? To me it seems the reason Haitians becoming the majority is such a 'frightening situation' is because of fear, and that fear at least in some respects is not founded on anything substantial. The Haitians that DO make it to the Dominican Republic could care less about starting some 'revolution', all they want is food, clothing and shelter. They are not some military trained, combat-sophisticated troop looking to exploit the weaknesses of the Dominican Government.......relax its really not that serious. Even WITH their numbers, how many Haitians are attacking Dominicans with the intent to kill?? I can guarantee you the crimes they are committing (stealing, robbing, etc) have more to do with them trying to survive than kill and take over. The ones that are murdering and raping are criminals, the same criminals they were in Haiti, but they do NOT represent the overall reflection of the Haitian intention in the Dominican Republic. Right its just about survival. They are no more concerned with taking over in the Dominican Republic, than Dominicans are concerned with taking over in New York.



BJP ,if you are going to draw comparisons at least compare apples to apples....

Miami, Arizona and the "world" are not sovereign nations....name one COUNTRY where a foreign group is present in numbers anywhere near to the Haitian presence in DR and you will usually find a war,ethnic cleansing and clashes,you live in a fantasyland but in real life even those areas you mention feel tension ,ESPECIALLY Arizona or haven't you heard...

Now granted these people crossing over are not ground troops ,but given the history ,the proximity and the animosity if the Haitians start to number enough people you can be sure they will not stand idly by.


Ok, well let me expound a bit more, Miami and Arizona are not Countries, however the each have their own RESPECTIVE laws, which is why Arizona is ALLOWED to even consider drafting and applying a new immigration law. So because of the power each State reserves Federally it could VERY well be compared to the immigration situation in other Nations. Furthermore my point is that the Haitian presence in the Dominican Republic is considered a threat first and foremost, instead of being considered for what it is - a transplanting of people who seek better living conditions. Granted, this has much to do with the History of the Dominican Republic, but i often feel that too many people are living in the past and feeding themselves with the divisive propaganda fed to them by their respective Political leaders of old. The immigration with Mexico and the United States has caused tensions, but with the exception of a few ignorant extremist most people realize that Mexicans simply to better their situation, they are not secretly planning a usurpation of anything. And I think to have that view of anyone from the outset is counterproductive to both sides. Haitians automatically feel like they have to defend themselves, and as a result are probably more likely to behave aggressively, and Dominicans automatically feel like JUST about to be attacked, and as a result more prone to emotionally charged actions. I know its not as easy to just say 'ok I won't think that way', but at some point people have to at least be able to look BACK at their actions in retrospect and come to reasonable conclusion.
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