BernardJeanPierre previously said:



Well, if you want to come to conclusions about my posture based on what I say, then you go right ahead. But again, if you look at EVERY SINGLE ONE of my posts from day one, you see that I have not ever said, 'its ok for Haitians to be there illegally'. My arguments have ALWAYS been 1) they are there for a REASON 2) there are others including the Dominican Government is partly responsible for it, 3) and if they are to be deported or 'repatriated' then so with consistency, respect and fairness. EVERYTHING I say is based off of those basic thoughts. I have NEVER said anything disrespectful of Dominicans, Haitians nor any other cultural group. But yet the VERY same people who try to point at me, are the very ones calling Haitians this and that. Frustration?? Perhaps. But keep one thing in mind, how frustrating do you think it is for someone to see EVERY DAY people bashing Haitians and insulting them as if they are inferior, not seeing how STUPID and counter-productive that is to both Dominicans and Haitians?? I do NOT care how you or anyone else views me - Haitian, Afro-centrist, Troll, whatever. But just look at the comments of any New Article and see how people react. I try to defend Haitians in a balanced way because many other people are on some crazed 'extremist' mentality. That is not what I do or have done. When people say something out of line about Dominicans I defend them as well. But it is not MY fault that many people can not control their inclination to say disrespectful things about Haitians, right Guillermone? Perhaps if I was on a Haitian forum I would have more opportunity to defend Dominicans, but I am not on such a site.

BernardJeanPierre previously said:



With all due respect, you ability to believe a certain thing about my argument does not mean that it HAD to be one thing or another. Like I mentioned, contextually speaking, that was not even applicable to the conversation. So why would I go out of my way to make a completely NEW point, especially considering that it does not harmonize with my other comments?? But anyhow, on to your point.

As far as the Mexican border violence is concerned, that is not essentially applicable. Why? Because what we are talking about is how being out numbered is related to being threatened exactly. There IS a large Mexican population in the States, however the Drug Cartels represent a MINORITY, not the Majority. You are very correct, there is a growing concern that the violence may spill over into US soil. No argument there. However, the fear is based on the VIOLENCE that comes from the drug cartels, NOT just because of the population of Mexicans. In other words has LESS to do with Population control and MORE to do with the Violence. Again, the majority of Mexicans (much like Haitians, Dominicans, Koreans, Jamaicans are any other people that come to the US) are only looking to better their conditions, it is only the smaller minority of Drug Cartel people that are doing the beheading etc. The Israel situation may be more applicable however. But you assume that the Arabs would vote to dissolve Israel. So we are talking about something the might or COULD happen.

But, please don't think that I am simply 'out of touch' with the Dominican issue or view point. Like I mentioned before I am VERY WELL aware that there will be some ill-affects on the Dominican side. I am not saying, there are no problems. Again, if you look at the VERY FIRST thing I said on this post you can see what my point and angle was. What I am saying is that the 'fear' should not be exaggerated because Haitians are only looking to survive and better their situation, not stage a take over. If Haitians keep pouring into the Dominican Republic their will be a difference, there will be an affect on things, no doubt. But, it DOES NOT mean that it will inevitably lead to the Dominican Republic becoming the Dominican Republic of Haiti. There are a MILLION things that have to happen before that could even possibly happen. But often, many people on one side of the issue jump to the most extreme and negative outcome, skipping over a hundred other more realistic scenarios. And to me, in my opinion that is a reflection of fear.

Micaela previously said:




Are you Haitian, Jambdebois? Living out of Haiti? Self explanatory. The more farfetched solution is good, if it is provided by somebody else. What about working something in your our country, with your own effort? No, impossible. The best thing is that Dominicans solve it for you. But you are wrong, you are the one that only have to sit back and enjoy it. What a surprise that you are going nowhere, except DR! Your utmost effort would be cross the border and mix with us, and of course, become not brighter, but healthier, less hungry, thirstier, safer, etc. No wonder you want to see the glass as half full; by the way you should also advocate the benefits of eating dirt cookies.

Micaela previously said:

Yes Mr. BJP 1)They are there for a REASON. Mainly food, shelter, health care, safety; but have you ever think that we are not responsible for that reason, not should we pay for it? 2) there are others including the Dominican Government partly responsible for it. Yes, mainly Haitians. Their authorities and elite that don’t care about their people and the Haitians themselves that do not have the courage to change that and rather run for any place they can. 3) they should be deported or 'repatriated'. Yes, also, but why not with the same consistency, respect and fairness that they come to our country, trying to force us to bear with the consequences of their country failure to take care of their problems.

Now, why so frustrated with Dominicans, bashing Haitians and insulting them as if they were inferior, but not totally frustrated with Haitians authorities and elite that deny their own people the right to food, clean water, health, shelter, safety and human dignity, from a name to a nationality and a decent life in their own country? As a matter of fact, the poor Haitians in DR are in a far better situation than the ones in Haiti, regarding work, food, clean water, health care, basic services. Would not it be more balance to defend Haitians from their own people than from Dominicans, taking into consideration that only about 2 millions “suffer” the better above explained situation at our hands, compared to at least 9 millions suffering, really suffering, at the hands of their own brothers in their own country?

I assure you that if you were Dominican, you would certainly see a problem with 2 millions of Haitians, and more coming, many sick, illiterate and unskilled, sharing our limited resources and making the life of the poorest Dominican a lot more difficult and of course, with those illegal immigrants committing crimes in their struggle to 'survive' in our country..

BernardJeanPierre previously said:

@Judeo

How can they be an unusually high minority?? And you may be mixing two distinct groups also. The general 'troublemakers' are found everywhere and likely would be in the same percentage of crimes from other cultural/national groups IF the populations were similar. You might see a bit of domestic violence, street fights, dui, black market activity etc. But that is a COMPLETELY different set than the Narcos - namely people working with the Sinaloa, Zetas, or Gulf cartels (mainly). Then you have a sub-category under that of small groups made up of Narcos, and various Gangs who commit various crime for such cartels etc. But, as you know we have had Gang violence here MUCH longer than the newer 'Narco-violence'. So again, if it were mere population then we would have been seeing that same type of violence since the 80's, because many of the Latin based gangs - Sureños, Latin Kings, MS-13 also developed to be a defense mechanism in the Prisons were other Black and White gangs ALREADY existed. Narcos bring an ENTIRELY new form and level of violence because their aim is not just to kill, killing is simple to them, it means nothing. They cut heads off, dismember, use acid, torture, feed to lions etc etc etc because......its sends a MESSAGE to their rivals. So as that applies to the US population, it is still aimed AT other Narcos and not just US citizens in general. If they get kidnapped or 'get in the way' etc, then they stand a chance of falling into danger. As far as the Israeli-Palestinian issue, that may be more applicable, and it some respects it makes sense.

However, I WILL say a larger population may increase the POTENTIAL for things to happen, I am not confused or in denial about that at all. But for example, you mentioned about Haitians getting voting rights etc. Lets just that in the next 5 years we have another 1 Million Haitians that make it to the Dominican Republic. As I have already mention this will cause some affects in the Dominican Republic, but again my point is that the 'threat' and 'fear' of Haitians should be kept in the right place and not allowed to grow into something larger than it should be. Again, before you can get to Z you have to reach B, C, D etc. Think about all the Haitians that are there not, who are born IN the Dominican Republic. Now exactly how many of them will be participation in the next election?? Not too many, because many of them can't even get their own documentation from the Government. How many of them will be able to set up organizations, accumulate members, disperse their agenda and do all that within the framework of the law- things necessary in order to bring about a change in Government?? Probably less than 1%, because they are simply not in a position to, nor ANYWHERE close. The Haitian Government can barely even have a stable election, so how in the world can Haitians 'take over' in the Dominican Republic when they are already there illegally?? Think about the immigration 'reform' thats going on in Mexico. The VAST majority of Mexicans who are opposed to that law can only do 2 things, talk about it amongst themselves or set up rallies. Thats it, nothing more. Now there may be people (Mexicans) who have become part of the legislative process - congressmen, governors etc etc, but again to wield any influence they have to do so in ACCORDS with the Law.

I am not saying there is NO RISK so just sit back and relax - again notice the VERY FIRST post I made - that fear at least in some respects is not founded on anything substantial. There ARE some threats and fears that are based on reasonable hatched motives. By the way, I am sorry to hear about what happened to your friend (Uncle)....I never understood the beheading thing, that is just barbaric. But what I am saying is that SO VERY often many people jump over every other possibility and land on, "danger!, agarrense su Colin, fuera con los haitianos!, van a tumbar el pais y la patria!" etc. Now I will say, the many Haitian felons and convicts that escaped during the Earthquake, now yes if anything THAT is a real threat, and any normal person would feel a bit uneasy with that because there is no way to determine who is and who isnt etc. But again there has to be some ration thought involved also. All I am saying is that its very unsettling to see how fast people go to the most negative, extreme, doomsday scenario first and then use that as the fuel for their mental posture. What about the more positive possibility of the Haitian Government stabilizing, the Aid money getting dispensed, Haitians going back TO Haiti, without the violence, without the aggression, because - That would be the ideal and MOST IMPORTANTLY, peaceful situation and THAT is all I want to see. Furthermore and perhaps more significantly - Haitians could NEVER, EVER, EVER, NEVER, JAMAS, NUNCA, NEVER take over the Dominican Republic, period! Why?? The US alone would not allow it. There is far too many US interests economically and otherwise in the Dominican Republic. But I guess its hard to see that depending on each persons perspective. In my personal opinion things have the potential to be worse because very often (as the website itself demonstrates) you have fear, hate, intolerance, superiority complexes and contentions coming from way too many directions. And that is counter productive to everybody.

BernardJeanPierre previously said:



With all due respect, you ability to believe a certain thing about my argument does not mean that it HAD to be one thing or another. Like I mentioned, contextually speaking, that was not even applicable to the conversation. So why would I go out of my way to make a completely NEW point, especially considering that it does not harmonize with my other comments?? But anyhow, on to your point.

As far as the Mexican border violence is concerned, that is not essentially applicable. Why? Because what we are talking about is how being out numbered is related to being threatened exactly. There IS a large Mexican population in the States, however the Drug Cartels represent a MINORITY, not the Majority. You are very correct, there is a growing concern that the violence may spill over into US soil. No argument there. However, the fear is based on the VIOLENCE that comes from the drug cartels, NOT just because of the population of Mexicans. In other words has LESS to do with Population control and MORE to do with the Violence. Again, the majority of Mexicans (much like Haitians, Dominicans, Koreans, Jamaicans are any other people that come to the US) are only looking to better their conditions, it is only the smaller minority of Drug Cartel people that are doing the beheading etc. The Israel situation may be more applicable however. But you assume that the Arabs would vote to dissolve Israel. So we are talking about something the might or COULD happen.

But, please don't think that I am simply 'out of touch' with the Dominican issue or view point. Like I mentioned before I am VERY WELL aware that there will be some ill-affects on the Dominican side. I am not saying, there are no problems. Again, if you look at the VERY FIRST thing I said on this post you can see what my point and angle was. What I am saying is that the 'fear' should not be exaggerated because Haitians are only looking to survive and better their situation, not stage a take over. If Haitians keep pouring into the Dominican Republic their will be a difference, there will be an affect on things, no doubt. But, it DOES NOT mean that it will inevitably lead to the Dominican Republic becoming the Dominican Republic of Haiti. There are a MILLION things that have to happen before that could even possibly happen. But often, many people on one side of the issue jump to the most extreme and negative outcome, skipping over a hundred other more realistic scenarios. And to me, in my opinion that is a reflection of fear.