Lautaro I understand your facts and logical conclusions, but I should also remind you that there were those of us who were not "mulatto" (or however that is defined to you) in appearance but still had substantial money and success, sufficient to enter the states. It maybe safe to also say that sanctions and restrictions on illegal haitians were not as strong as they are today than in the recent decades prior to the 90's. As there are some here who's legalization stems from that particular time.

But in reference to differences and changes in appearance with haitianas here and in the states, I can tell you there are other factors that tag along with socioeconomic status. Some can attribute an element as simple as the physical environment and the sun to give a difference in appearance. Working out in fields and subjecting oneself to harsh conditions deterring the health as well as the physical appearance from taking on a better and more attractive appearance, w/haitianas struggling to fend and survive for their families, all factors in as well. I think its safe to say looks fall by the wayside when you're worried about what's going to be in your tummy more so than on your face.

In the biological aspect of the whole the scheme of things, the European-Westernized appearance will never falter in its influence around the world. Science has said these attributes are some of the most sexually appealing by biological standards, therefore exaggerated and over-exemplified in socities media. This leads to PeRod's determined entreatment for me to post pictures of "real" haitian women and not just what society decides to put in front of the camara of a haitian woman.

But to round up this whole topic, its important to remember that every race will always strive for their own dignity and integrity. Beauty in each races' own women has been scrutinized and also put on a pedestal among its respective members as well as its foreignors. Where there's one guy/gal shootin' it down, there's always another one celebrating it, and putting it out in the world's face to see, regardless of what is "standard".

"Science has said these attributes are some of the most sexually appealing by biological standards, therefore exaggerated and over-exemplified in socities media. "

One has to question this research. I mean, who are these scientists and what was their methodology in coming to such a conclusion. I would be very weary of their conclusions as beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it sometimes varies from place to place and from era to era.

From what I have read one of the few traits that holds up across different types of studies as a trait of beauty is facial symmetry. Most other traits are culture specific but symmetry runs deeper than culture. Unfortunately I can't point to any sources for this since I was skeptical of paying attention to allegedly objective 'science' on a subjective matter like physical beauty.

talia once again thanks for the pics and for bringing a level head to our discussions!

Let's cross our fingers and hope for it to remain that way. It'll be a mighty damn shame were this to degenerate on another pointless foodfight as the one being carried out by vacanos and tupapaupa.

PS: Congrats on your incoming parenthood, I hope that you make good to your promise of getting your child aware of his "dominicanness".

All research has to be questioned or else its not really considered science anymore, and obviously that theory has been questioned but still polarized in the media- which is what I've been referring to. Tyra Banks talks about this all the time and she was in the industry. But most media markets around the world have adopted and adapted to this sort of appearance. And you spoke of methodology- how is it that on national geographic you see two birds and a narrator talking about how the female bird is attracted to the male with his broader perch and his prominent breast. I know it sounds silly but please don't think they haven't done the same thing with humans.

Cib. everything is actually in the eye of the beholder, not just beauty, and not just from the eye (there's the ear, the tongue, and the nose), but there are commanalities and there is a prevelance in what is usually deemed beautiful. You really don't need stats. to explain this to you (and don't expect me to go digging through the internet posting endless articles of what is the European-westernized appearance and influence w/ all these sociological stats. like some others do, if any of you don't know what that is, that's your own fault and I'm pretty sure you do) put the tv on, open a magazine. Even you guys and your car shows- what do all those car-presenting bombshells have in common? Now, look maybe these are not real people's perceptions of what is beautiful but you can't help but see it everywhere. And like it or not it has made an impact- negative and positive.

Don't worry guys always out to keep the peace. Not force feed or insult. You know how it is.

Sorry pal, no one here is going to mix with Haitians, I prefer to keep myself to other Dominican Women. and the Goldin sure looks Dominican but none of the ones I see on the streets of DR do. As far as a dominican in their good sense would go would be Puerto Rican or Cuban partner but never Haitian.

Please explain where I or anyone else said anything about "mixing with Haitians." I was defending the integrity of haitian females in & out of the country. You can "mix" with whomever you want, that's none of my concern. And regardless of who you prefer no one with any ounce of compassion should post a picture of that woman with the black eye. That's degrading and disgusting.

The Haitian with the black eye shouldn't have taken it in the first place or posted it online for that matter either, but this thread was about comparing both women. I don't know if you have any hidden agenda.

Thanks for your disparaging remarks but I have no reason to develop any "hidden agendas." If there's something to be said, then its said. Maybe you're just thrown off because I'm secure enough not to come swearing and talking like an uncivil tyrant (all while still calling something out for what I believe it actually is). Some of us have gotten use to that around here. And F.Y.I. it was arkatype (un dominicano) who created that post in this forum and it was not just quoted by me but by others as well. No one stood up to say anything, regardless of nationality. So a response was posted with the picture intact to show its not something to be taken lightly. Everybody out here is going crazy over Rihanna and Chris Brown and domestic violence. Something has to be said for these things as well.

And please don't start any ill-will talk. That's not what this was made for, no drama please. I stayed in line with the agreement of posting "Haiti" related topics in this section of the forum topics. Keepin' the paz!

Yes I was thrown off because you can talk in a civilized way without swearing.