| #111 - Posted 22 April 2008, 5:57 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: April 2008 Member #: 654 Posts: 225 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Quote: jemesouviens1804 previously said: I would object to any involvement of the United states in training a potential new Haitian Army. Remember the last time the Americans trained the Haitian Army.....They used it to their advantage to surpress the population by insinuating Army Generals like Raoul Cedras to launch "coupe d'etat" and to kill his own people. I rather have nations that Haiti can trust to help train any new army. For this, I think the Brasilians would be a good candidate. America has to much influence on Haiti....We dont't need them influence any potential new military. Point well taken! I would never support unilateral American intervention anywhere in Latin America. But a coalition of nations may work in this case assuming you are talking about actual military academics who train the forces in their own countries and not career generals and political operatives in disguise. Edited on 4/22/2008 5:57 PM by muchacho. |
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| #112 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:06 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 1129 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Why even have a military at all with their oversized budgets and useless generals? A decent, well-trained, professionalized police force and a coast guard would be more than adequate. Same goes for DR. |
| #113 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:18 PM | |
Location: United States, Spring Valley, NY Join date: December 2007 Member #: 142 Posts: 433 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Precisely. j'ai vu J'ai participe Je me souvien - 1804 |
| #114 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:30 PM | |
Location: United States, Spring Valley, NY Join date: December 2007 Member #: 142 Posts: 433 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Why even have a military at all with their oversized budgets and useless generals? A decent, well-trained, professionalized police force and a coast guard would be more than adequate. Same goes for DR. You have a point but there are certain things that an Army can do that a police force would be incapable of doing. Enforcement of borders is a job for the army, and I'm pretty sure you know that Haiti has a problem with this. Combating drug trade is also a job for the army and yet again Haiti suffers from this. Futhermore you must understand that before there was a Haiti, there was a Haitian army. Most of Haiti's leaders was in the military. Just so you know, my grandfather was a General in the Haitian Army. j'ai vu J'ai participe Je me souvien - 1804 |
| #115 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:49 PM | |
Location: United States, Smyrna, GA Join date: February 2008 Member #: 374 Posts: 522 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Quote: muchacho previously said: Quote: jemesouviens1804 previously said: I would object to any involvement of the United states in training a potential new Haitian Army. Remember the last time the Americans trained the Haitian Army.....They used it to their advantage to surpress the population by insinuating Army Generals like Raoul Cedras to launch "coupe d'etat" and to kill his own people. I rather have nations that Haiti can trust to help train any new army. For this, I think the Brasilians would be a good candidate. America has to much influence on Haiti....We dont't need them influence any potential new military. Point well taken! I would never support unilateral American intervention anywhere in Latin America. But a coalition of nations may work in this case assuming you are talking about actual military academics who train the forces in their own countries and not career generals and political operatives in disguise. Those troops that are in Haiti right now are not United States Troops, they are the Combined United Nations what they call the MINUSTAH's in Haiti. However I inderstand your stance on the subject. Wilgeens Rosenberg "That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid" HispanolanoYoSoy Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com |
| #116 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:54 PM | |
Location: United States, Smyrna, GA Join date: February 2008 Member #: 374 Posts: 522 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Quote: jemesouviens1804 previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Why even have a military at all with their oversized budgets and useless generals? A decent, well-trained, professionalized police force and a coast guard would be more than adequate. Same goes for DR. You have a point but there are certain things that an Army can do that a police force would be incapable of doing. Enforcement of borders is a job for the army, and I'm pretty sure you know that Haiti has a problem with this. Combating drug trade is also a job for the army and yet again Haiti suffers from this. Futhermore you must understand that before there was a Haiti, there was a Haitian army. Most of Haiti's leaders was in the military. Just so you know, my grandfather was a General in the Haitian Army. Yes indeed a Police force can not do all the functions of an actual Army. Such as, Natural Disaster Crisis and such... the helping of Infrastructure Building and Developmental Projects down to even street cleaning an Army could be pt as such great use into the Country. What was your Grand Father's name? I might know him. Wilgeens Rosenberg "That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid" HispanolanoYoSoy Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com |
| #117 - Posted 22 April 2008, 6:56 PM | |
Location: United States, Smyrna, GA Join date: February 2008 Member #: 374 Posts: 522 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? THE IMPROVEMENT TOWARD HAITIAN-DOMINICAN PEACE. By Wilgeens Rosenberg Here is a post by Haitians and Dominicans on: http://www.prevalhaiti.com http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/poverty/2008/4/15/27649/Haitis-scarcity-spurs-border-crossing-after-Dominican-abundance/comment-posted#comments-note IT STATES: The Dominican people have done and do too much for Haiti and Haitians, if you consider the eternal political context and the dynamic aspect of both Haiti and Dominican Republic . Haiti is the poorest country in western world and to realise a talk show with the other side of the border, the Haitian Government must start with a lot of things. In a global context, they must begin to work very hard, day and night, during a minimum of 10 years without turmoil and conflict to give a better, yes, just a better face to Haiti's infrastructure all socially, politically and eventually economically and it goes as follow: Decrease the the amount of what you call " Bidon-Villes" Port-Au-prince is not a city but a huge bidonville. Increase the employment rate in the whole country by decentralize the Governmental Administration to give to the whole Haitian people the chance in the Country's Political affairs Simply because, if there is Zonal power sharing in Haiti, there will be jobs and businesses in the other cities in the country side. Thus, people will move from the main Capital or major cities, knowing that they will most have almost the same opportunities that each respectable Departments will have in the Country. From there, you will perhaps be able to discuss with the Dominican Authority over matters of Haitian problems and issues. However I think, when Haiti will be in a better economical position, the Dominican people will consider Haitians as their brothers regardless if both nations speak different language. That will be pale in differences to have to deal with since I am sure there is not as much of greater problems of skin color anymore as it used to exist. It is rather a problem of poverty on both sides. Haiti needs to clean house the bad people have to be identified and brought under a court, and they must pay for their crimes. those that want true democracy and change should remain. The country needs an impartial overseeing group that's interested in the country's development. That's the only solution but it is easier said than done. Because of all the mistrust that's been heaping up since the Duvalier regime. But the country needs heavy investment and an open market that is run by the government but focused on improving the life of the poor with zero exploitation then let the economy gain roots as more money flows within it's population. As far as you having both heritage's in your bloodline is not a problem the thing is perception, just because you have disagreements with people it does not mean that you hold any grudges against them. It only means that you are defending your point of view. How many Dominicans can say they have visited this site http://www.prevalhaiti.com and engage in dialogues with the Haitians on peace or probable ways toward reconciliation? It is not going to be an easy task, I know; but we both owe it to our humane heart of hearts to try to open the Chanel no matter how difficult we both may be on the issues. Let us not forget and remember that, whining, gripes, disagreeing, complaining to agreeing are all tools of expression and the art how most complex debates, arguments, discussions, disputes or even fights begins before it gets any easier to any path of setting aside difference and reconcile. So where do we all Dominicans and Haitians should start? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION: We can start by admitting that we are both people of color no matter how greater or lesser the shades may be or where more or less our ancestries are from. Both sides, as we can all agree our ancestry is of Africa, Europe and Taino Natives that is due and entitled to whichever sides wish to claim. (Yes, we are naturally colored as exists in the season of Spring and rainbow). No matter what, more or less, diversity is the roots of us all on the Island; to satisfy and put to rest any further resentments and racial animosities. so let us not let the Euro-divides conquer us once more, once again. This is the ROADMAP TO PEACE: Harmonious Haiti And Dominican Republic. REPLIES IN BLOG: This is a way much better analysis to hope that both Nations can do a lot better. That, I agree with in that statement: "The racial component of both countries is an important impetus to add when speaking about." Thus, no. I do not think proportionately that both nations had or have the same amount of slaves bounded by the same struggles. Of ourse not. As well as I do understand under every aspects of any kind of premises why those that are considered heroes to Haitians may not be to Dominicans, verse versa. That is a given. However, we are not in Boyer, Christophe, Dessalines nor any old Dominican liberators' time anymore. This was then, this is now. I feel both nations could have been a lot more pro-active toward peace than they both allow themselves to partake into. I, a Dominican-Haitian-Jewish or Haitian-Dominican-Jewish guy like myself (Whichever way is acceptable to both a Haitian, a Dominican or any mixture) would like to see better days ahead for the Island entirely. I am PRO-Haiti, I am PRO-Quisqueya, I am PRO-Bohio, I am PRO-Ayiti, I am PRO-Dominican. All in all and most importantly, yes indeed given the new name of the Island as a whole; I am PRO-Hispanola for peace. I feel compelled to ask this very question: Is peace your biggest fear and the fear of both Dominicans and Haitians? Like many may say: "Full interpretation of history is a must in creating differences to set mountains of worlds apart. If not, then you can come up with your own conclusion." Both Dominicans and Haitians have been doing so apparently. So in knowing so that this is the case for both Nations. What do you do to improve the condition or situation? Do you contribute and fuel the ignorance of the misinformed and miseducated Haitians and Dominicans, or do you stand for something greater than them both. That is what "we" must teach the new generation. QUESTION: This one quesiton I asked someone on one of the blogging on here earlier. Is it a crime against humanity to be Pro-Haitian even if one were to be or have been a total fully blown Dominican of no kind of Haitian mix? My answer is of course no, not at all. Wilgeens Rosenberg "That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid" HispanolanoYoSoy Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com |
| #118 - Posted 22 April 2008, 9:32 PM | |
Location: United States, Spring Valley, NY Join date: December 2007 Member #: 142 Posts: 433 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Hispanolano, I doubt that you knew my grandfather because he past away many years ago. I really did not know him myself, since I was very young when he died. His name is George Justafort. Father of 9 beautiful kids. I believe he was in charge of the nord department. God bless my "papi George". j'ai vu J'ai participe Je me souvien - 1804 |
| #119 - Posted 22 April 2008, 10:40 PM | |
Location: Brazil Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 1508 | RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Quote: HispanolanoYoSoy previously said: Is peace your biggest fear and the fear of both Dominicans and Haitians? Not at all (at least not for me). My dearest wish is for both sides of the island to get developed economically, socially and politically on equal terms. That is, to stop this massive economical imbalance that has historically characterized the economical development on both countries, first one side being the stronger one day, then the other, and never ever the two of them being allowed the chance to be on equal levels. You're right in saying that the political and economical admnistration must be descentralized if Haiti wants to have a chance on development. I have never found the sense in this insane concentration of power on the capital, at least not in a democracy. Edited on 4/22/2008 10:42 PM by Lautaro. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. —The Sith Code |
| #120 - Posted 23 April 2008, 12:05 AM | |
Location: United States, Smyrna, GA Join date: February 2008 Member #: 374 Posts: 522 | YOUR TAKES AND OPINIONS: Go Ahead, Talk The Hatred Out For Peace. U.S. AIDES TO STEM HAITIAN ENVIRONMENTAL CRISIS. http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/poverty/2008/3/15/27337/USAID-to-stem-Haitian-environmental-crisis http://www.prevalhaiti.com Posted today or brought to you by: Wilgeens Rosenberg EMail: Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com Washington.– Haiti's most vulnerable watersheds are the front lines of a U.S. Agency for International Development-led battle to protect communities from killer floods and to buy time to introduce long-term changes needed to boost economic development and the standard of living in one of the world's most impoverished nations. With an $18.2 million investment over three years, the agency will establish hardwood and fruit tree nurseries to regrow hillside forests, introduce new crops and efficient farming methods and eventually encourage lifestyle changes that range from using more efficient charcoal stoves to voluntary family planning aimed at curbing a population growing beyond Haiti's farmers' ability to feed it. Years of haphazard agricultural practices and poor land conservation have stripped forests and hillsides of the vegetation that blocks erosion and preserves aquifers making Haiti's population more vulnerable to flash floods. "This project looks to the future as well as to Haiti's most immediate environmental issues, so Haitians will have plenty of life-sustaining water when they need it and protection from water when they don't," explained Julie Kunen, forestry advisor in USAID's Bureau of Latin America and the Caribbean. More than 2,000 people died in May 2004 when tropical rains and mudslides destroyed many mountain towns. In September of 2007, Tropical Storm Jeanne killed another 3,000 in two of Haiti's most populated urban areas, according to studies carried out by USAID. ************************************************************************************************************* GET TO KNOW WHAT PLANS ARE AHEAD FOR HAITI. http://www.hipsanolanoYoSoy.skyrock.com/ http://www.preval.com By Wilgeens Rosenberg It is true that Haiti had to pay France for a Freedom they won legitimately fair and square. However all the Treaty of Ryswick was, was that Spain ceded to France the Western side of the Island. Let us get over it already. All that has nothing to do with later free Haiti shortly after since such treaty took place while the western side had still belonged to France. That treaty is quite irrelevant as to why Haiti still had to pay France which today this debate is in dispute between Haiti and France in Court; attempt on Haiti's part to get France to give back that sum. Anyway, rumor has it that Haiti will become a U.S Territory in July 1st, 2009. That is on the floor in both Haitian and U.S. Senates even thought there are great reform plans in the UN to revamp Haiti's economy and to rebuild his undeveloped infrastructures . Search and read up on it people. Something many were trying to prevent, just may finally happen. What does it generally means for DR, Haiti or the Island in whole now? *IN TERMS OF AIDES PLANS AND ACTIONS: http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/AllDocsByUNID/dede6ff35eb7cba0c1256e520053b393 http://www.un.org/depts/ocha/cap/haiti.html http://www.un.org/esa/agenda21/natlinfo/countr/haiti/index.htm http://www.un.org/esa/agenda21/natlinfo/countr/haiti/haiti.pdf http://www.un.org/esa/agenda21/natlinfo/countr/haiti/eco.htm http://www.wehaitians.com/forest%20land%20in%20haiti%20fading%20fast.html NOT AS IMPORTANT BUT QUITE RECENT: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107612.html NATURAL RESOURCES: http://www.indexmundi.com/haiti/natural_resources.html http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/Y1717E/y1717e13.htm#TopOfPage http://unjobs.org/duty_stations/pap/topics/natural-resources-and-the-environment http://www.photius.com/countries/haiti/economy/haiti_economy_mining.html GREAT RESOURCEFUL WATER DEPOSIT: http://www.panosinst.org/productions/island/ib01e.php MOST OF ALL THESE LINKS, THIS ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO READ: http://www.eclac.org/publicaciones/xml/3/23303/L683-ing.pdf IN MY OWN OPINION: If you want to conduct proper search, I advise or suggest that you all use Alta Vista, Web crawler and other good ones if you all have them. Because as for google although many use it today, but it really lacks detailed information and it can be altered by others if they are members. Thus, I had to agree with many in here today that Wickipedia is not the best source or tool for research. Usually Wicki would be the very first search result from google. The UN sites are found to be one of the best and the FBI World fact book is somewhat good, too. However, if someone uses Wicki, it is still proof in effort that at least that someone does some kind of level of reading as oppose to none. Recognition Denied: The Betrayal at Panama. http://www.haiti-usa.org/index.php Go Under The Content of: An Historical Look at Haiti-U.S. Relationships. However one may read all the other posts if so wishes to. Wilgeens Rosenberg "That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid" HispanolanoYoSoy Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com |