Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Latin America » Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
#121 - Posted 23 April 2008, 1:14 AM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Dont worry Hispanolano, this is nothing but propaganda. The US will not benefit from making Haiti a territory so I dont ever see this happening. Any country would be asking for trouble if they try to claim Haiti as there territory because the people will not allow it. I rather still have Haiti be the poorest nation in the hemisphere than become a territory and be rich and stable.
j'ai vu
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#122 - Posted 23 April 2008, 3:12 AM
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[B]RUMORS AND SPECULATIONS: I totally contested this Articulo.[/B]
Quote:
jemesouviens1804 previously said:

Dont worry Hispanolano, this is nothing but propaganda. The US will not benefit from making Haiti a territory so I dont ever see this happening. Any country would be asking for trouble if they try to claim Haiti as there territory because the people will not allow it. I rather still have Haiti be the poorest nation in the hemisphere than become a territory and be rich and stable.


Haiti To Become An American Territory in 2009.
By WESLEY ENGLE, GNP National Writer
Miami, Florida
This is a post that is being speculated and I question the validity of it, so this is not my own research nor opinion.
Posted by Wilgeens Rosenberg

Dated back from: Sunday April 1, 2007 25:61 PM EDT
Haiti to become American Territory

Congress passed on November 3, 2006 and President Bush signed public law 42-576, introduced by Senator Hillary Clinton that will make Haiti a Territory of the United States as of July 1, 2009.

As a Territory, all Haitians will become US citizens. Haiti will have the same status as Guam, Puerto Rico, and the American Somalia Islands in the Pacific. Alaska and Hawaii were territories before becoming the 49th and 50th states. *Territories are different from states in that they do not have a Senator in Congress and can not vote in presidential elections. These citizens do not pay federal income taxes, but are taxed within the
territory.

The will however pay Social Security taxes and be cover by Social Security benefits. Most benefits that American citizens living within the fifty states now enjoy, will also be granted to the citizens of the territory. Food stamps, welfare, aides to families with dependent children, and other US government entitlements will be available to all Haitians eligible after 2009 when Haiti becomes a territory. A State Department spokeswoman would not confirm the rumor that this action was taken to offset the influence that Cuba may have in the area after the death of Fidel Castro. She would only say that this had been on the priority burner of the State Department for several years. The DEA has lobbied for years for this move so that more effective anti-drug operation can be run in Haiti.

After this legislation becomes effective in 2009 Haitians will no longer need a visa or a passport to
travel to the States. They can go and come as they please just as the Puerto Ricans do now. The
Department of Homeland Security will establish offices in Haiti to check those entering Haiti; so that once in Haiti, it will be the same as already cleared Customs and Immigrations into the USA.

In preparation for this change the American government will start in 2008 to establishing federal ffices in Port au Prince to make ready for these changes. The government of Florida has highly endorsed this new law and has been a supporter from its beginning. Florida maintains that the influx of Boat People will be eliminated with the increase in the standard of living of Haitians at home.

Also, there will not be a need for boats after the Haitians can readily fly due to not having to wait for a visa.

GNP special projects manager Jack P. Peoples in New York and Gossip News Press writer Dude Smith in Washington, DC contributed to this report.

Wilgeens Rosenberg
"That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid"
HispanolanoYoSoy
Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com
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#123 - Posted 23 April 2008, 7:45 AM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Just slightly off topic, mr. Hispanolano, you mentioned the surname Dartiguenave being on your family tree, so, is your family related to the haitian general and former president Philippe Sudre Dartiguenave (1863 - 1926), by chance?
Edited on 4/23/2008 7:46 AM by Lautaro.
“Since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved.” Niccolo Machiavelli
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#124 - Posted 23 April 2008, 10:34 AM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Just slightly off topic, mr. Hispanolano, you mentioned the surname Dartiguenave being on your family tree, so, is your family related to the haitian general and former president Philippe Sudre Dartiguenave (1863 - 1926), by chance?


Yes, no, perhaps and maybe lol. I am not sure if that answers your question. To be frank, that I am not honestly so sure. Wow, a former President!!! I thought he was simply just a politician. Oh my, wow!!!

Yes although, my Grand Father sure used to mention him a lot as though they are/were related or something. A Haitian President, really? Anyways, yes my Grand Father used to talk about him a lot, so I doubt it that he would say or do so as often as he used to just out of nothing if there were no relations of any kind, then again who really knows right... Probably because he was proud to may have had the same last name as him or perhaps that could and would explain the affinity of military tradition and civic duty in my mother's father's family side. For some darn strange reasons I am and have always been drawn to military. My Grand father after returning frm DR I was told joinde the Northern Branch Army in HInche, Haiti. Do you k now where they say this guy Phillippe Dartiguenave is from?

What I do know for a fact and certain is that he used to actually tell us that he is related to Charlemagne Peralte. That one made sense because I have a cousin of mine his name is Wesley Dessert or Desert and Charlemagne Peralte is indeed his Grand Father.

If you have some kind of genetic tracking tool online you can refer me to; that would be great. I have never taking time to do genetical background research. Given the fact in Haiti and DR as you know our Achieve Departments tend to be lacking resources to go way too far back on family genetics unless one's family was either rich, own property (ies) or was in the mainstream media or in politics of that time of some kind.

I wanted to one day check on where "Philippe Sudre Dartiguenave" is from in Haiti as many told me certain names are or used to generally from certain regions in Haiti given where most of their French Plantation owners or masters mostly roamed. Thus, if he was from the Northern part of the Country of Haiti that it may have been quite possibly family. What I do know for certain he use to say he is related to Charlemagne Peralte a lot as well as he used to mention Phillippe Sudre Dartiguenave who both were I think during the U.S occupation in Haiti. I do not know if anyone would recall how their grand parents used to talk and tell inspirational tales. Surely my mother's family used to do a lot of that especially how they would tell us of our Dominican ties and relatives.

Like the Jiminez or Jimenez from what I hear is a name mostly from El Norte part of DR and that they were quite prosperously rich as well. Maybe some Dominicans may be able to help me clarify that if it is true or not.

I have not had much challenge finding about my father's side of genetic traits and history because quite simply it was easier because they owned and still own properties all over the place on the Island of Hispanola or at least back in his family lines they own greater wealth. To add with the fact that the connection, people and business skills my father had and known were all mostly Jews or jewish connected. As I remember him telling me about the only synagogue that are on the Island are in Sosua, DR and Jeremie, Haiti.

Funny enough a grand mother on my father's side is related to some guy in History of Haitian politic whose name was "Something" Pierre-Louis. What I do know is that down the aisle of both sides of my family, they tend to be connected to a lot of thing that has something to do with or took place during the U.S. Occupation or Invasion in Haiti. I know on both sides of my family, politics and higher education of all kinds has roamed in it. So if anyone can help me piece that out, that would be great.

Lastly: Both of my family sides are known to be all over the map of Hispaniola where North meets South and then East. I know I was told I have long lost families who live in Ouanaminthe till this day. Would it freaked anyone if I say this: I feel as tough my soul and energy much of who I am is being pulled from all kinds of directions. I have flash dreams that I know for certain that are not truly mines and of this time. My soul has done too much roaming and my energy is focus on this land, I can not really choose a specific part of the Island is simply the reason why I took on the HispanolanoYoSoy Online name. Thus explains why I am such an agnostic being, always caught in the middle or on mutual grounds fro sake of peace, but basic human nature, people tend to always want others to have to choose. Why?

I feel as though my soul can not really rest or be at ease since its work has not been quite accomplished or that it was already chosen for me. Good or bad, what if there is more to me than I allow my soul to explore now. Right now, this instant, I do not know if I will either love or hate what I will become; but there is this great sense of precipitance to simply just become... That I am scared of.
Edited on 4/23/2008 2:23 PM by HispanolanoYoSoy.
Wilgeens Rosenberg
"That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid"
HispanolanoYoSoy
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#125 - Posted 23 April 2008, 1:40 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
HispanolanoYoSoy previously said:


If you have some kind of genetic tracing tool online you can refer me to; that would be great. I have never taking time to do genetical background research. Given the fact in Haiti and DR as you know our Achieve Departments tend to be lacking resources to go way to far back on family genetics unless one's family was either rich, own property (ies) or was in the mainstream media or in politics of that time of some kind.



You should begin by trying to contact the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They have systematically archived all the records held in Catholic churches in Latin America. The Catholic Church has historically been very good at keeping records of births (through baptismal registries), deaths (through funerary rites and cemetery registries), weddings, confirmation and other social events. It is for this reason that Hispanics in particular have the best documented geneological records in the New World. At least on their Spanish side, but also on their Native American and African side because those records usually recorded if the person was black, mixed, white, indian, etc. And they always recorded if the people involved were foreigners (i.e. not from that colony). I don't know if they have actually begun archiving records from Haiti...I do know that they are still archiving records from Latin America and trying to match them with the immigration records deposited in the Cathedral of Seville. That's another thing...they are very thorough. Their computer system will track the movements of people from one colonial area to the other. The Hispanics of New Mexico, for instance, can all find out where their ancestors came from now because their archiving is complete.

There was a huge surprise when it was discovered that a large percentage of New Mexican Hispanics are actually descended from "marranos". Those were the Sephardic Jews that were expelled from Spain in 1492...the very year Columbus landed on these shores. A few years later, acheologists looking for Native American pre-Columbian sites, discovered an old cemetery. Most of the symbols on the headstones were Jewish symbols. When the names were matched up and compared against the LDS Geneological Registry, the last names of the people interred there where overwhelmingly those of Spanish Jews who left Spain within a certain time frame. That time frame correlated with the worst years of the Spanish Inquisition. Spain had the largest Jewish community in Europe for centuries. Many last names that we think of as being "Spanish" today are traditionally Spanish Jewish ones. Those include last names like Estrella, Diaz, Adorno, Lopez/Lopes, Gorme, Gomez, Cantor, Almanzar, Ramones, David, etc.

Now, one bit of caution...the Mormons (the membes of the LDS Church) are a racist lot. Their brand of "christianity" traditionally has seen people of African descent as cursed by God.
Edited on 4/23/2008 2:00 PM by muchacho.
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#126 - Posted 23 April 2008, 2:27 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Here is a little conspiracy theory trivial pop quiz for everyone.

Take a penny, a nickel, a dime and a quarter. Flip them as you keep them in their order in or of value so that all the president heads are facing up. What do you see?

Yes, all the presidents on the silver coins are facing another direction from the copper colored penny which coincidentally happens to be Abe Lincoln. Or maybe he is the one turning his back on them. What or whichever, point is this is the man who has finally enacted the abolition of slavery, yet he is on the lesser valuable currency of the U.S he of whom has some great meaning to a lot of people of Color, yes indeed, Blacks.

Now, let us for once and the benefit of the doubt that this was a printing error. How long has it been since the penny that it has never been fixed or perhaps in symbolism it has a greater meaning unknown to us all.

In G.O.D We Trust: Perhaps it just may really truly mean simply that 'In God We Trust' or does that G.O.D actually represent the (Spain, France, Great Britain, Portugal which White U.S Americans are descendants of) European vice that they've held dear to their hearts all these year throughout history that are known to men and to be constant and present till this day which are.

GOLD: The past natural resource they were willing to steal and killed for.
OIL: The now present resource that they are stealing and killing for.
DOMINION: Which is the prime goal known to even biblical apocalyptic term that represent the beginning of the abyss, thus World Domination.

Or perhaps to every known Mason is what is worship as the GOOD OLD DEVIL.

Which bring us all to the "E PLURIBUS ENUM" factor and theory: "Until all Is One" Now, why to all Christian known faiths of the world who knows of the scripture of Revelation which states "When all Is One" means the prophecy coming of the Anti-Christ and the return of Christ would be apparent and be revealed to us.

Never question why such a quote is in Latin and not in English on the very currency an English speaking Country is using. Of course latin being supposedly the LOST AND FORGOTTEN LANGUAGE since the Amaec. Perhaps this would have been too alarming to the most religious based faiths who believe that there will be an end of the world given the prophecy of the Four Horse Men, the 666 sign of the beast theory.

Knowing all this or given that people, Christians or not of whom most do not understand Latin nowadays in this society as they used to in the past, had this quote been in plain English, who would have actually use the money here in the U.S and who are religiously of any Christian faiths?

THEN AGAIN, FOR SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO IS NOT AT ALL RELIGIOUS AND QUITE AGNOSTIC; MAYBE ALL THAT I HAVE JUST SAID IN THIS ABOVE POST IS BULL. HOWEVER, ONE WONDERS; OR PERHAPS ONE DOES NOT AT ALL...

Wilgeens Rosenberg
"That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid"
HispanolanoYoSoy
Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com
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#127 - Posted 23 April 2008, 2:36 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
HispanolanoYoSoy previously said:

Here is a little conspiracy theory trivial pop quiz for everyone.

Take a penny, a nickel, a dime and a quarter. Flip them as you keep them in their order in or of value so that all the president heads are facing up. What do you see?

Yes, all the presidents on the silver coins are facing another direction from the copper colored penny which coincidentally happens to be Abe Lincoln. Or maybe he is the one turning his back on them. What or whichever, point is this is the man who has finally enacted the abolition of slavery, yet he is on the lesser valuable currency of the U.S he of whom has some great meaning to a lot of people of Color, yes indeed, Blacks.

Now, let us for once and the benefit of the doubt that this was a printing error. How long has it been since the penny that it has never been fixed or perhaps in symbolism it has a greater meaning unknown to us all.

In G.O.D We Trust: Perhaps it just may really truly mean simply that 'In God We Trust' or does that G.O.D actually represent the (Spain, France, Great Britain, Portugal which White U.S Americans are descendants of) European vice that they've held dear to their hearts all these year throughout history that are known to men and to be constant and present till this day which are.

GOLD: The past natural resource they were willing to steal and killed for.
OIL: The now present resource that they are stealing and killing for.
DOMINION: Which is the prime goal known to even biblical apocalyptic term that represent the beginning of the abyss, thus World Domination.

Or perhaps to every known Mason is what is worship as the GOOD OLD DEVIL.

Which bring us all to the "E PLURIBUS ENUM" factor and theory: "Until all Is One" Now, why to all Christian known faiths of the world who knows of the scripture of Revelation which states "When all Is One" means the prophecy coming of the Anti-Christ and the return of Christ would be apparent and be revealed to us.

Never question why such a quote is in Latin and not in English on the very currency an English speaking Country is using. Of course latin being supposedly the LOST AND FORGOTTEN LANGUAGE since the Amaec. Perhaps this would have been too alarming to the most religious based faiths who believe that there will be an end of the world given the prophecy of the Four Horse Men, the 666 sign of the beast theory.

Knowing all this or given that people, Christians or not of whom most do not understand Latin nowadays in this society as they used to in the past, had this quote been in plain English, who would have actually use the money here in the U.S and who are religiously of any Christian faiths?

THEN AGAIN, FOR SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO IS NOT AT ALL RELIGIOUS AND QUITE AGNOSTIC; MAYBE ALL THAT I HAVE JUST SAID IN THIS ABOVE POST IS BULL. HOWEVER, ONE WONDERS; OR PERHAPS ONE DOES NOT AT ALL...




Strange theory. But Lincoln is on the $5 bill and Washington's on the $1. I guess it only works with coins.

And E Pluribus Unum is Latin for "Out of Many One"...i.e. one nation out of many nationalities.

E is from the Latin verb "exire" to go out or come out (as in exit)
Pluribus is the Latin genitive plural of "plus", more or many
and...
Unum is the accusative form of "unus"...the number one.
Edited on 4/23/2008 2:44 PM by muchacho.
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#128 - Posted 23 April 2008, 8:48 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
muchacho previously said:

Quote:
HispanolanoYoSoy previously said:

Here is a little conspiracy theory trivial pop quiz for everyone.

Take a penny, a nickel, a dime and a quarter. Flip them as you keep them in their order in or of value so that all the president heads are facing up. What do you see?

Yes, all the presidents on the silver coins are facing another direction from the copper colored penny which coincidentally happens to be Abe Lincoln. Or maybe he is the one turning his back on them. What or whichever, point is this is the man who has finally enacted the abolition of slavery, yet he is on the lesser valuable currency of the U.S he of whom has some great meaning to a lot of people of Color, yes indeed, Blacks.

Now, let us for once and the benefit of the doubt that this was a printing error. How long has it been since the penny that it has never been fixed or perhaps in symbolism it has a greater meaning unknown to us all.

In G.O.D We Trust: Perhaps it just may really truly mean simply that 'In God We Trust' or does that G.O.D actually represent the (Spain, France, Great Britain, Portugal which White U.S Americans are descendants of) European vice that they've held dear to their hearts all these year throughout history that are known to men and to be constant and present till this day which are.

GOLD: The past natural resource they were willing to steal and killed for.
OIL: The now present resource that they are stealing and killing for.
DOMINION: Which is the prime goal known to even biblical apocalyptic term that represent the beginning of the abyss, thus World Domination.

Or perhaps to every known Mason is what is worship as the GOOD OLD DEVIL.

Which bring us all to the "E PLURIBUS ENUM" factor and theory: "Until all Is One" Now, why to all Christian known faiths of the world who knows of the scripture of Revelation which states "When all Is One" means the prophecy coming of the Anti-Christ and the return of Christ would be apparent and be revealed to us.

Never question why such a quote is in Latin and not in English on the very currency an English speaking Country is using. Of course latin being supposedly the LOST AND FORGOTTEN LANGUAGE since the Amaec. Perhaps this would have been too alarming to the most religious based faiths who believe that there will be an end of the world given the prophecy of the Four Horse Men, the 666 sign of the beast theory.

Knowing all this or given that people, Christians or not of whom most do not understand Latin nowadays in this society as they used to in the past, had this quote been in plain English, who would have actually use the money here in the U.S and who are religiously of any Christian faiths?

THEN AGAIN, FOR SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO IS NOT AT ALL RELIGIOUS AND QUITE AGNOSTIC; MAYBE ALL THAT I HAVE JUST SAID IN THIS ABOVE POST IS BULL. HOWEVER, ONE WONDERS; OR PERHAPS ONE DOES NOT AT ALL...




Strange theory. But Lincoln is on the $5 bill and Washington's on the $1. I guess it only works with coins.

And E Pluribus Unum is Latin for "Out of Many One"...i.e. one nation out of many nationalities.

E is from the Latin verb "exire" to go out or come out (as in exit)
Pluribus is the Latin genitive plural of "plus", more or many
and...
Unum is the accusative form of "unus"...the number one.


LOL, Muchacho,

One could say that Washington is on the Dollar Bill as having him being the first issued paper currency, thus the number one for first US President which coincidentally this first dollar bill hold all the symbolism of the New (American) World Order. As Washington himself is a mason and dress as such on his inauguration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UQ5CHifqMs

NEW WORLD ORDER= NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM (On That Very Dollar).

Okay let us argue semantic of words and their wording, placement or relativity which is my specialty. Since you want to be technical. And I am just going to write them down.

OUT OF MANY, ONE= FROM ALL, EVENTUALLY ONE.

OUT= Exit, Out of, To go out or coming out of = E.
MANY= Plural, All, more or = PLURIBUS.
ONE= Singular, Unite, Unique or = UNUM/UNUS.
(POLITICALLY: Under one Governance).
(RELIGIOUSLY: Under One Church).

AMERICA UNITED: Out of all the known States, Colonies over all exist one UNISON OF STATES OF AMERICA.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS WHICH NUMBER IN TERMS OF SUPER POWER?
Uhmm, just maybe the # 1

CHECK THOSE VIDEO CLIPS OUT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89SB59DT34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avVyf1OMjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LEljS3ib84

Remember to let me know what you think of them okay..?

THEN AGAIN LIKE I SAID, FOR SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO IS NOT AT ALL RELIGIOUS AND QUITE AGNOSTIC; MAYBE ALL THAT I HAVE JUST SAID IN THIS ABOVE POST IS BULL. HOWEVER, ONE WONDERS; OR PERHAPS ONE DOES NOT AT ALL...


Edited on 4/23/2008 8:56 PM by HispanolanoYoSoy.
Wilgeens Rosenberg
"That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid"
HispanolanoYoSoy
Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com
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#129 - Posted 23 April 2008, 9:12 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
A New World Order in Latin would be Novus Ordo Mundi...if I recall Catholic School latin class.

Novus Ordo Seclorum can mean "A New Order for the Ages" or "A New Secular Order". Latin did not use articles such as "a", "the", or "one".

[The articles commonly used in the Romance languages (el, il, le, la, lo, las, los, gli, i, o, os, as, etc.) were later Romance innovations derived mostly from the Latin demonstratives illo, illa, illud, etc. Except for Sardinian and Balearic Catalan who got theirs from the demonstratives ipse, ipsum, ipsa...the same source of Spanish's ese, eso, esa.]
Edited on 4/23/2008 9:13 PM by muchacho.
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#130 - Posted 23 April 2008, 9:23 PM
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RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
[QUOTE=muchacho]
A New World Order in Latin would be Novus Ordo Mundi...if I recall Catholic School latin class.

Novus Ordo Seclorum can mean "A New Order for the Ages" or "A New Secular Order". Latin did not use articles such as "a", "the", or "one".

[The articles commonly used in the Romance languages (el, il, le, la, lo, las, los, gli, i, o, os, as, etc.) were later Romance innovations derived mostly from the Latin demonstratives illo, illa, illud, etc. Except for Sardinian and Balearic Catalan who got theirs from the demonstratives ipse, ipsum, ipsa...the same source of Spanish's ese, eso, esa.]
[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes and yes. However, I see you are stuck on technicality or lack of total replica of the definitions of the words which are relatives. So we do have NEW ORDER in NOVUS ORDO in addition to Seclorum as in SECULAR as your word puts it, thus can mean also single, one, seclusive. One body even perhaps right? I am not trying to get to the fonds of the every status definitions of all the words, "Per say". You have got to stop trying to be pretentiously difficult and capricious like a girl lol.

So, did you watch the video clips or not, bro? What did you think of them? Speculations, conspiracy or not; they are quite weirdly alarming huh...
Wilgeens Rosenberg
"That Dominican-Haitian-Jewish Kid"
HispanolanoYoSoy
Wilgeens.Rosenberg@gmail.com
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