HispanolanoYoSoy previously said:


Yes, yes and yes. However, I see you are stuck on technicality or lack of total replica of the definitions of the words which are relatives. So we do have NEW ORDER in NOVUS ORDO in addition to Seclorum as in SECULAR as your word puts it, thus can mean also single, one, seclusive. One body even perhaps right? I am not trying to get to the fonds of the every status definitions of all the words, "Per say". You have got to stop trying to be pretentiously difficult and capricious like a girl lol.

So, did you watch the video clips or not, bro? What did you think of them? Speculations, conspiracy or not; they are quite weirdly alarming huh...

ny4life previously said:

Muchacho you have made great points. The immigration comment about preferential treatment towards the DR is true. We do have a large number of visa's compared to other countries. At the same time, not everyone can come here so they risk their lives to leave for resons you have already stated. Yes, some of the recent migrants do embarrass some of us especially the ones who have been born here like myself to parents who arrived during the mass exodus of the 60's and early 70's.

Poor Haiti, Jabao, do Haitians feel negelected and left out from the rest of the world. You have influenced New Orleans, Chicago, Venezuela, and DR but have not been respected or taken into account. All you hear from Haiti is that its the poorest country in the Western Hempishere with violence, extreme poverty, political unrest, UN troops, corruption for MANY years. Most Haitians migrate to DR instead of taking the yola to PR like Dominicans do. One joke about Haitians is that when they cross the border to DR they feel like they are in Miami. LOL. However, it's like a Dominicans dream to go to NY (meaning the U.S.) and now all over the world (European countries).

I think like you have stated Jabao. A Haitian with money is welcomed in the DR but a poor one is not welcomed regardless of race. DR is just trying to advance, modernize, and develop while Haitians who come in, mostly illegally (they don't belong without papers), are poor, mostly uneducated, and hurt the work force in the DR by severly lowering the pay rate of workers.

All Dominicans know that Haitians work hard and contribute to the DR's construction boom but it's at the expense of the Dominican worker. The Dominican businessman is benefiting tremendously from this mass migration of illegal Haitian workers in the DR since it's relatively unregulated from Haiti and supported by the Dominican business society which some politicans are directly invovled.

The real solution for the problem is

DR
A. Increase wages in general for all Dominicans since the current minimum wage will not allow the average Dominican to live a decent life, rather it contributes to poverty. B. Invest in free public education for all Dominicans. C. Create more jobs for Dominicans. D. Penalize all Dominican business who hire illegal Haitians to work. E. Re-patriot illegal Haitians back to Haiti. F. Continue to create and expand on social porgrams for the poor. (ie. Soledaridad)

Haiti
A. Control the border and limit the flow of Haitians. B. Develop the economy and create jobs for Haitians. C. Provide social programs to assist poor Haitians. D. Create campaigns denouncing illegal migration to DR.

Lautaro previously said:



Yep, he's on politics, but unfortunately, there are two things against his being succesful: 1- He didn't inherit his father's charisma or talent for making connections., and 2- He has allied himself with his father's political enemies.

JabaoHaitian previously said:

NY4life,

I think that in order for DR to modernise itself that Haiti my beloved country has to improve. Haiti hasn't got the respect it deserves but we are still proud and have our head up. No matter if they portray us in a negative light we know who were are. You can ask any illiterate haitian and they will tell you 1804 was our day of independence. I think the international community doesn't really care and manipulate the DR by distorting the facts and make it appear dominicans are the bad guy. With our history and turmoil between the two this is the easiest exit for the international community. As I said they don't care, they can live any time but dominican republic will always be there. So that's why it is a must that dominicans put there heads with haitians for justice for both nations. We live on the same island and it is our duty to take care of it..the island could care less who's haitian or dominican. Although, we need to set boundaries. I think your solutions are feasible but until haiti improves. It will always be the easiest way to escape although the grass isn't always green on the other side. Better communication among the two goverments and bilateral agreements. This routing things to USA to get to the same island is ridiculous..we are the ones losing out. There are many haitians in the USA/Canada and Europe doing well and want to return on day to retire. Doesn't that sound familiar. I have to say if dominicans don't participate in the future of haiti that tension will always be there. another thing raising the salary of dominicans isn't going to give them initiative to work harder. It has more to do than that.

ny4life previously said:



Both countries are definitely missng out with the mass immigration to other countries. However, the DR is making strides and capitalizing on the disapora with the dual-nationality, promoting home purchases, incentives to create businesses, and allowing the vote from abroad. I don't think Haiti has done much in this regard. However, I think DR needs to establish a trade agreement, cultural exchanges, and other cooperations to further develop relations between both countries. I do agree with you Jabao, the future of Haiti is dependent on DR. That's why DR is vouching for Haiti on all world forums. DR knows Haiti has to improve so DR can continue improving. World help for Haiti is necessary and DR FDI in Haiti is very important. Haiti should create incentives for Dominican business owners to invest over there. I'm not sure if that already exists. Also, DR can help Haiti with cooperations such modernizing and making Haiti's port more efficent. Our customs director Miguel Cocco has done an excellent making the ports more efficient and secure. I just heard recently that Haiti was having difficulty with efficiency at the ports. This is something both countries should definitely look into. Maybe even the development of border securtiy similar to the CESFRONT. They could train together and develop the framework. Immigration refrom is necessary along with a trade deal which is suppose to happen next year. (long overdue, but progress is being made).

muchacho previously said:

But to redirect this forum back to the main topic. The "problem" in question posed is more complex than "Dominicans want to be white." or "Haitians want to make us black."

There is a historic legacy that is bound irrevocably to the Dominican idea of who and what they are. Haitians are both offended and annoyed when Dominicans consistantly bring up their past history. The view it as Dominicans either refusing to move forward or scapegoating and vacilating to cover a racist agenda. Neither is true, although I suspect that many Dominicans delight in having Haitians believe that they are.

The best description for the solidification of the Dominican national psyche in stark contrast to the Haitian that I have found is this one:



At first glance this might seem like a straightforward account of facts. But you should also dig deeply into the implications of these facts. To have the withdrawal of family members for other parts of what Dominicans of that era viewed as their imperial community, and then be left behind to deal with the ravages of the invaders was a trauma that is unimaginable for anyone alive today. But make no mistake...it has left an scar so deep in the Dominican consciousness that the worst verbal offense you can hurl at a Dominican to this day is to call him or her: HAITIANO. In many ways African-Americans bear a similar scar inflicted during the brutal separation of whole families during the era of slavery. It manifests itself among African-Americans in the U.S. in sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant ways.

JabaoHaitian previously said:




How does my sentence prove your point. I think you are reading into based on assumptions. All I ask for is facts. Where are you getting this information from?



Again your comments clearly demonstrates the romanticise of the spaniards. Alot of haitians have french blood as well and there isn't one haitian that has an african last name. All are french,italian(like mine), spanish, arabic, and english. An average dominican have no idea about there spanish blood line unlike yourself. Basically you are depicting dominicans as equals when they were property and majority are products of concubinage. It appears you go great lenght to prove you spanish heritage and good for you. I for instance can tell you paternal grandfather was an italian immigrant and my mother side are mulattos(concubines of the french). If you are so spanish how come majority of dominicans can't request for spanish citizenship like others in latin america. Again you are fantacising and keep dreaming.

cibaeño75 previously said:

"If you are so spanish how come majority of dominicans can't request for spanish citizenship like others in latin america."

I don't think that the gentleman was saying that he is spanish or even that he wants to be spanish, he is merely stating a fact, namely that most Dominicans carry spanish blood in their veins, just as most Dominicans carry African blood in their veins. Why should that even be a point of contention? Wether it means anything to the Spaniards or anybody else I think is really beside the point. It doesn't change the reality of the situation.

On a side note to hell with the present-day Spaniard. All the real men left Spain a long time ago to colonize the new world and all that's left in Spain proper are the descendants of the Castilianized peasants who lacked the balls to make the oversea journey and the tiny minority that had no need to make the journey in the first place. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

muchacho previously said:



Haitians cannot have it both ways. You can't break the laws of a country by entering and staying illegally and then turn around demand that the country be held accountable to laws of citizenship for your children.

cibaeño75 previously said:

hispanolano is out of control. The guy was trying to accuse me of being a hispanophile, being in cahoots with rubirosa, and God knows what else...lol