antonioj previously said:

As usual anything. ... or subject end up with a discussion about race. There is that obsession with race. Race is equivalent to what voodoo is to Haitian…… never stop.

cibaeño75 previously said:

Very interesting post USADR. But you left out what I feel to be the most relevant paragraph, at least as far as this thread is concerned:

"But are we going to complain about racism here and there or focus on opportunities? So, if back home in Haiti, most Haitians are not being treated as human beings, how on earth we Haitians expect to be treated well even in the neighboring Dominican Republic, where a black Dominican would feel insulted if a Haitian would dare call him /her moreno or morena (“black)?"

Eso lo dijo un haitiano que habla claro. Kudos to him.

cibaeño75 previously said:

If one has such problems with Dominican society why go to the DR at all? Don't bother with my people then. If I find something disagreeable then I avoid it at all costs. Life is to short to dwell on what the individual percieves as negative. Visit other nations where the society's outlook would be more in tune to your way of thinking. Since this Mnemonic and Talia have such negative images of my people to transmit to the world I suggest that they don't return and save us and themselves trouble. I've gone to nations that I would never return to because I found the national character personally repulsive. Mnemonic and Talia if that's the case with you guys as far as DR is concerned then borrow a page from my book and never return to DR.

USADR previously said:

Like I've always stated, the schism of race/color & their correlation to socioeconomic class ran much much deeper in Haiti:
Here's a quick look at some Haitian history:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:FoH9EIZlwEwJ:www.rebuildinghaiti.org/haiti.html+haiti%2Bcolorism%2Bdark+skin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us
Upon assuming power, General Dessalines authorized the Constitution of 1804. This constitution, in terms of social freedoms 1. Freedom of Religion (Under Toussaint Catholicism had been declared the official state religion); 2. All citizens of Haiti, regardless of skin color, to be known as "Black." (This was an attempt to eliminate the multi-tiered racial hierarchy which had developed in Haiti, with full-blooded Europeans at the top, various levels of light to brown skin in the middle, and dark skinned "Kongo" from Africa at the bottom). 3. White men where forbidden from possessing property or domain on Haitian soil.

And let's not forget the Noirism ideology from Duvalier:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:_kx4onN_IcsJ:www.justresponse.net/Isma3.html+noirism%2Bracism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
By contrast, in Haiti, Duvalirierism used “noirism” (a kind of racism, vulgar antiracism) and Creole as its main pillars to camouflage its true diabolical face, its fascism and its “inversed gobinism” as Depestre himself calls it. (Gobinism is from ultra-racist Athur de Gobineau who wrote in 1853 The Inequality of Human Races to justify White supremacy over all non-Whites) Further back into the Haitian history, French commissioner, Sontonax, during the revolutionary war, used Creole as one of his main tools to seduce revolted slaves back

Apparently Duvalier did not follow his own idealogy...his wife was a very light skinned women.

Here is an article published by the NY TImes in 1994:

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:X72WGj1WOpMJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9B0DE0D61E3BF933A1575AC0A962958260+haiti%2Bcolorism%2Bdark+skin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us
Emboldened by the presence of American troops, supporters of Father Aristide, who gathered at the port this afternoon, erupted in spontaneous cheers and chants, saluting the arrival of the Americans. In a country where skin color is a major source of class conflict, one poorly dressed, dark-skinned vendor of souvenirs approached a group of lighter-skinned Haitians sitting on the hoods of their expensive cars and began to berate them, calling them a pack of thieves and freeloaders.

Anyone who studies Haitian culture/history know these things...that's why I find it laughable when Haitians try to demonize DR. DR never had this level of race/color hatred.

cibaeño75 previously said:

"ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW. (AS I'M FALLING OFF MY CHAIR LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY!) mnemonic I saw what you were saying when I went there."

In other words you agreed with Mnemonics assesment, hence the reason why I painted you with the same brush. Know this: Loving a country does not mean loving the view from your hotel room or the all-you-can-eat buffets. Loving a country entails loving its people. Mnemonics' assesment was a thinly disguised jab at Dominican society as he saw it that reeked of contempt for the Dominican people and you agreed with it. No my dear, my reading comprehension skills are not lacking nor do I read selectively. Perhaps you failed to realize what you had posted.

talia previously said:

I am haitian-american or Haitiana-americana. I accept the fact that most of my heritage like that of most other haitians is made up of african ancestry for the most part. And I believe that most dominicanos have african ancestry as one of the smallest parts of their biological/genetic lineage. I being honest with myself. I don't think it should even be debated. For some dominicans the percentage is so small it seems funny to even acknowledge it. For instance my grandfather's grandmother was 100% European white french. I don't walk around spotilighting that because I know the percentage of this is so small its riduculous to even mention. And then I have to deal with people saying "oh she's only saying that because she wants to seem more white or european" uuhh- how bout' no! But Haiti is not completely an extension of AFRICA, (they do have French ties culturally and biologically whether mulatto or not) as well as Jamaica (British) or any other predominately black carribean island. <--Carlos Franco.

Dominicans are beautiful because of their range in ethnicity and cultural influence. Haitians are beautiful because of their african ancestry. As far as I feel I love the DR I love the culture and the people.

I went to the DR in January. There was one Dominican man that said even thougth I was not Dominican our skin tones were similar and because of this he deemed me attractive. Well I took that as a compliment but then I got to thinking if perhaps I was a few shades lighter or darker what would he think. I've heard (but not seen, only heard)people talk about how the haitianos or moreno dominicans take on more of a subservient role in some parts of the dominican society. But this is not the only place in the world that has followed this pattern. But I wasn't phased because I know this race/shade thing transcends from Asia to to the U.S. to Africa. I'm not justifying this especially when a man has higher qualifications and capabilities but is forced to do the dirty work because of a shade of skin, but its a timed tradition throughout the world, throughout different ethnicities.

I also like to go to the DR to show and even remind some Dominicanos that haitians don't just amount to cutting down cane in plantations. They can do great things as professionals in business, medicine and education. If Haiti had some stability Haitians abroad could do something to help the people and govt' overall. But it isn't safe and as much as haitians abroad love their country as the saying goes "you have to help yourself to help others."

And here's another thing I hear people say that the DR should help the Haitians more. COME ON MAN, they're lucky the DR let them in to take on pruning their cane plantations. Some of them are lucky and grateful for this cause they know good and well they wouldn't be able to get half-a-dime back home (UNFORTUNATLY!). People say that's the lowest of lows for haitians in the DR but they don't realize that haitians are in the lowest of lows more so IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY! And they can send some money to their families next door.

The post topic says "Dominican and Haitians, What is the problem?" The problem is that people need to accept who they truly are and love themselves. I love mis Dominicanos and Haitianos.
God bless Domincanos and Haitianos and I pray that they live in harmony together as well as individually. Dios le bendiga.

USADR previously said:



Yes, I have always noted this, that's why I have previously stated:
"Thanks for proving once again how color/race obsessed are many Haitian posters, constantly bringing this up and getting upset over the reply they receive. "

Here's the trend/cycle:

a) Diverse topics being discussed (non-race related)
b) Random Haitian poster attacks DR's 'color/race/self-identity" with racialist views (aka lies)
c) DR's respond
d) Another Haitian poster will then ask the DR's "why is it always about race'? When he should be asking this of the originating source (Haitian poster).

Cycle repeats after a while. Just wait.