Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Latin America » Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
#451 - Posted 14 July 2008, 5:01 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
*OFF TOPIC*

Congrats to Miss Venezuela, Miss Universe 2008!
Congrats to Miss DR, 2nd. runner up!
Congrats to my Latinas, showing the world the beauty of our women!!
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#452 - Posted 14 July 2008, 5:10 PM
Location: Canada, Oakville on terra firma
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
USADR previously said:

*OFF TOPIC*

Congrats to Miss Venezuela, Miss Universe 2008!
Congrats to Miss DR, 2nd. runner up!
Congrats to my Latinas, showing the world the beauty of our women!!


I second that , 3rd place runner up is excelleent
#453 - Posted 15 July 2008, 12:14 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
antonioj previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

*OFF TOPIC*

Congrats to Miss Venezuela, Miss Universe 2008!
Congrats to Miss DR, 2nd. runner up!
Congrats to my Latinas, showing the world the beauty of our women!!


I second that , 3rd place runner up is excelleent



DR baby. A small country with beautiful woman!
#454 - Posted 19 July 2008, 11:30 AM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
I thought Marianne should have won. She didn't come off looking so fake, like Ms. Venezuela (makeup too shadowey). Some people might not like the fact that Marianne, Miss DR answered the question in spanish, but I thought it was a smart move because she could've been stuttering in english out of nervousness like Miss Colombia. And if any one knows about miss North Carolina from Miss Teen USA "such as the Iraq, uh, uh, uh" you know what I'm talking about.
Ne-ways Marianne did a fabulous job.
Dios le bendiga!
#455 - Posted 21 July 2008, 3:06 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
This article will answer the question you posed

WHY IS HAITI SO POOR?
Bob Corbett Fall, 1986 Director, PEOPLE TO PEOPLE

1999 note: I wrote this essay some 13 years ago. I still agree with most of it, but have some changes in my own knowledge and thinking over the years. But, I've decided to leave the essay as it originally appeared in The Haiti Project Newsletter where I published this.

The question I am asked most frequently is: WHY IS HAITI SO POOR? This is a difficult thing for people to understand, especially for those of us living in a country as rich as the United States. There are some very obvious conditions to note in Haiti's case: the long history of political oppression, soil erosion, lack of knowledge and literacy, a large populace in a small country. But a question of CAUSES for such poverty is extremely complex. I have tried to respond to the question in a manner that points up this incredible complexity. Nonetheless, to stay in the confines of paper that could be read at one sitting, I have had to highlight, condense and simplify.

This issue is a difficult one for you the reader. I urge you to stick with it, to wade through. Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The Haitian masses suffer some of the most debilitating and depressing misery of any people in the world. Yet, virtually all that misery is human caused, in most cases, by a tiny minority inside and outside Haiti who have the wealth and power to control.

HOPE AMIDST THE MISERY
The story of Haiti is- heavy and depressing. Yet I see hope too. To know the causes of Haitian poverty is to clarify the problem. It helps people like us to know where to focus our energies, our work and our wealth in attempting to lessen this misery.

Not only is this a difficult issue, but a controversial topic as well. I've tried to reflect the various thrusts of the argument as I've encountered them. But, ultimately I've had to decide where the evidence seemed strongest. I'm sure some will disagree and do so with vehemence. I urge you to reply. One of my central aims is dialogue, because it is in dialogue that we grow.

I. Root, but Less Visible Causes of Haitian Misery
The ultimate causes of Haiti's misery are human. They are rooted in greed and power. Both the international community and Haiti's rulers have continuously assured the destruction of Haiti's colonial wealth and the creation and continuance of her misery.

The international community's role.
French colonial contribution.
The international boycott of the new nation of 1804.
The French debt of 1838.
The United States Occupation, 1915-1934.
Post World War II United States domination.
The role of Haiti's rulers.
Slave-like labor systems in the early republic.
The elite's protection of its wealth.
Haitian corruption.
Human rights violations as a tool of oppression.

II. Secondary, but Immediate Causes of Haitian Misery
The international and national political climate of Haiti has assured her misery. But, little by little these forces have caused other factors to emerge that assure the continuance of Haitian misery even if Haiti were to secure good local government free from international intervention. (An unlikely prospect in either instance!) Some of the most noticeable secondary causes of Haiti's poverty are:

Language as an oppressor.
Ignorance and illiteracy.
The system of education (or miseducation).
Soil erosion.
Export crops vs. local food crops.
The lack of a social infrastructure: inadequate roads, water systems, sewerage, medical services, schools.
Unemployment and underemployment.
Underdevelopment in an age of international economic competition.
Haitian self-image.

For more details please check out the full article:

http://www.websteruniv.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm
Life is Short--Cape Diem!
#456 - Posted 21 July 2008, 7:57 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
CrouchingtigerhiddenHaitian previously said:

This article will answer the question you posed

WHY IS HAITI SO POOR?
Bob Corbett Fall, 1986 Director, PEOPLE TO PEOPLE

1999 note: I wrote this essay some 13 years ago. I still agree with most of it, but have some changes in my own knowledge and thinking over the years. But, I've decided to leave the essay as it originally appeared in The Haiti Project Newsletter where I published this.

The question I am asked most frequently is: WHY IS HAITI SO POOR? This is a difficult thing for people to understand, especially for those of us living in a country as rich as the United States. There are some very obvious conditions to note in Haiti's case: the long history of political oppression, soil erosion, lack of knowledge and literacy, a large populace in a small country. But a question of CAUSES for such poverty is extremely complex. I have tried to respond to the question in a manner that points up this incredible complexity. Nonetheless, to stay in the confines of paper that could be read at one sitting, I have had to highlight, condense and simplify.

This issue is a difficult one for you the reader. I urge you to stick with it, to wade through. Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The Haitian masses suffer some of the most debilitating and depressing misery of any people in the world. Yet, virtually all that misery is human caused, in most cases, by a tiny minority inside and outside Haiti who have the wealth and power to control.

HOPE AMIDST THE MISERY
The story of Haiti is- heavy and depressing. Yet I see hope too. To know the causes of Haitian poverty is to clarify the problem. It helps people like us to know where to focus our energies, our work and our wealth in attempting to lessen this misery.

Not only is this a difficult issue, but a controversial topic as well. I've tried to reflect the various thrusts of the argument as I've encountered them. But, ultimately I've had to decide where the evidence seemed strongest. I'm sure some will disagree and do so with vehemence. I urge you to reply. One of my central aims is dialogue, because it is in dialogue that we grow.

I. Root, but Less Visible Causes of Haitian Misery
The ultimate causes of Haiti's misery are human. They are rooted in greed and power. Both the international community and Haiti's rulers have continuously assured the destruction of Haiti's colonial wealth and the creation and continuance of her misery.

The international community's role.
French colonial contribution.
The international boycott of the new nation of 1804.
The French debt of 1838.
The United States Occupation, 1915-1934.
Post World War II United States domination.
The role of Haiti's rulers.
Slave-like labor systems in the early republic.
The elite's protection of its wealth.
Haitian corruption.
Human rights violations as a tool of oppression.

II. Secondary, but Immediate Causes of Haitian Misery
The international and national political climate of Haiti has assured her misery. But, little by little these forces have caused other factors to emerge that assure the continuance of Haitian misery even if Haiti were to secure good local government free from international intervention. (An unlikely prospect in either instance!) Some of the most noticeable secondary causes of Haiti's poverty are:

Language as an oppressor.
Ignorance and illiteracy.
The system of education (or miseducation).
Soil erosion.
Export crops vs. local food crops.
The lack of a social infrastructure: inadequate roads, water systems, sewerage, medical services, schools.
Unemployment and underemployment.
Underdevelopment in an age of international economic competition.
Haitian self-image.

For more details please check out the full article:

http://www.websteruniv.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm



Why do I feel this has Arcatype's signature all over it?
#457 - Posted 21 July 2008, 8:43 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Don't you quote the Corbet site often as well Wil?
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#458 - Posted 21 July 2008, 9:58 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Quote:
CrouchingtigerhiddenHaitian previously said:

This article will answer the question you posed

WHY IS HAITI SO POOR?
Bob Corbett Fall, 1986 Director, PEOPLE TO PEOPLE

1999 note: I wrote this essay some 13 years ago. I still agree with most of it, but have some changes in my own knowledge and thinking over the years. But, I've decided to leave the essay as it originally appeared in The Haiti Project Newsletter where I published this.

The question I am asked most frequently is: WHY IS HAITI SO POOR? This is a difficult thing for people to understand, especially for those of us living in a country as rich as the United States. There are some very obvious conditions to note in Haiti's case: the long history of political oppression, soil erosion, lack of knowledge and literacy, a large populace in a small country. But a question of CAUSES for such poverty is extremely complex. I have tried to respond to the question in a manner that points up this incredible complexity. Nonetheless, to stay in the confines of paper that could be read at one sitting, I have had to highlight, condense and simplify.

This issue is a difficult one for you the reader. I urge you to stick with it, to wade through. Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The Haitian masses suffer some of the most debilitating and depressing misery of any people in the world. Yet, virtually all that misery is human caused, in most cases, by a tiny minority inside and outside Haiti who have the wealth and power to control.

HOPE AMIDST THE MISERY
The story of Haiti is- heavy and depressing. Yet I see hope too. To know the causes of Haitian poverty is to clarify the problem. It helps people like us to know where to focus our energies, our work and our wealth in attempting to lessen this misery.

Not only is this a difficult issue, but a controversial topic as well. I've tried to reflect the various thrusts of the argument as I've encountered them. But, ultimately I've had to decide where the evidence seemed strongest. I'm sure some will disagree and do so with vehemence. I urge you to reply. One of my central aims is dialogue, because it is in dialogue that we grow.

I. Root, but Less Visible Causes of Haitian Misery
The ultimate causes of Haiti's misery are human. They are rooted in greed and power. Both the international community and Haiti's rulers have continuously assured the destruction of Haiti's colonial wealth and the creation and continuance of her misery.

The international community's role.
French colonial contribution.
The international boycott of the new nation of 1804.
The French debt of 1838.
The United States Occupation, 1915-1934.
Post World War II United States domination.
The role of Haiti's rulers.
Slave-like labor systems in the early republic.
The elite's protection of its wealth.
Haitian corruption.
Human rights violations as a tool of oppression.

II. Secondary, but Immediate Causes of Haitian Misery
The international and national political climate of Haiti has assured her misery. But, little by little these forces have caused other factors to emerge that assure the continuance of Haitian misery even if Haiti were to secure good local government free from international intervention. (An unlikely prospect in either instance!) Some of the most noticeable secondary causes of Haiti's poverty are:

Language as an oppressor.
Ignorance and illiteracy.
The system of education (or miseducation).
Soil erosion.
Export crops vs. local food crops.
The lack of a social infrastructure: inadequate roads, water systems, sewerage, medical services, schools.
Unemployment and underemployment.
Underdevelopment in an age of international economic competition.
Haitian self-image.

For more details please check out the full article:

http://www.websteruniv.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm



Why do I feel this has Arcatype's signature all over it?



Don´t tell me that you´ll have the guts to accuse Bob Corbett, the most knowledgeable expert on haitian affairs, of being anti-haitian, Will. If you have read the article on its entirety (a thing that you haven't done, hence your assumptions), you have to recognize that it's the most complete analysis of haitian society ever made by a foreigner up to this day. If you'll disagree with it, at least make it point for point, if you must.
Edited on 7/21/2008 10:01 PM by Lautaro.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#459 - Posted 21 July 2008, 11:22 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Don't you quote the Corbet site often as well Wil?



Yeah, you're right (lol)! Simply that the arrangement of that report seems slightly fishy and like something Arc would simply manufactured with his own twists. He is known for creating whole webpages with his vomit of Haiti that Arc(lol)! Psych, I am playing, I have no prove of that, but he is know to fabricate his own fact by selective reading and comprehension.
Edited on 7/21/2008 11:26 PM by AfroLatino.
#460 - Posted 21 July 2008, 11:24 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, La Union
Join date: July 2008
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Quote:
CrouchingtigerhiddenHaitian previously said:

This article will answer the question you posed

WHY IS HAITI SO POOR?
Bob Corbett Fall, 1986 Director, PEOPLE TO PEOPLE

1999 note: I wrote this essay some 13 years ago. I still agree with most of it, but have some changes in my own knowledge and thinking over the years. But, I've decided to leave the essay as it originally appeared in The Haiti Project Newsletter where I published this.

The question I am asked most frequently is: WHY IS HAITI SO POOR? This is a difficult thing for people to understand, especially for those of us living in a country as rich as the United States. There are some very obvious conditions to note in Haiti's case: the long history of political oppression, soil erosion, lack of knowledge and literacy, a large populace in a small country. But a question of CAUSES for such poverty is extremely complex. I have tried to respond to the question in a manner that points up this incredible complexity. Nonetheless, to stay in the confines of paper that could be read at one sitting, I have had to highlight, condense and simplify.

This issue is a difficult one for you the reader. I urge you to stick with it, to wade through. Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The Haitian masses suffer some of the most debilitating and depressing misery of any people in the world. Yet, virtually all that misery is human caused, in most cases, by a tiny minority inside and outside Haiti who have the wealth and power to control.

HOPE AMIDST THE MISERY
The story of Haiti is- heavy and depressing. Yet I see hope too. To know the causes of Haitian poverty is to clarify the problem. It helps people like us to know where to focus our energies, our work and our wealth in attempting to lessen this misery.

Not only is this a difficult issue, but a controversial topic as well. I've tried to reflect the various thrusts of the argument as I've encountered them. But, ultimately I've had to decide where the evidence seemed strongest. I'm sure some will disagree and do so with vehemence. I urge you to reply. One of my central aims is dialogue, because it is in dialogue that we grow.

I. Root, but Less Visible Causes of Haitian Misery
The ultimate causes of Haiti's misery are human. They are rooted in greed and power. Both the international community and Haiti's rulers have continuously assured the destruction of Haiti's colonial wealth and the creation and continuance of her misery.

The international community's role.
French colonial contribution.
The international boycott of the new nation of 1804.
The French debt of 1838.
The United States Occupation, 1915-1934.
Post World War II United States domination.
The role of Haiti's rulers.
Slave-like labor systems in the early republic.
The elite's protection of its wealth.
Haitian corruption.
Human rights violations as a tool of oppression.

II. Secondary, but Immediate Causes of Haitian Misery
The international and national political climate of Haiti has assured her misery. But, little by little these forces have caused other factors to emerge that assure the continuance of Haitian misery even if Haiti were to secure good local government free from international intervention. (An unlikely prospect in either instance!) Some of the most noticeable secondary causes of Haiti's poverty are:

Language as an oppressor.
Ignorance and illiteracy.
The system of education (or miseducation).
Soil erosion.
Export crops vs. local food crops.
The lack of a social infrastructure: inadequate roads, water systems, sewerage, medical services, schools.
Unemployment and underemployment.
Underdevelopment in an age of international economic competition.
Haitian self-image.

For more details please check out the full article:

http://www.websteruniv.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm



Why do I feel this has Arcatype's signature all over it?



Don´t tell me that you´ll have the guts to accuse Bob Corbett, the most knowledgeable expert on haitian affairs, of being anti-haitian, Will. If you have read the article on its entirety (a thing that you haven't done, hence your assumptions), you have to recognize that it's the most complete analysis of haitian society ever made by a foreigner up to this day. If you'll disagree with it, at least make it point for point, if you must.



Indeed he is, that Corbett, I am not going to lie. He has been in Haiti for quite a while and even resides there. I just wanted for ARc to co me out of the closet if that was him, you know (lol).