Both countries are definitely missng out with the mass immigration to other countries. However, the DR is making strides and capitalizing on the disapora with the dual-nationality, promoting home purchases, incentives to create businesses, and allowing the vote from abroad. I don't think Haiti has done much in this regard. However, I think DR needs to establish a trade agreement, cultural exchanges, and other cooperations to further develop relations between both countries. I do agree with you Jabao, the future of Haiti is dependent on DR. That's why DR is vouching for Haiti on all world forums. DR knows Haiti has to improve so DR can continue improving. World help for Haiti is necessary and DR FDI in Haiti is very important. Haiti should create incentives for Dominican business owners to invest over there. I'm not sure if that already exists. Also, DR can help Haiti with cooperations such modernizing and making Haiti's port more efficent. Our customs director Miguel Cocco has done an excellent making the ports more efficient and secure. I just heard recently that Haiti was having difficulty with efficiency at the ports. This is something both countries should definitely look into. Maybe even the development of border securtiy similar to the CESFRONT. They could train together and develop the framework. Immigration refrom is necessary along with a trade deal which is suppose to happen next year. (long overdue, but progress is being made).

ny4life and jabao...

I reply to both of your comments but specifically to this one:



The first order of business is to enforce tax collection on all who have to pay. The Dominican Republic is notorious for its horrible rate of tax revenues. This is part of a pattern of corruption in the country. Dominican citizens are very quick to point out that the politicians are "crooks" (ladronazos), but fail to see how 8 million petty thieveries committed on a daily basis by the average citizen is doing more devastating harm not only to the economic life of the nation, but to its social and moral fibre.

It is almost a badge of honor to get over on the authorities by avoiding paying your fair share. I see it all the time with Dominicans living here. They delight in telling stories of how they cheated customs and got this or that item past the authorities or paid this or that customs official off or (and this is the most popular one)...."tienen cuña que trabajan en la aduana".

Dominicans have maintained a culture of graft and corruption at ALL levels that was implemented by the Spaniards, encouraged by the French, and continued under Haitain rule. They don't see how they are mortally wounding the country. In the U.S. do you know what happens if you get caught trying to avoid paying your taxes? Look at all the wealthy people who have been publicly exposed and landed behind bars for trying to get over on the system. Just ask Martha Stewart, Carl Icahn or the heads of Enron to name a few. This just DOESN'T happen in the D.R. If you are wealthy, you get over. And if you are middle-class or poor, you emulate the rich and try like hell to get over too...even if you are hurting your country in the process.

That's just NOT patriotism!

Those examples were not in trouble over taxes muchacho. Your point is still a good one...but then again if I were working over there I'm not sure I would be in a hurry to throw good money after bad by paying unenforceable taxes to a shady government. What is needed is always more economic activity, and I'm not so sure collecting taxes guarantees that ... though they could at least pay for roads and other infrastructure to support it.

But that's precisely the cycle I'm talking about Manhattanite. People use the argument in D.R. that since there are corrupt politicians in office, we should all be corrupt...or at the very least not bother with the obligations of every citizen. There are corrupt politicians in every country on earth. Not one is exempt. But the countries that are the worst off economically are precisely the ones whose citizens enter the vicious cycle of abdicating their responsibilities to their country because this or that politician is a crook. And then they complain when there is precious little money to carry out needed projects. The citizenry has very powerful tools to hold politicians accountable...the courts and, ultimately, the ballot.

That used to be the case with Italy and Spain back in the post-war period. But it took several decades of getting tough on courruption and citizens demanding that the rule of law be applied equally to all classes of society before any change occurred. Look at those countries today...they have among the most dynamic economies in the E.U. The reversal in Spain in particular has been astounding. In the course of one generation Spain went from a country that continued to export immigrants to Latin America to one that now has to import immigrants FROM Latin America. This wouldn't have happened if the people of Spain had remained complacent in the aftermath after the death of Franco.

There is a very real defeatist mentality among Dominicans that nothing will ever change and that every politician is destined to rob the country blind so why bother?

It is only defeatist if we accept politics as the only way forward. I think if there is enough economic activity then there is room for the corruption and graft. Squeezing people for taxes seems dubious and unsustainable without firms and activity generating something to be taxed. It is sort of a chicken and egg situation; more government revenues now might mean better infrastructure leading to more activity later , OR more activity leads to to more revenues leading to improved infrastructure later.

Anyway the topic in the thread is Haiti & DR relations and was going well so let's not move to economics.

But to redirect this forum back to the main topic. The "problem" in question posed is more complex than "Dominicans want to be white." or "Haitians want to make us black."

There is a historic legacy that is bound irrevocably to the Dominican idea of who and what they are. Haitians are both offended and annoyed when Dominicans consistantly bring up their past history. The view it as Dominicans either refusing to move forward or scapegoating and vacilating to cover a racist agenda. Neither is true, although I suspect that many Dominicans delight in having Haitians believe that they are.

The best description for the solidification of the Dominican national psyche in stark contrast to the Haitian that I have found is this one:



At first glance this might seem like a straightforward account of facts. But you should also dig deeply into the implications of these facts. To have the withdrawal of family members for other parts of what Dominicans of that era viewed as their imperial community, and then be left behind to deal with the ravages of the invaders was a trauma that is unimaginable for anyone alive today. But make no mistake...it has left an scar so deep in the Dominican consciousness that the worst verbal offense you can hurl at a Dominican to this day is to call him or her: HAITIANO. In many ways African-Americans bear a similar scar inflicted during the brutal separation of whole families during the era of slavery. It manifests itself among African-Americans in the U.S. in sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant ways.

Oye, eso era para que no sabian.

You are basing haitians are offended when dominicans bring up history on assumptions. If not can we get a reference on this poll that confirms your assumptions. I am not offended when dominicans bring up the past since I nor the dominican referencing history lived during those times. It is ironic how dominicans hold this grudge against the haitians but never mention the atrocities commited by the spaniards. In my assumption there is a romanticise affair that the spaniards viewed the dominicans with respect or as equals. I think the dominican psyche due to past event has this deep inner scar that I think needs to be sorted out with their haitian bethrens. Both nations have done things in the past which is embedded in the minds of both nations. Haitiano is a pejoritive in dominican society because it is synonmous to referring to that person as a negro. It is funny the mouth drop of dominicans when they encounter haitians who are white or lighter. Like the myth el haitiano being that ugly negro is broken and a sense of bewildered look sets upon. I personally recall of dominicans perplexed when I would say si soy haitiano blanco. To further shock I refer to myself as black. Now for the dominicans that are light skin it is an embarassing moment the table is change and the dominican becomes el haitiano...el cuco.. Now this is an assualt to the pysche of dominicans that thought hey are the only blancos on the island. Those are/were a joke among white and light skin haitians. Well those were my attitudes when I had first arrived in the DR which dominicans that I befriended just accepted and life goes on. There was time when my closest dominican friends brought up this very subject and afterwards we went on about our business and even had more of a mutual respect for each other. The african american analogy is way way off and I am not going to mention it. I personally think both nations need to grow the hell up and move on for the best of both countries.DR is doing good and Haiti needs to jump on the ride for a better island where dominicans and haitians live in harmony respecting each other...

So not true. Here is why. My father lives in Le Me Sur Seine, (Paris) France and was not yet even a French Citizen and all of us who are his children have French Citizenship. Especially my brothers and sisters who were born there in France. I wonder where you get your misleading information from. Never or nonetheless, is Dominican Republic copying other Europeans' Constitutions now? Oh so original huh...

Right, had he lived a little longer. Quite questionable with a quoted question mark "?"