Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Latin America » Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
#631 - Posted 23 February 2009, 12:36 PM
Location: United States, New York City
Join date: February 2008
Member #: 411
Posts: 5683
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
adaniels previously said:

Then why would you rush and get that child a Japanese passport?



Huh?!?
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Post IP: 161.185.150.18*
Advertisement
Sponsored Links
#632 - Posted 23 February 2009, 12:40 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Join date: December 2007
Member #: 38
Posts: 5613
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
adaniels previously said:

Then why would you rush and get that child a Japanese passport?


WTF?
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

Post IP: 200.88.48.3*
#633 - Posted 23 February 2009, 12:49 PM
Location: United States, Washington D C
Join date: February 2009
Member #: 2133
Posts: 77
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
WTF? Response you have so much pride in DR i that guess why all your people are drowning on raggady azz boats trying to flee!
Edited on 2/23/2009 12:54 PM by adaniels.
Post IP: 74.0.190.15*
#634 - Posted 23 February 2009, 12:54 PM
Location: United States, New York City
Join date: February 2008
Member #: 411
Posts: 5683
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
adaniels previously said:

WTF? Response you have so much pride in DR i guess why people are drowning on raggady azz boats trying to flee!


I see. Your whole thing is "how dare Dominicans have pride", huh?
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Post IP: 161.185.150.18*
#635 - Posted 23 February 2009, 12:59 PM
Location: United States, Washington D C
Join date: February 2009
Member #: 2133
Posts: 77
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
It's great to have pride,however most of you have it twisted,and do not pay homage to your true hertiage because you've been brainwashed into thinking that you are something that you are not!!
Edited on 2/23/2009 1:22 PM by adaniels.
Post IP: 74.0.190.15*
#636 - Posted 23 February 2009, 1:24 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Join date: December 2007
Member #: 38
Posts: 5613
Send Message
RE: DOMINICANS AND HAITIANS, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Quote:
adaniels previously said:

It's great to have pride,however most of you have it twisted,and do not pay homage to your true hertiage because you've been brainwashed into thinking that you are something that you are not!!


I wonder when will come the time for you afrocentrics to understand that here on the DR WE DON'T AND WILL NOT FOLLOW YOUR STUPID ONE-DROP RULE. We celebrate and will always celebrate our three heritages (European, African and Taino, in that order) equally, so if you have a problem with that then leave. We have enough problems as it is to indulge following the same racial crap that have plagued the US.
Edited on 2/23/2009 1:28 PM by Lautaro.
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

Post IP: 200.88.48.3*
#637 - Posted 23 February 2009, 2:18 PM
Location: United States
Join date: January 2009
Member #: 1994
Posts: 1150
Send Message
RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Cibaeño75
Well if the Dominican Institute of Genealogy is not a good enough source for you than may I suggest the fairy tail land of wikipedia? I doubt very much that you are in a better position to ascertain the geneaology of Dominican heads of state than individuals who dedicate their lives to such work. As for for Dominican heads of state of white haitian descent indeed there is such an individual, Nouel, but I did not mention him as I already knew that you were alluding to persons of african descent. Trujillo's black haitian background is common knowledge among anyone who knows at least a little something about Dominican history. The Cambridge History of Latin America states that Trujillo "came from a lower class family of mixed Spanish, Creole, and HAITIAN BLOOD"(emphasis added). Chirot's Modern Tyrants:The Power and Prevalance of Evil in Our Age states about Trujillo that his "grandmother was the illegitmate daughter of a Haitian officer and a Haitian woman who had lived in the Dominican Republic during the Haitian occupation. There was nothing unusual or disgraceful about this heritage, but it bothered Trujillo, particularly the fact that he was PART BLACK AND HAITIAN"(emphasis added). The fact that you are unaware of said fact speaks volumes as to your lack of information concerning Dominican history and the individuals in said history. That Balaguer is descended from black Haitians from his mother's side and is related to Heureaux is an indisputable fact. His mother was the daughter of one Rosa Amelia Heureaux, who's father happens to be the brother of Lilis' father, making Balaguer's grandmother and Lilis first cousins. We all know that Heureaux's father was a black Haitian emigre, that's also common knowledge and any portrait of Lilis will bare witness to the fact that very little, if any, white blood flowed through his veins, but according to your hypothesis his brother was a "french white". Yea right. There's plenty of documentation of this fact if you choose to look for it even if Mr. Balaguer was careful to conceal it (not once did he mention his mother's maternal surname in his Memorias de Un Cortesano, which is indeed Heureaux, even though it is typical in DR for most individuals to go by their paternal and maternal surnames). Unless you can provide documentation that disproves what I have just stated then you have nothing.

Gizmo Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was born in the Dominican Republic not Haiti. So that makes him Dominican. His mother and father were not Haitian either that practically seals his gene pool. As for his grandmother is concerned i never seen a picture clear enough to establish her origins wether French white or mulatto, mixed or pure black like 97% of Haitians. I don't know why you have such an obsession with this genealogy website. I went through it, and guess what it don't classify people by a particular racial group, it just give you there supposed lineage. At the end of the day, Trujillo did the right thing. Killing these lawless people named 'HAITIANS' in 1937. A people that single handedly destroyed the ecology of there own country, because the country since it's bloody birth gave rise to evil dictators, that enslaved there own people to enrich themselves. The worst enemy of Haitians are Haitians themselves, and the enemies of Dominicans are my enemies for life..... Wait a minute aint that the motto of every ex-haitian emperor, general, president "Governor For Life" TRUST ME I DID NOT MEAN IT THAT WAY! .....
Edited on 2/23/2009 2:19 PM by Gizmo.
READ A BOOK FOR REAL! BECOME A BOOKWORM MISTER BEFORE YOU GET SERVED!!!!!
Post IP: 24.215.163.1*
#638 - Posted 23 February 2009, 2:49 PM
Location: United States, New York City
Join date: February 2008
Member #: 411
Posts: 5683
Send Message
RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
Gizmo previously said:

Cibaeño75
Well if the Dominican Institute of Genealogy is not a good enough source for you than may I suggest the fairy tail land of wikipedia? I doubt very much that you are in a better position to ascertain the geneaology of Dominican heads of state than individuals who dedicate their lives to such work. As for for Dominican heads of state of white haitian descent indeed there is such an individual, Nouel, but I did not mention him as I already knew that you were alluding to persons of african descent. Trujillo's black haitian background is common knowledge among anyone who knows at least a little something about Dominican history. The Cambridge History of Latin America states that Trujillo "came from a lower class family of mixed Spanish, Creole, and HAITIAN BLOOD"(emphasis added). Chirot's Modern Tyrants:The Power and Prevalance of Evil in Our Age states about Trujillo that his "grandmother was the illegitmate daughter of a Haitian officer and a Haitian woman who had lived in the Dominican Republic during the Haitian occupation. There was nothing unusual or disgraceful about this heritage, but it bothered Trujillo, particularly the fact that he was PART BLACK AND HAITIAN"(emphasis added). The fact that you are unaware of said fact speaks volumes as to your lack of information concerning Dominican history and the individuals in said history. That Balaguer is descended from black Haitians from his mother's side and is related to Heureaux is an indisputable fact. His mother was the daughter of one Rosa Amelia Heureaux, who's father happens to be the brother of Lilis' father, making Balaguer's grandmother and Lilis first cousins. We all know that Heureaux's father was a black Haitian emigre, that's also common knowledge and any portrait of Lilis will bare witness to the fact that very little, if any, white blood flowed through his veins, but according to your hypothesis his brother was a "french white". Yea right. There's plenty of documentation of this fact if you choose to look for it even if Mr. Balaguer was careful to conceal it (not once did he mention his mother's maternal surname in his Memorias de Un Cortesano, which is indeed Heureaux, even though it is typical in DR for most individuals to go by their paternal and maternal surnames). Unless you can provide documentation that disproves what I have just stated then you have nothing.

Gizmo Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was born in the Dominican Republic not Haiti. So that makes him Dominican. His mother and father were not Haitian either that practically seals his gene pool. As for his grandmother is concerned i never seen a picture clear enough to establish her origins wether French white or mulatto, mixed or pure black like 97% of Haitians. I don't know why you have such an obsession with this genealogy website. I went through it, and guess what it don't classify people by a particular racial group, it just give you there supposed lineage. At the end of the day, Trujillo did the right thing. Killing these lawless people named 'HAITIANS' in 1937. A people that single handedly destroyed the ecology of there own country, because the country since it's bloody birth gave rise to evil dictators, that enslaved there own people to enrich themselves. The worst enemy of Haitians are Haitians themselves, and the enemies of Dominicans are my enemies for life..... Wait a minute aint that the motto of every ex-haitian emperor, general, president "Governor For Life" TRUST ME I DID NOT MEAN IT THAT WAY! .....


LOL I see. So because someone is born in DR that "practically seals [their] gene pool". That's ridiculous and you should make every effort to never repeat that line to anyone ever again. If you have issues with haitians that's fine. It's no skin of my nose. But you cannot come on here and make claims such as Heureuax being the only Dominican head of state that was of haitian descent on this site without being given a reality check. You stated on another post that you are concerned with the truth but you are not. You are concerned with what you WANT TO BE the truth. Arkatype/LightofTruth, this time you chose an appropiate name, that of Gizmo, a creature which was depicted in the old Gremlin movies as not being able to withstand bright light for it would kill him. That is you. Truth to you is nothing more than a light that should be avoided at all costs.

PS if you want to see a pic of Trujillo's haitian grandmother check out Rene Fortunato's El Poder Del Jefe Part I. If I'm not mistaken there's pic of grandma Chevalier in there. At the very least there are pictures of some of Trujillo's other Chevalier relatives and they are identified as such.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Post IP: 161.185.150.17*
#639 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:01 PM
Location: United States
Join date: February 2008
Member #: 336
Posts: 1984
Send Message
RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
As Trujillo's maternal grandmother came in with invading Haitian forces, and not running from them, I would not gamble she was part of whatever white French remnant remained in Haiti at that stage in the 1800s. Nonetheless I've also noticed that wherever she is mentioned comments on her heritage/color are conspicuous by their absence. Whatever heritage she was she is reported to have been a very industrious woman, a hotelier, a stand out especially in an age when female merchants were far from the norm. I have seen these facts about her cited in numerous books so anyone arguing the contrary will have to point me to some titles.

BTW on his paternal side Trujillo descended from a Spanish Army sergeant who arrived in 1860 and departed with Spanish forces to Cuba in the late 1860s. This one I have only come across in a book by Juan Bosch so far. If that is accurate as Bosch points out then Trujillo, although certainly as Dominican as any of us, was the genetic product of two military invasions...and his career the product of a third.
Edited on 2/23/2009 3:02 PM by Manhattanite.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

http://twitter.com/ergface
Post IP: 206.252.74.4*
#640 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:14 PM
Location: United States, New York City
Join date: February 2008
Member #: 411
Posts: 5683
Send Message
RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

As Trujillo's maternal grandmother came in with invading Haitian forces, and not running from them, I would not gamble she was part of whatever white French remnant remained in Haiti at that stage in the 1800s. Nonetheless I've also noticed that wherever she is mentioned comments on her heritage/color are conspicuous by their absence. Whatever heritage she was she is reported to have been a very industrious woman, a hotelier, a stand out especially in an age when female merchants were far from the norm. I have seen these facts about her cited in numerous books so anyone arguing the contrary will have to point me to some titles.

BTW on his paternal side Trujillo descended from a Spanish Army sergeant who arrived in 1860 and departed with Spanish forces to Cuba in the late 1860s. This one I have only come across in a book by Juan Bosch so far. If that is accurate as Bosch points out then Trujillo, although certainly as Dominican as any of us, was the genetic product of two military invasions...and his career the product of a third.


Indeed, no one is stating that Trujillo, or anyone for that matter, is any LESS Dominican because of Haitian ancestry, certainly not I. But facts are facts and oddly enough even this most simple of undisputable facts, namely that some Dominican heads of state are of haitian descent, is a powder keg for some.

Trujillo's paternal grandfather, Jose Trujillo Monagas, was originally from the Canary Islands. He lived breifly in DR in the 1860s, coming as a result of the Spainsh Annexation, siring a son that would be Trujillo's father. Trujillo Monagas eventually moved on to Cuba as Manny stated and become Havana's police chief and even wrote a book that was published concerning Havana's criminal element. Supposedly, Trujillo Monagas left many descendants in Cuba and most of the Trujillos from said island descend from him.
Edited on 2/23/2009 3:14 PM by cibaeño75.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Post IP: 161.185.150.17*