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#641 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:16 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Cibaeño75
Well if the Dominican Institute of Genealogy is not a good enough source for you than may I suggest the fairy tail land of wikipedia? I doubt very much that you are in a better position to ascertain the geneaology of Dominican heads of state than individuals who dedicate their lives to such work. As for for Dominican heads of state of white haitian descent indeed there is such an individual, Nouel, but I did not mention him as I already knew that you were alluding to persons of african descent. Trujillo's black haitian background is common knowledge among anyone who knows at least a little something about Dominican history. The Cambridge History of Latin America states that Trujillo "came from a lower class family of mixed Spanish, Creole, and HAITIAN BLOOD"(emphasis added). Chirot's Modern Tyrants:The Power and Prevalance of Evil in Our Age states about Trujillo that his "grandmother was the illegitmate daughter of a Haitian officer and a Haitian woman who had lived in the Dominican Republic during the Haitian occupation. There was nothing unusual or disgraceful about this heritage, but it bothered Trujillo, particularly the fact that he was PART BLACK AND HAITIAN"(emphasis added). The fact that you are unaware of said fact speaks volumes as to your lack of information concerning Dominican history and the individuals in said history. That Balaguer is descended from black Haitians from his mother's side and is related to Heureaux is an indisputable fact. His mother was the daughter of one Rosa Amelia Heureaux, who's father happens to be the brother of Lilis' father, making Balaguer's grandmother and Lilis first cousins. We all know that Heureaux's father was a black Haitian emigre, that's also common knowledge and any portrait of Lilis will bare witness to the fact that very little, if any, white blood flowed through his veins, but according to your hypothesis his brother was a "french white". Yea right. There's plenty of documentation of this fact if you choose to look for it even if Mr. Balaguer was careful to conceal it (not once did he mention his mother's maternal surname in his Memorias de Un Cortesano, which is indeed Heureaux, even though it is typical in DR for most individuals to go by their paternal and maternal surnames). Unless you can provide documentation that disproves what I have just stated then you have nothing.

Gizmo Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was born in the Dominican Republic not Haiti. So that makes him Dominican. His mother and father were not Haitian either that practically seals his gene pool. As for his grandmother is concerned i never seen a picture clear enough to establish her origins wether French white or mulatto, mixed or pure black like 97% of Haitians. I don't know why you have such an obsession with this genealogy website. I went through it, and guess what it don't classify people by a particular racial group, it just give you there supposed lineage. At the end of the day, Trujillo did the right thing. Killing these lawless people named 'HAITIANS' in 1937. A people that single handedly destroyed the ecology of there own country, because the country since it's bloody birth gave rise to evil dictators, that enslaved there own people to enrich themselves. The worst enemy of Haitians are Haitians themselves, and the enemies of Dominicans are my enemies for life..... Wait a minute aint that the motto of every ex-haitian emperor, general, president "Governor For Life" TRUST ME I DID NOT MEAN IT THAT WAY! .....

Cibaeño75
LOL I see. So because someone is born in DR that "practically seals [their] gene pool". That's ridiculous and you should make every effort to never repeat that line to anyone ever again. If you have issues with haitians that's fine. It's no skin of my nose. But you cannot come on here and make claims such as Heureuax being the only Dominican head of state that was of haitian descent on this site without being given a reality check. You stated on another post that you are concerned with the truth but you are not. You are concerned with what you WANT TO BE the truth. Arkatype/LightofTruth, this time you chose an appropiate name, that of Gizmo, a creature which was depicted in the old Gremlin movies as not being able to withstand bright light for it would kill him. That is you. Truth to you is nothing more than a light that should be avoided at all costs.

PS if you want to see a pic of Trujillo's haitian grandmother check out Rene Fortunato's El Poder Del Jefe Part I. If I'm not mistaken there's pic of grandma Chevalier in there. At the very least there are pictures of some of Trujillo's other Chevalier relatives and they are identified as such.

Gizmo If you're not mistaken? Yeah whatever, im buying that documentary just to see this mysterious figure that don't really matter. And what's you're point, and the pro-haitians claiming Trujillo as their own, a man that hated Haitians to the core, i mean seriously you Haitians and pro-haitians are a bunch of masochists. I guess you guys can't get enough of them lashings.
Edited on 2/23/2009 3:45 PM by Gizmo.
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#642 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:21 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
"And what's you're point,"

My point is that you are dead wrong in your claim that Heureaux was the only Dominican head of state that can claim Haitian descent. My point was revealing a falsehood for what it was, that's my point. Indeed check out Fortunato's documentary. I'm sure you'll enjoy it and you'll learn alot in the process.
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#643 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:45 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
BTW there are three volumes to El Poder del Jefe. Might as well get your hands on all three.
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#644 - Posted 23 February 2009, 3:48 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Cibaeño75
BTW there are three volumes to El Poder del Jefe. Might as well get your hands on all three.

Gizmo I will purchase the historic documentary soon.
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#645 - Posted 23 February 2009, 4:01 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
From The Dictator Next Door by Eric Roorda:

"...He was an old freind of Haitian Minister Andre Chevalier, who had been appointed to his post because he was a second cousin to both Trujillo and Miniter of the Interior and Police Teodulo Pina." (emphasis added)
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#646 - Posted 23 February 2009, 4:10 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
RELACION DE TRUJILLO Y BALAGUER..RAZONES VERDADERAS DE SU VINCULO DE 31 AÑOS

Balaguer no solo ocultaba su familiaridad con Ulises Heureaux sino tambien que mantuvo con perfil bajo el vinculo con su prima hermana Bienvenida Ricardo quien dio inicio a la relación entre el y Trujillo y con su gran influencia la mantuvo por 31 años
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El primer encuentro entre Balaguer y Trujillo ocurre en el año 1927 en Montecristi , su prima Bienvenida Ricardo , hija de Buenaventura Ricardo Heureaux, hermano a su vez de Carmen Celia Ricardo Heureaux, madre de Joaquin Balaguer, se unía en Matrimonio con el entonces Teniente Coronel Rafael Leonidas Trujillo, recién designado Jefe de Estado Mayor por el Presidente Horacio Vásquez, para esta ocasión, Balaguer, acompañado de sus padres y hermanas y con tan solo 21 años, daba ya señales de intelectual y poeta , fue presentado en la casa de la familia Tavares, lugar de la recepcion nupcial caracterizada esa noche por una intensa lluvia, por su prima Bienvenida a su nuevo esposo con encomiables elogios cargados de admiración que llamaron poderosamente la atención del futuro Dictador Dominicano, que de hecho, buscaba ya rodearse de intelectuales . Tiempo después surge una gran crisis familiar debido a la relación extramatrimonial de Trujillo con la que seria años despues su tercera esposa, Maria Martínez, pasa luego entonces Bienvenida a ser su amante (sin perder influencia alguna)y Maria su esposa , durante esta crisis Doña Bienvenida visita la familia Balaguer -Ricardo y se fortalece aun mas el cariño entre ella y su primo Joaquin ,a quien incluso confio el problema, recibiendo a su vez ella sabios consejos que permitieron el retorno a la normalidad, este gesto consiliador fue bien visto y muy valorado por Trujillo. Finalmente el 13 de agosto de 1927 Trujillo fue promovido a General de Brigada, cuatro días antes de la formal transformación de la Policía Nacional en Brigada Nacional. “Su constitución subsiguiente como Ejército Nacional, conforme a la Ley número 928, del 17 de mayo de 1928, completó el camino recorrido por Trujillo desde el grado de Segundo Teniente hasta el de General de Brigada y Comandante en Jefe del Ejército Nacional -todo ello en menos de diez años- al tiempo que señalaba su aparición como figura de notorio relieve en el panorama nacional. Trujillo llega al poder en 1930 y con la influencia de Bienvenida, llama al ya Doctor en derecho Joaquin Balaguer a ocupar su primer cargo de importancia en el gobierno dominicano, ya previamente habia sido invitado a vivir por mas de un mes en la Mansion Presidencial y de este modo acompañar a trujillo en el recorrido nacional. Balaguer define este primer acercamiento politico en su libro Memorias de un Cortesano de la manera sgte:
¨Durante un mes permaneci en aquella especie de prision,tratado con exquisita cortesia por sus dueños y pude empesar a conocer y observar interiormente a aquel hombre con profundo talante militar y con grandes maneras teatrales¨.
En el año 1930 se inicia la meteórica carrera de Balaguer cuando fue designado abogado del estado ante el Tribunal de Tierras, Meses despues ,para la navidad, Balaguer envia una pequeña misiva de agradecimiento a Bienvenida Ricardo por sus recomendaciones y apoyo incondicional ante el nuevo Presidente, iniciando la misiva como¨Querida y estimada Prima¨. Sin embargo,Balaguer queria continuar sus estudios en el exterior y de nuevo con la intervencion de ella ante Trujillo en 1932 fue designado secretario de primera clase en la legación dominicana en Madrid, y dos años más tarde, ocupó el mismo cargo en París. Una vez terminado su postgrado en La Sorbona de Paris, Trujillo lo trae de vuelta y en 1935 ocupa la Subsecretaría de Educación Pública y Bellas Artes y más tarde la Subsecretaría de Estado de Relaciones Exteriores. Para el año 1937 nació Odette , hija de Trujillo y su prima Bienvenida, quien fortalece aun mas la influencia de Bienvenida sobre trujillo y de hecho para apoyar aun mas su familia , Ya para 1938 ocupa un curul en la Camara de Diputados y En el año 1940 fue embajador extraordinario y ministro plenipotenciario en Colombia y Ecuador, Trujillo buscaba lograr estabilidad y buenas relaciones con los paises del area que estaban gobernados por presidentes intelectuales y nadie mejor que Balaguer para estrechar esos vinculos. En 1948 fue embajador en México y finalmente y logrado los propositos con exito regresa para quedarse en las mas altas esferas del gobierno y en 1950 pasa a ocupar la Secretaría de Estado de Educación Pública y Bellas Artes, donde realizó reformas importantes, como la creación de las escuelas normales, rurales y urbanas para la formación de maestros; también la creación de liceos nocturnos para la clase obrera. Trujillo estaba maravillado con su eminente y exitoso funcionario, que incluso se iniciaba ya escribiendo brillantes discursos al benefactor de la patria. La enorme confianza que inspiraba Balaguer a Trujillo llego a su maximo esplendor en los años finales de la era cuando en 1956 fue designado secretario de estado de la presidencia y ya para el 16 de mayo de 1957 vicepresidente de la república. Cuando renunció el presidente Héctor B. Trujillo en 1960, pasa a ocupar el 3 de agosto, la primera magistratura del estado, posicion que ocupa al momento del asesinato del Jefe .
Es bueno sin embargo señalar, que aparentemente Balaguer siempre quizo destacar, incluso en sus propios escritos, que fueron solo sus propios meritos , que los tenia de sobra, los que definieron su crecimiento politico, nunca definio a Doña Bienvenida como su prima, quizas temiendo que se asociara este merito logrado a esta familiaridad,esto fue quizas un gran error puesto que si bien Trujillo lo integra a su gobierno por influencia de Doña Bienvenida, tambien hay que destacar que Trujillo lo consideraba un verdadero Genio pensante y de gran vocacion laboral, incluso cuando Balaguer habla de Bienvenida la define como :

¨Doña Bienvenida Ricardo, ligada a mi por estrechos vinculos familiares¨ como vemos no la define como prima hermana y mucho menos menciona nunca a su Tio Buenaventura Ricardo ni a Odette Trujillo Ricardo, la hija de Bienvenida con quien llego a tener una gran relacion familiar. Tampoco menciona en sus libros los dos apellidos de su madre (Ricardo Heureaux), sin embargo menciona los dos de su padre (Balaguer Lespier), al parecer no queria destacar tampoco su familiaridad con Ulises heureaux..

Después de la muerte de Trujillo, el 30 de mayo del 1961, Balaguer inició reformas encaminadas a la democratización política. En 1962 se exilia permaneciendo cuatro años en territorio de los Estados Unidos y en 1966, tras las elecciones generales, resultó electo presidente de la república para el período 1966-1970. Fue reelecto para los períodos 1970-1974 y 1974-1978.En las elecciones de 1986 fue electo nuevamente presidente de la república para los períodos 1986-1990,1990-1994 y 1994-1996. Las elecciones que lo llevaron a la Presidencia fueron denunciadas como fraudulentas por la oposición, y sus mandatos se caracterizaron por la feroz persecución de sus opositores políticos. Su relacion con los Trujillo permanecio hasta su muerte, llegando incluso de manera secreta, a permitir en varias ocasiones la entrada al pais de algunos de ellos, entre ellos Angelita y Radhames ,con quienes incluso se reunio en su propia casa. Ciego y parcialmente paralizado desde hacía años, ingresó en la Clínica Abreu de Santo Domingo, el día 4 de julio de 2002 debido a una hemorragia gastrointestinal. Siete veces presidente de República Dominicana y ya muy debilitado, Falleció mientras dormía, a las 04,30 hora local del 14 de julio de 2002 víctima de un ataque cardíaco.


Por: Arq. Raifi Genao



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#647 - Posted 23 February 2009, 4:57 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

From The Dictator Next Door by Eric Roorda:



Cib what did you think of this book? I'm up to about chapter 3 and finding it even-handed and well rooted in diplomatic communications. Just as with another Trujillo book I recently finished in the early stage of his reign I find myself rooting for some of el Jefe's cunning machinations against the US State Dept ministers who almost literally thought of themselves as the final authority in DR. I often remind people that while many other poor nations had US puppets as leaders, Dominicans had someone much wilier and far worse than a mere puppet.
Edited on 2/23/2009 4:58 PM by Manhattanite.
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#648 - Posted 25 February 2009, 12:14 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

From The Dictator Next Door by Eric Roorda:



Cib what did you think of this book? I'm up to about chapter 3 and finding it even-handed and well rooted in diplomatic communications. Just as with another Trujillo book I recently finished in the early stage of his reign I find myself rooting for some of el Jefe's cunning machinations against the US State Dept ministers who almost literally thought of themselves as the final authority in DR. I often remind people that while many other poor nations had US puppets as leaders, Dominicans had someone much wilier and far worse than a mere puppet.


I think Roorda would disagree with your assesment of Trujillo, at least to an extant. True, he frustrated many State Dep. officials during his long regime, particularly Ambassador Curtis, but Trujillo was able to do so because, as Roorda pointed out, he always had someone else that was thoroughly integrated to the power centers in Washington vouching for him, particularly, but not limited to, high ranking military personnel, and this would often trump any efforts by State Department officials, and some did indeed try to the credit of the State Department, to undermine the cozy relationship that Trujillo enjoyed with the US up until the very final phase of his regime. Again, as Roorda pointed out Trujillo was very dependant on his military connections within the American establishment and without these it is very unlikely that he would've been able to thumb his nose at State Department officials for as long as he did.
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#649 - Posted 25 February 2009, 12:30 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
CIb which part of my characterization do you think Roorda will disagree with? Bear in mind I'm still in the early sections, but already in the early chapters he is touching on what you mention, Trujillo's use of Marine and other military contacts to subvert State Dept's agendas. I'll see how it plays out as it progresses, but I'd say that his ability to effectively use one US bureaucracy against the other belies seeing him as a puppet ... if he was a puppet he had a firm enough grasp on the strings in this period to get the puppetmaster's arms tied in a twist
Edited on 2/25/2009 12:32 PM by Manhattanite.
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#650 - Posted 25 February 2009, 12:33 PM
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RE: Dominicans and Haitians, what is the problem?
"if he was a puppet he had a firm enough grasp on the strings in this period to get the puppetmaster's arms tied in a twist "

That's for damn sure. Pendejo no era.
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