Peoples, there is this new topic thread I started called HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY your opinions are needed on it.

"All we've heard from the nationalist dominican historians that the occupation was worse than even colonisation. I have to say on the haitian side we don't have any information out about the occupation. All we here(I here) is that haiti occupied santo dominigo and that's it. Nothing that gets into details. "


Almost every historical work describes the haitian occupation as a time when the spanish language was surpressed. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. Neither is there much ofa mention of colonisation on the spanish side by a significant number of haitian families, not soldiers, but entire families. There seems to be alot of unturned stones when it comes to relating that chapter in our history


The fact that only within the Catholic Church were these records found in Spanish speak for themselves because the public records show a different story. The Haitian oppresion was clear and duly noted by many historians ,The fact that Haitian mulattoes and especially whites fled in large numbers is also no mistery due to the racial cleansing occuring in Haiti and the racist constitution implemented by the Haitians

Cibao,your hatred for Spain twists your logic and makes you look for benevolence in a place it did not exist.

The Imbert and Duverge families are just 2 products of the racial slaughter in Haiti and both of them were able to pay Haiti back by handing them defeats confronting us.

Pepe32

Am glad you are suprised.... theres more than meets the eye

Besides the obvious genetic ancestry, Canarians also influenced alot of Dominican culture. If you notice, much of the Spanish Caribbean region (PR/Cuba/DR/Colombian Caribbean Coast/Venezuela/Panama) have alot of commonality in their pronunciation of Spanish not to mention actual words that came via the Canary Islands.
I'm willing to guess that the traces of the exticnt Guanche genes found in DR came via these Islanders.

[QUOTE=Lautaro]
[QUOTE=muchacho]
[QUOTE=JabaoHaitian]
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You know what I find interesting about you...you don't so much argue a position as much as you turn tables. In a debate that is known as the "law of the loudest monkey". It may not be right or even very smart, but it gets him his banana.
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Listen don't take anything personal. It's just that a can see a fake miles away. I give it to you though, you come out is a witty chap but you still have certain weaknesses in your character taht will always remain. You can distort the truth for as long as you want but like I said it doesn't make these dominican heros less dominican if they indeed have haitian ancestry. It appears that this is something impossible. Beside you and hispanosoy can play intellectuals and link back and forth while others meditate and come up with our own conclusion rather than garbage in garbage out..let it digest a tad. All due respect sir. I would make a good politician have you ever ran for any office?
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And where have I stated that they [B]DO NOT[/B] have Haitian ancestry? Again you chose to see what you want to see.

My favorite Anaïs Nin quote: We don't see things the way they are...we see things the way WE are.
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I might be wrong, but maybe what he sees in your discourse, muchacho, is that, by your constant emphasizing on the spaniard/canarian origin of a great part of the dominican families, you may be demeaning the haitian origin of others if not directly, at least implicitly. As if the people from dominican families of spanish origin had more of a right to reclaim "dominicanness" than any of the other inmigrant groups over here. Again, this is my perception, correct me if I'm being unjust on my assessment.

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Lautaro,

I understand your point, but let me add to your post as to what I've also noted is that there is a double standard on these issues. It might be due to sensitivity due to pass heated racial type debates, but if Dominican posters speak about the Afroancestry or Haitian contribution it is seen in good positive way, like sometype of bridgbuilding, but the minute the Euro component is spoken about it usually is not seen in the same light.
To all the posters on here, Dominicans have alot of genetic ancestry from the Americas, Africa, Europe, and the Levant. There is nothing wrong with talking about this, this does not mean that when we speak about one we demean or deny the other.
A 'white' Dominican is and never was a carbon copy of a Spaniard. The Native Amerindians & African slaves became culturally Hispanicized, but so too where the Spanish colonist and criollos Americanized/Africanized. So much so that even in those days the Peninsulares looked down upon the criollos and found them a bit exotic. Their genetics might come from the same region, but they are culturally different.
So stop with the 'oh he wants to be Spaniard/white' or 'he's ashamed/denying his Afroancestry' when these subjects come up.

[QUOTE=muchacho]
[QUOTE=ny4life]
Frankly, its a waste of time considering that this thread is about a railroad. My post that ignited his inferiority complex was never even about his people or his ancestry. It was about...and I repeat...the shoddy scholarship of the authors of another website. But like NY4Life astutely pointed out...there does seem to be a very thin skin among some people when Dominicans discuss their origins. Let me remind some people that we are discussing our origins and they should really be more interested in theirs and leave us to debate ours.
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I agree with Muchacho a 100%. It's a waste of time to argue this but I think it has to be done. Haitians can't come debate who Dominicans are. That's up to us to say who we are. Haitians want Domincans to say Yes we are 100% African or Black like Haitians and don't have an ounce of Taino or European blood. I mean if that's how Haitians feel than go ahead. and celebrate the African culture. Dominicans obviously don't feel that way. We celebrate our euro, taino, and to a lesser degree african blood. I think to Haitians dislike we don't celebrate mother Africa like they want us too. I mean so what, get over it. That's how are as Dominicans and its not up to Haitians to view us as being wrong or right. We have been a people since 1844. We have evolved over time and we are Dominicans. It didn't happen the other day or 20 years ago. We have been Dominicans for over 100 years, let us be. Euro, taino, and african blood, leave it up to us to decide who we want to celebrate. Just like Haitians have their right to choose African/black so do Dominicans. y YAAA Papa.
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[B]
It is beyond presumptuous for a Haitian to lecture Dominicans on their origins. There were Spanish-speaking blacks on Hispaniola long before there was a Haiti or even French-speaking Africans [/B]on that island. Their attempts at pointing out the obvious is neither necessary nor asked for, but it has become a consistent and inflamatory aspect of nearly any discussion on these boards.

Quite honestly, Dominicans have the right to engage in geneological debates on their origins without having the imput of foreigners. We've proven over time that that we will not be subjected to an outsiders idea of who and what we are on our soil. Do we need to prove it on our websites as well?
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Truth.
I've purposely posted on other forums that the first slaves imported to Santo Domingo came via Spain just to sit back and let the knee jerk reaction fly. What's the usual accusation I've heard? "Oh, you Dominicans just want your blacks to be somehow less black by claiming they came from Spain' blah, blah, blah.

I'm not sure if their is sometype of hiearchy regarding who the Spaniards look down upon, but according to some Cubans who lived there it is:
-People who display a strong Amerinidan phenotype (indio looking)
-Muslims, Romanians, Albanians