Dominican Today Forum » Dominicans Abroad » Latin America » Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
#21 - Posted 29 April 2008, 12:27 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Boyer did indeed decree the use of French for all official purposes. He was routinely and defiantly ignored.

What is more telling during this particular time in history, is that the marriages that have entered the public record are those between the ruling classes of both countries. That's not unique nor a historical anomaly. Ruling classes intermarry everywhere.

It would be truly informative to attempt to document what the relations were between the lower classes of Haiti and the Dominican Republic during this period in their histories.
Edited on 4/29/2008 12:37 PM by muchacho.
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#22 - Posted 29 April 2008, 12:36 PM
Location: Haiti
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Cibaeno75,

Lately, especially reading non sense here I think both nations have alot of wounds and rather heal them they prefer to scratch their wound until it bleeds then turn around and exclaim. "See what you've done to me". History is very important for an understanding of our future but I think there are too many that are afraid of the truth. This article here as a said is a new revelation for dominicans not haitians. Just as there are many things hidden or untouched from the general haitian population regarding dominican occupation. I mean we are the only two banana republic that quarrel over events that I feel both were victims of circumstances in many cases. There is hope and there might be a great historian among us. I think Lautaro knows his stuff and Frank is pretty savy with the economic topics. You I think have alot to offer and honest with yourself, keep pushing ahead. I admire your character very proud of your humble roots rather than put on air as if it was given to you on a silve platter. I think I am too honest and equalitarian person. I could careless about who is haitian or dominican when it comes to justice and speaking the truth whether it benefits my countrymen or not. We are doing ourselves such a dis-service. Countries that have far more wounds some how have gotten over that hurdle and have healed their wounds while we sit here and bicker bicker bicker about things we can't change in the past but have the steering wheel with both hands but too focus looking in the rear view mirror rather than the road ahead.
#23 - Posted 29 April 2008, 12:47 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Quote:
muchacho previously said:

Boyer did indeed decree the use of French for all official purposes. He was routinely and defiantly ignored.
What is more telling during this particular time in history, is that the marriages that have entered the public record are those between the ruling classes of both countries. That's not unique nor a historical anomaly. Ruling classes intermarry everywhere.

It would be truly informative to attempt to document what the relations were between the lower classes of Haiti and the Dominican Republic during this period in their histories.


Can we have references to that statement? No wiki links and no abuela me dijo...thanks b4 hand. I know that the french also occupied santo domingo breifly during the same time as well. Could this have been the case and the ol haitian gets blamed for it. Lautaro can you elaborate on when the french breifly took possession of santo domingo.

The ruling classes have intermarried among the both sides for centuries and should not be of surprise although now they both prefer to marry foreignors not from the island period. The lower classes were too poor to marry for money & prestige but they sure like knocking boots. There are much more haitian domincian mixtures in the lower classes and many more illegitmate haitan dominicans running on the island but both are not proud to reveal this secret and it turns out as some form of hatred. I think dominican haitian mixture can form their own republic since they are many....
Edited on 4/29/2008 12:48 PM by JabaoHaitian.
#24 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:14 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
http://www.idg.org.do/capsulas/diciembre2005/diciembre200510.htm

interesting link...apparently some haitians make good dominicans..
#25 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:20 PM
Location: United States, Spring Valley, NY
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
From what I know Jaboa, The French gained Santo Domingo in the year 1795, after the "Treaty of Basel" was signed. Now whether they were able to occupy it is debatable. As you know the liberation on the western side at its peak.
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#26 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:25 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Quote:
JabaoHaitian previously said:

Quote:
muchacho previously said:

Boyer did indeed decree the use of French for all official purposes. He was routinely and defiantly ignored.
What is more telling during this particular time in history, is that the marriages that have entered the public record are those between the ruling classes of both countries. That's not unique nor a historical anomaly. Ruling classes intermarry everywhere.

It would be truly informative to attempt to document what the relations were between the lower classes of Haiti and the Dominican Republic during this period in their histories.


Can we have references to that statement? No wiki links and no abuela me dijo...thanks b4 hand. I know that the french also occupied santo domingo breifly during the same time as well. Could this have been the case and the ol haitian gets blamed for it. Lautaro can you elaborate on when the french breifly took possession of santo domingo.

The ruling classes have intermarried among the both sides for centuries and should not be of surprise although now they both prefer to marry foreignors not from the island period. The lower classes were too poor to marry for money & prestige but they sure like knocking boots. There are much more haitian domincian mixtures in the lower classes and many more illegitmate haitan dominicans running on the island but both are not proud to reveal this secret and it turns out as some form of hatred. I think dominican haitian mixture can form their own republic since they are many....



I dare you to count the number of wiki links I have put up...go ahead...I dare you. You will find that there is only one...a profile of Jean-Marie Le Pen as an introduction to those who have never heard of the man in reference to the Pasqual I law in France.

And here's the pdf research article. It's an eye opener because this had NEVER been done before by any researcher. This was put up once before on another thread.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/jml34/afrodom.pdf
#27 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:31 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Quote:
JabaoHaitian previously said:

Quote:
muchacho previously said:

Boyer did indeed decree the use of French for all official purposes. He was routinely and defiantly ignored.
What is more telling during this particular time in history, is that the marriages that have entered the public record are those between the ruling classes of both countries. That's not unique nor a historical anomaly. Ruling classes intermarry everywhere.

It would be truly informative to attempt to document what the relations were between the lower classes of Haiti and the Dominican Republic during this period in their histories.


Can we have references to that statement? No wiki links and no abuela me dijo...thanks b4 hand. I know that the french also occupied santo domingo breifly during the same time as well. Could this have been the case and the ol haitian gets blamed for it. Lautaro can you elaborate on when the french breifly took possession of santo domingo.

The ruling classes have intermarried among the both sides for centuries and should not be of surprise although now they both prefer to marry foreignors not from the island period. The lower classes were too poor to marry for money & prestige but they sure like knocking boots. There are much more haitian domincian mixtures in the lower classes and many more illegitmate haitan dominicans running on the island but both are not proud to reveal this secret and it turns out as some form of hatred. I think dominican haitian mixture can form their own republic since they are many....



Well, even though officially the french took possession of Santo Domingo with Toussaint's brief governorship of the island in 1801-1802, actual french presence would come with the Napoleonic expedition sent to subdue Toussaint and his indigenous army. During the final conflict between the haitians and the french, the governorship of the eastern part of the island would be on the hands of general Kerversau, but then, after Rochambeau's surrender to Dessalines, Kerversau's second in command, Louis Marie Ferrand, would give a coup de main against him in order to prevent Kerversau's following the terms of capitulation agreed by Rochambeau and Dessalines (which stipulated the french to abandon the whole island). That way, Ferrand could secure the french presence on the island for the next seven years.

In the beginning, Dessalines would be forced to ignore the french presence on the eastern part, because of the enormous task that he had at hand, namely, reorganizing and rebuilding his ravaged country after thirteen years of almost uninterrupted conflict. But then, things would change after Ferrand ordered his soldiers to make raids into the frontier towns in order to capture haitian peasants for resupplying the colony with slaves. This would be the "cassus belli" that prompted Dessalines to make his invasion of the year 1805, which was repealed only by the timely arrival of a French fleet commanded by Admiral Missiesy from Martinique. Hadn't this fleet arrived on time, the haitian solidery would have massacred the the remaining french forces on the island along with the easterners that took refuge on Santo Domingo city after the haitian soldiery overran the Cibao region.

The following six years would be of comparative peace and prosperity for the eastern part of the island. Ferrand would encourage some of the French emigrants to return to the colony in order to make it flourish, agriculture and the arts would be fomented, etc. In fact, hadn't Napoleon invaded Spain during that time, Santo Domingo would have remained a french colony, given that by this time, Haiti was divided between Henri Christophe's kingdom in the North and Petion's Republic in the South, their mutual hatred and waryness preventing them from devoting military resources into expelling the french from the island. What did the job for them would be the Peninsula War between the spanish people and the Napoleonic troops, which would translate itself into this continent by the acts of piracy and warfare that the spanish colonists would wage against french maritime interests, which included, of course, eliminating french colonies wherever they existed. The task of expelling the french from the island would befall on the dominican emigres headed by Juan Sanchez Ramirez, the colonial troops from Puerto Rico and the British fleet: http://www.jmarcano.com/mipais/historia/batallas/phincado.html

Edited on 4/29/2008 2:09 PM by Lautaro.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#28 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:40 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Fascinating Latauro...... You knowledge and expertise on Haitian-Dominican history is very impressive, to say the least. I hope you share that knowledge with your friends, children and whoever has a hunger to learn about Latin American history.
j'ai vu
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#29 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:46 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Quote:
jemesouviens1804 previously said:

Fascinating Latauro...... You knowledge and expertise on Haitian-Dominican history is very impressive, to say the least. I hope you share that knowledge with your friends, children and whoever has a hunger to learn about Latin American history.


I consider it my duty to do so, mr. souviens. It's important for the new generations to be aware of the mistakes of the past in order to prevent these from showing their nasty presence again.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#30 - Posted 29 April 2008, 1:47 PM
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RE: Railway linking Haiti, DR and PR?
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

http://www.idg.org.do/capsulas/diciembre2005/diciembre200510.htm

interesting link...apparently some haitians make good dominicans..



One interesting error...

Both the Espaillats and the Imberts were Spanish Catalan families. It is quite customary for Latin Americans to regard Spanish Catalan last names ending in "t" as French...they are in fact usually Catalan.

The Catalan language has strong similarities with Northern French (langue d'oil or Francien...the official language of France). It is in fact a close relative of Occitan...the traditional language of Southern France (generally referred to as langue d'oc or sometimes 'Provençal').
Edited on 4/29/2008 2:02 PM by muchacho.