| #1 - Posted 4 June 2009, 5:57 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Parque Colon statue of Anacaona Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2573 Posts: 3334 | Sosa in the Hall? Not anytime soon Historic home run race of 1998 not enough June 4, 2009, 2:44 PM By: Nick Friedel Sammy Sosa hit 545 of his 609 career home runs as a member of the Chicago Cubs. So Sammy Sosa thinks he is getting into the Hall of Fame -- has he lost his mind? "Don't I have the numbers to be inducted?" Sosa asked reporters during his "retirement" news conference in the Dominican Republic on Wednesday. Sure you do, Sammy, but so does Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro and Roger Clemens, and I don't think any of those guys is going to be headed to Cooperstown any time soon. As I read through some of Sosa's comments I started to feel bad for him. Like so many other kids, I grew up watching the former Cubs right fielder every day on WGN. He made hitting home runs and blowing kisses into the camera cool, and there's no question he helped bring the game of baseball back to prominence in 1998 when he had that epic home run chase with McGwire. Having said that, I don't think there is any way he's going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Whether or not Sammy wants to admit it, his name is always going to be connected to the steroids cloud that continues to hang over his sport. Granted, nobody has ever proven that he used any performance-enhancing drugs, but comparing the pictures of a skinny Sosa in 1989 and an Incredible Hulk-like Sosa in 2000 suggest a serious change in physique. And in looking at a picture from his 2007 season with the Rangers, it seemed almost as if somebody took a pin and popped all the air out of him. My brother and I actually attended the game in 2007 when Sammy hit his 600th home run and I can still remember the first words my brother uttered when he saw No. 21 for the first time. "Holy [crap]!" he said. "Sammy looks like he is half the size he used to be." As time wears on, there is a chance the steroids cloud may wear off to a certain extent, but, in Sosa's case, I still don't think it will matter. How does he expect to be inducted into baseball's hallowed halls when he can't even get his jersey retired at Wrigley Field? Heck, Jason Marquis wore Sosa's number for a couple years. The saddest part about all of this is that Sammy's retirement announcement should have been a celebration of his career, a way for fans to remember all the excitement that he provided over the years. Instead, it served as a way for a tarnished superstar to get his name into the public one more time. That's not the way you should feel when a future Hall of Famer says goodbye. Edited on 6/16/2009 4:56 PM by FredCDobbs. My daughter Yaina aka ". Chucky la Nina Diabolica " |
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| #2 - Posted 5 June 2009, 1:36 AM | |
Location: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨ Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 3390 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Evaluating Sosa's Hall of Fame candidacy During the offseason ESPN surveyed Hall of Fame voters and found that only 20.4 percent would have voted for Sammy Sosa if he'd been eligible. Now that Sosa has become the fifth player in major league history to reach 600 home runs, some of ESPN.com's writers and contributors assess Sammy's Hall candidacy one more time. Do you think Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer? Jim Caple: Yes At this point, it's hard to see me not voting for him, though I can't say I'm as enthusiastic about him as I have been about others. Not because of any steroid allegations, but because his numbers were inflated by the era in which he played (unlike McGwire, who had his first monster year before the explosion in offense, when 49 home runs was still a lot). Tony Gutierrez Sammy Sosa belts his 600th career home run against the Cubs, his former team. He hit 545 homers with Chicago. Jerry Crasnick: No If I had to vote on Sammy Sosa for the Hall of Fame at this very moment, I would say no. Sosa deserves to be in Cooperstown based on his numbers, but I'm applying the same argument to Sammy Sosa that I used for Mark McGwire. If Barry Bonds is neck deep in the steroid controversy and McGwire is waist deep, then Sosa is, at the very least, knee deep. I'm really uncomfortable with the thought of voting somebody in to Cooperstown, then finding out he engaged in some sort of transgression that would make me think twice. I want the Mitchell investigation and the surrounding uncertainty to play out before I commit to players with red flags. Maybe I'll feel differently when Sosa actually goes on the ballot, but right now my answer is no. Tim Kurkjian: Yes Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. There is no definitive proof about his alleged steroid involvement, so in the absence of hard evidence, his numbers are what we go by, and they are of Cooperstown quality. He has the fifth-most home runs in baseball history. From 1995 to 2004, Sosa hit 479 homers, the most at that time for any 10-year period in history. He holds the NL record with six consecutive seasons of at least 40 home runs; only Babe Ruth, with seven, has a longer streak. There have been eight 60-home run seasons in history, and Sosa has three of them. Sosa hit more homers at Wrigley Field than Babe Ruth hit at Yankee Stadium. For a few years, he was the Cubs. In 2001, he had 160 RBIs, 94 more RBIs than anyone on his team, demolishing the record for largest disparity in RBIs between a team leader and the runner-up. He got caught with a corked bat and was exposed at the end of his time in Chicago for not being a good teammate. But sometimes, the numbers overwhelm all else. And that is the case with Sosa. Keith Law: Yes Well, I don't exactly get a vote, because the BBWAA still thinks the Interweb is just a fad, but I think Sosa is a Hall of Famer. I guess I'd say that I just don't see the counterargument. He was one of the best hitters in baseball during his peak, has huge bulk totals, and won an MVP award (which he didn't deserve, but whatever). Never tested positive for any PEDs, so if that's a voter's counterargument, he should lose his right to vote in future elections. Buster Olney: Yes Only four players in baseball history have hit more home runs than Sammy Sosa, and he will finish his career ranked in the top 20 in RBIs. Of the six greatest single-season performances in home runs, Sosa has three. He's been an All-Star seven times, and ranked in the top 10 in MVP voting in seven different seasons, including 1998, when he won the award. Unless we have anything close to a full understanding and context of the steroid era, I have a very hard time effectively giving Sammy Sosa -- or any other player -- my own personal lifetime ban by refusing to place his name on a Hall of Fame ballot. I will vote for him. Steve Phillips: Yes Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Slam dunk. There is no smoking gun with him. There is just guilt by association. Just because he kept pace with Mark McGwire in home runs in 1998 doesn't mean he should be seen the same way as McGwire. Sosa made a statement in front of the House Committee on Government Reform in which he declared he had never used illegal performance-enhancing substances while McGwire did not. There are no former teammates pointing fingers at Sosa like there are at McGwire. He has never failed a drug test. In fact, consider that Sosa did get busted for corking a bat during his playing days. Why would a player on steroids cork his bat? He wouldn't. Sammy Sosa is one of the most charismatic players to ever play the game during his prime. He will most likely end up with the fifth-most career homers. He is a first-ballot Hall of Famer if there ever was one. Enrique Rojas: Yes Even in a discredited and stained era due to the use of performance-enhancing drugs, 600 is a large sum. Not only is Sammy Sosa fifth all time among home run hitters, but he was also a star who helped increase the sport's popularity when he had his epic home run battle with Mark McGwire in 1998 and 1999. Inevitably, Sosa's name is commonly noted every time we speak of the rampant use of steroids in baseball, but the American society is based on the assumption that everybody is innocent until proven guilty. So as long as Sosa isn't found guilty for violating any established rules, then his numbers should be the sole argument to consider in order to open wide for him the doors of Cooperstown. Jayson Stark: Yes I don't like declaring how I'm going to vote five years before the ballot shows up. So I'll just express how I'm leaning now. As I've said before, I'm trying to take a consistent stance on all members of that generation. So my position on Sammy is essentially no different than my stance on Mark McGwire. As I wrote when I voted for McGwire, I don't feel comfortable casting votes based on assumptions. Or popular opinion. Or messy appearances before Congress. Or who got named in Jose Canseco's book. If I withheld votes for players who fit those criteria, I shouldn't vote for anybody from that era. There were so many players taking something, I don't know how to pick and choose without more facts. So if I had to vote today, I'd vote for Sammy. But I reserve the right to change my mind if we all know a lot more, about him and everyone else, when the ballot arrives. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2875680 Edited on 6/5/2009 8:04 AM by yumnuk3. |
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| #3 - Posted 5 June 2009, 8:11 AM | |
Location: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨ Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 3390 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Brown-nosing 101: It pays to get along with the media. |
Post IP: 207.38.219.24* | |
| #4 - Posted 5 June 2009, 2:29 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1932 Posts: 1271 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Quote: yumnuk3 previously said: Brown-nosing 101: It pays to get along with the media. Contrale Yum, no digas eso.... al cesar lo del cesar... the man was one of the most relaibel hitters in his day.. Y sus numeritos indican qeu el corresponde el salon de la fama.... The man was a walking PR machine.. i loved his reply of "he the man in the United States and I the man in Domincan REpublic!'..... Va pal salon aunque ambos, Goulet Colonial ni FredCD, no quieran! |
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| #5 - Posted 5 June 2009, 2:58 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Parque Colon statue of Anacaona Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2573 Posts: 3334 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Quote: Glimmertwin previously said: Quote: yumnuk3 previously said: Brown-nosing 101: It pays to get along with the media. Contrale Yum, no digas eso.... al cesar lo del cesar... the man was one of the most relaibel hitters in his day.. Y sus numeritos indican qeu el corresponde el salon de la fama.... The man was a walking PR machine.. i loved his reply of "he the man in the United States and I the man in Domincan REpublic!'..... Va pal salon aunque ambos, Goulet Colonial ni FredCD, no quieran! Petey the dirt bag will get in before " Corky " My daughter Yaina aka ". Chucky la Nina Diabolica " |
Post IP: 66.98.33.10* | |
| #6 - Posted 5 June 2009, 9:45 PM | |
Location: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨ Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 3390 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Quote: Glimmertwin previously said: Quote: yumnuk3 previously said: Brown-nosing 101: It pays to get along with the media. Contrale Yum, no digas eso.... al cesar lo del cesar... the man was one of the most relaibel hitters in his day.. Y sus numeritos indican qeu el corresponde el salon de la fama.... The man was a walking PR machine.. i loved his reply of "he the man in the United States and I the man in Dominican REpublic!'..... Va pal salon aunque ambos, Goulet Colonial ni FredCD, no quieran! I was just trying to be funny. Sosa is one of those feel good stories. he came from a poor Dominican family, but worked hard at his trade to make a better life for himself. he also had great talent, he could hit and run and throw. The reality is that no one knows if Sammy Sosa took drugs or steroids. When you consider all the research done on Sosa, it's unlikely that a link to steroid use will surface in the future. |
Post IP: 207.38.219.24* | |
| #7 - Posted 8 June 2009, 12:43 PM | |
Location: United States, El cuarto bate Join date: March 2009 Member #: 2300 Posts: 10466 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON Sosa will be in. His numbers are crazy he dominated the game in the late 90's and early 00's. Sosa was the spark that brought the fans back after the strike. He will be in and there will be a statue in front of Wrigley someday |
Post IP: 12.96.27.7* | |
| #8 - Posted 8 June 2009, 12:57 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Parque Colon statue of Anacaona Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2573 Posts: 3334 | Quote: xwill7 previously said: Sosa will be in. His numbers are crazy he dominated the game in the late 90's and early 00's. Sosa was the spark that brought the fans back after the strike. He will be in and there will be a statue in front of Wrigley someday you obviously do not understand the process ...The public does not vote ....knowledgeable sports writers vote and they all know " Corky " beefed up to fast and then went back to a little person ....MacGuire is the canary in the coal mine and he did not even get 25% of the votes so all those guys are sucking air .....They will have to put Petey The Dirt Bag Rose in before they put the cheaters in and that goes for Bonds Palmiero and all the rest Clemens Corky the bunch of them My daughter Yaina aka ". Chucky la Nina Diabolica " |
Post IP: 66.98.33.11* | |
| #9 - Posted 8 June 2009, 1:42 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1932 Posts: 1271 | RE: SAMMY SOSA IN THE HALL OF FAME? ....NOT ANYTIME SOON GC: Sosa ius nowhere near as tainted as Bonds and others you mention. As for the 'cork'; incident , they xrayed over twenty bats he had in his locker and found nothing, The batboy claimed he gave Sosa that bat.. as for his size.. why dont you look at your picture when you were 20 and then when you were 40 , you too will dfind increase in size. Furthermore, I met Hanley Ramirez in heis roookie year (I even hired him in my fantasy team) and took a picture wihthim hten.... two years later he bulked up too... that doesnt mean steroids.. ite means better diet and better training.. thats all...... Dont be so hateful !! Sosa will be in HOF !! AS for Pete Rose, its a tough call and it hurts to see such a player be penalized for something that he did while not being in the hot corner...... however, I have no problem reconciling the punishment.... The guy was a manger and bet agaisnt his team!!!! |
Post IP: 75.74.78.1* | |
| #10 - Posted 8 June 2009, 5:33 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Parque Colon statue of Anacaona Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2573 Posts: 3334 | Quote: Glimmertwin previously said: GC: Sosa ius nowhere near as tainted as Bonds and others you mention. As for the 'cork'; incident , they xrayed over twenty bats he had in his locker and found nothing, The batboy claimed he gave Sosa that bat.. as for his size.. why dont you look at your picture when you were 20 and then when you were 40 , you too will dfind increase in size. Furthermore, I met Hanley Ramirez in heis roookie year (I even hired him in my fantasy team) and took a picture wihthim hten.... two years later he bulked up too... that doesnt mean steroids.. ite means better diet and better training.. thats all...... Dont be so hateful !! Sosa will be in HOF !! AS for Pete Rose, its a tough call and it hurts to see such a player be penalized for something that he did while not being in the hot corner...... however, I have no problem reconciling the punishment.... The guy was a manger and bet agaisnt his team!!!! Dream on dream on Sosa same boat as the rest of the cheaters and very few experts {sportswriters} agree with you so forget about it My daughter Yaina aka ". Chucky la Nina Diabolica " |
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