and, Atabey, please excuse me for simply mentioning that Tupapaupa is a guy who speaks his mind to truth. at no point did i attempt to examine the merits of whether or not Manny merits entry to the HOF. i know that it is difficult for you to multitask, but , in the real world, some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time. so, Tupapaupa can ventilate the mattefr about his claim to inclusion, and i can support Tupapaupa for taking a position, without supporting the position he takes. yes, Atabey,l know that this is getting really abstruse to you by now, but ask one of your adult friends to explain it.

Ah, dread still trying to play those little games. Well go throw those rocks someplace else

The matter in question is Manny's credentials for HOF consideration. As you are trying to curry the flavor of some while throwing your little rocks We adults can see very clearly where you would like this to go BTW, what about Delgado. Should he go into the HOF?

Try some other matter: how about the video on DR mistreatment of Haitians for instance? Now I think that subject would find some agreement between us

the vote is in . you were both born stupid, and practice hard at it.

Dread, dread dear Dread. Why do you get so uptight It's Spring for Heavens sake The eternal is possible Find some love and glorify the season once more

Here's a Merengue to jump start your search:






Enjoy

It was fun watching all of those home runs

Ata, yes, Roseboro, when throwing the ball back to the pitcher, was throwing too close to Marichal's ear.........

But he did NOT hit him.......

ALL Marichal had to do was tell the umpire, tell his manager or even tell Roseboro to cut it out.

If Roseboro did it again, then confront him like a man, even if a brawl "erupted"......

Not act like a criminal and hit him with a bat.

Whatever happened to fighting fair?.

So are you trying to say that even thought Roseboro didn't hit him, that Marichal had the right to even get a gun and kill him?.

I played baseball all my life, played for fun, played in teams, and I can tell you that catchers throwing the back back close to my ear was NOT unusual.......

NEVER did it cross my mind to hit them with the bat........

I did what I was supposed to do......I told the umpire first.......after telling the umpire, I called "time", walked towards my dugout and told my manager.......then my manager would go to the plate and speak to the umpire in front of the catcher..........then the umpire would call the catcher's manager and tell him what his catcher was doing. DONE!.

Once, a catcher almost hit my ear........I didn't say anything, thinking he didn't do it on purpose.......

When batting, he hit a double and since I was covering second, we met there.......he told me "how hot is your ear?, next time I will hit it".........

I told him "make sure you hit it good because after you do, I will tell my pitcher to aim at your head when batting".......

His reply: "no, no, please don't do that, I am sorry, please call off the dogs, I promise to never do it to any of your guys".........he never did.

And no, I wasn't going to tell my pitcher to aim at his head......

Bottom line, there's no excuse for what Marichal did.......

Lets supposed Roseboro hit him, STILL, Marichal shouldn't hit him with a bat..........slap him, throw punches, but never hit him with the bat.

A ball to the ear doesn't kill anybody.......a bat to the head does.

Good to see that I'm talking to an ex-player, however much below Dreads baseball exploits You still have respect for having been so. I only played up to HS level ball and mostly was a bench player

The Dominican Dandy was obviously wrong for doing this even though Roseboro provoked him. Roseboro called for a ball to the head of Marichal And when Kofax didn't oblige, he took matters into his own hand. And when Marichal complained Roseboro squared off in a fighting stance Marichal lost his cool. Those bitter rivalries were real back in those days of less than 100,000 dollar a year pay checks

Here's an interesting article.

40 years later, The Fight resonates in a positive way

Gwen Knapp
Sunday, August 21, 2005

Barbara Fouch-Roseboro can't begin to count the number of times her husband had to relive one of the ugliest moments in baseball history. In restaurants, over the phone with clients, at the hospital where he lay dying, John Roseboro couldn't escape the questions.

"People would come up to us at dinner and say 'Please tell us about the fight with Marichal,' " the catcher's widow said recently from her office in Beverly Hills. "He would always accept his responsibility for that incident. He'd say: 'I provoked it. I threw that ball too close to Juan's ear.' "

Tomorrow will be the 40th anniversary of the day that Marichal, one of the greatest pitchers of his generation, hit Roseboro with a bat, starting a 14-minute brawl between the Dodgers and Giants at Candlestick Park. The fight ended when Willie Mays crossed rivalry lines to usher a bleeding Roseboro to the Dodgers' dugout.

For both Marichal and Roseboro, though, the incident never really ended. That day, Aug. 22, 1965, defined them in caricature, Marichal as violent perpetrator and Roseboro as victim. They were neither. But famous photographs from the brawl, showing Marichal with his bat poised to strike the catcher, created an indelible image. The pictures appeared in Life magazine and can still be purchased as baseball memorabilia.

Three years ago, they were reprinted on the back of an eight-page funeral program for Roseboro. Inside the program, Marichal appears again. His name is on the list of honorary pallbearers and speakers who memorialized Roseboro.

Roseboro's "forgiving (me) was one of the best things that happened in my life,'' Marichal told the other mourners.

Over the years, the two had transcended the moment that linked them in baseball infamy. They had become friendly, genuinely respectful. In the 1980s, as a gesture of goodwill, Roseboro and his family flew to the Dominican Republic for a charity golf tournament hosted by Marichal.

"It doesn't surprise me that he would do something like that,'' said John Werhas, a former Dodger who is now a pastor in Southern California. "John Roseboro was probably as nice a human being as you'd ever meet.''

Roseboro's widow speaks almost as fondly of Marichal. "After my husband passed away, Juan would call to check up on me and my daughter every six months or so,'' she said.

Of the two, Marichal was easily the more famous. Roseboro had the batting average of a journeyman, .249 for his career. But he made four All-Star teams and won renown for his toughness, his quiet leadership and his ability to read pitchers. Those things all worked against him at Candlestick Park 40 years ago.

After Marichal had knocked down Maury Wills and Ron Fairly in the top of the third, Roseboro signaled for Sandy Koufax to retaliate in the bottom of the inning. It didn't work. "Koufax was constitutionally incapable of throwing at anyone's head,'' Roseboro wrote in his 1978 autobiography, "so I decided to take matters into my own hands.''

When Marichal came to the plate, one of Roseboro's return throws to Koufax whistled by Marichal's head. When Marichal complained, Roseboro squared off for a fight. Then ... pandemonium.

Marichal was suspended for eight games and fined $1,750. Roseboro filed a lawsuit, asking for $110,000 in damages, but settled for about $7,000. He reportedly needed 14 stitches to close the wound on his head.

The peacemaking process started when Marichal went to Los Angeles to finish his career in 1975. Roseboro, then retired, made it clear that he held no grudge, easing Marichal's transition into Dodger blue.

At some point in the late '70s, the two met at an old-timers game and, for the first time, discussed the fight.

"We shook hands,'' Roseboro wrote in the autobiography, "Glory Days with the Dodgers, and Other Days with Others,'' "and I said maybe we shouldn't because now they wouldn't have anything to write about.''

A few years later, Marichal became eligible for the Hall of Fame, but missed election on his first two ballots. Fouch-Roseboro remembers her husband talking with Marichal on the phone after the second time he was snubbed. They were concerned that memories of the fight might be standing in Marichal's way.

"John said, 'Barbara, can you believe that people are still holding this against Juan?' " she said. " 'That's not right.' "

At the time, Roseboro was helping his wife run a public-relations company, Fouch-Roseboro & Associates, that she had originally established in Atlanta. They vowed to give Marichal any help he needed. In the next year, Roseboro accepted Marichal's invitation to the Dominican, and the Hall of Fame voters accepted Marichal.

"We had a wonderful time there with Juan and his family,'' Fouch-Roseboro said. "My daughter (Morgan Nicole) went off to play with the Marichal children almost the minute we got there, and we barely saw them again the whole trip. They were having so much fun together.''

Eventually, Roseboro would return to the Dominican as manager of the Licey winter-ball team in Santo Domingo, and Marichal remembers driving over to the stadium to see him.

"We'd talk baseball,'' Marichal said last month, when he visited San Francisco for the ceremony to retire Gaylord Perry's number. "I asked him how did he like my country, and he always said very positive things.''

For obvious reasons, Marichal does not like talking about the fight. "It's not who I am,'' he said, and plenty of baseball people agree.

Fred Claire, a longtime Dodgers executive, remembers the dignified way Marichal left the game. After struggling through his first two starts as a Dodger in 1975, he asked Claire to join him on a visit to the office of team owner Peter O'Malley.

"He said, 'I can't take your money anymore if I can't pitch the way I want to,' '' Claire said. "It was remarkable. Most people would have stayed the rest of the year just for the money.''

He and Roseboro, such a spare talker that his teammates called him "Gabby, '' had a lot in common. "They were both men of great pride, and they took baseball very, very seriously,'' Claire said.

In the last years of his life, when heart trouble, two strokes and a case of prostate cancer put him in the hospital for long spells, "you never heard a word of complaint from him,'' his wife said.

He died at age 69, and his funeral drew dignitaries from many fields. Former Atlanta Mayor Maynard Jackson, former L.A. police chief Bernard Parks and retired U.S. Rep Mervyn Dymally were all listed as speakers. But no one made as much of an impression as Marichal.

When Barbara sent out word that Roseboro was dying, Marichal was one of the many former players to call and offer support. "He said he would be praying for John,'' she said. When she invited him to speak at the funeral, he didn't hesitate.

According to an account written by Claire, the emotional high point came when Marichal told the congregation: "I wish I could have had John Roseboro as my catcher.''

Koufax spoke later and turned to Marichal to say, "You would have loved pitching to John Roseboro."

I was never a bench player until I got to College...........and I was fine with it because the 2nd baseman was 50 times better.

I know the story about Roseboro "going to bat" for Marichal when the Hall made him wait.........I know they became friends........I know Roseboro said he was to be blamed........I know Roseboro went to the DR to play in Marichal's Golf Tournament.............I know all that...................

But it still doesn't make what Marichal did right.

They could've married one another for all I care.....it was still wrong and he was made to pay or it, like he should have.