#1 - Posted 5 July 2009, 9:38 PM
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nation vs. "race"
leña pal fuego!

A colonized intellectual is a person raised and educated to a high degree in the ways of the metropolis, in the language of the metropolis, and in the politics and culture of the metropolis. in other words MANY of those present here raised as Americans. but also sometimes domestics in the islands highly Westernized in their thinking.

there are three psychological stages that a colonized intellectual goes through. The first is apprenticeship. This is the stage where the colonized intellect enthusiastically believes the way forward for his people is to adopt metropolitan cultures and 'catch up'. this gives way after some disappointment to a phase of searching for 'authentic' identity of their people. this is the stage that concerns us. When they reach this stage of looking for 'real, authentic _____' many make the sad error of reaching for primitive conceptions that he has been taught (by the metropolis) are authentic expressions of his people.

a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous because of its ultimate aim: to undermine NATIONS. only concrete NATIONS, with BORDERS, LAWS and INSTITUTIONS can effect inter-generational change. The way forward, whatever your politics may be, will not be based on vague, fuzzy global notions of your fellow 'black' or 'Latino' man. the way forward is for NATIONS to crystallize, to embody strong states capable of balancing all the interests and classes composing the state, to form functioning organic political orders between families with shared pasts and shared futures.

so beware this cultural artifact brought to us by THOROUGHLY colonized intellects. pride in the antiquities of the world, including glorious Africa, is a positive thing. celebrating ethnic and racial commonalities is a positive thing. however you are not helping anyone by turning your back on your NATION, how ever that nation may have come to be. the unit of race is too basic and amorphous to build upon or to offer a foundation for your psyche:


ultimately a real tiger does not worry about celebrating his tigritude.
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#2 - Posted 5 July 2009, 9:50 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!

A colonized intellectual is a person raised and educated to a high degree in the ways of the metropolis, in the language of the metropolis, and in the politics and culture of the metropolis. in other words MANY of those present here raised as Americans. but also sometimes domestics in the islands highly Westernized in their thinking.

there are three psychological stages that a colonized intellectual goes through. The first is apprenticeship. This is the stage where the colonized intellect enthusiastically believes the way forward for his people is to adopt metropolitan cultures and 'catch up'. this gives way after some disappointment to a phase of searching for 'authentic' identity of their people. this is the stage that concerns us. When they reach this stage of looking for 'real, authentic _____' many make the sad error of reaching for primitive conceptions that he has been taught (by the metropolis) are authentic expressions of his people.

a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous because of its ultimate aim: to undermine NATIONS. only concrete NATIONS, with BORDERS, LAWS and INSTITUTIONS can effect inter-generational change. The way forward, whatever your politics may be, will not be based on vague, fuzzy global notions of your fellow 'black' or 'Latino' man. the way forward is for NATIONS to crystallize, to embody strong states capable of balancing all the interests and classes composing the state, to form functioning organic political orders between families with shared pasts and shared futures.

so beware this cultural artifact brought to us by THOROUGHLY colonized intellects. pride in the antiquities of the world, including glorious Africa, is a positive thing. celebrating ethnic and racial commonalities is a positive thing. however you are not helping anyone by turning your back on your NATION, how ever that nation may have come to be. the unit of race is too basic and amorphous to build upon or to offer a foundation for your psyche:


ultimately a real tiger does not worry about celebrating his tigritude.



Beautifully put, Hatero. The part about the cosmic cult of Negroism reminds me of something that I have read before about german and swedish anthropologists discussing about which of the two countries represent the true origin of the nordic people, the swedish claimming stressing the fact that the alpha nordic men were proto-swedish or something like that. Another example is the fact that China's name in the han language (Min Kuo) means "the country of the middle" or the "country of the center", meaning that all the countries on the earth had to pay homage to the chinese emperor and the chinese people. A clearly imperialist agenda, if you asked me.
Edited on 7/5/2009 9:55 PM by Lautaro.
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

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#3 - Posted 5 July 2009, 11:27 PM
Location: United States, Seattle, W.A.
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!

A colonized intellectual is a person raised and educated to a high degree in the ways of the metropolis, in the language of the metropolis, and in the politics and culture of the metropolis. in other words MANY of those present here raised as Americans. but also sometimes domestics in the islands highly Westernized in their thinking.

there are three psychological stages that a colonized intellectual goes through. The first is apprenticeship. This is the stage where the colonized intellect enthusiastically believes the way forward for his people is to adopt metropolitan cultures and 'catch up'. this gives way after some disappointment to a phase of searching for 'authentic' identity of their people. this is the stage that concerns us. When they reach this stage of looking for 'real, authentic _____' many make the sad error of reaching for primitive conceptions that he has been taught (by the metropolis) are authentic expressions of his people.

a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous because of its ultimate aim: to undermine NATIONS. only concrete NATIONS, with BORDERS, LAWS and INSTITUTIONS can effect inter-generational change. The way forward, whatever your politics may be, will not be based on vague, fuzzy global notions of your fellow 'black' or 'Latino' man. the way forward is for NATIONS to crystallize, to embody strong states capable of balancing all the interests and classes composing the state, to form functioning organic political orders between families with shared pasts and shared futures.

so beware this cultural artifact brought to us by THOROUGHLY colonized intellects. pride in the antiquities of the world, including glorious Africa, is a positive thing. celebrating ethnic and racial commonalities is a positive thing. however you are not helping anyone by turning your back on your NATION, how ever that nation may have come to be. the unit of race is too basic and amorphous to build upon or to offer a foundation for your psyche:


ultimately a real tiger does not worry about celebrating his tigritude.



A master piece there and that's one of the point i was trying to make with a thread about white and black supremacist a while ago. We should not allow outside insterest groups to divide how we identify we should always put nationalism over any ecthnitism for the better of eveybody because we all know that african american are starting to be more nationalist that trying to follow the african ancestors we just did the same thing they are doing now 150 years ago and are now at a point where we identify we each other as nationalist instead of splitting into ecthnic groups and starting the fight that we see in USA today between blacks and white over who lead instead of choosing the better man or woman to lead. Real nice topic here
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs"
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#4 - Posted 6 July 2009, 12:59 AM
Location: United States
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!

A colonized intellectual is a person raised and educated to a high degree in the ways of the metropolis, in the language of the metropolis, and in the politics and culture of the metropolis. in other words MANY of those present here raised as Americans. but also sometimes domestics in the islands highly Westernized in their thinking.

there are three psychological stages that a colonized intellectual goes through. The first is apprenticeship. This is the stage where the colonized intellect enthusiastically believes the way forward for his people is to adopt metropolitan cultures and 'catch up'. this gives way after some disappointment to a phase of searching for 'authentic' identity of their people. this is the stage that concerns us. When they reach this stage of looking for 'real, authentic _____' many make the sad error of reaching for primitive conceptions that he has been taught (by the metropolis) are authentic expressions of his people.

a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous because of its ultimate aim: to undermine NATIONS. only concrete NATIONS, with BORDERS, LAWS and INSTITUTIONS can effect inter-generational change. The way forward, whatever your politics may be, will not be based on vague, fuzzy global notions of your fellow 'black' or 'Latino' man. the way forward is for NATIONS to crystallize, to embody strong states capable of balancing all the interests and classes composing the state, to form functioning organic political orders between families with shared pasts and shared futures.

so beware this cultural artifact brought to us by THOROUGHLY colonized intellects. pride in the antiquities of the world, including glorious Africa, is a positive thing. celebrating ethnic and racial commonalities is a positive thing. however you are not helping anyone by turning your back on your NATION, how ever that nation may have come to be. the unit of race is too basic and amorphous to build upon or to offer a foundation for your psyche:


ultimately a real tiger does not worry about celebrating his tigritude.



HateroPardo even though my respond is attached to your
posts its not directed at you specifically,but a general statement

Lets not forget that for a nation to really
work and or move forward the different diverse
subject must be able to respect the humanity of
each other.
Without that it leaved the door of primary alliance open
to other entities other than the nation.

And how can that be achieve without education? in this kind
of world that we all happened to inherit
And what is the education going to be about? if not including
mind sets such as (racial) bigotry that will thwart the integrity of any nation?

As can be seen
some of whom responded, after their complements
they went right ahead and injected their own
one sided unbalance bias and emotions and that's it. Mind set like those doesn't
contributes to anything tangible much less a nation

Anybody who teaches that the continent Africa or any continent, were all in harmony as black men,
or any other men and monolithic, are misleading those who believed them
Edited on 7/6/2009 1:33 AM by taky1.
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#5 - Posted 6 July 2009, 1:11 AM
Location: United States
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!

A colonized intellectual is a person raised and educated to a high degree in the ways of the metropolis, in the language of the metropolis, and in the politics and culture of the metropolis. in other words MANY of those present here raised as Americans. but also sometimes domestics in the islands highly Westernized in their thinking.

there are three psychological stages that a colonized intellectual goes through. The first is apprenticeship. This is the stage where the colonized intellect enthusiastically believes the way forward for his people is to adopt metropolitan cultures and 'catch up'. this gives way after some disappointment to a phase of searching for 'authentic' identity of their people. this is the stage that concerns us. When they reach this stage of looking for 'real, authentic _____' many make the sad error of reaching for primitive conceptions that he has been taught (by the metropolis) are authentic expressions of his people.

a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous because of its ultimate aim: to undermine NATIONS. only concrete NATIONS, with BORDERS, LAWS and INSTITUTIONS can effect inter-generational change. The way forward, whatever your politics may be, will not be based on vague, fuzzy global notions of your fellow 'black' or 'Latino' man. the way forward is for NATIONS to crystallize, to embody strong states capable of balancing all the interests and classes composing the state, to form functioning organic political orders between families with shared pasts and shared futures.

so beware this cultural artifact brought to us by THOROUGHLY colonized intellects. pride in the antiquities of the world, including glorious Africa, is a positive thing. celebrating ethnic and racial commonalities is a positive thing. however you are not helping anyone by turning your back on your NATION, how ever that nation may have come to be. the unit of race is too basic and amorphous to build upon or to offer a foundation for your psyche:


ultimately a real tiger does not worry about celebrating his tigritude.



Eloquently put. Some never make it past the first step and repeatedly wish there backwards brethren could just "America" it up quickly. Some members of my family fall into this category, of course the ones born in the States. Others look back on either the Trujillo regime or his crony. Then others just don't care.
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#6 - Posted 6 July 2009, 8:13 AM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
taky1 previously said:


As can be seen
some of whom responded, after their complements
they went right ahead and injected their own
one sided unbalance bias and emotions and that's it. Mind set like those doesn't
contributes to anything tangible much less a nation


Anybody who teaches that the continent Africa or any continent, were all in harmony as black men,
or any other men and monolithic, are misleading those who believed them


Show me in what part of my analysis I have "went right ahead and injected my own one sided unbalace bias and emotions and that's it". The only thing that I did was to show that the proponents of pan-africanism or cosmic negroism haven't been the only ones to come up with their own theory of the "alpha human group" from which all the others came from, cuz' every single nation on this earth have indulged at one time or another in the effort to paint itself as more special and divine gifted than the others, it's a human thing. Geez man, can't you just get away from the supremacist thinking for once? If you have got some beef with Belly's opinion, address him directly, but don't get me involved in your fist fights, cuz' I'm tired of having to deal with your finger pointing shenanigans.
Edited on 7/6/2009 9:36 AM by Lautaro.
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

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#7 - Posted 6 July 2009, 8:19 AM
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Wack Wack again !
My daughter Yaina aka ". Chucky la Nina Diabolica "
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#8 - Posted 6 July 2009, 9:34 AM
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!



a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous




supposedly in harmony - right - the reality is the tribes were killing each other off for thousands of years
Wrongdoers eagerly listen to gossip; liars pay close attention to slander.
Proverbs 17:4


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#9 - Posted 6 July 2009, 9:44 AM
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
cabaretewilliam previously said:

Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

leña pal fuego!



a dangerous form of this primitivism is what we will call the cosmic cult of Negroism. This vague notion asks us to look back indiscriminately to a mythical, fuzzy conception of the continent Africa, where we were all supposedly in harmony as black men, and whose monolithic culture will offer us unity across borders. this idea is dangerous




supposedly in harmony - right - the reality is the tribes were killing each other off for thousands of years


No need to point out the obvious. Besides, the bloodiest conflicts in recorded history occured among the European peoples themselves. They even managed to drag the whole world into a few of their melees. European history in general is extremely violent.
Edited on 7/6/2009 9:47 AM by cibaeño75.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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#10 - Posted 6 July 2009, 10:09 AM
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RE: nation vs. "race"
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:


Beautifully put, Hatero. The part about the cosmic cult of Negroism reminds me of something that I have read before about german and swedish anthropologists discussing about which of the two countries represent the true origin of the nordic people, the swedish claimming stressing the fact that the alpha nordic men were proto-swedish or something like that. Another example is the fact that China's name in the han language (Min Kuo) means "the country of the middle" or the "country of the center", meaning that all the countries on the earth had to pay homage to the chinese emperor and the chinese people. A clearly imperialist agenda, if you asked me.


thanks for the compliment Lautaro. I wasn't sure how to understand your comment but you clarified in a later comment that it was an example of others engaging in similar kinds of thinking.

I would say however that the case for the Europeans is different. they are well past their national moments, their nations were born, had their glories, and in a few cases are entering old age. so many Europeans are ready to move on to a higher order of organization, perhaps based on race or a larger geography, or something new. in other words they can take the option of a 'cosmic' identification because they already enjoy the bounties of having been crystallized nation-states, so they can afford to undermine nationalism.

the post-colonials that went through the transaction across the Atlantic are still going though this stage. because certain aspects off our heritage were so methodically repressed it is no surprise many of us are eager to shine spotlights on those elements…however per my piece above we need to understand that each island and each nation draws in different ways from huge, diverse Africa.
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