I could see this working since given the history of village-al Trades and Countries before times have done given Old Greece and others Empires like it.

It´s an acceptable solution, considering that they share part of the blame for the current mess, with the pressure that they have put on our countries to pay the fricking foreign debt and to accept the neoliberal policies dictated from Washington and the Paris Club.

Well said and those are often my sentiments toward other Dominicans (not all), but like I perhaps never seem to precise on over enough and to indicate... It is not all Dominicans or DR's Dominicans who are like that or are mostly projecting their racist views as much on the issues, but rather they Dominicans living abroad showing a two faced bladed knife where they are living the good life here in the USA yet pressing for conservative restrictions reforms in DR meanwhile demanding for those same basic rights here in the USA that they are pushing for to deny Haitians in DR. I have lived in DR and the majority populace in a sense are not that extreme and radical in views and those Dominicans in DR are way more laid back to one day accept Haitians as equal since I see it first hand that in the Bateys of Sosua, Puerto Plata and Banao Haitians and Dominicans get along just fine even though yes indeed at times it is done with slight hypocrisy and knowledge of the resentments.

DR is not developed to handle illegal immigration. The basic services of health care, education, jobs, etc are not readily avaliable to the majority of the population. THings are changing but overall the majority of the nation is unskilled and competing for the same unskill jobs Haitians are doing. As a result, Haitians are a burden in the sense that they are taking jobs from Dominicans b/c the pay scale is lower. In the U.S., it's different b/c the country is better equipped to handle the immigration. THe DR is "developing" but has a long way to go. There is opportunities in DR but it's limited right now and the poor masses are competing with the illegal Haitians.

Illegal immigration is wrong. I recently had an uncle deported to DR b/c he didn't have papers. This man has four kids, paid taxes, and worked to provide for his family. I was upset he was deported for being illegal especially after he paid taxes like citizens do. So he was reporting and not hiding out like many do. Just a double standardt of American hyprocrity. However, the laws are in place to re-patriate all illegals which I understand are to be followed. When this came up, I started to reflect on why he left in the first place and that was b/c of the lack of opportunities in DR. The real problem is that countries are not providing for its ppl which forces a mass illegal immigration by those seeking a better life. Mexicans move to the US and Haitians to DR. The real problem Jabao is that Haiti is not providing for its people and Haitians should demand more and create a movement for better opportunities.

The dispora should always be allowed to represent where they are from regardless of where they live. It's as simple as that.

As far as papers goes or birth certificates, DR is sufficently deficient on providing papers to its people. It's not only Dominicans of Haitian descent that suffer from such problem its a general issue for all Dominicans.

[QUOTE=ny4life]
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[QUOTE=ny4life]
[QUOTE=JabaoHaitian]
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[B]DR is not developed to handle illegal immigration. The basic services of health care, education, jobs, etc are not readily avaliable to the majority of the population. THings are changing but overall the majority of the nation is unskilled and competing for the same unskill jobs Haitians are doing. As a result, Haitians are a burden in the sense that they are taking jobs from Dominicans b/c the pay scale is lower. In the U.S., it's different b/c the country is better equipped to handle the immigration. THe DR is "developing" but has a long way to go. There is opportunities in DR but it's limited right now and the poor masses are competing with the illegal Haitians. [/B]

Indeed DR is not a developed country and the developments that are there due to cheap labour provided no other than the haitiano. Not to long ago the same people that reported haitians deported were asking the government to recruit haitians due to lack of people to pick the harvest. Dude, illegal haitians are indirectly put food in the dominicans mouth everyday. They are the one harvesting and maintaining the poultry and other basics that dominicans need to function. I think you haven't took into consideration the contribution of the illegal immigration.

Now it does come with some price and measures to curtail illegal immigration is mandatory to keep things in perspective. I think DR both parties have benefited and need to regulate things so that it won't actually cause the things you've mention above. Many haitians work and aren't paid or sometimes reported for deportation because the empresas don't want to pay. They get hurt on the job and have no social security to take care of them nor their family..Imagine being illegal in the DR looking for work..I can't nor can you..that's rolling a bad dice..but unfortunately these people are making the best of what they have.


[B]Illegal immigration is wrong. I recently had an uncle deported to DR b/c he didn't have papers. This man has four kids, paid taxes, and work to provide for his family. I was upset he was deported for being illegal especially after he paid taxes like citizens do. So he was reporting and not finidng out like many do. Just a double start of American hyprocrity However, the laws are in place to re-patriate all illegals which I understand are to be followed. When this came up I started to reflect on why he left in the first place and that was b/c of the lack of opportunities in DR. The real problem is that countries are not providing for its ppl which forces a mass illegal immigration by those seeking a better life. Mexicans moving to the US and Haitians to DR. [COLOR=#ED1C24]The real problem Jabao is that Haiti is not providing for its people and Haitians should demand more and create a movement for better opportunities.[/COLOR]
The dispora should always be allowed to represent where they are from regardless of where they live. It's as simple as that.

As far as papers goes or birth certificates, DR is sufficently deficient on providing papers to its people. It's not only Dominicans of Haitian descent that suffer from such problem its a general issue for all Dominicans. [/B]

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Illegal immigration is wrong but b4 criticising walk in their shoes. I am sorry to hear your Uncle getting deported although he paid his taxes. I can imagine the trauma this has caused for his family. I know you would think I would say good..but la vida es redonda. We can sit her and bash him but I respect this man for taking a stand and doing something whether in the long run it might hurt him but hunger doesn't wait for future or well thought out plans. The above in read, well que te puedo decir..Guilty as charge and I agree with you one hundred percent. The haitian government is responsible and the NGO's stirring this campaign for sitting playing referee rather than do something. If you only knew what rage I get into due to the fustration of my government. I ask you and all dominicans to join in the campaign to pressure the NGO's and haitians in government you care about their pocket to step up or step out..el pobre haitiano working to survive is a double victim..jodido by his government and on foreign soil.. When ever you come down b4 snapping a picture hear the stories of construction who actually built it and ask them why the ended up in the DR and just getting the job done..God bless ur uncle and his family hope he had some money saved to invest in the DR and get him on his feet..

NYforLife you are brilliant. Great answer!

I am sure they could have thought of that themselves perfectly, if they have ever been to the DR and are not blind, but it seems you really have to explain everything in here...

Haitians that are seeking opportunities abroad should do as do Dominicans and try to emigrate to the West! To Europe, Canada, US etc. By aiming to emigrate to the DR both them and the DR will be worse off.

Buenoha,


I am still waiting for your rebuttal regarding my post directed at you. I think you are right though that haitians should try to go to N.America and Europe. I think we should all go down to the border and make picket signs directing them the other way or straight thru DR to catch a yola to Puerto Rico along with dominicans. Let's no get into Puerto Rico dominicans have flooded that place..I even saw a dominican flag at a colmado a big one..A haitian national would have some explaining to do if he rose his flag on dominican soil...They hypocrisy of some here is hilarious..Why not you explain to us how to get to the Dutch antilles and safe to Netherlands. Sounds like a plan to me..Dude, don't forget that majority of the dominicans that live where you live were illegal at one time in the Dutch Antilles. How soon we forget the stumblign blocks when we are making "euros" and aren't illegal. Another thing I might add is there is another aspect on how dominican government is making money due to haitian migration. Haitians in the DR that have parents or family members sending them money. You guys are so stuck in your little bubble and refuse to be objective. Such is life.

Dear haitian forista. Please stop asking about the personal life of other foristas. This is not a place to discuss personal life history, since we are discussing greater issues.

I suggest you all try to get some higher education (go to university!) if you have not yet done it sofar. A more scientific approach to issues would do you guys a lot of good. You are always making assumptions about everything and everybody, and you speak in an emotional way, not a rational one. Before claiming to make a sound statement you should study the field and find acceptable evidence for yourself or base your comments on evidence from other studies.

You speak of the Antilles. Never been there.
You speak of illegality: never been one.

I can advice you to stop asking personal questions which do not contribute to the discussion in any way.

Buenoha,

Dominican that doesn't live in the DR and living better off in the Netherlands. I am not trying to get into your personal history rather trying to make you see things when it hit close to home. I am not speaking emotionally rather can say the same for you. I respect your opinions and would like to discuss this in a that fashion without personal attacks. Now lets get real, dominicans living in the Netherlands weren't invited and the most likely way was via Dutch Antilles illegally. I have been to St. Martin/St marteen and between dominicans and haitians I was scavaging to find a native there. I am sure the natives are pissed that there identity is practically gone... It isn't easy to talk without thinking when your own people are in precarious position as the one you vehemently oppose in your beloved country that you left behind looking for a better opportunity that your government didn't give you.


Let's discuss this or you can stay stuck in your ways and never realise how lucky you are to be in the Netherlands. The reality of things is it's hard to talk when you point figures at others and not at yourself. I thank God I wasn't born in a family that didn't have the means to provide for me. I think my lucky stars that I wasn't born poor.

Again thank you sir and look forward to hearing you P.O.V. while looking amongst your people as a group that migrate as much to other third world countries and hopefully get to where you are in nice cozy Netherlands. Haitians and Dominicans in the DR envy you and wish they were in your place. Take care sir. May God bless you..