You missed Cibaeño's point, Hispanolano. What he's talking about is that the haitian elites use the same mechanisms that their dominican counterparts are using when deciding if they'll accept or not a potential candidate into their "inner circle", for example, if the potential candidate have a foreign sounding last name, if he's light skinned enough, if he has enough cuartos, etc. Got the point?

Basically what I believe Hispanolo is trying to say is that in Haiti, those that dislike the elite (mostly the poor which are black) dislike them because of the arrogance that they've shown dating back from the post revolutionary period to now. Because the elite is overwhelmingly composed of light-skinned individuals (mulattos and whites), the black mass often associate being a mulatto as having wealth and therefore being arrogant and looking down at the less fortunate. Of course not all of the wealthy in Haiti are like that and not all are exclusively mulatto or white but for the most part that's the way it is. Haitians of Arab descent (mostly Lebanese and Syrian) are an ethnic group that have had made great bounds and successes in commerce and industry propelling the once very poor immigrant group to wealth and status within the country. They were even looked down upon by the mulatto and white Haitians that had much longer roots in the country. After such success they began intermarrying with the formerly very selective elite class and "diluted" (as some say) the "pure" bloodline of the original aristocracy (many claimed French ancestry). In fact many wealthy Haitian businesspeople are of non-black and non-French ancestry ranging from German to Danish. In Haiti there is some racial tension but it has pretty much died down over time as the mulatto and white Haitians (wealthy) began to marry black Haitians and black Haitians began to accumulate great personal wealth as well. Foreigners (expatriates from Spanish-speaking countries for example) that started business in Haiti were often accepted into the elite (I believe I answered your question Cibaeno) and over time they acquired citizenship and assimilated into that social class. Both concepts of racism and classism therefore are intricately tied together when discussing Haiti and its history. On another note..the very rich in Haiti often have excellent connections to the very rich in the DR. There's an example of friendly bi-national relations!

[QUOTE=JabaoHaitian]
[You know what, you are right... But gosh darn it, quit calling me "Jesus" (lol)!!! By the way, I wanted to tell you it was not that I did not understand what you meant in your slang spanish, it simply just irked my nerves when people do in any language. Be it Creole, French, Spanish or English... but I mean, I understand the feel for wanting to use slang given the flow of lingo and so forth in terms of wit and humor within expressions. I simply wanted to know why you do it, why you use contractions when that is something more often done so by actual spanish speaking natives, you dig...? Hell from now on I will speak slang too, darn it!!!

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Jesus!!!!! Jesus, you're still stuck on that thread. You probably still trying to figure it out..I can see you looking up in your Larousse French/Spanish dictionary and perplex that you still can't grasp what I said..lol... Dude, you are so so haitian it isn't funny...lol...not saying your not part dominican but you sure think like a typical haitian...although a crazy one I cant believe your still on that...have one these guys translate for you..Anyway, I've been speaking spanish for a long time(lived in two spanish speaking countries). I even confuse natives so it is natural for me to flow like a native..btw, don't confuse slang with incorrect spanish..too different things..and you have to know when to talk like that..a language is alive and needs breathing room at times for humour and expression. Didnt you learn that...those are due to your education in Haiti that have you speak all rigid and no life...lol..ok let me stop bugging u.. If you want, I will write in castellano and use vosotros since we were taught that in school in haiti...Take heed to my advice..ok..na pale broder..and respect Hay..

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Shoot, I wish I had a Larousse Dictionary... Hey that is the Dictionary I used to use in school when I was in Haiti long long ago (lol)! There is nothing wrong with Larousse now (I resent that). I am so Haitian as I am so Dominican and never have denied having been.

I said I was born in Haiti, all the difference that you seem to be having a problem is as most Haitian tend to do is that they want me to deny that my mother is Dominican which I will not do or they want me to pretend that I am not part Dominican. Prime example, my sister is born in Campo, DR and loves Haiti like no other Dominican or Haitian can ever do and she consider herself just Dominican... Now her and I are of same mother, same father... should I hold that against her, too? (Even though I fight over this with her all the time when I want to give her hell much like you are to me right now lol). Okay, like I said I have given you the benefit of the doubt that I said it was usually a way that Spanish Natives actually do speak spanish when I see that your profile says you are possibly in Haiti. I wanted to know how was it so that you were speaking it in terms that Actual spanish speaking natives do is all. Calm down! I never say it was incorrect, I pinpointed to you that it was slanged and not everybody can understand slang any languages as yo may assume.

Hell, you have Natural born Dominicans 100% who cannot understand any slang written spanish much like a lot of people are still not use to Computer or texting lingo, you dig. but hey, speak vajitos all you want man... Peace!

Hispanolano by your definitions the racism of Dominicans is revolutionary, or at least has been at some point in time.

Also seeing as the "battlefield" of this dispute is the arena of low wage jobs, and the economic stature of those being discriminated against, Dominican racism is as much class-based as not. I have difficulty with you calling it more race based than class based given that one can find plenty of lower class dark-skinned Dominicans who gladly would join in the anti-Haitian discrimination. In fact such Dominicans stand to gain the most from anti-Haitian discrimination. Like most things in the final analysis, this is all more economic than not.

I know I have wasted my breath Hispanolano because you will not give your fellow Dominicans (not even your relatives) the benefit of any doubt since you are more interested in condemnation. This is why you come up with categories for the same sins; to excuse one and not the other. This much everyone has agreed on: both places have very similar and deep-seated problems in the realms of development, race and class. Really that is all that needs to be said...unless of course one is having fun playing the game of pointing fingers. Then part of the fun is setting up these categories to say 'this racism is worse than that racism". Well it is good fun but again in the final analysis this is all more economic than not

CASH RULES!

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I think that had to do with the purges that Duvalier did against the old elite, the surviving remnants being given the following choice by him: accept us, the noirist nouveau riches as your equals, or perish with the rest of your brethen. Obviously, they had to bow down or suffer the consequences. It certainly mirrors Trujillo's reprisals against the aristocracy of Santo Domingo, in the fact that these would meet with the same fate, although with a twist: these would get their revenge by assassinating him on may 30th, 1961.

".

Thank you... and you are right. I got the point, but I wanted to show him that I was not taking out the racial divide that purely exist between us two Nations.. But yeah, I got your point Cibaeno.

Hey Lautaro, have not seen much of you on the Filosofia Thread or the Conspiracy Thread.. Comon man, you know those sites need you there. I sent you an invite, have you gotten it?

It was my way of leaving this high tensed thread alone or to take a break for it. My surprise is to tell people of my Las Vegas, Alien encounter if they want to know about it.

You can say that again. That is why I am trying to most people both Dominicans and Haitians or most of the people around the world to stop buying in the inherited notions of the Great Divide and Conquer most White Europeans have left for us to deal with with those made up differences. Thus de verdad as you have or do put it Cibaeno, CASH RULES and to add the roots of all evil.