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#31 - Posted 25 September 2009, 3:05 PM
cibaeño75
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RE: Coup D'Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
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generoso previously said:

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cibaeño75 previously said:

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generoso previously said:

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Belly previously said:

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generoso previously said:

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HateroPardo previously said:

I recently re-watched the Fortunato documentary on Balaguer. Though Bosch is not the focus the video does remind of some of his political missteps. Generoso mentioned his absence in the 66 campaign, and then there was also the business of 'dictatorship with popular appeal'. I've said many times on here that Bosch's history books are great. They have been very useful to me as a sort of Dominican 'in exile' like himself. But the more I learn about him the more he seems like the stereotypical intellectual who lacks in the political pragmatism department, and at times was too closely tied to an abstract theory.


Like his present disciple Leonel Fernandez. Great theoretician and intellectual, professorial type, but divorced with governing "hands on". Bosch did not have the skills and savvy to deal with the intrigue of the post Trujillo military, and "El Jefe's" ghost was always present.
Also the military had a strange infatuation with their previous cacique, Trujillo, and his son Ramfis was still alive and kicking, influencing Dominican politics, from his golden exile in Europe.
In my opinion Bosch greatest blunder, was not to purge the Trujillo military like was expected of him, after his inauguration, with all the heads of state present, including vice president of the USA, Lyndon Johnson. In not doing a purge and a military chess game, a la Guzmán, he left his enemies at liberty to conspire against him.
As much as I admire and enjoy reading his books, and personally think that he was a man with many great human qualities, I am convinced that he did not have enough "nerve" or testicular fortitude, to sit in the presidential chair, being more comfortable and at ease, in a safer environment surrounded by his books.



Totally agree with your statement Generoso Bosch was a great man but just like Leonel Fernandez they don't have the guts to stand up and let others know who really is the boss. Leonel has done great things and plays a chess game that is sort of working but DR need a president with a good chess game and the guts to back it up against the status quo that exist in this country of ours. I know is not possible to fix 80 years of corrupted generations of polititians but maybe Leonel can learn something from Celso Manzarini. Leonel just like Bosch talked the talked but didn't walk the walk. Balaguer was a master at what he did and had the guts to defend his own opinion even thoguh it was not the best option for the country. Bosch was a great Dominican but not the man DR was needing after a dictator like EL JEFE

That little man Joaquin Balaguer had steel balls and was not impressed by any DR military, which he ridiculed most of the time, and kept as ignorant and unschooled as he could.
Never forget how he had a live TV confrontation and tete a tete with General Wessin, and how he publicly humiliated the former San Isidro strong man.




I would love to view a recording of that now famous confrontation..any idea how to go about it?? Or maybe someone has it and can post it for us?? C'mon! Let's have a few laughs at Wessin's expense! LOL

I saw right here in DT, I think it is in youtube.



I can't find it...if anybody comes across it I'd appreciate it if you post it.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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#32 - Posted 25 September 2009, 4:38 PM
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RE: Coup D'Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
Wow, very interesting. I am learning much guys, please continue. Or even go back further in history.

This is perhaps one of the best threads, I hope the trolls stay away.

Thank You!!!

Siempre es bueno aprender algo nuevo de mi patria, desafortunadamente fui y si sigo siendo educado en EEUU, y como ya sabes la unica historia que cuenta y les importa es la de aqui, haci que muchas gracias. Tambien si pueden recomendar algunos libros que no son muy "partisan" para yo leer, y si son en ingles lo prefiero por que leo lo muy lento en espanol.
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#33 - Posted 25 September 2009, 5:22 PM
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RE: Coup D'Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
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generoso previously said:


46 Years ago today marks the anniversary of the military removing from power the first democratically elected, civilian government after the long (31 years) dictatorship of Generalissimo Rafael Trujillo, alias "El Jefe" to his sycophants and "Chapita" to his detractors.
Some historians say that Juán Bosch felt uncomfortable and ambivalent, in his role as president, and wanted to resign. Others felt that he wanted the military to overthrow him to return with more power.
One thing is for sure though, he was hesitant and timid to return to the country, after his removal from office, from his exile in Puerto Rico, even after the constitutionalist forces achieved victory, during the civil war.
When an airplane was gassed up and ready to make the short 35 minute flight from San Juan To Santo Domingo, Juan Bosch claimed that "the plane was too small", and sent coronel Fernandez Dominguez instead.
Even after his return to DR after the revolution, he refused to step outside his quarters to tour the country, and campaign for the elections of 1966, that he lost against Joaquin Balaguer, who had the support of the occupation forces.
After his election defeat in 1966, he left the country again to return to his life in exile as a world class writer and story teller.
Had political events and democracy in DR, not reverted to a neo-Trujillismo under Balaguer, and the repression and murders that followed not happened, if he had acted like deposed president Zelaya, and fought for his return at any costs?



I think I am probably one of the few in this forum who thinks it was better for the country without Bosch even though I understand all the nostalgias that come with him. With his view of the world there was no way any way you look at it unless he had the support Soviet Union he would had stay in power. I also believe it was a blessing that he was a lefty in a suit ala Salvador Allende and not some guerrillero. The 60's was a turbulent times when at the height of the cold war the world was at the verge of total annihilation. Bosch playing with Marxist agenda in your face especially right after the Cuban revolution was a big time NO. He had two choice either to come in with COJONES like Fidel, Lenin, Mao ECT or retire when thing get hot. He chooses to retire. Even in the 70's when people started to see thing differently after the "good" example of Cuba, Soviet Union, China, ECT the man was still an Marxist at heart when he came up with the new PLD party.
"Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain. "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery" Churchill
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#34 - Posted 25 September 2009, 10:08 PM
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RE: Coup de Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
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generoso previously said:

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cyberdragon previously said:

I heard the CIA and FBI were involved in his o'erthrow.


Most likely the US military advisors at the time (the turbulent 60's before the Kennedy assassination), were an influence, and probably the CIA station chief at the US embassy in DR, who did not like the Bosch rhetoric and his courtship with leftist parties, and was relaying a lot of misinformation to DC.
But as far as direct involvement, the Dominican military were the ones who pulled the trigger on Bosch.


Yes, The CIA and the US presidency had direct involvement. The CIA and U.S. have had Involvement in Most if not all Coups in the western Hemisphere....

The Book Rag-Tag, Scum, Riff-Raff and Commies by Eric Thomas Chester states that the CIA had direct involvement... The Author also researched declassified papers and proves that Balaguers election in 1966 was rigged by the US.

The New Documentary "which I can not find out on DVD" By Rene Fortunato states that one of the Dominican Generals "Air force" that was involved in the coup had visited the U.S. sometime before the coup..

I have heard that but can not confirm that Wessin Had School of the Americas Training and we all know what that means.


There are people on this site that may or may not be Dominican ...whom would like to distort the truth!!!!!!

If you do not want to believe me then ask me where I got the information or how I came to the Conclusion.

Edited on 9/25/2009 10:21 PM by chillaxin201.
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#35 - Posted 25 September 2009, 10:10 PM
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RE: Coup de Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
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#36 - Posted 25 September 2009, 10:19 PM
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RE: Coup de Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
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#37 - Posted 26 September 2009, 6:23 AM
generoso
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RE: Coup D'Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
Belly previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
HateroPardo previously said:

I recently re-watched the Fortunato documentary on Balaguer. Though Bosch is not the focus the video does remind of some of his political missteps. Generoso mentioned his absence in the 66 campaign, and then there was also the business of 'dictatorship with popular appeal'. I've said many times on here that Bosch's history books are great. They have been very useful to me as a sort of Dominican 'in exile' like himself. But the more I learn about him the more he seems like the stereotypical intellectual who lacks in the political pragmatism department, and at times was too closely tied to an abstract theory.


Like his present disciple Leonel Fernandez. Great theoretician and intellectual, professorial type, but divorced with governing "hands on". Bosch did not have the skills and savvy to deal with the intrigue of the post Trujillo military, and "El Jefe's" ghost was always present.
Also the military had a strange infatuation with their previous cacique, Trujillo, and his son Ramfis was still alive and kicking, influencing Dominican politics, from his golden exile in Europe.
In my opinion Bosch greatest blunder, was not to purge the Trujillo military like was expected of him, after his inauguration, with all the heads of state present, including vice president of the USA, Lyndon Johnson. In not doing a purge and a military chess game, a la Guzmán, he left his enemies at liberty to conspire against him.
As much as I admire and enjoy reading his books, and personally think that he was a man with many great human qualities, I am convinced that he did not have enough "nerve" or testicular fortitude, to sit in the presidential chair, being more comfortable and at ease, in a safer environment surrounded by his books.



Totally agree with your statement Generoso Bosch was a great man but just like Leonel Fernandez they don't have the guts to stand up and let others know who really is the boss. Leonel has done great things and plays a chess game that is sort of working but DR need a president with a good chess game and the guts to back it up against the status quo that exist in this country of ours. I know is not possible to fix 80 years of corrupted generations of polititians but maybe Leonel can learn something from Celso Manzarini. Leonel just like Bosch talked the talked but didn't walk the walk. Balaguer was a master at what he did and had the guts to defend his own opinion even thoguh it was not the best option for the country. Bosch was a great Dominican but not the man DR was needing after a dictator like EL JEFE

That little man Joaquin Balaguer had steel balls and was not impressed by any DR military, which he ridiculed most of the time, and kept as ignorant and unschooled as he could.
Never forget how he had a live TV confrontation and tete a tete with General Wessin, and how he publicly humiliated the former San Isidro strong man.




I would love to view a recording of that now famous confrontation..any idea how to go about it?? Or maybe someone has it and can post it for us?? C'mon! Let's have a few laughs at Wessin's expense! LOL

I saw right here in DT, I think it is in youtube.



I can't find it...if anybody comes across it I'd appreciate it if you post it.


Maybe yumnuk3 can help. I remember I saw it a couple of years ago in the net. It was a long video with several parts, and had the whole TV program, first aired on June 30, 1971 on Radio Televisión Dominicana.
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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#38 - Posted 26 September 2009, 9:22 AM
generoso
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RE: Coup de Etat- Against Juan Bosch- 25 September 1963-
Quote:
chillaxin201 previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
cyberdragon previously said:

I heard the CIA and FBI were involved in his o'erthrow.


Most likely the US military advisors at the time (the turbulent 60's before the Kennedy assassination), were an influence, and probably the CIA station chief at the US embassy in DR, who did not like the Bosch rhetoric and his courtship with leftist parties, and was relaying a lot of misinformation to DC.
But as far as direct involvement, the Dominican military were the ones who pulled the trigger on Bosch.


Yes, The CIA and the US presidency had direct involvement. The CIA and U.S. have had Involvement in Most if not all Coups in the western Hemisphere....

The Book Rag-Tag, Scum, Riff-Raff and Commies by Eric Thomas Chester states that the CIA had direct involvement... The Author also researched declassified papers and proves that Balaguers election in 1966 was rigged by the US.

The New Documentary "which I can not find out on DVD" By Rene Fortunato states that one of the Dominican Generals "Air force" that was involved in the coup had visited the U.S. sometime before the coup..




I can only say one thing chill: See the video and take your medication please, your are trying to hijack my thread with your paranoiac delusions. (Play the twilight zone music, tim li din din, tin lin din lin).


You can now go back to your empty (0 replies) thread............
Edited on 9/27/2009 7:15 AM by generoso.
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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