| #1 - Posted 23 June 2008, 1:59 AM | |
Location: Zimbabwe Join date: March 2008 Member #: 556 Posts: 242 | All Great Civilizations Had Them Greek Gods, Haitian Gods, Roman Gods Zeus = Damballa = Jupiter Poseidon = Agwé = Neptune Hades = Baron Samedi = Pluto Hestia = Ayida-Weddo = Vesta Hera = Erzulie = Juno Ares = Ogoun = Mars Athena = Oya = Minerva Apollo = Maîtresse Délai = Apollo Aphrodite = Oshun = Venus Hermes = Papa Legba = Mercury Artemis = Loko = Diana Hephaestus = Ogoun = Vulcan Other Gods Demeter = Kouzin = Ceres Persephone = Manman Brijit = Proserpine Dionysus = Sousson-Pannan = Bacchus "Every Great Civilization Had Them So Do We" While you might think Haitian Voodoo is bad and malefic well the poor educated ones always do think that. Did you know that the Haitian deities are no different from the Greek's and the Romans' as anyone would tell you "Okay maybe not anyone could tell you because most people don't know that the Sumerian's are one of the earliest civilizations in the world. I will begin by saying that the Myths must have started in Sumer "Mesopotamia" then it migrated to Africa "Ancient Egypt" then from Africa to the Helladics "Ancient Greece" from Greece to China then to Rome etc... You get the point so each great civilizations influences its predecessor. The names of the principal gods often changes but their title and functions always remains the same. Okay I'm not here to give you a History lesson but my point is why Haitian myths are villainfy while the Greek's and the Roman's gods are glorified as if they were much different from ours. In fact they are all the same exact characters with the same agendas. The gods are simply worshiped by different cultures by sometimes different ethnic groups the people changes but the gods stays the same. Our every day lifes are influenced by the gods of the ancient world our days, months etc...have all carried the gods names throughout all civilizations. To say that Haitian Myths or Haitian Voodoo is Bad while glorifying the Greek's Voodoo or the Roman's Voodoo is pure hypocrisy. Take "Zeus" for instance which in Greek mythology is the king of the gods, the ruler of Mount Olympus and the god of the sky and thunder. Zeus becomes Jupiter In Roman mythology, Jupiter held the same role as Zeus in the Greek myth. In Vodou, Damballa is one of the most important of all the loa. He is also the father of all the rest of the loa and is considered to be the loa of creation. In Egyptian Myth this character is called Amun and guess what hes function was? Yes the same as Zeus, Jupiter, Damballa, Odin etc... "Leader of the mythical Gods. Get it people So the next time you start thinking negatively about Haitians and their Voodoo gods please do include the rest of the world's myths because we didn't create them we simply inherited them from the previous civilizations. |
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| #2 - Posted 23 June 2008, 8:46 AM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 371 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them I think this is not about whether it is Haitian or not. In general in society there is disdain for all pagan religions. The Greek pantheon and all its versions are respected only as children's tales to illustrate the ancient Greeks...but anyone who professes belief in wicca, paganism of any sort (not just voodoo) is generally looked at as atavistic. |
| #3 - Posted 23 June 2008, 9:29 AM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano Join date: June 2008 Member #: 944 Posts: 191 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Manhattanite previously said: I think this is not about whether it is Haitian or not. In general in society there is disdain for all pagan religions. The Greek pantheon and all its versions are respected only as children's tales to illustrate the ancient Greeks...but anyone who professes belief in wicca, paganism of any sort (not just voodoo) is generally looked at as atavistic. Yet I have never hear or see Greece and greeks getting a bad reputation for their beliefs, but Haitians do... Why is that? I am not much of a voodoo fan, but I do know that before Christianity it was at least or nonetheless the traditional way of live for most Africans before slavery. Catholicism is indeed the closest thing you could get to Paganism as both religion took turns several times and periods of ruling over the other until Constantine's last call for the a modified gospel which is known today as the very bible christians are using. The Bible as we know it, well maybe not all of us know it, but for those who do... the bible was a put together book as well as it is incomplete. Something most Christians do not want to hear, belief and dare to even utter. However sorry to say it is true. Do you know how the Bible was "put together"? Yes, put together... Constantine called upon all the great priests of that time, mostly all Christians and indeed, believe it or not, Pagan priests and ordered them to remain in a room until they could come up with an uncontested, indisputable version of a bible to put a stop to all the nonsense back and forth coups ruling and persecutions of both Catholicism and Paganism. It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. However, it is believed that, as many say that Judas actually saved Jesus the harshest possible punishment from the Romans which was the fact that they could have tarnished his image for the known history of the world could have had perhaps different views and opinions of him today. So I read from this called POWER OF KNOWLEDGE. What do you guys think about that notion? Edited on 6/23/2008 9:31 AM by Consuello. |
| #4 - Posted 23 June 2008, 9:36 AM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 1154 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Consuello previously said: Quote: Manhattanite previously said: I think this is not about whether it is Haitian or not. In general in society there is disdain for all pagan religions. The Greek pantheon and all its versions are respected only as children's tales to illustrate the ancient Greeks...but anyone who professes belief in wicca, paganism of any sort (not just voodoo) is generally looked at as atavistic. Yet I have never hear or see Greece and greeks getting a bad reputation for their beliefs, but Haitians do... Why is that? I am not much of a voodoo fan, but I do know that before Christianity it was at least or nonetheless the traditional way of live for most Africans before slavery. Catholicism is indeed the closest thing you could get to Paganism as both religion took turns several times and periods of ruling over the other until Constantine's last call for the a modified gospel which is known today as the very bible christians are using. The Bible as we know it, well maybe not all of us know it, but for those who do... the bible was a put together book as well as it is incomplete. Something most Christians do not want to hear, belief and dare to even utter. However sorry to say it is true. Do you know how the Bible was "put together"? Yes, put together... Constantine called upon all the great priests of that time, mostly all Christians and indeed, believe it or not, Pagan priests and ordered them to remain in a room until they could come up with an uncontested, indisputable version of a bible to put a stop to all the nonsense back and forth coups ruling and persecutions of both Catholicism and Paganism. It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. However, it is believed that, as many say that Judas actually saved Jesus the harshest possible punishment from the Romans which was the fact that they could have tarnished his image for the known history of the world could have had perhaps different views and opinions of him today. So I read from this called POWER OF KNOWLEDGE. What do you guys think about that notion? Maybe the greeks are not attacked by the sole fact that their nation is considered by the western "intelligentsia" as being the craddle of the western civilization. The proof of this is that the current canons for what is beautiful in architectural style, works of art, and yes, physical beauty in the western world, all stem from the patterns set in Ancient Greece (before being "tainted" by the admixtures produced by the muslim/turkish conquest after the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire in 1453). The haitians, like the palestinians and other muslims, are only considered by the establishment as insolent savages and brats that are in need some serious spanking, all things considered. Edited on 6/23/2008 10:23 AM by Lautaro. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. —The Sith Code |
| #5 - Posted 23 June 2008, 10:44 AM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 371 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them As I said before, the Greek pantheon is not attacked because it is taught as a historical relic, as mythology, to aggrandize the ANCIENT Greeks. However the few people out there in the modern world who take faith in Greek/Roman/Norse gods seriously are ridiculed mercilessly. In fact these people have it worse than believers in Voodoo. Although Voodoo is mocked and persecuted to an extent, there is also a certain terror of it in the popular culture; at the very least there is a perception not to mess with those involved in it. If you are a pagan of any other sort in the modern world no one has the slightest respect; you are viciously mocked, and in some places in the USA quite persecuted by fundamentalist Christians. Edited on 6/23/2008 10:45 AM by Manhattanite. |
| #6 - Posted 23 June 2008, 11:31 AM | |
Location: Zimbabwe Join date: March 2008 Member #: 556 Posts: 242 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Manhattanite previously said: As I said before, the Greek pantheon is not attacked because it is taught as a historical relic, as mythology, to aggrandize the ANCIENT Greeks. However the few people out there in the modern world who take faith in Greek/Roman/Norse gods seriously are ridiculed mercilessly. In fact these people have it worse than believers in Voodoo. Although Voodoo is mocked and persecuted to an extent, there is also a certain terror of it in the popular culture; at the very least there is a perception not to mess with those involved in it. If you are a pagan of any other sort in the modern world no one has the slightest respect; you are viciously mocked, and in some places in the USA quite persecuted by fundamentalist Christians. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT ABOVE. I'm not a Voodoo Fan myself but I think that Voodoo needs better PR. I would start by renaming it Haitian Mythology instead of Voodoo. When I have more time I will be able to provide you with the Egyptian counterparts of those gods and of course their Christian counter parts as well. Manhattanite I don't know if you are aware but their is a ever growing number of people taking interests in the Kaballah in the USA and in Europe. If you have the time take a quick look at the symbols of some of the deities in the Kaballah and you will find that their are very similar to the ones in Haitian Mythology. Edited on 6/23/2008 11:39 AM by rom1804. |
| #7 - Posted 23 June 2008, 12:05 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 371 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Consuello previously said: It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. Well as a hobby I have been reading a lot about Gnostic Christianity in the last year. Some of the non-canonical books I've read are Gospel of Thomas, Secret Book of John, and right now Secret Book of Thomas. Also bits from all the rest of the Nag Hammadi texts. To some extent I can see why they were excluded; a lot of what is in there does not seem likely to be entirely the work of Jesus. On the other hand much of it is still inspired by him, his early followers, and to related schools in that region of the world, so YES they still matter. Jesus in the Gnostic scriptures is a bit more like Buddha...a lot more psychological, more like eastern philosophy, and more esoteric. Judas is an interesting figure; if one applies reason to the tales as presented it seems obvious to me Jesus must have instructed him to do as he did...but I suppose others can interpret that differently. I'm reading an interesting book right now Vida de Jesus by Ernest Renan; he reconstructs Jesus' bio from a rationalist, non-miraculous, historical perspective using all the sources. I'm not up to the Judas section yet but I imagine he will agree. |
| #8 - Posted 23 June 2008, 12:50 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 1154 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Manhattanite previously said: Quote: Consuello previously said: It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. Well as a hobby I have been reading a lot about Gnostic Christianity in the last year. Some of the non-canonical books I've read are Gospel of Thomas, Secret Book of John, and right now Secret Book of Thomas. Also bits from all the rest of the Nag Hammadi texts. To some extent I can see why they were excluded; a lot of what is in there does not seem likely to be entirely the work of Jesus. On the other hand much of it is still inspired by him, his early followers, and to related schools in that region of the world, so YES they still matter. Jesus in the Gnostic scriptures is a bit more like Buddha...a lot more psychological, more like eastern philosophy, and more esoteric. Judas is an interesting figure; if one applies reason to the tales as presented it seems obvious to me Jesus must have instructed him to do as he did...but I suppose others can interpret that differently. I'm reading an interesting book right now Vida de Jesus by Ernest Renan; he reconstructs Jesus' bio from a rationalist, non-miraculous, historical perspective using all the sources. I'm not up to the Judas section yet but I imagine he will agree. Well, this might belong on the conspiracy theory realm, but, what do you guys think about the theory about the real relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene brought forth by Dan Brown on the Da Vinci Code and other like minded writers? Edited on 6/23/2008 12:53 PM by Lautaro. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. —The Sith Code |
| #9 - Posted 23 June 2008, 1:05 PM | |
Location: Zimbabwe Join date: March 2008 Member #: 556 Posts: 242 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: Lautaro previously said: Quote: Manhattanite previously said: Quote: Consuello previously said: It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. Well as a hobby I have been reading a lot about Gnostic Christianity in the last year. Some of the non-canonical books I've read are Gospel of Thomas, Secret Book of John, and right now Secret Book of Thomas. Also bits from all the rest of the Nag Hammadi texts. To some extent I can see why they were excluded; a lot of what is in there does not seem likely to be entirely the work of Jesus. On the other hand much of it is still inspired by him, his early followers, and to related schools in that region of the world, so YES they still matter. Jesus in the Gnostic scriptures is a bit more like Buddha...a lot more psychological, more like eastern philosophy, and more esoteric. Judas is an interesting figure; if one applies reason to the tales as presented it seems obvious to me Jesus must have instructed him to do as he did...but I suppose others can interpret that differently. I'm reading an interesting book right now Vida de Jesus by Ernest Renan; he reconstructs Jesus' bio from a rationalist, non-miraculous, historical perspective using all the sources. I'm not up to the Judas section yet but I imagine he will agree. Well, this might belong on the conspiracy theory realm, but, what do you guys think about the theory about the real relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene brought forth by Dan Brown on the Da Vinci Code and other like minded writers? DAN BROWN and his collections I would say.......possible but unlikely he is a good writer but... I don't know Lat I read most of Dan Brown's books and my favorite thus far is Angels & Demons. I heard they are making a movie out of A & D. I can't wait for it to come out I know the Illuminati will be pissed..... As for you Manhattanite may I suggest if you haven't already read it " The Lost Gospel, The Quest For The Gospel Of Judas Iscariot by Herbert Krosney. Interesting little book I'll tell you its a page turner and also try reading Ann Rice's "Memnoch The Devil". Forget the Vampire stuff and read it twice. |
| #10 - Posted 23 June 2008, 1:18 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 1154 | RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them Quote: rom1804 previously said: Quote: Lautaro previously said: Quote: Manhattanite previously said: Quote: Consuello previously said: It is said as it is a fact that most Gospels were kept from the Bible, some even destroyed due to their controversial and possible disputable and contested claims of how they portrayed Jesus which were thought to have been ways that would have un-divinized him. Such as a good example, the Gospel of Judas as well as many other Gospels whom people and most Christians have somehow in a sense demonized. Well as a hobby I have been reading a lot about Gnostic Christianity in the last year. Some of the non-canonical books I've read are Gospel of Thomas, Secret Book of John, and right now Secret Book of Thomas. Also bits from all the rest of the Nag Hammadi texts. To some extent I can see why they were excluded; a lot of what is in there does not seem likely to be entirely the work of Jesus. On the other hand much of it is still inspired by him, his early followers, and to related schools in that region of the world, so YES they still matter. Jesus in the Gnostic scriptures is a bit more like Buddha...a lot more psychological, more like eastern philosophy, and more esoteric. Judas is an interesting figure; if one applies reason to the tales as presented it seems obvious to me Jesus must have instructed him to do as he did...but I suppose others can interpret that differently. I'm reading an interesting book right now Vida de Jesus by Ernest Renan; he reconstructs Jesus' bio from a rationalist, non-miraculous, historical perspective using all the sources. I'm not up to the Judas section yet but I imagine he will agree. Well, this might belong on the conspiracy theory realm, but, what do you guys think about the theory about the real relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene brought forth by Dan Brown on the Da Vinci Code and other like minded writers? DAN BROWN and his collections I would say.......possible but unlikely he is a good writer but... I don't know Lat I read most of Dan Brown's books and my favorite thus far is Angels & Demons. I heard they are making a movie out of A & D. I can't wait for it to come out I know the Illuminati will be pissed..... As for you Manhattanite may I suggest if you haven't already read it " The Lost Gospel, The Quest For The Gospel Of Judas Iscariot by Herbert Krosney. Interesting little book I'll tell you its a page turner and also try reading Ann Rice's "Memnoch The Devil". Forget the Vampire stuff and read it twice. Actually, I found Rice's "Queen of the Damned" to be quite entertaining. Now that we're into the literary realm, have any of you read Victor Hugo's "Bug Jargal" or Dumas' "Le Chevalier d'Harmental"? Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. —The Sith Code |