Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » All Great Civilizations Had Them
#21 - Posted 23 June 2008, 10:10 PM
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RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them
Quote:
HAYkickyouintheSHIN previously said:

Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Book of John is one of the most problematic Gospels in terms of literal interpretation. It presents a very different Jesus than the other three gospels. More questions than answers for the critical reader.

Shin I think the reason those perceptions exist is because Voodoo is simply more well known. Most people don't have any impression at all of Santería of Candomble because they have never heard of it ... perhaps there is a cultural historian on the forum who can explain why Voodoo gained such notoriety in US culture. I imagine it has to do with New Orleans culture.


Well..New Orleans "Voodoo" (American Hollywood spelling) as it is known over there is an American incarnate of the Afro-derived religion with similarities but little connection to Haitian Vodou. Although Haitians to a slight degree have a historical link to the region of Lousiana, I can say there is little Haitian influence if any in Lousiana Voodoo. Louisiana Voodoo places a lot of emphasis on direct folk magic, an aspect which is quite lacking in its Haitian counterpart. Voodoo dolls in the sense of inanimate objects which are manipulated to harm people do not exist whatsoever in Haitian Vodou and it's just a Hollywood publicized myth. Vodou is a very spiritual faith with high emphasis placed on worshipping spirits than practicing black magic. Movies such as Live and Let Die of the James Bond series certainly didn't help ease off some misconceptions of the religion. If I'm not mistaken doesn't the Dominican Republic (and Cuba) have a sort of similar belief system (though it probably is a small minority) called Palo?



You´re absolutely right Shin, it´s called "Fiesta de Palos", and it's practiced on the bateyes, along the Gagá (or Rará, as it's original haitian name) on the bateyes and in a few areas on the outskirts of Santo Domingo City (such as Villa Mella). On Cuba, the area that has been the most influenced by haitian culture is the south eastern tip of that island (specially the perimeter around Santiago and Guantánamo.
Edited on 6/23/2008 10:13 PM by Lautaro.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
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#22 - Posted 23 June 2008, 10:23 PM
Location: United States, New York City
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RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them
Quote:
HAYkickyouintheSHIN previously said:

Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Book of John is one of the most problematic Gospels in terms of literal interpretation. It presents a very different Jesus than the other three gospels. More questions than answers for the critical reader.

Shin I think the reason those perceptions exist is because Voodoo is simply more well known. Most people don't have any impression at all of Santería of Candomble because they have never heard of it ... perhaps there is a cultural historian on the forum who can explain why Voodoo gained such notoriety in US culture. I imagine it has to do with New Orleans culture.


Well..New Orleans "Voodoo" (American Hollywood spelling) as it is known over there is an American incarnate of the Afro-derived religion with similarities but little connection to Haitian Vodou.


Thanks for sharing that info. Unfortunately you and I both know it would be expecting too much for the public to become informed about this.
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#23 - Posted 23 June 2008, 10:27 PM
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RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them
Quote:
rom1804 previously said:

I heard that when the Lwa's would mount a Dominican. That person would speaki Creole even if the person didn't know how to speak the language.


Not only that, rom, but I have heard that, in some instances (specially during the haitian revolution), some people would be granted near inhuman physical strength, being capable of withstanding even the most grievous of bullet wounds. Could you guys shed some light as to the truthfulness of these rumors?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#24 - Posted 24 June 2008, 7:30 AM
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano
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RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
rom1804 previously said:

I heard that when the Lwa's would mount a Dominican. That person would speaki Creole even if the person didn't know how to speak the language.


Not only that, rom, but I have heard that, in some instances (specially during the haitian revolution), some people would be granted near inhuman physical strength, being capable of withstanding even the most grievous of bullet wounds. Could you guys shed some light as to the truthfulness of these rumors?


Lautaro,

Given the situation of that time in the past of mostly any Countries or group of people going through any revolt need a story to believe in to take them out of the norm of the fear they are or have grown accustomed to inflicted upon them by their suppressors. Thus because of the possible known sense of reluctancies many revolt leaders already know they might face from those people who will be part of their revolution, a state of m ind of divine belief often gives the struggle some kind of outer greater than self purpose to carry on the actual revolt itself.

For example within the Haitian greatest last battle with France, it is believed that one of the commander FRANCOIS "LA MORT" CAPOIS (La Mort which means his nick name "Death" ) of the Haitian Army during the battle with Gen. Rochambeau that he was struck three times by Canons as well as he might have been shot at but got up each times lift up his saber sword and cried or screamed "Forward" to his troops in which case it is recorded that Gen. Rochambeau had called for a ceased fire just to congratulate him for his tenacity, bravery and brevity which has proven the extreme amount of respect the French had for their grandeur of pride and Valor that even in face of adversary and defeat the French would still have time for when extraordinary performances has been expressed. This historical notion and story or even tale is told in Haitian paintings such as as amny say that Haitian paintings are often more of a reflection of the people's knowledge and pride of their history. Here is a painting that expressed this story

However, we all know that history may have had over emphasize as well as mystified this as though Gen Capois Lamort must have had special powers given to him by Bookman which in history of Haiti, Bookman was a vodou priest of Haitian slaves from Jamaica who supposedly motivated the slaves with the means of the Vodou Experience in Bois Cayman (meaning Crocodile Tree) where he had the vodou ceremony which is called or referred to in Haiti as the Bookman Experience and it is said that Capois Lamort may have attended this ceremony nights prior the last battle.

Now the natural explanation to explain that in reality had nothing to do with superpower or magical strength having been bestow upon him, but rather that the Canon did not or perhaps never hit him directly in the Chest as history or some may have indicated. It is obvious that the first canon brushed by his horse which apparently the wind blast knocked down the horse with him on it... but the horse luckily got up as he was still mounted on the horse... the second canon may have indeed hit and knocked down the horse to the point the horse did died but he himself may not have been impacted by the blast and the third one may have landed near him that from different angles it could have looked like he was directly stricken, but never actually did so he kept on going... http://www.carrieartcollection.com/artist-arc/1804/PA1055.html

Nevertheless, it takes a special brave soldier to have gotten three blasts of Canons knock you down and still persisted on marching on forward and was not even traumatized or go into any kind of shock. Those are the kind of stories that were told in many Greek battle that they believed certain warriors were direct descendants of Hercules himself, such as the story of TROY & Archelies. that many of you may already heard or familiar with the term Archielie's Heel or the Trojan Horse stories.
Edited on 6/24/2008 7:43 AM by Consuello.
#25 - Posted 24 June 2008, 8:23 AM
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RE: All Great Civilizations Had Them
Another Version to this story where the name Achilles was even mentioned:
On November 18, 1803, Jean-Jacques Dessalines had ordered Capois to take Vertières, a fort situated upon the mount. Capois-la-mort advanced with a demi-brigade which horribly multilated, soon recoiled before the fire of the fort. He led it back for a second time, but again driven to the bottom of the hill by the mitrailleuse. Boiling with rage, Capois ran to seek other new troops, and mounting his horse advanced for the third time; again the thousand deaths that vomited from the fortress repulsed him and his brigade. Now for the fourth time,he asked his men to follow him by saying Forward! forward!. while he was at the head of his men, his horse was hit by a canonball- he fell , but in the twinkling of an eye , capois took his sword, got up, and ran to place himself again at the head of his black soldiers by shouting forward! forward!. his cap, garnished with plumes, was carried away by a shot. he replied to the insult which left him hatless by drawing his sword and again threw himself to the assault Forward! forward!.Observing this, Rochambeau and his men shouted: bravo! bravo! bravo!. a roll of french drums resounded and the firing in the fort ceased. Suddenly, the battle stood still. A French staff officer mounted his horse and rode toward the intrepid Capoix-la-Mort. With a great voice he shouted: ‘’General Rochambeau sends compliments to the general who has just covered himself with such glory!" Then he saluted the Haitian warriors, returned to his position and the fight resumed. The next morning a french officer followed by his companions led to the headquarters of the Haitian army a horse caparisoned and delivered him with these words: The Captain-general ( rochambeau) offers this horse as a mark of admiration to the black Achilles to replace the one of his that the french army regrets to have killed.

And of course the Haitian soldiers were marching in battle En Chantant:

Grenadyé alaso

Sa ki mouri sa fé ya yo

Grenadyé alaso

Sa ki mouri sa fé ya yo

M'pa gin manman M'pa gin papa

Sa ki mouri sa fé ya yo

I love that song and even today when I say it I get a boost of encouragement.
As for the superhuman strength story I don't know I always consider Haitian Mythology priests also known as "Hougans" I see them as natural Chemists/Biologists they might have come up with some potion that can tremendously increase stamina or strength. They might have made steroids or red bull without knowing it and giving it to the troops. I don't know but what we know is they fought and they fought well.