Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
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#11 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:02 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
anthonyC previously said:

Quote:
Consuello previously said:

Wow okay

I see you are missing the point and that you are all lost buddy. Read the entire article again to get a full grasp of the point being conveyed here.

Laurato gets it already to the point all he did was add a slight continuation to it . Those that will get it, will; and those that will not, simply will not. If the very title of the thread did not sum it all for you, honestly I do not know what will on that of that, we have video clips that projected double talks and all that. Gee, are you okay? I cannot help you there my friend if you do not or cannot get it something as plain and clear as this just so my words are not reinterpreted wrongfully; thus, draw your own conclusion if you must brother.

We are not going to tarnish this thread with nonsense pointless bickering. Read the Article again if you have to until you get it.

Keep reading.



Yeah, but one with an horrendous distribution of the wealth, at that.
Your point is that Culture matters. My point is that in the case of the D.R. it didn't matter. The US arrived, straightened out the mess and left the D.R. with a vibrant, Western style, democracy.



Yeah, but one with horrendous disparities in wealth distribution, at that. Only Brazi and Haiti surpass us on these social unequalities.


True, great point!

To me, culture always matters, however if certain places in the world are willing to accept and embrace another's influential way of life willingly they are entitled to do as they wish, but usually that happens with places that were already in some level of disaccords within their own society already and had to choose between what are lesser evils. I do not know if you will or can understand where I would like to take this or even what I am trying to say.

It is like, me and you are bother and we are fighting over the same piece of toy and rather than let me have it, you say you would rather our parents destroy, split in half and so forth or even would rather give it to someone else than for us to share it since the tension between us and the desire to want to have the toy is so great when all along the kid next door has always been wanting to have this toy and even envied us for having the toy, and now due to our divisiveness here is his chance to possibly have it. All he has to do is pretend to play nice.
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#12 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:05 PM
Location: Brazil
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Well I happen to agree with the article that a culture must be ready for democracy, and it isn't something you can impose militarily.

UNLESS...you absolutely crush the nation first. See the experiment did work out decently in Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Those nations were not necessarily any more prepared for democracy; Germany had in fact already failed spectacularly at it. The difference was the scale of military action.

So I'm not sure how to interpret this. Does it mean US should crush more nations? Probably not...but let's be careful how we interpret events. Even if the US has been a blundering, careless giant in the Caribbean, we cannot forget to also BLAME OUR ANCESTORS for failing to run with a good thing when introduced to democracy. Germans and Japanese did it with depleted resources and cities reduced to ash.


My theory is that the rate of literacy on those three countries played a large role in how well they have fared since then, Manhattanite. You have to remember that, when Latin America began its experiment of being independent, it would do so with a huge, illiterate population on their hands (without understimating the greed of the elites and their wish to maintain the status quo as they saw fit, also).
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#13 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:11 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Well I happen to agree with the article that a culture must be ready for democracy, and it isn't something you can impose militarily.

UNLESS...you absolutely crush the nation first. See the experiment did work out decently in Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Those nations were not necessarily any more prepared for democracy; Germany had in fact already failed spectacularly at it. The difference was the scale of military action.

So I'm not sure how to interpret this. Does it mean US should crush more nations? Probably not...but let's be careful how we interpret events. Even if the US has been a blundering, careless giant in the Caribbean, we cannot forget to also BLAME OUR ANCESTORS for failing to run with a good thing when introduced to democracy. Germans and Japanese did it with depleted resources and cities reduced to ash.


True and indeed our ancestors have much of the blame to contend for. Which is why as new generations, we have to be careful as to how we are letting those inherited divisiveness of differences cause us to make those very same mistakes. Luckily for us this generation, we know of the mistakes and where they were made or at least why and have realized that we have not so much benefited from them socially and diplomatically in terms of civility and amicable relations. Do we not have an obligations to ourselves to start getting involve in the prospect future of the Island of Hispaniola or the societies we live in? When do we make a stand for more peaceful strives?
#14 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:12 PM
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
:The crisis passed, and democratic continuity was more or less established in 1966. "

No such thing. A twelve year dictatorship with the semblence of a civil democracy under Balaguer is what emerged.

#15 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:17 PM
Location: Brazil
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

:The crisis passed, and democratic continuity was more or less established in 1966. "

No such thing. A twelve year dictatorship with the semblence of a civil democracy under Balaguer is what emerged.




And after that, eight years of disorder and kleptocracy from the PRD govs. Which would make possible for Balaguer to stage an spectacular comeback on 1986.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
—The Sith Code
#16 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:17 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Well I happen to agree with the article that a culture must be ready for democracy, and it isn't something you can impose militarily.

UNLESS...you absolutely crush the nation first. See the experiment did work out decently in Germany, Japan, and South Korea. Those nations were not necessarily any more prepared for democracy; Germany had in fact already failed spectacularly at it. The difference was the scale of military action.

So I'm not sure how to interpret this. Does it mean US should crush more nations? Probably not...but let's be careful how we interpret events. Even if the US has been a blundering, careless giant in the Caribbean, we cannot forget to also BLAME OUR ANCESTORS for failing to run with a good thing when introduced to democracy. Germans and Japanese did it with depleted resources and cities reduced to ash.


My theory is that the rate of literacy on those three countries played a large role in how well they have fared since then, Manhattanite. You have to remember that, when Latin America began its experiment of being independent, it would do so with a huge, illiterate population on their hands (without understimating the greed of the elites and their wish to maintain the status quo as they saw fit, also).


My point exactly,

I hope I am not sidetracking, but education is the first plausible solution for any kind of change we seek and need by getting rid of old premises that have served us and have given us nothing but division thus is the premises of hate given to us by those whose intention had always been to see us divided as people. There could be two fully great sovereign independent Nations which could both get to co-exist amicably and with way more better civility than we are right now in terms of trade, relations and diplomacy.
#17 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:44 PM
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.

Quote:
Lautaro previously said:


Somehow, nobody seems to believe me on that account, Consuello. It seems that there's this stereotype that, for someone to be considered a dominican, one has to be a party-loving, whore-beater, disorganized, good-for-nothing ignoramus. Apparently, we bookish types can't seem to fit on the mold. LOL

I think that the main teaching of this thread is that, for democracy to work on a given country, the culture of that country must be prepared to embrace it. Anything less than that is destined to meet with dismal failure.



we're out there, but since we are not loud as other so we're hard to notice.
#18 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:46 PM
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
CarlosFranco previously said:


Quote:
Lautaro previously said:


Somehow, nobody seems to believe me on that account, Consuello. It seems that there's this stereotype that, for someone to be considered a dominican, one has to be a party-loving, whore-beater, disorganized, good-for-nothing ignoramus. Apparently, we bookish types can't seem to fit on the mold. LOL

I think that the main teaching of this thread is that, for democracy to work on a given country, the culture of that country must be prepared to embrace it. Anything less than that is destined to meet with dismal failure.



we're out there, but since we are not loud as other so we're hard to notice.


Oh boy,

Here comes Carlos (l l)! Well, we can rest assured Arcatype is on his way (l l)!!!
#19 - Posted 2 July 2008, 2:57 PM
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
For democracy to "work" there has to be both an EDUCATED ENGAGED ellectorate to hold the represenitives accountable, and represenetives able to work together to govern by concencous and compromise, Unfourtunatly the Arab or in any 'tribal' society there are inherant road blocks to this process. But If we are here long enough for the young people to see how we live and give them a choice to CHOOSE between modern i.e. western society and the backwards traditions that have kept their forbearers in the 12th century, Then we will see. Im not garunteeing anything but if it does work we will all be better off for it. In the mean time the Iraqis owe us an @ss load of oil. The Afghans...well they make good Hash and Shish kababs...thats about it but the young people I know all want to escape this 'culture' which crushes dreams and rellegates the pursuit of happiness to heresy.
#20 - Posted 2 July 2008, 3:07 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Montellano
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RE: HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRACY.
Quote:
pappabowie previously said:

For democracy to "work" there has to be both an EDUCATED ENGAGED ellectorate to hold the represenitives accountable, and represenetives able to work together to govern by concencous and compromise, Unfourtunatly the Arab or in any 'tribal' society there are inherant road blocks to this process. But If we are here long enough for the young people to see how we live and give them a choice to CHOOSE between modern i.e. western society and the backwards traditions that have kept their forbearers in the 12th century, Then we will see. Im not garunteeing anything but if it does work we will all be better off for it. In the mean time the Iraqis owe us an @ss load of oil. The Afghans...well they make good Hash and Shish kababs...thats about it but the young people I know all want to escape this 'culture' which crushes dreams and rellegates the pursuit of happiness to heresy.



I miss the hashish there too, buddy... Nothing like American bongs (l l)!!!

However yeah, I feel your point made.
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