Pepe32 previously said:

Great post generoso Haiti and Zimbabwe are 2 clear examples of 2 nations where the populations got rid of the only people who knew how to run an economy and a nation with the results we all know Mandela on the other hand knew that if he expelled all the people with knowledge they would collapse so he created a transition.I know that oupala would probably fall in the first category and would prefer killing all the blancs and probably would have torched the church in Moca but such is the mentality of savages who cut off their nose to spite their face. Unfortunately for the Haitians they still live in wonderland and fantasy makes a bad advisor.

generoso previously said:



If we are playing the "blame game" the biggest culprit and MOST responsible nation for the failure of Haiti as a nation is undoubtedly FRANCE. Because of these facts (not allegations):

The French were doing a very profitable sugar business in Haiti and importing many colonists from France. At the same time buying and/or trading goods under the "three way trade" for thousands and thousands of slaves in west Africa and shipping them under the most terrible conditions in slave ships, to the long journey to Haiti.
Once arrival in Haiti the slaves were underfed, brutalized, punished and treated worse than animals.
They were chained and whipped in a daily basis, and sometimes killed just for the amusement of their masters. The women were used as mistresses at an early age and paired with the best physical specimens, against their will. The conditions were so bad in Haiti that other slaves in nearby French possessions such as Martinique and Guadeloupe were threatened to be sent to Haiti as punishment if they didn't perform better, since that was the worse nightmare.
Meanwhile the Haitian colony was the richest and most prosperous settlement in the new world, and more French colonists kept coming to reap the benefits.
This explosive situation proved to be easily combustible, and the Haitian slaves (Estimated 500,000) that at the time outnumbered the French and Polish volunteers by a large margin, were rallied to revolt by Toussaint L'Overture who beat the French troops, and led the Haitian independence movement along with other former slaves.
When Toussaint was apparently tired and had suffered some military reversals, the French took advantage of this situation and incarcerated Toussaint, and he was sent back to France were he died a horrible and cruel death, in a remote dungeon, caused by cold and malnutrition.
His second in command, Dessalines who was illiterate and not as educated and groomed as Toussaint, (who was a francophile, and would have been a perfect statesman to lead Haiti into prosperity), instead Dessalines took the helm of the Haitian revolution, and him being a cruel, brutal and fierce soldier, not agreeable to compromise but to blood thirsty vendettas, carried Haiti into a self destruct mode which still exists today. Dessalines being responsible for the first Dominican massacres, genocide and attempts to exterminate our race, with his motto "koupe tet, boule kay" that were never forgiven and still remain in the memory of every Dominican national.
After Dessalines was assassinated by his own generals, the situation in Haiti became more fragmented, having different "kingdoms" in the north and in the south, and the slaves kept being brutalized except that now they were apparently "freed" with only three choices:
1. Work for the emperor and be paid 25% of the production. (maybe)
2. Join the Haitian army and be paid sometimes.
3. Run to the hills and become a cimarrón and live off the land. (many took that option).
The rest of the history we all know, a series of corrupt governments and dictators, plus the constant black mail by the French for the Haitians to finish paying their war reparations, that strangled the already many times bankrupt Haitian economy, since the French sugar colonists with their expertise in sugar production and refinement, had fled the island to Cuba, Florida, Louisiana and Puerto Rico and few to DR, and the Haitian sugar industry collapsed.

Pepe32 previously said:

Incognito ,keeping a couple is irrelevant and I don't question why they were killed (I wrote that earlier) but the basic premise still holds that the people who were all of a sudden "free" did not know what to do with that freedom and they were not equipped to handle a nation .

DR with all its problems always had a small group of people equipped to govern ,we did not have to start from scratch because we started with people who knew the business of governance while the people who were running Haiti did not have a clue ,they were limited to imitating European royalty (King ,Emperor) and the nation had serious race relations problems between the African majority and the mixed blood minority .

All these factors and pissing off a world power like France did not help Haiti at all but instead of living in the past Haitians should construct Haiti from scratch (2nd Republic) discarding all the negative and doing things differently because even if all that fantasy history were true ,it does not feed or educate.

Incognito previously said:


In this case I would agree on a " 2nd Republic of Haiti".

The problem seriously, If Christophe had took p-a-p after Petion Dearth, all history would had change. Cap haitien was burned during the war (war strategy Russia did the same),It was a brand new city made by King henry.. today .. No debt of independance,more schools. This coward of Boyer close the schools made by Christophe to create Military base. Christophe had a vision for Haiti but saddly...

generoso previously said:



Ti Neg: Sa va?
Henri Christophe was affected by syphilis that had infected his brain and was a terminal case before he committed suicide, by a silver bullet (maybe he thought of himself as evil and needed a silver bullet) . This disease was transmitted by the white French whores that he preferred to have around his court.
He built the "Citadelle" the most impregnable old fortress that I have visited (yes) for those days with many cannons, at a great human cost (some historians say that over 10,000 Haitians died during the construction), some say more, but with 0 military value. Why? because the French generals decided that it did not have a military value since it was a remote location on top of a mountain, and the best thing to do was just ignore it and occupy all the territory around and close to it, as they did.
Henri declared himself emperor and dressed European style, but he was not very political and had primal concepts of how a government should function, and was doomed for failure. In other words he had reach the "Peter principle" where some rise in the hierarchy to their level of incompetence.
Like I said before, Toussaint was the natural leader for Haiti and the French never forgave him for rising against them, and shot themselves in the foot when they imprisoned and killed him, because of their imperialistic and intolerant doctrines.

cibaeño75 previously said:



I don't think that's a fair assesment of Christophe's rule. Keep in mind that the state functioned under him and he was indeed able to leave a surplus in the state treasury upon his deasth, a considerable sum at that (not to mention several buildings he commisioned that included the citadelle and the Sans souci palace). I think Lautaro can expand on Christophe's rule a little more if he's out there. Also, the French never had to deal with the citadelle as it was built after the last french troops left what became Haitian soil.

generoso previously said:



Henri who came from the english possession of St.Kitts was not xenophobic against whites, since he was partial to the British, but was a vane, egocentric tyrant, and in his feudal codes and disciplinary actions became repressive, and ruled with utmost cruelty.
He had no revolutionary ideals and even conferred nobility "titles" to the jesters and sycophants of his Haitian court.
To build the Haitian "La Citadelle" at cost of the lives of between 10,000 and 20,000 "freed" slaves is no accomplishment in my book, and the plush "Sans Souci" palace in a poor country like Haiti is just a monument to his insatiable vanity, and his spendthrift ways of dispensing public moneys.

cibaeño75 previously said:



You're laboring under the assumption that Haiti was always as poor as she is today. Not so. Even during Henri's time their were still vestiges of the immense wealth that Haiti once possessed. Keep in mind that up until the begiining of the Haitian revolutiion Haiti alone accounted for 2/3rds of France's revenue, France then being the richest European country, and produced greater wealth than all the thirteen original colonies that would become the US COMBINED. That Henri was indeed cruel is undisputable but cruelty and mismanagement do not necessarily go hand in hand. He ran a very effecient state, as did Trujillo who was just as cruel and vain. I've stated before that an interesting thesis can be written comparing the regimes of Henri and Trujillo. There are many parrallels.