dreadlocks made an offhanded comment in another thread regarding the usefulness of Caribbean island nations to the big boys which got me thinking. It's 2008: the Olympics are in CHINA of all places. Meanwhile I'm sure you've all seen the headlines about Putin flexing muscle in the homeland of Stalin, Georgia. In 1995 this would all have seemed surreal. That's real food for thought as regards who the big boys are... anyway here are some questions I hope will spark discussion about DR's place in the huge world outside of Hispaniola or the US diaspora.

Is Latin-America a civilization of its own? An outpost of Western civilization? Could the Caribbean/Central America ever be seen as a civilizational unit of its own? Can DR itself be more than an outpost of Europe or US? Is DR's cultural/political path towards integration with Latin America or the other islands?

Hope I get some replies, and that they don't devolve into racist drivel...

Well, it's hard no to be under the USA sphere of influence due to our location.
But I feel DR/PR/Cuba are the center of the Spanish Caribbean cultural sphere which actually includes Panama, Venezuela, even Colombia (the Caribbean coast).
Central America is a transition zone with countries like Guatemala, El Salvador falling under more the Mexcican influence, Honduras, Nicaragua a bit of both, Costa Rica & Panama more Caribbean centered.

The broader picture, I feel that LatinAmerica is a unique outpost of Western civilization, it's roots have major influences from Spain, of course with each countries respective creole culture but not to the point USA is. LatinAmerica has incorporated unique Native American & African influences into their cultures alot more than the USA, so were are not carbon copies of Spain and this aspect makes us very unique with a true American identity that is not a New World duplicate of old Europe or Africa.
What other group of people can speak to anyone from Mexico to Chile & Argentina due to our language? Arabs ? Not Europeans.
Also we have a couple of countries with huge populations and gigantic resources like Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and good economic track records like Chile.
I have no idea how this will help us, but what limits DR is it's administration/people/mindset.
We have to concentrate on the availability of practial education, our education system is lacking.

manhattanite, i feel compelled to ask you to refresh my recollection regarding this comment you attribute to me. you characterise it as " offhanded ", so at the very least i would like to read it again, to see the context in which it was stated. thank you in advance.

hey dread, it was in the food thread. by offhanded I just meant you said it casually and it (geopolitics) wasn't the topic itself.



I like this from USADR's post...



Also I agree with your point that one thing we would seem to be lacking is administrators. When we broke off from Europe this was a severe problem for Lat.Am. nations, but it is embarrassing to not be over it nearly 150 years later. It sounds from your answer like you mean more than just technically skilled bureaucrats though. If there is a limiting mindset does that mean DR needs to import more (better?) culture?

Europe may not have a common tongue of their own anymore, but I would guess with either English or French you could get a lot done in many important cities there. That is one advantage we do have over a ton of regions in the world. It's also an advantage with direct bearing on improving education on a regional basis. I wonder how much cooperation there is, if any, in that area. So many countries with a common language should be able to come up with solutions to brain drain, competitive advantage, etc.

The common thread in Spanish speaking countries is language, and the individual dividing element in most is nationalism and education. DR's principle ailing factor is Education. This is very sad. DR has and abundance of the necessary ingredients for success and promise but as I like to say "much idled capacity and promise".

Sadly, it is continuously crippled by a social mindset that relishes post Colombian Spanish colonization or sovereignty, and a plethora of incompetent politicians and figureheads whose only stable platform is money and a hollow empty promise of a better tomorrow.

DR. desperately needs an infusion of new blood. Whether it be from Europe, U.S, Taiwan or Japan. An infusion of highly technical diversified educated and dynamic individuals that can introduce at grass roots level a new mindset that will permeate the cultural fabric of mainstream Dominicans with ideas, and simply put, "a better way of doing things".

There are many social improvements that can be accomplish that require very little money if only the mindset is there. But ignorance in DR has been insidiously pervasive, crippling and holding integrity, honesty and justice all hostage.

ladronaso, one of the paradoxes of life in the DR is that the politicians have no real interest in bettering the larger society by applying long term solutions, but have managed to convince the masses that they are some type of benevolent grandfather. it is accomplished largely by pomp and ceremony, visual aids to nationalism, and paternalism. this condition is a constant, as was taken to great heights in the Balaguer years. maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons why education never received the focus it did was because the political directorate always has seen the public not as equal citizens, but as beneficiaries of the generosity of their political masters. if the poor needed something, they could get it by pledging blind allegiance to the party. the subliminal message is still repeated and reinforced today. Leonel cuts every ribbon to inaugurate every major project. when the aircraft seized by customs were turned over to the DNCD for use in the fight against trafficking, Miguel Cocco announced that it was a donation from the President. similarly, i have seen numerous public assets such as school buses with the lettering " Donado por Hipolito Mejia ", as if he gave it to the country from his personal account.

It's a strange paradox that the idealism of the many rebels, the philosophies of nationalism and liberty they borrowed from W. Europe, in the end become an obstacle to regional cooperation and rapid progress...or tools to manipulate people internally as dread describes above.



The first step is admitting someone else's way of doing things is better. This is one area where I think the US is beneficial and hazardous at once. You would think DR & Lat.Am. in general might be able to look North and effectively emulate the best of US culture, but there is also a considerable darkside to what may be borrowed from US. Especially on the level of popular culture there is a lot of disposable BS from American culture that too many people are attracted by.

Japan might be the best example of this. When China was the apex of civilization, they replicated Chinese culture. And in much more recent history when they saw they'd fallen behind they wasted no time taking the positive on offer from US & European nations.

Everything thing you mentioned I have iterated to many here in the U.S as well as DR. However, I do feel that unfortunately the population in DR is tainted and petrified and that there needs to be infusion of new blood from abroad. Specifically highly technical and educated Dominican professionals who are willing to sacrifice any opportunities in the states or elsewhere for the chance to contribute to a change of DR.

But Dominicans are complacent, all talk and no action. Unlike other Latin Am. who if having resources will mobilize and make an attempt in earnest to be proactive in their affairs. We Dominicans talk about corruption and have the gull to come here to DT, and among our friends, complain of corrupt activities and behavior, and when DR we are complicit to the same activities we denounce

I strongly believe of ten thousand Dominicans (in DR) you may find one who is genuinely virtuous and possessing integrity of the highest caliber. I believe every man has his price, but Dominicans sell themselves very cheap. All it takes is the right mix of incentives.

This is why I have and continue to stress that change cannot come from within DR. It must come from abroad. The catalyst must be external and unfortunately I don't think it should be from the U.S. Dominicans in the U.S. are equally complacent living in a fantasy world wanting to paint DR as fantasy semi Utopian land where we all get along and we all take care of our own.

What idiots.

I apologize, I get frustrated when I think about all the idiots that just don't get it.

i expect another lashing from one of our posters on this subject, but i am one person who has always believed in regional integration, at least to a degree. the territories of the caribbean have placed all their stock in their ex-colonial European masters, and have made concerted attempts to isolate themselves from each other. the british west indies tried federation, but petty jealousies and one upmanship scuttled the effort. yet we have a lot to offer each other. cuba has techniques for construction which have benefitted many islands .also, their micro dam program is very advanced. we should be exchanging ideas in agriculture and scientific development, yet we want to keep secrets from each other. each island has a competitive advantage over the other in some respect, and we should exploit those advantages with full knowledge that the cold war is over, and we are no longer valuable to anyone but ourselves. no one island is an island, and we are all we have, if you look at it realistically. why can't there be some sort of formalised agreement within the caribbean to avert the repetitive confiscation of Dominican fishing vessels by the likes of jamaica and the Turks and Caicos islands?

ladronaso, as usual you do not mince words, and tell it like it is. i have to tread lightly, out of the respect that a guest has to show to his host, but you have said all that i see. we have to come to a point when we realise that there are areas in which we could use some help, at least from a technical standpoint, and that looking to the USA and Europe will not necessarily provide us with optimal solutions. look at Barbados, for example. they have managed to produce , along with Cuba, the two most literate populations in the western hemisphere. why can't we take a look at what they are doing, if only to see if anything there is applicable here? is it because of some sort of disdain that we harbor for others with a different history? we are all willing to run off to America, to live in squalid apartment buildings, tolerate exploitation and racism, not to mention hostile weather, looking for " opportunity ", which usually presents itself only in the form of a few material trappings: the big screen TV, the leased BMW, and x-boxes for the young uns. i am of the opinion that more lasting opportunities for improvement lie within our region, but we are all so wrapped up in being able to go to the mall and buy more FUBU and AIR JORDANS that we lose sight of the big picture!