Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Question regarding Sammy Sosa
#21 - Posted 12 August 2008, 3:09 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

I agree with the general sentiments here, however I have to play devil's advocate a bit. When educated Dominicans/Domi-Americans talk about our Taino or other heritage, yes we do properly put it in the context of the much greater African contribution. However I have seen with my own eyes the absolute denial of African roots. So while it is dubious when certain observers with an axe to grind to single out DR over the rest of Latin America for this behavior, it is not dubious that the behavior and attitude does exist. I never heard of Sammy Sosa saying such a thing but you know what? It is certainly possible. People can take self-deception to great lengths.


That's all well and true, Manhattanite. Unfortunately, these people wants us to adopt the american one-droppism, which for me (and for the majority of dominicans and latin americans alike) is a very unacceptable solution. In fact, it might be worst than the illness itself. As much as some of us might despise european colonialism, we can't deny that a great part of our culture is in itself pretty much westernized, with a great part of the campesino elements (specially the ones from the Cibao) remaining pretty much Taino, as Jorge Estevez' work can attest.



I often put it in this very very simplistic way for the Afrocentrics:

In the USA:
Social defintions of race evolved into a very Manicheastic bi-polar view
black+white=black
1+1=1
black crayon +black crayon=black crayon

In DR (just like the rest of LatinAmerica):
Social defintions of race evovled in a color continuum. Very fluid and often influenced by socioeconomic class.
black+white=mulatto (not white, not black)
1+1=2
black crayon+white crayon=gray crayon (gray is neither black or white but composed of both)
In short, LatinAmericans language contains many more words to describe a persons phenotype vs Americans, much like Eskimos have alot of words for snow as opposed to English.

The USA actually took out the word mulatto from their census in the early part of the last century. Even racist Apartheid S. Africa knew the difference between a 'colored' of mixed descent, an East Indian and a black.
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#22 - Posted 12 August 2008, 3:14 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:


The funny thing is, that all these attacks just create further alienation and animosity that already exists between the Dominican community and AA's. Nothing antagonized more than an arrogant display of trying to impose foriegn (USA) labels on another nations' people.


If that imposing attitude was galling during the era of their greatest prestige (the 90's), how do you think the rest of the world is viewing that attitude today, when americans are viewed as "persona non-grata" on far too many countries for their liking?



lol, I've seen some Dominicans call it a form of Afro-Saxon Imperialism trying to OneDrope LatinAmerica.
The funny thing is, it is the other way around. We are forcing the USA to expand on their narrow definitions/labels. Look at the US census now compared to years ago. Much more detailed. It took them a while to understand Latinos come fall under many American 'race labels'. Baby steps. There are even some American mulattos or mixed descent who are also criticizing this, of course nothing angers some African American than for a person of mixed descent to rep. all their ancestry (Tiger Woods). This is an inherited racial problem in the USA
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#23 - Posted 12 August 2008, 3:58 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
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USADR previously said:

I have yet to meet a Dominican that looks like Big Papi tell me he is really 'indio oscuro' lol.


The sad thing is this occurred to me once. I didn't even try to teach the guy because he was older and clearly so convinced. Imagine, to live with such self-hatred and attachment to a delusion
http://englishquisqueya.ning.com
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#24 - Posted 12 August 2008, 4:12 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

I have yet to meet a Dominican that looks like Big Papi tell me he is really 'indio oscuro' lol.


The sad thing is this occurred to me once. I didn't even try to teach the guy because he was older and clearly so convinced. Imagine, to live with such self-hatred and attachment to a delusion


That is sad. I have even asked older family members who came here as an adult to see their cedulas, my aunt's husband who would not be seen as black here in the USA to my surpirse had 'negro' on his cedula. He looks like some dark skinned Saudi Arabian or East Indian.
I'm guessing anything is possible, but to label an entire nation as being ignorant about some of their roots is just wrong.
I did my 8th grade in DR (sent back by my parents due to my horrible spanish) and the books clearly mention we are a mixed population with black ancestry. I lived in the capital by the way.
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#25 - Posted 12 August 2008, 4:20 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
for anyone interested, here is a huge picture gallery on Dominicans that another poster made:
http://www.biodiversityforum.com/showthread.php5?t=27056
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#26 - Posted 19 August 2008, 8:51 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
What "corky " called himself ....who would have thought...lautaro and usadr your comments have been interesting and given me much food for thought...onedropism and afronazis will be the ruin of the DR and I concur on the phony agenda of the black congressional congress who were responsible for the most recent American incursion into Haiti and set that unfortunate place back even further....Phooey on Maxine Waters and Ron Dellums
lets get ready to RUUMMMMMMBBBLLLEE
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#27 - Posted 19 August 2008, 8:52 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
What "Corky " called himself ....who would have thought...lautaro and usadr your comments have been interesting and given me much food for thought...Onedroppism and Afronazis will be the ruin of the DR and I concur on the phony agenda of the black congressional congress who were responsible for the most recent American incursion into Haiti and set that unfortunate place back even further....Phooey on Maxine Waters and Ron Dellums
lets get ready to RUUMMMMMMBBBLLLEE
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#28 - Posted 20 August 2008, 1:46 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
USADR,

I have been your comments and it is hilarious to call dominicans spanish speaking haitians..lol..that's funny. I think what you tend to forget is that USA was/is a very segregated country while DR is the complete opposite. In order for whites to keep control economically and physically the incorporated the one drop rule. Alicia Keys is considered black in the USA but everyone knows that she is mixed. In some dominicans eyes she can call herself white and it would be ok. I think what is going on is African American have used that one drop rule to bond collectively as one and now they are seeing this immigrants with a heavy african influence calling themselves tainos. Now in my pov DR is a mixture of 3 cultures in my book but looking with the physical eyes of an african american one impose the one drop rule on dominicans and see them as denying their black. Although it isn't far fetch to see a Sammy sosa type dominican saying he's not black and Big Papa..whichis considered and insult to African American. Remember now dominicans are major players in baseball and it's an american sport so due to the segregation in the past where even hispanic black were not allowed to play african americans see a Sosa or a Bonds as part of THEIR legacy. Unfortunately USA is segregated and that's how it will be for now let's hope it changes it way like the rest of the world.

Una preguntita? it appears you are blaming my nation for african american coming down on the DR? Am I reading you right? I think it is safe to say that Sammy Sosa is a baseball player. I never heard these comments..first time..remember politics plays into this too..Look at Obama he is african american white mom and african father..he's lineage has nothing to do with slavery in america but is considered part of the diaspora..I think that's what african american can't grasp..anyway, to each his own..live and let live..
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#29 - Posted 20 August 2008, 2:18 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
Quote:
JabaoHaitian previously said:

USADR,

I have been your comments and it is hilarious to call dominicans spanish speaking haitians..lol..that's funny. I think what you tend to forget is that USA was/is a very segregated country while DR is the complete opposite. In order for whites to keep control economically and physically the incorporated the one drop rule. Alicia Keys is considered black in the USA but everyone knows that she is mixed. In some dominicans eyes she can call herself white and it would be ok. I think what is going on is African American have used that one drop rule to bond collectively as one and now they are seeing this immigrants with a heavy african influence calling themselves tainos. Now in my pov DR is a mixture of 3 cultures in my book but looking with the physical eyes of an african american one impose the one drop rule on dominicans and see them as denying their black. Although it isn't far fetch to see a Sammy sosa type dominican saying he's not black and Big Papa..whichis considered and insult to African American. Remember now dominicans are major players in baseball and it's an american sport so due to the segregation in the past where even hispanic black were not allowed to play african americans see a Sosa or a Bonds as part of THEIR legacy. Unfortunately USA is segregated and that's how it will be for now let's hope it changes it way like the rest of the world.

Una preguntita? it appears you are blaming my nation for african american coming down on the DR? Am I reading you right? I think it is safe to say that Sammy Sosa is a baseball player. I never heard these comments..first time..remember politics plays into this too..Look at Obama he is african american white mom and african father..he's lineage has nothing to do with slavery in america but is considered part of the diaspora..I think that's what african american can't grasp..anyway, to each his own..live and let live..


JabaoHaitian,
Thanks for the response.
I've been in a couple of anthro. forums, and it is usually African Americans who come up with these types of comments. And for some strange reason, it's African Americans from out west or down south who have very limited contact with Dominicans (they base their knowledge on baseball players & online articles). I've yet to read a West Indian or African post anything remotely similar, especially those who live in areas where there is a substantial amount of Dominicans (East Coast tri-state area)

The thing is that they have some type of PanAfrican ideology and that's not what happens in the real world. A black Latino was never considered sometype of long lost 'spanish speaking black brother' by AA's, he was simply another spic who happened to be 'darkskinnded'. I went to school with AA's, they knew what a Dominican was and they never said any of the things I read about online. The online world brings out all the crazies with all sorts of agendas.
They attribute that comment to Sammy Sosa as a way to insult/humiliate DR, but I've never seen any source for that statement.
And no, I'm not blaming Haitians, African Americans use Haiti as a romanticized point of reference when making unfavorable comparisons to DR.
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#30 - Posted 20 August 2008, 2:50 PM
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RE: Question regarding Sammy Sosa
USADR,

People always get fustrated of what they can't seem to grasp so I'm assuming that's were these ultra afrocentrics are coming from. Now these days one can go to wiki and read garbage and consider themselves an intellect with insight to say why x, y are the problem. On the field things are done differently where confrontation is up close not online fanatics. Not to go off topic put I would like you and others to read up on "la negritude" in the francophone countries it is the equivalent of black power in the usa. I dont think the spanish speaking countries ever had a black movement with such success. Some were started but were soon crushed. The DR is different because it isn't segregated per se. I think each society should respect each other and learn from each other..it's all about tolerance. I dont think such a movement would ever fly in the DR. Can you tell me why not? Lautaro you too..hey it appears we are losing the normal people..
Edited on 8/20/2008 2:52 PM by JabaoHaitian.
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