#81 - Posted 24 January 2011, 11:50 AM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
Bonaoisimo previously said:

Guillermone:

cibao does not equal campesino, if that was the case than all northern campesinos would be cibaenos. and most people in "central cibao" live in urban areas.


It all depends on how the context of the word "campesino" is being used. You can be from "el campo" and not be campesino and just because you are a Dominican campesino does not automatically make you Cibaeño. However, if you are culturally Cibaeño, not by adoption but rather, by birth or ancestry, it is a given that your prideful origins are campesino, no ifs, ands or buts.

However, what people need to understand and have missed all along is that authentic Cibaeño culture started in the hills, mountains and country side of central Cibao. It is a fact like 1+1= 2 and can not be argued. Now if that influence spread out to other parts of the country due to social acceptance or as a result of advancements in a transportation which made the region less isolated, now that is something else. It does not necessarily mean that in every case the origins are "Cibaeño" just because they portray characteristics to identify them as such.

For example if hypthetically speaking a population of Japanese citizens decided for what ever reason to give up sushi and started to eat arrrró y bichuela, alcapurrrrrria, pasteles, mofongo, cook gandinga, dance salsa and plena and listen to Jibarito de Lares songs, drive un carrrro Chevorolet Impala, it does not automatically make them Puerto Rican Jibaros.

At least not in every case, which is more or less the argument I keep hearing repeated over and over again by many posters.
Edited on 1/24/2011 11:53 AM by guillermone.
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#82 - Posted 24 January 2011, 12:33 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Your map is old and is not correct. I have never hear of anyone from any coastal town say "yo soy dei cibao"


I suggest you take a trip to Cabrera, Rio San Juan, Nagua and Gaspar Hernandez and come back and make the same claim, you won't
"Those who do not hate their own selfishness and regard themselves as more important than the rest of the world are blind because the truth lies elsewhere" - Blaise Pascal
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#83 - Posted 24 January 2011, 12:36 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
yumnuk3 previously said:

Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
CarlosFranco previously said:


Why isn't Dajabon part of el Cibao? also WHY is Samana part of el Cibao if it's populated by former-US-slaves and not our hispanic demographics?





Dajabon is nowhere near the Cibao valley and not even the people from Samana consider themelves Cibaeños (they are not).

Cib,
This guy almost made me spill my drink with that comment... Talk about knowing nothing about DR


Mr. Franco knows a thing or two...
BTW..before someone chimes in...el Cibaeño no vive a la vera del mar!!


I beg to differ. So, you're saying that people from Nagua, Cabrera and Rio San Juan are not from El Cibao because they live by the ocean, although their customs, dialect and physical attributes are all from El Cibao?





Jem237,

Don't worry, you have El Ciego De Nagua to prove your point.




Thanks, Yum! Don't forget El Prodigio, too!
"Those who do not hate their own selfishness and regard themselves as more important than the rest of the world are blind because the truth lies elsewhere" - Blaise Pascal
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#84 - Posted 24 January 2011, 12:43 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
guillermone previously said:

The map you see above is strictly a geopolitical demarcation which has been labeled "Cibao" is misleading and has little to do with the authentic regional cultural identity of the Cibaeño.


ominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24" target="_blank">http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~34413~1180043?qvq=qominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24

Take a look at this French made Map of the entire island and notice how far the Plains o Llanos de la Vega Real expanded. All the way to Samaná Bay Again, I think that what is "El Cibao" is subject to time and place. And the areas or sectors/divisions once large and over encompassing have gained more differentiation as modernization and development has progressed.



We had a vaery heated discussion on this before...I don't want to ruffle any feathers..but again, If you live near the beach, not from the cibao...if you live near the border, tampoco...if you live south of Bonao (la puerta del Cibao entrando por la capital), eres sureño.



Sorry Cib, just like I told xwill, please take a trip to towns of Cabrera, Rio San Juan, Gaspar Hernandez and Nagua and see for yourself if these people do not represent what you would consider to be Cibaeño culture. You might be surprised.
"Those who do not hate their own selfishness and regard themselves as more important than the rest of the world are blind because the truth lies elsewhere" - Blaise Pascal
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#85 - Posted 24 January 2011, 12:55 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
Agilucho previously said:

Nagua has the culture, that's for sure.



A more expansive view of "El Cibao" is historically speaking closer to the truth. Some might not like the historical facts, but this is not about exclusivity. Modernization has blurred some of the unifying traits perhaps, but if you dig down deep enough you just might realize the overall justice of the term to encompass the wide area, from border to coast to Samana Bay


"El Cibao Adentro" is another sub-theme, and refers the to inner recesses or "los campos de Santiago" the nerve center of the region. Musically referenced, the term applies to Tactico Henriguez de Nagua and El Ceiguito de Nagua y El Ceiguito de Jacagua y Fefita la Grande de La Linea.


Hey Atabey, I think this map conveys what you're trying to say, although I do agree with others on here that Samana should not be considered part of El Cibao although it is located in the region because I find it to be more closely related to Cocolo culture than typical Cibaeño culture:

Edited on 1/24/2011 1:01 PM by JEM237.
"Those who do not hate their own selfishness and regard themselves as more important than the rest of the world are blind because the truth lies elsewhere" - Blaise Pascal
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#86 - Posted 24 January 2011, 1:41 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Your map is old and is not correct. I have never hear of anyone from any coastal town say "yo soy dei cibao"


I suggest you take a trip to Cabrera, Rio San Juan, Nagua and Gaspar Hernandez and come back and make the same claim, you won't


You're right, according to this video.

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#87 - Posted 24 January 2011, 3:07 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:




Jenny, The Educator! Keep it up prima!

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#88 - Posted 24 January 2011, 3:10 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
guillermone previously said:

The map you see above is strictly a geopolitical demarcation which has been labeled "Cibao" is misleading and has little to do with the authentic regional cultural identity of the Cibaeño.


ominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24" target="_blank">http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~34413~1180043?qvq=qominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24

Take a look at this French made Map of the entire island and notice how far the Plains o Llanos de la Vega Real expanded. All the way to Samaná Bay Again, I think that what is "El Cibao" is subject to time and place. And the areas or sectors/divisions once large and over encompassing have gained more differentiation as modernization and development has progressed.



We had a vaery heated discussion on this before...I don't want to ruffle any feathers..but again, If you live near the beach, not from the cibao...if you live near the border, tampoco...if you live south of Bonao (la puerta del Cibao entrando por la capital), eres sureño.



Sorry Cib, just like I told xwill, please take a trip to towns of Cabrera, Rio San Juan, Gaspar Hernandez and Nagua and see for yourself if these people do not represent what you would consider to be Cibaeño culture. You might be surprised.



I've frequented those towns many times in my life..sorry, pero eso no es el Cibao. El Cibaeño no vive a la vera de playa, somo gente de TIERRA ADENTRO, lomeros, etc.. That the people there have affinities to us..given..it's not like they're located in some other country after all...but certainly another region.
Edited on 1/24/2011 3:16 PM by cibaeño75.
"To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" - Voltaire
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#89 - Posted 24 January 2011, 3:14 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
cibaeño75 previously said:

Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
guillermone previously said:

The map you see above is strictly a geopolitical demarcation which has been labeled "Cibao" is misleading and has little to do with the authentic regional cultural identity of the Cibaeño.


ominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24" target="_blank">http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~34413~1180043?qvq=qominican+Republic;sortub_Date,Pub_List_No,Series_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=11&trs=24

Take a look at this French made Map of the entire island and notice how far the Plains o Llanos de la Vega Real expanded. All the way to Samaná Bay Again, I think that what is "El Cibao" is subject to time and place. And the areas or sectors/divisions once large and over encompassing have gained more differentiation as modernization and development has progressed.



We had a vaery heated discussion on this before...I don't want to ruffle any feathers..but again, If you live near the beach, not from the cibao...if you live near the border, tampoco...if you live south of Bonao (la puerta del Cibao entrando por la capital), eres sureño.



Sorry Cib, just like I told xwill, please take a trip to towns of Cabrera, Rio San Juan, Gaspar Hernandez and Nagua and see for yourself if these people do not represent what you would consider to be Cibaeño culture. You might be surprised.



I've frequented those towns many times in my life..soryy, pero eso no es el Cibao. El Cibaeño no vive a la vera de playa, somo gente de TIERRA ADENTRO, lomeros, etc.. That the people there have affinities to us..given..it's not like they're located in some other country after all...but certainly another region.

Just because some merengero were born there... Many don't live the lifestyle at those coastal towns
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#90 - Posted 24 January 2011, 3:20 PM
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RE: Cibao question
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
Agilucho previously said:

Nagua has the culture, that's for sure.



A more expansive view of "El Cibao" is historically speaking closer to the truth. Some might not like the historical facts, but this is not about exclusivity. Modernization has blurred some of the unifying traits perhaps, but if you dig down deep enough you just might realize the overall justice of the term to encompass the wide area, from border to coast to Samana Bay


"El Cibao Adentro" is another sub-theme, and refers the to inner recesses or "los campos de Santiago" the nerve center of the region. Musically referenced, the term applies to Tactico Henriguez de Nagua and El Ceiguito de Nagua y El Ceiguito de Jacagua y Fefita la Grande de La Linea.


Hey Atabey, I think this map conveys what you're trying to say, although I do agree with others on here that Samana should not be considered part of El Cibao although it is located in the region because I find it to be more closely related to Cocolo culture than typical Cibaeño culture:





Excellent JEM237. This map above is more detailed but is steadfast in the general overview of the historical El Cibao Region. Modernization and migratory movements have blurred some important distinctions, but El Cibao is not a narrow geographical concept en el país. "Cibao adentro" is but a sub-set of the generalized statement of geographic fact.

Thanks again, JEM237

I think we have two camps emerging on this issue:

1. The Generalist or Regionalism Camp.

2. The Exclusivist or Parochialism Camp.

Count me as part of the first group. But I respect Primo's take
Edited on 1/24/2011 3:30 PM by Atabey.

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