Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » US$110 billion in infrastructure
#21 - Posted 7 October 2011, 2:29 PM
Location: United States, Quisqueya
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
anthonyC previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:


6. Employees will not work on certain religious and celebratory days, even if their life depended on it, and can not be induced even by offers of two times the usual pay rates.



Try to get any serious work done during Easter week or between Christmas and 3 Kings Day. Unless it is certain retail outlets or restaurants you are just wasting your time.


I remember as it was today, an event a few years ago, of a letter of credit that one of the conditions must be that: "shipment must be completed by December 31 ST", and I needed to fill up a container because "partial shipments were not allowed".
I had a meeting with all the one hundred or so employees and they all agreed that they will show up on New years eve, to finish labeling and packing in boxes the merchandise, and get double the usual hourly rate.
You know how many showed up?
Not one.
I had to gather all the office staff, including myself, to load the boxes on the container, and had to have the L/C amended later, at another cost, to ship after January 6 TH, (Reyes or 3 kings day).
That is the way that business is done in DR, and is not only the lowest manual laborers, but the tendency goes all the way to the top, and even the foreign workers get infected with the laziness bug after time.
Edited on 10/7/2011 2:32 PM by generoso.
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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#22 - Posted 7 October 2011, 2:29 PM
Location: United States
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
General, thanks a lot for speaking truth to power. i am glad that you sad these things, so i do not have to do so myself, and incur the wrath of Atabey. my buddy was visiting from the USA last week, and he wanted to buy an article. we were told that the chinese store sold it. well, there are two, back to back, so, we went to the closest one first. a Dominican girls was apparently running the place. she sat on a chair, and we were looking around to see if we could find the item. she had no interest in asking if she could help. finally, he asked her for the article, which she said she did not carry, but the other store did. fast forward to the second store...run by a chinese lady. as soon as we got through the door, she came running over, to help us get the matter done. customer service. we were in and out in no time. they understand business. we do not.
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#23 - Posted 7 October 2011, 2:51 PM
Location: United States, Quisqueya
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

General, thanks a lot for speaking truth to power. i am glad that you sad these things, so i do not have to do so myself, and incur the wrath of Atabey. my buddy was visiting from the USA last week, and he wanted to buy an article. we were told that the chinese store sold it. well, there are two, back to back, so, we went to the closest one first. a Dominican girls was apparently running the place. she sat on a chair, and we were looking around to see if we could find the item. she had no interest in asking if she could help. finally, he asked her for the article, which she said she did not carry, but the other store did. fast forward to the second store...run by a chinese lady. as soon as we got through the door, she came running over, to help us get the matter done. customer service. we were in and out in no time. they understand business. we do not.


Being Dominican, but also being bicultural and having lived and worked in both countries affords me this understanding, and it is not a desire to bash anyone, but to simply admit our limitations.
In DR there is a big problem with quality control, work discipline, and focusing on the tasks. You experienced this first hand in going to the Chinese store. You will probably find that the girl at the counter was dressed to the max, was filing or had her nails done, was wearing high heel shoes, and was probably texting or playing with her cellular phone, or worse, was constantly chatting on the telephone. Also she was probably banging the married Chinese owner of the store, looking to get pregnant, so she can happily retire.
Edited on 10/7/2011 2:52 PM by generoso.
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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#24 - Posted 7 October 2011, 4:55 PM
Location: United Kingdom, Dominican Republic
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
False expectations.
Working on holidays is taboo in many countries - In Scotland for instance all factories large and small are inclined to shut down for 2 weeks over Xmas / New Year. There is no one working. Scotland by the way is one of the biggest exporters per capita in Europe, In Southern Germany there are many public holidays and no-one works. If there is extra work to be done overtime is worked the preceding weeks .

Dominicans do of course work a longer week that France's 35- 37 or Germany 38. The German working week is 4 1/2 days although many companies are working 3 or 4 day weeks now with the government subsidizing wages.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8246

Of course with unemployment DR working week should be reduced.

S.




Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
anthonyC previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:


6. Employees will not work on certain religious and celebratory days, even if their life depended on it, and can not be induced even by offers of two times the usual pay rates.



Try to get any serious work done during Easter week or between Christmas and 3 Kings Day. Unless it is certain retail outlets or restaurants you are just wasting your time.


I remember as it was today, an event a few years ago, of a letter of credit that one of the conditions must be that: "shipment must be completed by December 31 ST", and I needed to fill up a container because "partial shipments were not allowed".
I had a meeting with all the one hundred or so employees and they all agreed that they will show up on New years eve, to finish labeling and packing in boxes the merchandise, and get double the usual hourly rate.
You know how many showed up?
Not one.
I had to gather all the office staff, including myself, to load the boxes on the container, and had to have the L/C amended later, at another cost, to ship after January 6 TH, (Reyes or 3 kings day).
That is the way that business is done in DR, and is not only the lowest manual laborers, but the tendency goes all the way to the top, and even the foreign workers get infected with the laziness bug after time.

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#25 - Posted 7 October 2011, 4:55 PM
Location: United States, NYC
Join date: October 2009
Member #: 3761
Posts: 12104
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

General, thanks a lot for speaking truth to power. i am glad that you sad these things, so i do not have to do so myself, and incur the wrath of Atabey. my buddy was visiting from the USA last week, and he wanted to buy an article. we were told that the chinese store sold it. well, there are two, back to back, so, we went to the closest one first. a Dominican girls was apparently running the place. she sat on a chair, and we were looking around to see if we could find the item. she had no interest in asking if she could help. finally, he asked her for the article, which she said she did not carry, but the other store did. fast forward to the second store...run by a chinese lady. as soon as we got through the door, she came running over, to help us get the matter done. customer service. we were in and out in no time. they understand business. we do not.


Being Dominican, but also being bicultural and having lived and worked in both countries affords me this understanding, and it is not a desire to bash anyone, but to simply admit our limitations.
In DR there is a big problem with quality control, work discipline, and focusing on the tasks. You experienced this first hand in going to the Chinese store. You will probably find that the girl at the counter was dressed to the max, was filing or had her nails done, was wearing high heel shoes, and was probably texting or playing with her cellular phone, or worse, was constantly chatting on the telephone. Also she was probably banging the married Chinese owner of the store, looking to get pregnant, so she can happily retire.




What you state Generoso and others regarding the organizational deficiencies and other poor practices endemic to the DR are not to be taken lightly, as they are expressions of real outcomes. I have stated on a number of occasions that a turnabout from these deficiencies will not be easy, but will entail an enormous shift in attitudes and resources to make headway against the established norm of operation in DR. But again, I note more than a strain of apathy and resignation on the part of many here in regards a possible shift in the future. Dready you head the list. I understand the apprehension and having been raised aboard understand every-time I visit my homeland the deficiencies you speak of as my relations in the DR offer their critical take on matters.

Let me put it plainly: DR will not remotely achieve a South Korean economic take-off. However, it is not out of the question to think DR might achieve a much higher level of material and economic well being for a significantly greater number of her inhabitants in the future IF THE LEADERSHIP of the nation proves worthy. All the conditions that my old professor stated are still present; sure we have the difficult issue of Haitians more in evidence, but even that greater problem can be configured to promote the material happiness of many on the island. All that's needed is a break from the poor practices by the DR leadership groups. Habits such as time management and resource management can be corrected and the Dominican people, like any other group of humans can be motivated by material progress to leave behind poor work habits and other deficiencies endemic in the DR. Many have when given opportunities aboard
Edited on 10/7/2011 8:23 PM by Atabey.

"If you want to sleep well at night, it's best to avoid watching the making of sausages or politics." Otto Von Bismarck
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#26 - Posted 7 October 2011, 5:19 PM
Location: United States
Join date: June 2008
Member #: 933
Posts: 7988
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
anthonyC previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:


6. Employees will not work on certain religious and celebratory days, even if their life depended on it, and can not be induced even by offers of two times the usual pay rates.



Try to get any serious work done during Easter week or between Christmas and 3 Kings Day. Unless it is certain retail outlets or restaurants you are just wasting your time.


I remember as it was today, an event a few years ago, of a letter of credit that one of the conditions must be that: "shipment must be completed by December 31 ST", and I needed to fill up a container because "partial shipments were not allowed".
I had a meeting with all the one hundred or so employees and they all agreed that they will show up on New years eve, to finish labeling and packing in boxes the merchandise, and get double the usual hourly rate.
You know how many showed up?
Not one.
I had to gather all the office staff, including myself, to load the boxes on the container, and had to have the L/C amended later, at another cost, to ship after January 6 TH, (Reyes or 3 kings day).
That is the way that business is done in DR, and is not only the lowest manual laborers, but the tendency goes all the way to the top, and even the foreign workers get infected with the laziness bug after time.



I never caught that bug. I made my money until I couldn't stand it any more. Sold it all and bailed!!!

I still do the occasional business deal in the D.R. but with personal restrictions.

Restriction #1.........I don't lift a finger until the money is in US Bank. No Credit

Restriction #2.........As soon as the product is in Dominican Territory it stops being my problem and becomes theirs.

Restriction #3........I don't care is it is a holiday down there. Wanna do business with me? You need my product or service? It is my time. I'll give ya Christmas Day and New Year's Day. Other than those it is "Lets make some money day"

It is sad that I have to work that way and I am not alone. Many companies have been burned so much that it hurts the D.R. economically.
Proof of dreadlocks Bigotry.
"....... what did Cubans do to deserve preferential treatment?......and treat Black people in the most racist of ways.......... the Cubans are just a bunch of uberracist savages."
: I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY POSTS BY THE BIGOT KNOWN AS DREADLOCKS.
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#27 - Posted 7 October 2011, 6:03 PM
Location: United States, Quisqueya
Join date: August 2008
Member #: 1291
Posts: 9150
Send Message
RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

General, thanks a lot for speaking truth to power. i am glad that you sad these things, so i do not have to do so myself, and incur the wrath of Atabey. my buddy was visiting from the USA last week, and he wanted to buy an article. we were told that the chinese store sold it. well, there are two, back to back, so, we went to the closest one first. a Dominican girls was apparently running the place. she sat on a chair, and we were looking around to see if we could find the item. she had no interest in asking if she could help. finally, he asked her for the article, which she said she did not carry, but the other store did. fast forward to the second store...run by a chinese lady. as soon as we got through the door, she came running over, to help us get the matter done. customer service. we were in and out in no time. they understand business. we do not.


Being Dominican, but also being bicultural and having lived and worked in both countries affords me this understanding, and it is not a desire to bash anyone, but to simply admit our limitations.
In DR there is a big problem with quality control, work discipline, and focusing on the tasks. You experienced this first hand in going to the Chinese store. You will probably find that the girl at the counter was dressed to the max, was filing or had her nails done, was wearing high heel shoes, and was probably texting or playing with her cellular phone, or worse, was constantly chatting on the telephone. Also she was probably banging the married Chinese owner of the store, looking to get pregnant, so she can happily retire.




What you state Generoso and others regarding the organizational deficiencies and other poor practices endemic to the DR are not to be taken likely, as they are expressions of real outcomes. I have stated on a number of occasions that a turnabout from these deficiencies will not be easy, but will entail an enormous shift in attitudes and resources to make headway against the established norm of operation in DR. But again, I note more than a strain of apathy and resignation on the part of many here in regards a possible shift in the future. Dready you head the list. I understand the apprehension and having been raised aboard understand every-time I visit my homeland the deficiencies you speak of as my relations in the DR offer their critical take on matters.

Let me put it plainly: DR will not remotely achieve a South Korean economic take-off. However, it is not out of the question to think DR might achieve a much higher level of material and economic well being for a significantly greater number of her inhabitants in the future IF THE LEADERSHIP of the nation proves worthy. All the conditions that my old professor stated are still present; sure we have the difficult issue of Haitians more in evidence, but even that greater problem can be configured to promote the material happiness of many on the island. All that's needed is a break from the poor practices by the DR leadership groups. Habits such as time management and resource management can be corrected and the Dominican people, like any other group of humans can be motivated by material progress to leave behind poor work habits and other deficiencies endemic in the DR. Many have when given opportunities aboard



You could have said all that in fewer words. We are all talking about the present, not the future. I certainly do hope that employee productivity does improve for the country's sake. Let me be the devil's advocate here: Do you know why many employer's prefer to hire Haitian construction and agricultural workers rather than Dominican?
I will tell you a few reasons:
Haitians are very resilient, they work for less, but they also need fewer breaks, are more focused, hard working, complain less, and don't rush to leave early.
You hire a Haitian to dig a hole in the ground, and you have to stop him, otherwise he will dig all the way to China. No kidding.
I do not blame poor leadership for the problems, but inherited generational laziness and inclinations to party all the time. That is why the immigrant groups have prospered and became rich, because the immigrants worked 18 hours, and where frugal spending their moneys and saving for later investments.
Edited on 10/9/2011 12:37 PM by generoso.
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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#28 - Posted 7 October 2011, 8:16 PM
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
General, i went to Santiago 2 years ago to buy a surround for a speaker, as mine has crystallized. i noticed the the guy had the tools to instal it, so, rather than bothering to hassle with it myself, i decided to pay him to do it. he told me the price, 70 pesos, and i told him to go ahead. he told me it would take 20 minutes, but that i would have to come back at 2pm. why, you ask? well, it was 10 minutes to 12 noon, and he could never violate the existential law of nature in the DR which states that one should never be caught working at 12.05pm. so, rather than make 70 pesos, and stick around for 10 minutes, he expected me to come back 2 hours later. i fixed it myself, and , at the end of the day, he was 70 pesos short. that would never happen in a society that values work and diligence.
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#29 - Posted 7 October 2011, 8:37 PM
Location: United States, NYC
Join date: October 2009
Member #: 3761
Posts: 12104
Send Message
RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
Atabey previously said:

Quote:
generoso previously said:

Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

General, thanks a lot for speaking truth to power. i am glad that you sad these things, so i do not have to do so myself, and incur the wrath of Atabey. my buddy was visiting from the USA last week, and he wanted to buy an article. we were told that the chinese store sold it. well, there are two, back to back, so, we went to the closest one first. a Dominican girls was apparently running the place. she sat on a chair, and we were looking around to see if we could find the item. she had no interest in asking if she could help. finally, he asked her for the article, which she said she did not carry, but the other store did. fast forward to the second store...run by a chinese lady. as soon as we got through the door, she came running over, to help us get the matter done. customer service. we were in and out in no time. they understand business. we do not.


Being Dominican, but also being bicultural and having lived and worked in both countries affords me this understanding, and it is not a desire to bash anyone, but to simply admit our limitations.
In DR there is a big problem with quality control, work discipline, and focusing on the tasks. You experienced this first hand in going to the Chinese store. You will probably find that the girl at the counter was dressed to the max, was filing or had her nails done, was wearing high heel shoes, and was probably texting or playing with her cellular phone, or worse, was constantly chatting on the telephone. Also she was probably banging the married Chinese owner of the store, looking to get pregnant, so she can happily retire.




What you state Generoso and others regarding the organizational deficiencies and other poor practices endemic to the DR are not to be taken likely, as they are expressions of real outcomes. I have stated on a number of occasions that a turnabout from these deficiencies will not be easy, but will entail an enormous shift in attitudes and resources to make headway against the established norm of operation in DR. But again, I note more than a strain of apathy and resignation on the part of many here in regards a possible shift in the future. Dready you head the list. I understand the apprehension and having been raised aboard understand every-time I visit my homeland the deficiencies you speak of as my relations in the DR offer their critical take on matters.

Let me put it plainly: DR will not remotely achieve a South Korean economic take-off. However, it is not out of the question to think DR might achieve a much higher level of material and economic well being for a significantly greater number of her inhabitants in the future IF THE LEADERSHIP of the nation proves worthy. All the conditions that my old professor stated are still present; sure we have the difficult issue of Haitians more in evidence, but even that greater problem can be configured to promote the material happiness of many on the island. All that's needed is a break from the poor practices by the DR leadership groups. Habits such as time management and resource management can be corrected and the Dominican people, like any other group of humans can be motivated by material progress to leave behind poor work habits and other deficiencies endemic in the DR. Many have when given opportunities aboard



You could have said all that in fewer words. We are all talking about the present, not the future. I certainly do hope that employee productivity does improve for the country's sake. Let me be the devil's advocate here: Do you know why many employer's prefer to hire Haitian construction and agricultural workers rather than Dominican?
I will tell you a few reasons:
Haitians are very resilient, they work for less, but they also need fewer breaks, are more focused, hard working, complain less, and don't rush to leave early.
You hire a Haitian to dig a hole in the ground, and you have to stop him, otherwise he will dig all the way to China. No kidding.
I do not blame poor leadership for the problems, but genetic laziness and inclinations to party all the time. That is why the immigrant groups have prospered and became rich, because the immigrants worked 18 hours, and where frugal spending their moneys and saving for later investments.



Unless you're paying for the bits on DT, I think I'll express myself in the number of digits I choose.

I don't buy your "genetic laziness" thesis as the basis for Dominican low productivity. Were it so, Dominicans aboard would still have this same genetic defect affecting their productivity. And clearly when offered an opportunity to engage in business, many have prospered outside. So that theory does not wash Haitians work harder than Dominicans because they have less access to opportunities and don't have the safety net that many Dominicans possess via capital transfers from aboard.

Poor leadership on the part of the various elite groupings is one of the major issues holding back Dominican productivity. The fish rots from the head.



"If you want to sleep well at night, it's best to avoid watching the making of sausages or politics." Otto Von Bismarck
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#30 - Posted 7 October 2011, 8:44 PM
Location: United States, Quisqueya
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RE: Differences between Korea and DR
Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

General, i went to Santiago 2 years ago to buy a surround for a speaker, as mine has crystallized. i noticed the the guy had the tools to instal it, so, rather than bothering to hassle with it myself, i decided to pay him to do it. he told me the price, 70 pesos, and i told him to go ahead. he told me it would take 20 minutes, but that i would have to come back at 2pm. why, you ask? well, it was 10 minutes to 12 noon, and he could never violate the existential law of nature in the DR which states that one should never be caught working at 12.05pm. so, rather than make 70 pesos, and stick around for 10 minutes, he expected me to come back 2 hours later. i fixed it myself, and , at the end of the day, he was 70 pesos short. that would never happen in a society that values work and diligence.


That was funny, but also true, we all have stories like that, and let's be honest it is all part of living in an island paradise, with perfect spring like weather year round. When Columbus came to DR the native Taino indians where no different, they had an uneventful life, lounged around in their hammocks, ate coconuts, drank fermented juice, and got high smoking flowers, and if hungry grabbed a conch in shallow waters, and be done with worrying about what to eat all day.
We are spoiled in DR, by living in our island paradise, and are not very ambitious like other civilizations.
There was a book I read once, about how the change in weather affects productivity, in different countries. We don't have a bad winter in the caribbean, so we really don't have to worry a lot about storing food, (saving), or making sure there is enough firewood, to keep us warm.
Can you imagine if we had a bad winter, what would happen to the Haitians?
Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever.
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