Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
#21 - Posted 4 November 2011, 1:08 AM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

I have one problem with the topic which is that Dominican Spanish is NOT the same as Spanish from Spain, it is very similar yes, and it has some andalucian influences and canarian influences, but the way Canarians and Andalucians drop the S'es is different, in the sense that Andalucians and Canarians replace with S's with a silent J, kinda a semi-spitting sound. Mujereh vs Mujere, D.R tends to completely analiate the S, while andalucian/canarians replace it with a semi-silent J. Which might be moorish influence.

We have way too much Taino and African words for us to be anywhere near Castillian spanish. Our native and African infleunce language wise is very much present in the vocabulary although not as strong in the grammar, as most of our grammar is still spanish. We probably have more Native and African words then Haitian Kreyol, while Haitian kreyol is completely African in grammar, but with more French vocabulary.

Spanish is not PURE language, at all. Spanish is actually a bastard child of Latin and Arabic, with sprinkles of Basque and other influences. A considerable amount of the spanish language is arabic.

So who is to say that our Dominican Spanish is wrong? badly spoken? or slang? I find this to be small-minded. I am a Cibaenyo and we have a way of speaking with our i's sometimes the aspirating J's instead of H's, and a bunch of other language curiosities. I call a big kid a Lembote (A word of African origin), we call someone ugly a Camu (an indegenous word), there is too much richness in other influences in Dominican spanish for it to be considered slang. What most ppl dismiss as slang are simply non-spanish words that entered our language. Now the english words in our language are slang yes, because they are corrupted english words, urged in through colonialism. However they make up a very small part of our language in the D.R, very very very small.

So is Dominican spanish its own language, thats hard to say, some linguist consider it to be a creole language, some do not. I think that one of the biggest challenges we face is our OWN Ignorance into thinking the way we speak is wrong, and that castillian spanish is correct. THis is pure B.S, when spanish is not a pure language at all. Basque is a pure language, Spanish not so much. This is self-hate, of our own culture that is destroying our language, with every passing generation im seeing alot of things fade, although in the cibao we still keep our i's strong, but even that is being challenged by "education" or should i say "miseducation".

It is very sad that we did not value our form of speech from an early point in colonial history, had we done so we would have had a recognizable creole language, i mean come on, if american english is considered different from UK english, why not Dominican spanish? When its obviously alot more creolized. The same sadness has happened to Afro-americans who are told ebonics is slang. That is B.S specially, the older forms of Ebonics are simply African influenced.

I think we need to keep our culture alive, and language is the basis of culture, once we loose our language, our culture follows to be wiped out. Our form of spanish is VERY necesary for cultural survival. You cannot make jokes properly that have been learnt in d.r without our speech, our swing, or our flow. You cannot sing perico ripiao properly unless its sung in a Dominican accent, creole, etc. Can you imagine Antonio Banderas singing la chiflera? It just wouldn't sound right, or fit in rythmically with the Tambora and would not fit properly on the musical scale of the accordion.

Another thing that is special about Dominican spanish are its tonalities, specially in singing. There is both moorish/canarian influence and West African influence in our singing, we use more tonalities in our singing, something which most African languages are abundant in. If you listne to Tatico Henriquez and Guandulito you will hear alot of these tonalities, they are present in Palo, Salves, PriPri, Mangulina and Carabine as well.

"I have one problem with the topic which is that Dominican Spanish is NOT the same as Spanish from Spain"

Nobody on this thread said that so quit making up lies. Figures with the Pan African agenda you have.


Yes one of hte posters in the first few posts said that with "education" our spanish will be corrected. As if we are speaking wrong. And no, this is not pan-african propaganda. I can cite many sources for everything im saying and linguist papers, there has been some linguistic work done on Dominican spanish by a few linguist, Katherine Greene being one of them. I heavily mentioned the indegenous influence as well, how come i am pan-africanist but not pan-indigenist? Double standard? No se puede tapa el sol con un dedo, its pretty obvious that our form of Spanish has plenty of non-spanish influences.
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#22 - Posted 4 November 2011, 12:00 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Lemba, What spanish do they speak in Samana which is outside of El Cibao?
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#23 - Posted 4 November 2011, 12:55 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Edwin514 previously said:

Like the others have already stated, you should learn proper spanish first and then progress to learning dominican spanish. As you may already know, dominican spanish is FULL of slang and phrases that make dominicans sound, well, dominican. It's even sometimes considered the worst dialect of spanish in Latin America, hinting at its peculiarity and difficulty. We drop s's and d's etc. and speak fast. We just fuck up shit lol.

It's kind of like trying to learn Jamaican patois without knowing any english.

Have a foundation of Spanish first, so it makes learning any other dialects easier. Then just hang around dominicans, listen to our music (if you like), and just immerse yourself in our culture.

"It's even sometimes considered the worst dialect of spanish in Latin America, hinting at its peculiarity and difficulty". "We drop s's and d's etc. and speak fast. We just fuck up shit" lol.

I totally do not agree with your comments on Dominican Spanish... The origen of Dominican Spanish in pronunciations with words in their syllables comes from the Canary Islands and the Andalusian regions of Spain. We actually have retained some of the purest forms of Spanish from the earlier days than say a country like Mexico. Mexico resisted any form of Andalusian Spanish to the utmost which explains the heavy usage of the letter S.




The actual orgin of dominican spanish comes from the mixture of African slaves, Spanish conquisadors and Tiano Indians who are well extinct. To learn moreabout this simply send me a PM and I will give the full and correct history of Dominican Spanish.
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#24 - Posted 4 November 2011, 1:08 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Lemba, What spanish do they speak in Samana which is outside of El Cibao?


Same Spanish as the rest of the cibao since it's part of the Cibao. However where Samana is unique is that there is a very small enclave in El Limon where the descendants of French-CReole speakers from Lousiana settled, this is before the Afro-americans who spoke english settled. And they brought Bambula wtih them, and a language that got baptized Samane, whichc mixes Lousiana creole with Cibao Spanish, and English. The last Samane speaker died a few years ago. This was our own native creole, not related to Haitian creole. But due to how small that community was and how quickly the language was replaced, it never continued. Had it been a bigger community it would have lasted longer.

There are some stories of Dominicans speaking weird languages and creoels in the countryside. One in particular i am curious to investigate, in the duarte province inpimentel, supposedly there where or is a couple of families that spoke some unintieligible language. Im guessing these pocket languages existed in much greater variety in the past.

As a whole Cibao spanish has changed alot and it largely varies per family.

For example alot of my Santiaguero friends use Taita for father, a Taino word, althouh also not far from the Kongolese word for Father, Tata. But with the i in the middle its Taino.

Meanwhile my grandmother in s.f.m has a myriad of African words in her repertoire and this is only a franction of what my great grandmother would say.

Some examples are

Guimbo = Something off place
Lembote/Lembota = Someone who is tall and strong
Bembetear = Talk alot
Kutuco = Children
Kin = Con Gana
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#25 - Posted 4 November 2011, 1:41 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Same Spanish as the rest of the cibao since it's part of the Cibao.



Wow. Talk about a lie of epic proportions . Although Samana is technically located in the northern half of the island and next to several Cibaeño provinces, Samana is in no way, shape or form Cibao nor is their Spanish spoken like a Cibaeño. One of my uncles is married to a lady from Samana and like many of the people of Samana she is of "cocolo" descent, although she is a mulatta with light green eyes. Samana's culture is greatly influenced by Cocolo culture - to the point that many natives from there have English last names and can speak English as well. Seriously, stop trying to impose that Samana is Cibao, because it is FAR from it. Now, Cabrera for example, is a different story althogether. This small town is by the beach but the culture is Cibaeño starting with the vernacular, mannerisms and down to the typical look of the people of this town which is European or Taino-looking.
Edited on 11/4/2011 1:42 PM by JEM237.
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#26 - Posted 4 November 2011, 1:51 PM
Location: Dominican Republic
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Same Spanish as the rest of the cibao since it's part of the Cibao.



Wow. Talk about a lie of epic proportions . Although Samana is technically located in the northern half of the island and next to several Cibaeño provinces, Samana is in no way, shape or form Cibao nor is their Spanish spoken like a Cibaeño. One of my uncles is married to a lady from Samana and like many of the people of Samana she is of "cocolo" descent, although she is a mulatta with light green eyes. Samana's culture is greatly influenced by Cocolo culture - to the point that many natives from there have English last names and can speak English as well. Seriously, stop trying to impose that Samana is Cibao, because it is FAR from it. Now, Cabrera for example, is a different story althogether. This small town is by the beach but the culture is Cibaeño starting with the vernacular, mannerisms and down to the typical look of the people of this town which is European or Taino-looking.


Ive met plenty of Samanese in s.f.m that spoke with the i. I have also met the cocolo descent ones that don't just like the Lebanese descent francomacorisanos did not speak with the i until the last generation. I even posted a few videos in the other thread of people from Las Terrenas speakign with the i. THe Cocolo culture in Samana is not a majority. Samana city is only one city in the whole province. Thats like saying that you met a Francomacorisano of lebanese descent who didnt speak wtih the i so no one in s.f.m speaks with the i.

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#27 - Posted 4 November 2011, 1:52 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Here is one video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEKZDwQ0kac
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#28 - Posted 4 November 2011, 2:01 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
JEM237 previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Same Spanish as the rest of the cibao since it's part of the Cibao.



Wow. Talk about a lie of epic proportions . Although Samana is technically located in the northern half of the island and next to several Cibaeño provinces, Samana is in no way, shape or form Cibao nor is their Spanish spoken like a Cibaeño. One of my uncles is married to a lady from Samana and like many of the people of Samana she is of "cocolo" descent, although she is a mulatta with light green eyes. Samana's culture is greatly influenced by Cocolo culture - to the point that many natives from there have English last names and can speak English as well. Seriously, stop trying to impose that Samana is Cibao, because it is FAR from it. Now, Cabrera for example, is a different story althogether. This small town is by the beach but the culture is Cibaeño starting with the vernacular, mannerisms and down to the typical look of the people of this town which is European or Taino-looking.



I keep telling Lemba the same thing, that the Cibaeno culture is predominately made up of people who are rustic/rural, with a Mediterranean swarthy-complexion, strong Spanish/European culture yet still present Taino influences. He seems to want for some reason to over emphasize what ever African elements present in the region and minimize the european, when in fact the cibao is the only one single place where African characteristics is not accentuated as much as in other regions of the DR.
Edited on 11/4/2011 2:04 PM by guillermone.
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#29 - Posted 4 November 2011, 2:01 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Lemba previously said:

I have one problem with the topic which is that Dominican Spanish is NOT the same as Spanish from Spain, it is very similar yes, and it has some andalucian influences and canarian influences, but the way Canarians and Andalucians drop the S'es is different, in the sense that Andalucians and Canarians replace with S's with a silent J, kinda a semi-spitting sound. Mujereh vs Mujere, D.R tends to completely analiate the S, while andalucian/canarians replace it with a semi-silent J. Which might be moorish influence.

We have way too much Taino and African words for us to be anywhere near Castillian spanish. Our native and African infleunce language wise is very much present in the vocabulary although not as strong in the grammar, as most of our grammar is still spanish. We probably have more Native and African words then Haitian Kreyol, while Haitian kreyol is completely African in grammar, but with more French vocabulary.

Spanish is not PURE language, at all. Spanish is actually a bastard child of Latin and Arabic, with sprinkles of Basque and other influences. A considerable amount of the spanish language is arabic.

So who is to say that our Dominican Spanish is wrong? badly spoken? or slang? I find this to be small-minded. I am a Cibaenyo and we have a way of speaking with our i's sometimes the aspirating J's instead of H's, and a bunch of other language curiosities. I call a big kid a Lembote (A word of African origin), we call someone ugly a Camu (an indegenous word), there is too much richness in other influences in Dominican spanish for it to be considered slang. What most ppl dismiss as slang are simply non-spanish words that entered our language. Now the english words in our language are slang yes, because they are corrupted english words, urged in through colonialism. However they make up a very small part of our language in the D.R, very very very small.

So is Dominican spanish its own language, thats hard to say, some linguist consider it to be a creole language, some do not. I think that one of the biggest challenges we face is our OWN Ignorance into thinking the way we speak is wrong, and that castillian spanish is correct. THis is pure B.S, when spanish is not a pure language at all. Basque is a pure language, Spanish not so much. This is self-hate, of our own culture that is destroying our language, with every passing generation im seeing alot of things fade, although in the cibao we still keep our i's strong, but even that is being challenged by "education" or should i say "miseducation".

It is very sad that we did not value our form of speech from an early point in colonial history, had we done so we would have had a recognizable creole language, i mean come on, if american english is considered different from UK english, why not Dominican spanish? When its obviously alot more creolized. The same sadness has happened to Afro-americans who are told ebonics is slang. That is B.S specially, the older forms of Ebonics are simply African influenced.

I think we need to keep our culture alive, and language is the basis of culture, once we loose our language, our culture follows to be wiped out. Our form of spanish is VERY necesary for cultural survival. You cannot make jokes properly that have been learnt in d.r without our speech, our swing, or our flow. You cannot sing perico ripiao properly unless its sung in a Dominican accent, creole, etc. Can you imagine Antonio Banderas singing la chiflera? It just wouldn't sound right, or fit in rythmically with the Tambora and would not fit properly on the musical scale of the accordion.

Another thing that is special about Dominican spanish are its tonalities, specially in singing. There is both moorish/canarian influence and West African influence in our singing, we use more tonalities in our singing, something which most African languages are abundant in. If you listne to Tatico Henriquez and Guandulito you will hear alot of these tonalities, they are present in Palo, Salves, PriPri, Mangulina and Carabine as well.


I think you misundertood what was being said by mirabal and guillermone. I do not see where they said that we speak Castilian - they clearly stated that Dominican Spanish stems from Andalusian Spanish. I actually saw a special on TVE (Television Española) a while back where there was a study conducted regarding the Spanish spoken in DR, PR, Cuba and Venezuela and it concluded with all of these forms of Spanish originated from Andalusian and/or Canary Island Spanish but most Andalusian. Even Andalusian Spaniards that live in the Caribbean have said that Cubans, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans are the 'Andalusians of America'. You keep saying that you don't have a Pan-African agenda but it seems that every time anyone here makes a statement where our European or Taino heritage is highlighted there is always some Pan-African or Afro-Nazi that comes and tries to Africanize it. Why can't you accept that there are in fact many things in Dominican culture that are NOT of African origin? Why the insistence on shoving African culture down our throats? No one here denies our very obvious African cultural and racial components but that doesn't mean we have to wear it on our sleeve 24/7. Whether you like it or not, Dominican culture is an Iberoamerican culture with African and Taino influences and NOT the other way around. Get over it already.
Edited on 11/4/2011 2:03 PM by JEM237.
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#30 - Posted 4 November 2011, 2:47 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
brasilenosisback previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Edwin514 previously said:

Like the others have already stated, you should learn proper spanish first and then progress to learning dominican spanish. As you may already know, dominican spanish is FULL of slang and phrases that make dominicans sound, well, dominican. It's even sometimes considered the worst dialect of spanish in Latin America, hinting at its peculiarity and difficulty. We drop s's and d's etc. and speak fast. We just fuck up shit lol.

It's kind of like trying to learn Jamaican patois without knowing any english.

Have a foundation of Spanish first, so it makes learning any other dialects easier. Then just hang around dominicans, listen to our music (if you like), and just immerse yourself in our culture.

"It's even sometimes considered the worst dialect of spanish in Latin America, hinting at its peculiarity and difficulty". "We drop s's and d's etc. and speak fast. We just fuck up shit" lol.

I totally do not agree with your comments on Dominican Spanish... The origen of Dominican Spanish in pronunciations with words in their syllables comes from the Canary Islands and the Andalusian regions of Spain. We actually have retained some of the purest forms of Spanish from the earlier days than say a country like Mexico. Mexico resisted any form of Andalusian Spanish to the utmost which explains the heavy usage of the letter S.




The actual orgin of dominican spanish comes from the mixture of African slaves, Spanish conquisadors and Tiano Indians who are well extinct. To learn moreabout this simply send me a PM and I will give the full and correct history of Dominican Spanish.

This is the funniest post that I have seen in a while It comes from Spain bro
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