Edwin514 previously said:


I'm just curious but X what is a "real cibaeño"? and why do you think he must be from a cross the border?

Lemba previously said:



This is where you are very wrong, on the racial components of the Cibao. It is very clear that the Cibao is tri-racial culturally, and there is no real Spanish dominance, our decima culture is very much dead. And our forms of Decima have deviated greatly from Spain. This is not to say there is obvious European influence in the cibao, for example Bachata is very European in its singing form as it is mostly sang in coplas. ALthough its drumming is obviously African, and its dancing as well. Our Perico ripiao and Palos is obviously very African influenced, i am speaking frmo the point of view of someone who plays music, is a musician, i can give you all the terms and all the details and nitty gritty upon request of why these genres are pred. African. Boleros however are very much spanish, but did not become common till the mexicans introduced them in the 1940s.

As far as looks, that is also very wrong. I think you are speaking for like Sajoma, And Sajoma only. Ive been to many parts of the cibao, grew up in san francisco de macoris, pimentel, caobete, and much of the duarte province, and there are PLENTY of people who don't fit that description. Places like s.f.m have both the phenotype you mentioned and the dark afro-inidegenous types, the dark west african looking type, and the str8 indegenous looking types. In places such as Pimentel, Caobete, Villa Riva, the predominant look of the population is Afro-indegenous and Griffe (pred. afro). Same can be said for most of Cotui, and a good chunk of Nagua. That is not to say that these mediterrenean looking types exist, they DO exist, but they are NOT the posterboys for Cibao looks. This stereotype ive only seen on the internet, and in person only from people who are not cibaenyos and have met 3 santiagueros, think eveyone in the cibao looks like that.

You just need to go on a bus from the Capital to Cotui and see the phenotypes on those buses, the voladora buses.

That stereotype clearly doesn't fit. I don't fit that steroetype, nor my father or my mother, not anyone in this or the last generation. But perhaps there are 2 of my great grandparents that do fit this stereotype, does that make them the only 2 cibaenyo looking ppl in my family? No, thats pretty stupid.

As far as me over-emphazising African characteristics, not true. I am simply stating the truth, the facts about our music and culture in the cibao, and in this case the speech, giving examples of my own family. And you guys KEEP ignoring the Indegenous element that i keep bringing up OVER and OVER, and so i am not indigenizing the cibao, but i am Africanizing it? There is not one post i have made where i dont include both. It is clear that you and some other people on this forum have an Agenda. I can see that there have been Afrocentric posters in the past hat have made you this jittery of hearing African contributions to the cibao/D.R. But keep in mind that i am not some Afrocentric troll, i don't argue for argue's sake, this is a academic debate, this is not about emotions or feelings. Everything i am telling you i can backup. Ive seen it twice already where i post about indegenous/afro contributions and the afro gets singled out.

IT is not true that the Cibao is less African culturally then the rest of the island. In fact there are places in the island which are MORE European, it all depends on the sub-region or town,city. It is true that Central Santiago and parts of La Vega have less African influence then say Salcedo, San Francisco de Macoris, Cotui, Dajabon, Samana, Puertoplata, Mao. But is Santiago and a corner of La Vega the whole cibao? No. So if your saying that Central-Santiago is less African culturally, perhaps that is debataable, the whole cibao not at all.

For comparisons sake lets compare Central Santiago with Bani.

While Bani has strong African influence such as Sarandunga, it also has very strong European influences. In fact, Bani has decimas just like Santiago, and ontop of that it ha Chuines which are Canarian descendant work songs, something absent in Santiago. And if you wana go by phenotypes white Banilejos look alot purer in an eyeball test then any self claimed white in Santiago. They are also less indegenous in Bani, while Santiago has more indegenous influence.

The Lack of Palo in some campos in Santiago is not due to lack of Africans but rather a different subset of Africans, the African component in these pred. European towns of Santiago is from teh first Africans to arrive on the island, the Mande, the Wolof and other Senengambian's. The Tambora from Merengue is CLEARLY a Mande/Bara instrument.

For Fun, here is a poster boy for a book on the Cibao, which i recomend for you to read, and anyone on this forum, to get an insight on the agrarian reforms and the ferrocarril, and other things Cibaenyo.

http://www.amazon.com/Los-Campesinos-del-Cibao-Transformacion/dp/0847702308

xwill7 previously said:


I have not seen many cibaenos like the one in that pic. In fact I think that he must be from across the border. Also, It is not just in Sajoma where you can find real cibaenos. I can name the towns if you need me to.

Perez previously said:



Hey Xwill, name them towns pa yo cojer pa'lla! jejejeje!!

JEM237 previously said:

I think you misundertood what was being said by mirabal and guillermone. I do not see where they said that we speak Castilian - they clearly stated that Dominican Spanish stems from Andalusian Spanish. I actually saw a special on TVE (Television Española) a while back where there was a study conducted regarding the Spanish spoken in DR, PR, Cuba and Venezuela and it concluded with all of these forms of Spanish originated from Andalusian and/or Canary Island Spanish but most Andalusian. Even Andalusian Spaniards that live in the Caribbean have said that Cubans, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans are the 'Andalusians of America'. You keep saying that you don't have a Pan-African agenda but it seems that every time anyone here makes a statement where our European or Taino heritage is highlighted there is always some Pan-African or Afro-Nazi that comes and tries to Africanize it. Why can't you accept that there are in fact many things in Dominican culture that are NOT of African origin? Why the insistence on shoving African culture down our throats? No one here denies our very obvious African cultural and racial components but that doesn't mean we have to wear it on our sleeve 24/7. Whether you like it or not, Dominican culture is an Iberoamerican culture with African and Taino influences and NOT the other way around. Get over it already.