Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
#81 - Posted 10 November 2011, 12:58 AM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Micaela previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

LOL, no mamajuana would have been great. However these i have collected very randomly, because my grandmother says them when she feels them appropiate. There are words in spanish that don't describe the exact state, so perhaps these African words, as most of them are clearly Bantu, would maybe have more specific descriptions. I agree that most of these words are not country wide, or even region or even city wide. I acknowledge that some parts of my family do have some linguistic peculiarities that are perhaps from maroon heritage. I have mentioned alot of these words and most Dominicans don't know about it, but some i have heard across regions. I met a friend from Villa Altagracia which is bordering San Cristobal province and Bonao, and she had heard of the word Lembota, and it means the same exact thing there. Also in the smaller towns of the duarte province i have heard people use some of these words, the older people. For example one of myr cousins grandmothers in pimentel is named Monga, and its not because she's a "mongolica" as dominican-americans use it, LOL. But because she has as slight limp to her walk.

I got a new word today my grandmother telling me to throw out somethigns said "Vete a bajai eso Korotoh'" Accent on the last O. For some time as a kid i thought some of my grandmas speech was just made up, i grew up thinking it was just stuff she'd make up. But then i did some research, turns out most of these words are clearly African as they show up as town names, some of them are also in context with some bantu languages.

Again i am not saying all Cibaenyos speak liek this, but perhaps in pred. black parts of the cibao, or in Maroon villages in the Cibao, or across the island there where Dominicans using these terms. Perhaps my grandmothers words are a renmant of one time when there was some sort of creole in the mountains.

Same happens with some Families that are very Taino genetically and culturally as in the case of Baracutey whose family uses some Taino words that are not in common use by the average Dominican.

But then u'd hav to ask yourself, wouldn't some of these isolted communities be good representatives of a much older contiuum of culture.

Interesting that one of the posters here mentioned that pred. black town because there was plantatoins there, these cases are very common in some parts and in some parts not. I happen to be from a part where not only was there slavery but heavy maroonage, the River Yuna which divides Cotui and Duarte province had Maroons, La Vega area had maroons and Samana/Nagua had Maroons.

If your family is part of a community, how come only they have those linguistic peculiarities? Are they the only ones with a maroon or creole heritage where they come from? It would made sense if the whole community use the words, especially if it were isolated. Usually when some words are used by a limited number of people, they tend to disappear, not only words, but whole languages, not keep going through generations, or if used, probably nobody remember the meaning.

I would like to know some of those Taino words Baracuey family use and the meaning, of course, in case they are as alien to me as the ones your grandma uses.



When i said community, i meant in the larger sense of barrio. BEcause the barrio i grew up was mixed and had alot of emigrants from Lebanon, The Inner Cibao and other parts of the eastern cibao. But now where my grandmothers family is originally from. Las Guazuma, San Francisco de Macoris, they use these words very often, and there are still traditoinal healers, there is one curandero who still heals Asthma in la guazuma using un huevo criollo. I have heard my cousins who are directly related to my grandmothers family (grandmothers first cousins) speak with the same words. So in a sense it does exist in that community, but the community has been so disperesed that in reality only the older gerenation still living there has any idea. Some of my family moved from La Guazuma, to el Barrio Santa Ana in s.f.m. When i go back im going to try to interview some of the older cousins i have in La Guauzma, and see what they say about some of the words.

As far as the Taino words baracutey's family has ill ask him. Or maybe he'll drop into this thread one day.

I also have my other grandmother which has alot of Taino heritage in the form of culture, and even phenotypically. She tells me of her own mother who used to tell stories about being taken under the water by natives. My great grandmother said SOME of her family where from the real indegenous in the D.R, "de familia india" vs "color indio". There is a difference. This part of my family is originally from La Linea, around Santiago Rodriguez. She also menteions of another part of her family through her father which also messed with Taino spirituality. And overall she still makes Higueros, although most Domincians made them unil recently. She used to also hunt/trap curios (hutias) until a very recent time. and has a few other interesting indegenous peculiarities.
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#82 - Posted 10 November 2011, 1:03 AM
Location: Dominican Republic
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

"When there is no call and response in Merengue, and its sung in spanish form",

Glad you recognized that fact. Although the call and response is no doubt of African origen many of the accordian rifts have Spanish melodies to a degree. Good points nontheless.


Yes the melodies in the accordion have spanish/european styles to it. The dancing also has an interesting mix. Merengue dancing has very obvous European/Spanish ballroom qualities because the couples touch, and they go side to side at times. But the knee dropping hip movement is definetly African. For the most part African music is danced without touching. Despite all the hyper-sexuality that people envision of African music. It is true that there is strong hip gyrations and pelvic thrust but this all happens without the couples touching. Most Palo in D.R is without touching, while merengue obviously reqires touch. However there are forms of Palo that are danced JUST like merengue, specficailly one from la Linea called "Jerapega" and no one relaly knows which one cam first, the jerapega or the merengue danceform. In the east, in places like Hato Mayor they also dance Palo as if it was merengue.

I think Vallenato in colombia is similar to mernegue, in its blend of cultures and musical instruments.
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#83 - Posted 10 November 2011, 2:26 AM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

"When there is no call and response in Merengue, and its sung in spanish form",

Glad you recognized that fact. Although the call and response is no doubt of African origen many of the accordian rifts have Spanish melodies to a degree. Good points nontheless.


Yes the melodies in the accordion have spanish/european styles to it. The dancing also has an interesting mix. Merengue dancing has very obvous European/Spanish ballroom qualities because the couples touch, and they go side to side at times. But the knee dropping hip movement is definetly African. For the most part African music is danced without touching. Despite all the hyper-sexuality that people envision of African music. It is true that there is strong hip gyrations and pelvic thrust but this all happens without the couples touching. Most Palo in D.R is without touching, while merengue obviously reqires touch. However there are forms of Palo that are danced JUST like merengue, specficailly one from la Linea called "Jerapega" and no one relaly knows which one cam first, the jerapega or the merengue danceform. In the east, in places like Hato Mayor they also dance Palo as if it was merengue.

I think Vallenato in colombia is similar to mernegue, in its blend of cultures and musical instruments.

I find Vallenato very simular to Merengue Tipico.
Conocer al cojo sentao!


Las Aguilas son Las Aguilas!!!!!!!!
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#84 - Posted 10 November 2011, 8:38 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Lemba previously said:

When i said community, i meant in the larger sense of barrio. BEcause the barrio i grew up was mixed and had alot of emigrants from Lebanon, The Inner Cibao and other parts of the eastern cibao. But now where my grandmothers family is originally from. Las Guazuma, San Francisco de Macoris, they use these words very often, and there are still traditoinal healers, there is one curandero who still heals Asthma in la guazuma using un huevo criollo. I have heard my cousins who are directly related to my grandmothers family (grandmothers first cousins) speak with the same words. So in a sense it does exist in that community, but the community has been so disperesed that in reality only the older gerenation still living there has any idea. Some of my family moved from La Guazuma, to el Barrio Santa Ana in s.f.m. When i go back im going to try to interview some of the older cousins i have in La Guauzma, and see what they say about some of the words.

As far as the Taino words baracutey's family has ill ask him. Or maybe he'll drop into this thread one day.

I also have my other grandmother which has alot of Taino heritage in the form of culture, and even phenotypically. She tells me of her own mother who used to tell stories about being taken under the water by natives. My great grandmother said SOME of her family where from the real indegenous in the D.R, "de familia india" vs "color indio". There is a difference. This part of my family is originally from La Linea, around Santiago Rodriguez. She also menteions of another part of her family through her father which also messed with Taino spirituality. And overall she still makes Higueros, although most Domincians made them unil recently. She used to also hunt/trap curios (hutias) until a very recent time. and has a few other interesting indegenous peculiarities.

As I told you I have never heard those words your people use and have not idea what they mean, but my grandmother also told us stories about Indians living under the river, with access thresholds by big stones; in the country they used higueros, whole to carry water and other things, cut in half to hold and clean rice or beans, and in quarters as cooking spoons. I never heard anything I can relate to Taino spirituality but certainly many people in the country went to curanderos when they were sick (I think because lack of doctors and hospitals too far) and ensalmos to cure asthma are well known, though not with an egg, but cutting hair from the head crown and burying it in a tree, where the patient is unlike to ever walk by.
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#85 - Posted 10 November 2011, 10:12 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

"When there is no call and response in Merengue, and its sung in spanish form",

Glad you recognized that fact. Although the call and response is no doubt of African origen many of the accordian rifts have Spanish melodies to a degree. Good points nontheless.


Yes the melodies in the accordion have spanish/european styles to it. The dancing also has an interesting mix. Merengue dancing has very obvous European/Spanish ballroom qualities because the couples touch, and they go side to side at times. But the knee dropping hip movement is definetly African. For the most part African music is danced without touching. Despite all the hyper-sexuality that people envision of African music. It is true that there is strong hip gyrations and pelvic thrust but this all happens without the couples touching. Most Palo in D.R is without touching, while merengue obviously reqires touch. However there are forms of Palo that are danced JUST like merengue, specficailly one from la Linea called "Jerapega" and no one relaly knows which one cam first, the jerapega or the merengue danceform. In the east, in places like Hato Mayor they also dance Palo as if it was merengue.

I think Vallenato in colombia is similar to mernegue, in its blend of cultures and musical instruments.

I find Vallenato very simular to Merengue Tipico.

Tipico bebiendo whiskey?
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#86 - Posted 10 November 2011, 11:49 PM
Location: United States
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

"When there is no call and response in Merengue, and its sung in spanish form",

Glad you recognized that fact. Although the call and response is no doubt of African origen many of the accordian rifts have Spanish melodies to a degree. Good points nontheless.


Yes the melodies in the accordion have spanish/european styles to it. The dancing also has an interesting mix. Merengue dancing has very obvous European/Spanish ballroom qualities because the couples touch, and they go side to side at times. But the knee dropping hip movement is definetly African. For the most part African music is danced without touching. Despite all the hyper-sexuality that people envision of African music. It is true that there is strong hip gyrations and pelvic thrust but this all happens without the couples touching. Most Palo in D.R is without touching, while merengue obviously reqires touch. However there are forms of Palo that are danced JUST like merengue, specficailly one from la Linea called "Jerapega" and no one relaly knows which one cam first, the jerapega or the merengue danceform. In the east, in places like Hato Mayor they also dance Palo as if it was merengue.

I think Vallenato in colombia is similar to mernegue, in its blend of cultures and musical instruments.

I find Vallenato very simular to Merengue Tipico.

Tipico bebiendo whiskey?


That is very true. I agree on that most definitely. In fact there are many vallenato songs that have been converted to merengue were instantly successful.
Edited on 11/10/2011 11:49 PM by guillermone.
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#87 - Posted 11 November 2011, 4:12 AM
Location: United States, OMNIPRESENT. El Cantinero de Jarabacoa. "Aguilucho desde Chiquitito"
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
xwill7 previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

Quote:
Lemba previously said:

Quote:
mirabal4ever previously said:

"When there is no call and response in Merengue, and its sung in spanish form",

Glad you recognized that fact. Although the call and response is no doubt of African origen many of the accordian rifts have Spanish melodies to a degree. Good points nontheless.


Yes the melodies in the accordion have spanish/european styles to it. The dancing also has an interesting mix. Merengue dancing has very obvous European/Spanish ballroom qualities because the couples touch, and they go side to side at times. But the knee dropping hip movement is definetly African. For the most part African music is danced without touching. Despite all the hyper-sexuality that people envision of African music. It is true that there is strong hip gyrations and pelvic thrust but this all happens without the couples touching. Most Palo in D.R is without touching, while merengue obviously reqires touch. However there are forms of Palo that are danced JUST like merengue, specficailly one from la Linea called "Jerapega" and no one relaly knows which one cam first, the jerapega or the merengue danceform. In the east, in places like Hato Mayor they also dance Palo as if it was merengue.

I think Vallenato in colombia is similar to mernegue, in its blend of cultures and musical instruments.

I find Vallenato very simular to Merengue Tipico.

Tipico bebiendo whiskey?

Y Mira bebo Romo..La Bebida Dominicano.
Conocer al cojo sentao!


Las Aguilas son Las Aguilas!!!!!!!!
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#88 - Posted 18 November 2011, 1:16 PM
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Lemba has strong arguments...Anyway the first inhabitants of Spain did not speak Spanish , they were Celts, Basques ( who has the right to claim that they are the true Spaniards) and Iberians ( who came from North Africa)

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese languages are offspring of Latin Roman, and even others countries like Romania.

Spain has been colonized by many nations, Phoenicians, Libyans (under the Libyans Pharaohs), Carthaginians, Romans, Visigoths, and Moors (700 yrs). Not counting the slaves (Africans, Tainos, Greeks, Tartars, Sardinians, Slavic people etc) present in Spain during the middle age. Spanish was already a mixed nation when they arrived in the West Indies in 1492.

Actually the Spanish phenotype is highly close to North Africans: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libyans, and Egyptians.

You put a Spanish, an Italian, a Portuguese, an English, a French together : the 3 first are really easy to identify for those who spent their life in Europe.

Canarios also are highly mixed: Spanish, Portuguese, Guanches (related to North Africans), slaves (mainly Africans, and some native Indians)
Tatico Henriquez es el mejor !!!!
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#89 - Posted 18 November 2011, 1:54 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Nehesy previously said:

Lemba has strong arguments...Anyway the first inhabitants of Spain did not speak Spanish , they were Celts, Basques ( who has the right to claim that they are the true Spaniards) and Iberians ( who came from North Africa)

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese languages are offspring of Latin Roman, and even others countries like Romania.

Spain has been colonized by many nations, Phoenicians, Libyans (under the Libyans Pharaohs), Carthaginians, Romans, Visigoths, and Moors (700 yrs). Not counting the slaves (Africans, Tainos, Greeks, Tartars, Sardinians, Slavic people etc) present in Spain during the middle age. Spanish was already a mixed nation when they arrived in the West Indies in 1492.

Actually the Spanish phenotype is highly close to North Africans: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libyans, and Egyptians.

You put a Spanish, an Italian, a Portuguese, an English, a French together : the 3 first are really easy to identify for those who spent their life in Europe.

Canarios also are highly mixed: Spanish, Portuguese, Guanches (related to North Africans), slaves (mainly Africans, and some native Indians)



It would be interesting to see a study being done about the Spanish Mtdna, just to see how much the extra European presence (Amerindian, African, etc.) is reflected on the haplogroups of the current population.
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#90 - Posted 19 November 2011, 2:14 PM
Location: Dominican Republic
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RE: The difference between learning Spanish and Dominican
Quote:
Nehesy previously said:

Lemba has strong arguments...Anyway the first inhabitants of Spain did not speak Spanish , they were Celts, Basques ( who has the right to claim that they are the true Spaniards) and Iberians ( who came from North Africa)

French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese languages are offspring of Latin Roman, and even others countries like Romania.

Spain has been colonized by many nations, Phoenicians, Libyans (under the Libyans Pharaohs), Carthaginians, Romans, Visigoths, and Moors (700 yrs). Not counting the slaves (Africans, Tainos, Greeks, Tartars, Sardinians, Slavic people etc) present in Spain during the middle age. Spanish was already a mixed nation when they arrived in the West Indies in 1492.

Actually the Spanish phenotype is highly close to North Africans: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libyans, and Egyptians.

You put a Spanish, an Italian, a Portuguese, an English, a French together : the 3 first are really easy to identify for those who spent their life in Europe.

Canarios also are highly mixed: Spanish, Portuguese, Guanches (related to North Africans), slaves (mainly Africans, and some native Indians)



Very good points, in fact i noticed that the European colonialist are very much into keeping their colonized languages as the same, while not applyign the same rule to themselves.

Example....

You arleady talked about how the Spanish language came to be, but yet the Spanish claim the language as their own, yet in their colonies they are not fast to claim new languages, and in fact claim them as spanish, and for the majorities or minorities who dont speak their form of spanish they are labeled as ignorant, or speaking jiberish, or "bad" spanish. Schools and institutions teach kids from a young age that only castillian spanish is correct. Its interesting that Spanish is considered a language separate from Latin and not a creole? I think i see a double standard, you mix Latin with 1/3rd Arabic and you get a new language "Spanish". You mix that mixed language with 1/3rd Indegenous and African words, and you still get spanish?

In places like Jamaica nad Haiti where officiali creoles are recognized, this is because of a very tiny European population. Had their been more french, or had the African-Haitian revolution not happened in Haiti most Haitians today would just be speaking "French" but in the same manner that Dominicans speak "Spanish". This is an example, not somethign that is CURRENT. But that would have been the case had circumstancse been different. The same case can be applied to Jamaica, with more English presence they would have ended up like Afro-americans, who dont have their own creole but instead are dubbed as speaking "Bad English" or "ghetto" and properly termed "ebonics".

I think as Dominicans we need to respect our language, if we really love our country we need to come to terms that without our culture we are nothing but a clone of someone else. We are unique in our ways, our mix was unique and the way it happened, its products as well. People talk about Dominicano hasta la tambora, but what about also Dominicano Ata la i! We need not to be ashamed of how we speak, and we should try to conserve this way of speech, teach it to our children and find a way to write this so that it can continue to be passed on for generations, it is sad that we are losing our speech because schools think its "bad' spanish. Spanish is bad latin! if you folowed htat logic. Spain was able to respect and develop its own language only because they where abel to free themselves from the Romans. Otherwise by now most Spaniards would be speaking mostly Latin.
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