| #101 - Posted 12 December 2008, 12:35 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 5683 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans "Let's speak the truth why is it that the Spaniards, French and Portuguese in Caribbean and South America mixed with the natives, while the British did not? This isn't meant to offend anyone, but could it be tied into the fact that the Spaniards, French, and Portuguese were Catholic and the British were protestant? If anyone has any thoughts, i'd like to know. " Who said they didn't? It's been proposed that as much as 20% of "white" america has some negro ancestry that in most cases they're not aware of. As a matter of fact many of Thomas Jefferson's descendants through Sally Hemmings have been living as white people, oblivious of their racial origins, for generations and that's just one highly publicized case that we know about. In the past many light-skinned American mullattoes who could pass for white would do just that. Besides, the vast majority African -Americans have some white blood in them as well as Amerindian ancestry. The US of A has seen more then her share of race mixing. Edited on 12/12/2008 12:51 PM by cibaeño75. "If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill |
Post IP: 161.185.150.17* | |
| Advertisement | |
Sponsored Links | |
| #102 - Posted 12 December 2008, 2:30 PM | |
Location: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨ Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 3319 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: "Let's speak the truth why is it that the Spaniards, French and Portuguese in Caribbean and South America mixed with the natives, while the British did not? This isn't meant to offend anyone, but could it be tied into the fact that the Spaniards, French, and Portuguese were Catholic and the British were protestant? If anyone has any thoughts, i'd like to know. " Who said they didn't? It's been proposed that as much as 20% of "white" america has some negro ancestry that in most cases they're not aware of. As a matter of fact many of Thomas Jefferson's descendants through Sally Hemmings have been living as white people, oblivious of their racial origins, for generations and that's just one highly publicized case that we know about. In the past many light-skinned American mullattoes who could pass for white would do just that. Besides, the vast majority African -Americans have some white blood in them as well as Amerindian ancestry. The US of A has seen more then her share of race mixing. It's true. The British mixed their genes with every population through forced rape. However One must consider that The British Did not marry their slaves and local natives. The Spaniards, French and Portuguese mixed with every population through rape, and holy matrimony. Everybody knows The natives were forced to become Christians. cibaeño, I hope you understand my point of you. ![]() Edited on 1/4/2009 2:00 AM by yumnuk3. |
Post IP: 207.38.219.24* | |
| #103 - Posted 12 December 2008, 5:58 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 5613 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Ladronaso and Manhattanite, I'm calling extremely afrocentric people afronazis because they have fallen on the same trap of their white counterparts, that is, the maintainment of the "one drop rule" above all else. This stupid rule, also called hipodescendancy, establish that if a white man and black woman have offspring, this offspring will be labeled on the weaker of both groups, read, the son of white man and a black woman is a black child. The people trying to rescue Taino roots not only are fighting to save that groups' contributions from extinction, but they are also figthing for the right of us mixed people to choose the heritage that suits our spiritual needs, this is specially poignant on the dominican case, where a good part of the population is tri-racial, so I say let's fight these one-droppist scum with everytthing we've got, cuz' we've every right in the world to reclaim our Taino heritage, specially when we've known the truth all along. Thank God that on this very point the dominican psyche hasn't allowed itself to be absorbed by americanization (at least here on the island). Edited on 12/12/2008 6:26 PM by Lautaro. "A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good." Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince |
Post IP: 190.0.81.9* | |
| #104 - Posted 14 December 2008, 4:34 AM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Boycott Dominican Tourism Join date: May 2008 Member #: 731 Posts: 2057 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans These 20% are the ones that are suppose to actually own the island, it belonged to there forefathers. And the Spanish stole it |
Post IP: 71.167.177.4* | |
| #105 - Posted 15 December 2008, 2:22 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 1984 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: Lautaro previously said: Ladronaso and Manhattanite, I'm calling extremely afrocentric people afronazis because they have fallen on the same trap of their white counterparts, that is, the maintainment of the "one drop rule" above all else. This stupid rule, also called hipodescendancy, establish that if a white man and black woman have offspring, this offspring will be labeled on the weaker of both groups, read, the son of white man and a black woman is a black child. The people trying to rescue Taino roots not only are fighting to save that groups' contributions from extinction, but they are also figthing for the right of us mixed people to choose the heritage that suits our spiritual needs, this is specially poignant on the dominican case, where a good part of the population is tri-racial, so I say let's fight these one-droppist scum with everytthing we've got, cuz' we've every right in the world to reclaim our Taino heritage, specially when we've known the truth all along. Thank God that on this very point the dominican psyche hasn't allowed itself to be absorbed by americanization (at least here on the island). It just seems too me that the afrocentric scholar is fighting for the same thing ('the right of ... people to choose the heritage that suits our spiritual needs'). They are also fighting against the perspective of 'be[ing] labeled on the weaker of both groups', which I'm saddened to hear you endorse Laut, and I hope I'm misreading that sentence. Since they are fighting that 'weak' label part of their job is necessarily to point out to groups that Africa is part f their heritage. But calling them scum? Fighting them with everything we've got? A bit out of proportion to reality as they (afrocentric scholars) are not the force behind the exclusion of our Taino heritage, are relatively recent arrivals on the history scene, share the mission of amplifying the heritage menu for people's needs, and as I said before they blazed the trail in the academy. |
Post IP: 206.252.74.4* | |
| #106 - Posted 15 December 2008, 2:30 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 5613 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: Manhattanite previously said: They are also fighting against the perspective of 'be[ing] labeled on the weaker of both groups', which I'm saddened to hear you endorse Laut, and I hope I'm misreading that sentence. Since they are fighting that 'weak' label part of their job is necessarily to point out to groups that Africa is part f their heritage. But calling them scum? Fighting them with everything we've got? A bit out of proportion to reality as they (afrocentric scholars) are not the force behind the exclusion of our Taino heritage, are relatively recent arrivals on the history scene, share the mission of amplifying the heritage menu for people's needs, and as I said before they blazed the trail in the academy. I don't think so, Manny, judging by how comfortable they feel with the establishment lumping all non-white people of african descent in one group (regardless of the fact that many of them possess a significant % of european ancestry, even more so than many Caribbean groups). It's a fact that, If the one drop rule didn't exist, AA's would be an even smaller community than what they already are, cuz' "blacks" of significant european ancestry would do as the majority of their LatAm counterparts (specially on Brazil) do, that is, to reject the black label in favor of one more closer to their european heritage or a in-between identity (cafuzo, pardo, etc.), like it was done also with the three tiered identity system of 19th century Louisiana, something that a good part of them are entitled to, in my humble opinion. That's why I'm saying that they have fallen in the system's trap, cuz' the ODR is the perfect, convenient cover for them to enlarge their numbers. Edited on 12/15/2008 2:44 PM by Lautaro. "A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good." Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince |
Post IP: 200.88.48.3* | |
| #107 - Posted 15 December 2008, 2:42 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 5683 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Speaking of labels for individuals of mixed identity I would describe the overall Dominican population as such based on phenotype: The quadroon is the average phenotype throughout the republic. The south tends to be more mulatto than quadroon, the cibao more octoroon then quadroon with a noticeable indian strain in some. Pockets of unmixed blacks along the border and certain coastal areas, pockets of unmixed whites in the rural heartland and in certain urban areas. That's us in a nutshell. "If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill |
Post IP: 161.185.150.18* | |
| #108 - Posted 15 December 2008, 4:21 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 1984 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Laut we won't see eye-to-eye on this one, but whether they are comfortable or not remember that , just like erasing Taino history, it was NOT afrocentric scholars who set up ODR or who propagate it. I'm still baffled by the not-so-subtle hostility you have for them. Cib I have made the same statement about the approximate phenotype of Dominicans. In the long run I'm glad that whole vocabulary is dying out. |
Post IP: 206.252.74.4* | |
| #109 - Posted 15 December 2008, 4:29 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 5613 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: Manhattanite previously said: Laut we won't see eye-to-eye on this one, but whether they are comfortable or not remember that , just like erasing Taino history, it was NOT afrocentric scholars who set up ODR or who propagate it. I'm still baffled by the not-so-subtle hostility you have for them. Cib I have made the same statement about the approximate phenotype of Dominicans. In the long run I'm glad that whole vocabulary is dying out. My hostility for them comes from the fact that I can't help but perceive an anti-dominican bias in them. In every single disaster that has ever happened on DR/Haiti relations, they have always pointed their fingers at us saying things like "dominicans live in denial", "the dominican case is one of mistaken identity" (they always cite Ernesto Sagas' work when they want to look down at us), etc., clearly showing that they will always frown at us refusing to pay homage to the Jim Crow, one-droppist mentality. So it's clear that they will always be personas non-gratas in my book because of their intolerance to views that runs counter with their way of seeing reality. We'll just have to agree to disagree. If you want more info about their intolerance, feel free to contact USADR next time he logs on this site. I assure you, he has plenty of tales to tell you about them, cuz' he has to deal with them on a regular basis on his line of work (anthropology/ethnology). Edited on 12/15/2008 4:56 PM by Lautaro. "A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good." Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince |
Post IP: 200.88.48.3* | |
| #110 - Posted 15 December 2008, 7:30 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 5613 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: Dominicanation previously said: Quote: Lautaro previously said: Quote: Manhattanite previously said: Laut we won't see eye-to-eye on this one, but whether they are comfortable or not remember that , just like erasing Taino history, it was NOT afrocentric scholars who set up ODR or who propagate it. I'm still baffled by the not-so-subtle hostility you have for them. Cib I have made the same statement about the approximate phenotype of Dominicans. In the long run I'm glad that whole vocabulary is dying out. My hostility for them comes from the fact that I can't help but perceive an anti-dominican bias in them. In every single disaster that has ever happened on DR/Haiti relations, they have always pointed their fingers at us saying things like "dominicans live in denial", "the dominican case is one of mistaken identity" (they always cite Ernesto Sagas' work when they want to look down at us), etc., clearly showing that they will always frown at us refusing to pay homage to the Jim Crow, one-droppist mentality. So it's clear that they will always be personas non-gratas in my book because of their intolerance to views that runs counter with their way of seeing reality. We'll just have to agree to disagree. If you want more info about their intolerance, feel free to contact USADR next time he logs on this site. I assure you, he has plenty of tales to tell you about them, cuz' he has to deal with them on a regular basis on his line of work (anthropology/ethnology). Taino my a$$. Sad to say but the Taino race has been extinct for quite some time now "GET OVER IT" The so called 73% Mulattoes population of DR are nothing more than Haitians mixed with whatever the hell else. And I do agree with the one drop rule one drop of black blood should label you as a blacky and you Domincans are in FACT in denial.... Last time I checked Laut was trying to pass himself as a white. LOL. One could only imagine the look on Laut's face when he found out that he wasn't WHITE. Oh my. Funny thing is every time Lau goes back to DR he still pretends that he is white matter of fact he seldom encourage others to call him BLANCO. Ahh! stupid confused negro. The thing, imbecile, is that this man (Jorge Estevez) has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that we dominican people still have Taino blood within us, so you and your stupid afrocentric rabble would do well to shut your big mouths up. He and some US geneticists have enough material proof to send your stupid "extinction" myths and fables into the oblivion from which they shouldn't have come out in the first place. http://www.centrelink.org/JorgeEstevez.pdf Only a moron like you would try to make dominicans pass as offshoots of haitians, since last I saw, dominicans have more time on the island than the haitians would ever have. And before you come with your usual stupidity of saying "Those were spaniards that were before us", let me tell you one little tidbit: Spaniards were never the majority on the Santo Domingo colony, since this last one was conformed by mixed people and the few slaves that were left after the spanish sugar industry collapsed. You can yell all that you want, but you'll never be able to change those facts. Sayonara, moron, I'm done with your idiocies. Edited on 12/15/2008 7:50 PM by Lautaro. "A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good." Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince |
Post IP: 190.0.81.9* | |
