There's no need to apologize. The subject matter is worth discussing with anyone who's reasonable.






Taino Villages

Enriquillo's rebellion



The Tainos Part 1




The Tainos Part 2



The Tainos Part 3

Manhattanite,
Perhaps you've come across some rather unusually open minded and respectful Afrocentric scholars, but unfortunately these seem to makeup the minority.
I, along with many Dominicans here in the USA have come across alot of militant Afrocentric extemist.

I have come across many threads/discussions about Dominicans, the overwhelming majority (actually all of them) started by African Americans with racialist blackcentric views. They represent the opposite and equally lopsided view as the Eurocentrics of the past, except with additionaly pent up anger.

Dominicans' Taino heritage is ridiculed as some type of 'escape hatch' in order to downplay our Afrodecendancy. The two main arguments from them are that we either have none or a tiny negligible amount (no greater than what African Americans have).
The fact that Dominicans use 'indio' as a color/phenotype descriptor further adds to their attacks, they interpret this as meaning we're calling ourselves 'native amerindians. The authors Lautaro mentioned fall into this category also.
To sum it all up, they seek to impose a USA black/white manicheastic view on 'race' (OneDroppism) on DR. The European component in our heritage is attacked as coming fromthe 'oppresor/rapist', the Taino component is a fantasy, all that matters is the black component. Afronazi sums them all up.

Exactly. It seems like there are various complexes (inferiority? post colonial victim mentality? ) at play, I just read a story in Ebony magazine where a reporter states the majority of "Cubans are black, not olive skinned with black hair". There is nothing wrong with being either one, but one cannot help noticing the bias from reading the article.

I have to disagree with you on this Manhattanite, the ODR was a European creaton imposed upon the Afrodescendant minority in order to keep the whites 'pure'. The ODR is no longer enforced but it has become culturally ingrained into both populations. African Americans who want to self-identify/represent any mixed heritage are very much a tiny minority (although it's getting more common). Don't you recall the Tiger Woods incident?
This same type of mentality is part of what drives Afrocentric idealogues into ridiculing any culture/society that does not neatly divide their population between black and white. The very word mulatto is seen as an insult by them.
The funny thing is, the have no idea how cultural this view is, Halle Berry, Barack Obama would not be seen as 'black' in Nigeria. I completely understand Lautaros hostility, Afrocentric scholars are just as bad as the Eurocentric ones.

MULE-atto does likely have an insulting etymology. I don't find it insulting per se, but as in the quote of mine above I would not shed tears for the entire set of descriptions. I'd also comment that it hardly matters what people would call Obama and Berry in Nigeria. The relevant comparisons are US, Europe, and Central/South America. In two of these places they would generally be seen as black. In the third it would depend on the size/location of their house.

Like you said maybe I'm lucky to not meet these 'AfroNazi' types. Despite my presence on this board for this long, I usually avoid nests of racialism and zealotry.

You say two of these places, so, are sure that Europe as a whole submit to the one drop rule? Cuz' if I'm not mistaken, even the racial definitions of the Nazis are broader than the ones used by the US, and that's saying something. Example, by their racial deifinitions, not all the "bastards of the Rhineland" (that is, the children of german women with the french african legionnaires) would be labeled as "not aryan", read, non-white. On the US, on the contrary, they would have been automatically labeled as black, so that should tell you something about european flexibility in relation to the US.

Laut I'm sure in some SS manual there may have been 'broader' definitions, but in living practice do you think it would have changed whether H. Berry went into the ovens or not? This is a truly disturbing comparison for you to bring up seeing as Germans were burning groups that by most definitions are fellow Caucasians. These days maybe they would guess Barack Hussein was a Turk or Arab instead of Black, is that more sophisticated? In the final analysis yes I think the VAST majority of the volk in the Austrian and Prussian hinterlands would label these people 'ein Schwarzer'.

Ok, my mistake. Can you say with a straight face that Spain and Portugal, the same ones which allowed "mestizaje" on their colonies (and have no problems with it on their homelands), follow the one-drop rule to the letter as the gringos of any colour, notwithstanding the elimination of the anti-miscegenation laws, still do? If you think so, then please show me the proofs, cuz' from what I have seen over there, their levels of miscegenation are way beyond the ones of the US by a wide margin, even when the south saharan africans are included on the analysis. Heck, even the stiff, upper-lipped brits can be seen as milder in comparison.

No Laut I can't back that up about the Iberians however I've never made that assertion, on this thread or elsewhere. I do agree totally that they had more mixing than the Anglo world, and a more nuanced system of racial supremacy. I disagree they have' no problem' with it in their homelands; after all much of Spain's history can be seen through the lens of constant grappling with identity (religious, racial, ideological, etc). I also disagree the Brits are any milder than US as Brits are so full of themselves they have not even fully mixed with the Celts they took their island from, much less their subjects worldwide. Meanwhile US Anglos did absorb some indigenous and African, even if in the system they set up one had to totally bury that heritage.

As I said before I admit maybe I just don't visit the same haunts as you guys who have dealt with strident, absolutist Afrocentrics.